If Satan is the devil, is God responsible for all evil?

[Hiddenthings]

Sorry, why do you say "IF Satan is the devil?" The bible says he is:

Re 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Re 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Can you identify?

 

[XtraPercept]

Can you identify?

How can you identify Who you do not know? You recognize His voice or you would not seek here. But listen closer, He always speaks in the same voice and a wolf cannot hide its teeth.

 

[quietthinker]

Sorry, why do you say "IF Satan is the devil?" The bible says he is:

Re 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Re 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

I don't major on the 'if'. It is a certainty that the accuser is the adversary who is the Devil and Satan.
It is also a certainty that Jesus revealed this....and exposed him as the Father of evil.

 

[David Lamb]

I don't major on the 'if'. It is a certainty that the accuser is the adversary who is the Devil and Satan.
It is also a certainty that Jesus revealed this....and exposed him as the Father of evil.

Thanks. In that case, apologies for misunderstanding!

 

[quietthinker]

Thanks. In that case, apologies for misunderstanding!

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

God is opposed to Satan but somehow powerless to stop him, which undermines divine sovereignty.

God is not powerless to stop Satan. Satan/the Devil and his angels/demons will be stopped at the appointed time.

The demons are well aware of this appointed time.

"And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" (Mat. 28:8-9)

Similarly, Satan is well aware of this appointed time.

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." (Rev. 12:7-12)

When this yet-future battle (Dan. 12:1) in the heavenly realm takes place, Satan and his angels will be cast down, and they will know that they have but a short time in relation to God's appointed timeframe.

Ultimately, this will be their end:

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

So I ask:
If Satan is the Devil, and God is his master, how do we avoid making God the author of all evil?

The short answer is free will.

 

[Aunty Jane]

From another perspective.....why does evil exist at all? Is God really responsible?

In all of creation there is balance....equal opposites....up, down....in, out.....forward, backward....light, dark....positive, negative...and a host of other opposites that we take for granted every day.....even science knows that “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”. ....so when we think about the abundance of good that God possesses, what is its equal opposite?
Wouldn’t this be the reason why God tried to keep evil away from the first humans by placing “the tree of the “knowledge of good and evil” before them, but with the command not to eat from it.....or they would die? It should have been enough of a deterrent, but lies were told about its value, and the consequences of transgressing God’s command....leading the humans to break God’s command and bringing a knowledge of evil upon the world.

Was it beneficial? And have we contemplated what the world would look like now, if Adam and his wife had just done as they were told?

God’s human children, just like his angelic sons, were free willed, so he could not force them not to know anything, but he could try to dissuade them from obtaining certain knowledge if he knew it would be to their detriment. What has a knowledge of evil done in this world?

The spirit being who became the devil was created as a free willed creature like all the rest. He started his life as a faithful angel, but he chose to abuse his free will out of envy concerning the worship that the lower human creatures would give to the Creator.

According to the prophet Ezekiel, he was a “covering cherub” stationed in the garden as an overseer, which put him in a position to observe all that transpired between God and the humans, as well as their interaction with each other. (Ezekiel 28:13-17) He plotted his course, and when the time was right, he made his move....and the rest, as they say......is history.

God did not create evil as such....it simply exists as a natural opposite to the good that we know is in the Creator.....evil would have stayed locked away, but it was unleashed....and there was no putting that genie back in the bottle.....so God had to deal with it in a way that demonstrated beyond a doubt that his commands must be obeyed on into the future.....a way to show the humans as well the angelic sons of God, the folly of misusing their free will.

 

[Hiddenthings]

How can you identify Who you do not know? You recognize His voice or you would not seek here. But listen closer, He always speaks in the same voice and a wolf cannot hide its teeth.

The question seeks to identify the symbolic meaning of the adversary in Revelation 12. The chapter is clearly rich in symbolism, a woman cannot literally give birth in heaven, and a dragon’s tail cannot realistically sweep a third of the stars down to earth.

If the symbolism is not properly interpreted, then one is left merely reinforcing the misunderstanding being discussed in this thread.

 

[Hiddenthings]

According to the prophet Ezekiel, he was a “covering cherub” stationed in the garden as an overseer, which put him in a position to observe all that transpired between God and the humans, as well as their interaction with each other. (Ezekiel 28:13-17) He plotted his course, and when the time was right, he made his move....and the rest, as they say......is history.

Unlocking Ezekiel 28

This thread is a discussion (@Wick Stick) on Ezekiel 28 focusing in on the symbols and their interpretation. This passage is typically used to prove that Satan is a fallen angel although neither are mentioned in the chapter. Let's begin.

www.christianityboard.com

Join Wick and me as we explore the often-misunderstood chapter of Ezekiel 28.

 

[Hiddenthings]

From another perspective.....why does evil exist at all? Is God really responsible?

In all of creation there is balance....equal opposites....up, down....in, out.....forward, backward....light, dark....positive, negative...and a host of other opposites that we take for granted every day.....even science knows that “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”. ....so when we think about the abundance of good that God possesses, what is its equal opposite?
Wouldn’t this be the reason why God tried to keep evil away from the first humans by placing “the tree of the “knowledge of good and evil” before them, but with the command not to eat from it.....or they would die? It should have been enough of a deterrent, but lies were told about its value, and the consequences of transgressing God’s command....leading the humans to break God’s command and bringing a knowledge of evil upon the world.

Panda and I have opened Genesis 3 to discover a hidden truth devil believers do not want to acknowledge.

Origin stories which don’t exist for people, places and things mentioned in the Bible

I would ask you if God gave the serpent the ability to talk AND knowledge :oops: why would God later put a curse on the serpent ? Great question! I love it when believers think! Wonderful!!! Have you considered the answer within the bounds of Scripture?

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Davy]

In this we can be certain, the Master never has, never does, and never will speak falsehood. He is Absolute Certainty.

Every word He speaks will endure forever. All things false will be annihilated when this work is complete. And it is false to despise the truth, but the truth you have will endure through the flames.

Satan is a transliteration of a Hebrew word for "adversary" and not a proper name in the original Scriptures.

Can the plans of the Father be frustrated? Does He struggle? This would imply limitation upon the Omnipotent and Ubiquitous.

You will hate the Truth until you despise a lie.

What is your actual point then?

1 John 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
KJV

I assume you believe the above verse, especially that part in red.

Darkness, evil, wickedness, etc., cannot exist with GOD. That is why He is NOT the father of those things, but instead the devil is the father of evil.

1 John 3:8 reveals that the devil sinned from the beginning. That means even before Adam and Eve existed. Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus" God uses as a TYPE for the devil, shows that God originally created the devil good, and "perfect in his ways" it says, until iniquity was found in him. Thus evil began with the devil, not with God.

1 John 3:4 Biblically defines what sin is. It is the transgression of God's law. The devil was first to transgress, sinning against the law. But he did it long before he was assigned the role as adversary. He did it back while he was 'perfect in his ways' following God, and then he fell, which was in the previous world.

But since the devil rebelled and brought in sin, death, and wickedness, evil, will God use those things during this present world against the rebellious who are against Him? Yes.

And that is actually how the Isaiah 45:7 verse is meant. God uses evil for this present world after Satan had rebelled, but God is not the actual author of evil. And this is why after the devil is destroyed in the future "lake of fire", in God's new heavens and new earth Eternity there will no longer be any such thing as death or evil.

 

[XtraPercept]

What is your actual point then?

The clarity of my points misses you for your lack of understanding of the meaning of these words. Although many means are available to obtain greater understanding, I would personally recommend a Noah Webster's dictionary from the mid to late 1800's. Much has been lost since then.

 

[Davy]

The clarity of my points misses you for your lack of understanding of the meaning of my words. Although many means are available to obtain greater understanding, I would personally recommend a Noah Webster's dictionary from the mid to late 1800's. Much has been lost since then.

That's a stupid answer.

 

[MatthewG]

Satan just means accuser especially against the will of Yahava.

Satan is done away with today.

God has never done evil but others choose to.

 

[pandaflower]

Isaiah 45
Is God responsible for evil?

 

[Muna]

I would personally recommend a Noah Webster's dictionary from the mid to late 1800's. Much has been lost since then.

I have this huge 7 inch thick Websters as far back as 1904, thats not far back enough huh?

 

[pandaflower]

What is your actual point then?

1 John 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
KJV

I assume you believe the above verse, especially that part in red.

Darkness, evil, wickedness, etc., cannot exist with GOD. That is why He is NOT the father of those things, but instead the devil is the father of evil.

1 John 3:8 reveals that the devil sinned from the beginning. That means even before Adam and Eve existed. Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus" God uses as a TYPE for the devil, shows that God originally created the devil good, and "perfect in his ways" it says, until iniquity was found in him. Thus evil began with the devil, not with God.

1 John 3:4 Biblically defines what sin is. It is the transgression of God's law. The devil was first to transgress, sinning against the law. But he did it long before he was assigned the role as adversary. He did it back while he was 'perfect in his ways' following God, and then he fell, which was in the previous world.

But since the devil rebelled and brought in sin, death, and wickedness, evil, will God use those things during this present world against the rebellious who are against Him? Yes.

And that is actually how the Isaiah 45:7 verse is meant. God uses evil for this present world after Satan had rebelled, but God is not the actual author of evil. And this is why after the devil is destroyed in the future "lake of fire", in God's new heavens and new earth Eternity there will no longer be any such thing as death or evil.

I think for 1 John1:5 to be accurate Isaiah 45:7 would be in error.

 

[XtraPercept]

I have this huge 7 inch thick Websters as far back as 1904, thats not far back enough huh?

It's not the size, it's how you use it.

 

[Muna]

It's not the size, it's how you use it.

Oh good, someone else to put on an ignore