When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, including heaven and earth, actually all things are changed out for something better.

[HappyOma]

I can tell you really think you are on to something with that "when were their eyes opened" deal you keep pushing.

You are mentally unpacking the bible.

....unaware that with the Lord "a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day"

And there it is--the 2 Peter 3 "end-all-arguments-pertaining-time" ploy futurists love to use to attempt to end an argument. And every time they fail because the verse does NOT mean what they say it means.

I don't "think" that I am "on to something," rebuilder. THAT is not my attitude. I seek truth. I am not seeking to win an argument to the point that I will not see what is right in front of me.

rebuilder, it is plain that the "in the day" has the same time element for both the dying and the seeing.

You refuse to explain how the same expression can produce different timings for two very connected events.

And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater.

"In the day" that Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they died. BOTH were simultaneous and immediate or BOTH were an ongoing process. Because their eyes were not progressively opened to see good and evil but were opened immediately, SO WAS THE DYING. This is so simple, a child could understand.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

When Jesus descended into paradise into the lower parts of the Earth, which is adjacent to Hades , He preached to those captives.

just wondering what's your perceived time frame to the events you listed ?

 

[rwb]

This partially true.
When Jesus descended into paradise into the lower parts of the Earth, which is adjacent to Hades , He preached to those captives.
The ones that he took to heaven had agreed with the gospel message.
....And they were seen, resurrected bodily ,in the streets of Jerusalem.
Jesus, along with those saints from the Old Testament, are in fact, the first fruits of the first resurrection, and are now in heaven .

Where do we read these Old Covenant faithful saints who were in the graves were BODILY resurrected, and went into the streets of JERUSALEM?

The text says simply that graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints came out of the graves and went into the HOLY CITY,

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Body is often used in a figurative sense as we find in the following verses. Paul shows us that when we are in Christ, we, the Church as a whole, have become a spiritual body through Christ's Spirit in us. This is why, when we physically die in Christ, our natural body of flesh returns to dust of the earth and as the spiritual body of Christ our spirit returns to God who gave it a living soul.

Romans 12:5 (KJV) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 3:6 (KJV) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

These Old Covenant faithful saints could not ascend to heaven a spiritual body of Christ before the advent of the cross and resurrection of Christ that opened the doors of heaven that they and now all who are of the body of Christ may enter there. The text does not say those coming out of the graves went into Jerusalem of this earth. Jerusalem of this earth ceased to be the holy city of God when Christ was crucified. The holy city they went into and appeared to many is not of this earth. It is the Holy City of Heaven, where they were seen by the multitude of the heavenly host (appeared to many). This is where the spiritual body of Christ is and has been since the first advent of Christ. Because the spirit in us possesses eternal life and cannot die, the spirit of man, through the Holy Spirit of Christ in them goes to the heavenly realm of spirit beings, spirits of justified man made perfect. For we are no longer the church on this earth after death, we are the Church of the firstborn written in heaven. Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem dwelling with an innumerable company of angels.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

When the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, the last one to be saved has entered in through Christ's Spirit, the hour has come and the last/seventh trumpet will sound that there shall be no longer delay, time for being saved shall be no longer, we shall see the appearance of Christ coming again in the clouds, with His angelic hosts. This age shall be finished, and the eternal age begins where the complete body of Christ shall dwell with Christ forever on the new earth.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I agree, and they ascended with Christ when He ascends, they were all gathered in the cloud at His ascension.
They were already in Abrahams's bosum and believed in Christ, just as Abraham did.
But no one in fiery torments was able to cross over to the good side, they remained separated.

All who were in the grave, either hell's torments or Sheol, Paradise, whereever they were in death, heard Christ preach.

No one can ascend into heaven without Christ, as Christ is the only way to the Father who is in heaven.

Exactly.
There may be A thread here on the board that talks about Jesus descending to paradise ,and taking those ot saints captive, and emptying paradise into heaven as the first resurrection.


If not, their needs to be a thread.
Because there are tons of people on this board that have no idea of that doctrine.

 

[rebuilder 454]

just wondering what's your perceived time frame to the events you listed ?

As far as paradise emptied?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do we read these Old Covenant faithful saints who were in the graves were BODILY resurrected, and went into the streets of JERUSALEM?

The text says simply that graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints came out of the graves and went into the HOLY CITY,

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Body is often used in a figurative sense as we find in the following verses. Paul shows us that when we are in Christ, we, the Church as a whole, have become a spiritual body through Christ's Spirit in us. This is why, when we physically die in Christ, our natural body of flesh returns to dust of the earth and as the spiritual body of Christ our spirit returns to God who gave it a living soul.

Romans 12:5 (KJV) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 3:6 (KJV) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

These Old Covenant faithful saints could not ascend to heaven a spiritual body of Christ before the advent of the cross and resurrection of Christ that opened the doors of heaven that they and now all who are of the body of Christ may enter there. The text does not say those coming out of the graves went into Jerusalem of this earth. Jerusalem of this earth ceased to be the holy city of God when Christ was crucified. The holy city they went into and appeared to many is not of this earth. It is the Holy City of Heaven, where they were seen by the multitude of the heavenly host (appeared to many). This is where the spiritual body of Christ is and has been since the first advent of Christ. Because the spirit in us possesses eternal life and cannot die, the spirit of man, through the Holy Spirit of Christ in them goes to the heavenly realm of spirit beings, spirits of justified man made perfect. For we are no longer the church on this earth after death, we are the Church of the firstborn written in heaven. Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem dwelling with an innumerable company of angels.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

When the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, the last one to be saved has entered in through Christ's Spirit, the hour has come and the last/seventh trumpet will sound that there shall be no longer delay, time for being saved shall be no longer, we shall see the appearance of Christ coming again in the clouds, with His angelic hosts. This age shall be finished, and the eternal age begins where the complete body of Christ shall dwell with Christ forever on the new earth.

QUOTE
"Where do we read these Old Covenant faithful saints who were in the graves were BODILY resurrected, and went into the streets of JERUSALEM?

The text says simply that graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints came out of the graves and went into the HOLY CITY"

What more do you need it to say?

 

[rebuilder 454]

And there it is--the 2 Peter 3 "end-all-arguments-pertaining-time" ploy futurists love to use to attempt to end an argument. And every time they fail because the verse does NOT mean what they say it means.

I don't "think" that I am "on to something," rebuilder. THAT is not my attitude. I seek truth. I am not seeking to win an argument to the point that I will not see what is right in front of me.

rebuilder, it is plain that the "in the day" has the same time element for both the dying and the seeing.

You refuse to explain how the same expression can produce different timings for two very connected events.

And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater.

"In the day" that Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they died. BOTH were simultaneous and immediate or BOTH were an ongoing process. Because their eyes were not progressively opened to see good and evil but were opened immediately, SO WAS THE DYING. This is so simple, a child could understand.

That eyes open deal is a huge yawn.
We all can see it.
Yawn

 

[rwb]

the Bible is clear through Jesus' own words that He was to return to those disciples right there with Him. He told them so.

This is true! However, you greatly err trying to apply the words Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives to these first century saints alone! The discourse was spoken to them, and they were given a mandate to tell people from every nation of the earth the Gospel as well as all they had witnessed and heard of Christ.

Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And there it is--the 2 Peter 3 "end-all-arguments-pertaining-time" ploy futurists love to use to attempt to end an argument. And every time they fail because the verse does NOT mean what they say it means.

I don't "think" that I am "on to something," rebuilder. THAT is not my attitude. I seek truth. I am not seeking to win an argument to the point that I will not see what is right in front of me.

rebuilder, it is plain that the "in the day" has the same time element for both the dying and the seeing.

You refuse to explain how the same expression can produce different timings for two very connected events.

And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater.

"In the day" that Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they died. BOTH were simultaneous and immediate or BOTH were an ongoing process. Because their eyes were not progressively opened to see good and evil but were opened immediately, SO WAS THE DYING. This is so simple, a child could understand.

Here it is:
2 peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

....and here we are 2000 years later....uh 2 days later.

You have no point.
None at all.

 

[rwb]

QUOTE
"Where do we read these Old Covenant faithful saints who were in the graves were BODILY resurrected, and went into the streets of JERUSALEM?

The text says simply that graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints came out of the graves and went into the HOLY CITY"

What more do you need it to say?

I've already said what needed to be explained in post #163

 

[rebuilder 454]

And there it is--the 2 Peter 3 "end-all-arguments-pertaining-time" ploy futurists love to use to attempt to end an argument. And every time they fail because the verse does NOT mean what they say it means.

I don't "think" that I am "on to something," rebuilder. THAT is not my attitude. I seek truth. I am not seeking to win an argument to the point that I will not see what is right in front of me.

rebuilder, it is plain that the "in the day" has the same time element for both the dying and the seeing.

You refuse to explain how the same expression can produce different timings for two very connected events.

And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater.

"In the day" that Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they died. BOTH were simultaneous and immediate or BOTH were an ongoing process. Because their eyes were not progressively opened to see good and evil but were opened immediately, SO WAS THE DYING. This is so simple, a child could understand.

QUOTE
"And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater."

Lol
That verse that you cast down TOTALLY destroys your entire deal.

Wink wink...just pretend the Holy Spirit was confused.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do we read these Old Covenant faithful saints who were in the graves were BODILY resurrected, and went into the streets of JERUSALEM?

The text says simply that graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints came out of the graves and went into the HOLY CITY,

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Body is often used in a figurative sense as we find in the following verses. Paul shows us that when we are in Christ, we, the Church as a whole, have become a spiritual body through Christ's Spirit in us. This is why, when we physically die in Christ, our natural body of flesh returns to dust of the earth and as the spiritual body of Christ our spirit returns to God who gave it a living soul.

Romans 12:5 (KJV) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Ephesians 3:6 (KJV) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

These Old Covenant faithful saints could not ascend to heaven a spiritual body of Christ before the advent of the cross and resurrection of Christ that opened the doors of heaven that they and now all who are of the body of Christ may enter there. The text does not say those coming out of the graves went into Jerusalem of this earth. Jerusalem of this earth ceased to be the holy city of God when Christ was crucified. The holy city they went into and appeared to many is not of this earth. It is the Holy City of Heaven, where they were seen by the multitude of the heavenly host (appeared to many). This is where the spiritual body of Christ is and has been since the first advent of Christ. Because the spirit in us possesses eternal life and cannot die, the spirit of man, through the Holy Spirit of Christ in them goes to the heavenly realm of spirit beings, spirits of justified man made perfect. For we are no longer the church on this earth after death, we are the Church of the firstborn written in heaven. Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem dwelling with an innumerable company of angels.

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

When the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, the last one to be saved has entered in through Christ's Spirit, the hour has come and the last/seventh trumpet will sound that there shall be no longer delay, time for being saved shall be no longer, we shall see the appearance of Christ coming again in the clouds, with His angelic hosts. This age shall be finished, and the eternal age begins where the complete body of Christ shall dwell with Christ forever on the new earth.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Have you actually read that passage???
It SAYS THEY WERE RECOGNIZED by people in Jerusalem.

Re read it.

 

[rwb]

Have you actually read that passage???
It SAYS THEY WERE RECOGNIZED by people in Jerusalem.

Re read it.

NO IT DOES NOT! This is what you must read into the verse. Prove, if you can, what you allege through the Scriptures!

 

[Scott Downey]

Exactly.
There may be A thread here on the board that talks about Jesus descending to paradise ,and taking those ot saints captive, and emptying paradise into heaven as the first resurrection.


If not, their needs to be a thread.
Because there are tons of people on this board that have no idea of that doctrine.

I have a thread of that on here, and some did not agree, and some said amen.
Feel free to start another one, as it is a good important doctrine.

 

[HappyOma]

Too rich.
I don't need your guidance.
I 100% recognize any and all verses


Now where in history Is there any antichrist recorded that actually required a mark to buy and sell? And where are the flying scorpions recorded anywere in history.?
Show me any place where your doctrine lines up with anything in history.

The coming of Jesus is as lightning brightens the sky OF THE WHOLE EARTH.

And no....none of your placing me as blind and not belonging to Jesus has ANYTHING to do with truth.
You are so desperate.

First of all, let's AGAIN establish the TIMING of John's vision. He was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place; the time was NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)--in his day! Also, let us acknowledge that the vision is a VISION. What should one expect in a vision? SYMBOLISM. Are you a student of the OT prophetic, apocalyptic writings and the language that is employed in them?

Also, WHERE in the Revelation do we find the word "antichrist." The "beast" of the Revelation fits the characteristics of an "antichrist," in that he denied the Jesus was God in the flesh. But nowhere is the beast called "antichrist." NOWHERE. The term occurs ONLY in the epistles of John and even there, he speaks of many antichrists and that they were around in HIS own day. Also, the "mark" and the inability to "buy and sell" falls within the time frame John was given--the things which were to SHORTLY take place. In the days of NERO, people were required to worship him. Anyone who did not do so had a difficult time making a living. This is the BIG reason he hated the Christians. They would not bow to him. He made their lives miserable--even killing many of them. The place of the "mark" is significant. The forehead represents their intellect; the hand reflects their occupation. Nero wanted their loyalty (forehead) and their labor (hand). He was totally worshipped. Christians could not give that to him, so he violently and maliciously persecuted them. THIS was part of the great tribulation Jesus warned His disciples about--tribulation that was to come upon THEM. John considered himself "a fellow partaker in the Tribulatoin" (Rev. 1:9)

Do you REALLY expect to see, in our future, actual "flying scorpions'? Again, this is a book of SYMBOLISM. It is a VISION. One should not and must not expect things to be physical and literal. We must interpret Scripture according to its genre (e.g., historical narrative, poetry, prophecy, SYMBOLISM).

IF you studied the Book of Revelation according to its timing and according to its genre, you would be able to see fulfillments in THAT time (SHORTLY, NEAR). Nero is the BEAST (ch. 13); Nero is the SIXTH of the kings (ch. 17) Herod's Temple is still standing (ch. 11). John considered himself a "fellow partaker in the tribulation" (1:9). John was told to NOT seal up the vision because the time for its fulfillment was NEAR.

Again, if one understands OT apocaplytic, judgment, prophetic, symbolic language as it is used by the OT PROPHETS, he will have no problem with the SYMBOLISM of the "lightning." Please study the passages in the OT where God came in judgment and the prophets portrayed it with language depicting upheavals in the heavens and on the earth. Examples: judgment against Babylon, Isaiah 13; judgment aganst Egypt, Ezek. 32; judgment against Edom, Isaiah 34; judgment against Israel, Amos 5, 8. Were the stars, sun, and moon darkened THEN so that they did not give their light? Did the host of heaven wear away? Was the sky rolled up like a scroll? Did God's literal sword descend from heaven? Did the sun go down at noon? This is FIGURATIVE, judgment language often employed by the prophets in judgment comings . The SAME is true of the Revelation! Students of the NT must understand the OLD.

The burden of proof lies with the one who must discover how all of the things between chapter 1 and chapter 22 took place in the time that was NEAR. What is the meaning of Revelation 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10? IF the Revelation is about things still in our future, why did God use the terms "SHORTLY" and "NEAR" and cause confusion? He used them because He meant them to be taken in their normal, usual, common, typical understanding. Your problem is not with me; it is with HIM.

When did I even hint that you don't "belong to Jesus"? I have never questioned your salvation.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

As far as paradise emptied?

When Jesus descended into paradise into the lower parts of the Earth

 

[HappyOma]

QUOTE
"And please, stop misusing 2 Peter 3:8 That verse has NOTHING to do with this passage, and you know it. I wish I had an inflated twenty dollar bill for every time some futurist ("menatlly unpacking the Bible") ripped that verse out of its context, totally abusing God's Word, and flung it at a Preterist. NO verse should ever be used in a debate that is not fully understood by the debater."

Lol
That verse that you cast down TOTALLY destroys your entire deal.

Wink wink...just pretend the Holy Spirit was confused.

It destroys nothing, rebuilder. You are abusing it by ripping it out of its context--in order to use it as a weapon. That is not how we should approach Scripture. WHAT is the CONTEXT of 2 Peter? Again, it has NOTHING to do with "in the day."

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 27 says it this way, and it happens at His death.
I have wondered about this, and I can't say, but they were resurrected at that time from the dead.
Afterwards nothing further is said, they may have walked back to their graves and died , or they might have lived a while and died again, they may have ascended with Christ into heaven in Acts 1 bodily, but I do think they did ascend with Him in the cloud spiritually to await the final resurrection of all the dead, as obviously they were considered worthy of being resurrected by God. This was a sign that Jesus was who He said He was, the Lord of Life.

Think about it like this, what happened to the people Christ raised from the dead during His ministry on earth?
I assume they came to life in their original bodies, but of course died again to await the final resurrection of all the dead.

I does not read as if these people who were raised received their glorified bodies does it!
Such a body can not die again.

Jesus Dies on the Cross​

45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

47 Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!” 48 Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.

49 The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

55 And many women who followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him, were there looking on from afar, 56 among whom were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and [n]Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.

Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb​

57 Now when evening had come, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus. 58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given to him. 59 When Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and laid it in his new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb, and departed. 61 And Mary Magdalene was there, and the other Mary, sitting [o]opposite the tomb.

 

[rwb]

First of all, let's AGAIN establish the TIMING of John's vision. He was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place; the time was NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)--in his day!

The question is what exactly does the vision show was shortly/near in the days of John? I know as a Preterist you will not agree, but it could not have been the coming of Christ as described from the Mount of Olives!

 

[HappyOma]

Here it is:
2 peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

....and here we are 2000 years later....uh 2 days later.

You have no point.
None at all.

Do you believe in a one-thousand year reign of Christ on the earth? Perhaps it will only last 1 day!

rebuilder, you do not understand the context of 2 Peter 3. Peter is addressing those of HIS own day. THEY are the "beloved." THEY were taught, and justifiably so, that the LORD was returning to THEM in THEIR lifetime. Jesus said it; the inspired writers taught it. The scoffers of Peter's day knew what those believers were looking for and why. They were mocking THEM and not US. Peter is addressing the understandable impatience of those Christians in the midst of the ridicule that came in THAT day. They were being persecuted and killed for their faith. God had promised them relief, rescue, and vindication.

Peter reminded THEM that God is faithful. What He promises, He will do. God is not affected by time. That is why the verses says "with the Lord." It is not with US that a thousand years can be a day or a day can be a thousand years! Notice also that it does not say "a thousand years IS a day" or "a day IS a thousand years." It says "as."

Jesus and the NT writers taught clearly that He was returning to them in their generation. THAT is God's timing. They were impatient because of the scoffers and the tribulation, but Peter reminded them that they could trust in the promises of God. Those promises involved His soon return to THEM!

Let's talk about your statement "and here we are 2000 years later" (not, 'uh 2 days later"). John was told to NOT seal up the vision because the time was NEAR. Remember that Daniel was told TO seal up the vision because it was for a time that was far off. The "far off" was mere hundreds of years. If Daniel was told TO seal up his vision because it was for just hundreds of years later, why would John be told to NOT seal up the vision when it was NEAR? NEAR cannot be considered thousands of years when hundreds of years are considered FAR OFF.
The events of the Revelation were NEAR. That is the clear time frame given to us by GOD. John's vision involved those events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A. D. 70. It is the job of the Bible interpreter to find the fulifllments within THAT time frame.