amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Believe me when i say
that if paul walked the earth today
HIMS HAD REBUKED THAT PAULINE THEOLOGY RIGHT OUTTA ALL THE CHURCHES .
This is a fact too .
Is it possible to lose salvation?
- Thread starter LoveYeshua
- Start date
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that if paul walked the earth today
HIMS HAD REBUKED THAT PAULINE THEOLOGY RIGHT OUTTA ALL THE CHURCHES .
This is a fact too .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I beleive the far better question is
can one beleive they have salvation and yet be decieved .
Well , what JESUS does one follow . cause if one follows another jesus
GUESS WHAT They dont have . SALVATION .
so i do highly suggeset the increase of prayer and bible reading for ourselves .
cause many follow a jesus that has created a huge broad sin accepting fake love preaching road .
and that jesus cannot give them salvation . HEAVY DAMANATION is what awaits .
What JESUS do we love and beleive and trust .
CAUSE THAT SURELY DOES MATTER .
BIG TIME .
Those in Jude DID die twice:
Jude 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
So this means the "twice dead" in Jude were born again
Please present scriptural evidence from this. You are just rambling on with some OSAS diatribe without any real scriptural support.
Oh by the way...you ignored my challenge. Please present a single judgement in scripture that is not based on works
Paul about the end of his life -
2Tim 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
2Tim 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.
How does this answer my question?
Lemme repeat :
What if you (after repentance) would not have made any changes in your life and kept doing the sinful things of your past, would you still be saved?
The other member cut and pasted his previous post because YOU never replied to it.
You NEVER reply with scripture but with your own personal opinions about what the NT teaches.
There are NO verses anywhere in the entire bible, OT or NT, that teach that a person could behave as he wants and still be saved.
If you could find one,,,please post it.
Peter taught salvation could be lost.
2 Peter 2:19-22 returning to the world:
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
Paul taught salvation could be lost.
Colossians 1:21-23 We must continue in the faith.
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul taught that even HE could lose his salvation.
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
Jesus taught salvation could be lost.
Luke 8:13 It is possible to fall away after believing for a while.
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
God made it very clear nedsk.
It's just that some prefer their own private teachings to those that are found in the NT.
All Jesus did for over 3 years was to teach to do good works and good behavior.
Jesus, Paul, Peter, James --- they all taught the same.
To some, these teachings are uncomfortable and cause a guilty conscience...
so they make up their own rules.
This is pretty funny Behold.
Actually, very sad.
You don't teach Pauline Theology because you can't post one verse that states we could sin and still go to heaven.
AND
What about Pauline theology?
Do you like HIS theology better than the theology of Jesus?
Are you saying there's a difference?
No difference Behold.
They taught the same and I've shown it with scripture many times.
It's just too uncomfortable for you.
Don't know why.
Guess you don't know about the new persepective on Paul.
Seems the reformers were wrong about Paul teaching only grace.
Read up on it.
The world is moving along and you're stuck in place.
BTW....Paul ALWAYS agreed with Jesus...
it's always MAN that messes things up.
Acts 5.29
29We must obey God rather than man.
The War on Works: How Modern Theology Denies What Jesus Commanded.
From the beginning of Scripture to the final words of Christ in Revelation, the message is unchanging: salvation is by grace through faith, but that faith is only proven genuine by obedience. The concept of “works” in the New Testament, especially in connection to the commandments, has been the center of theological division for centuries. Some say they are unnecessary for salvation—others insist they are the fruit of it. But if we remove all opinion and return solely to the words of God, Jesus, and the faithful apostles excluding Paul, the pattern becomes unmistakable. The Scriptures teach not lawlessness, but righteousness—not empty belief, but faithful action. In the eyes of God and His Son, works are not the opposite of faith, but its expression, its confirmation, and its enduring witness.
In the Old Testament, God defined the pathway to life not as mere profession or ritual but as a living obedience to His voice. “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,” He said, “in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments… then you shall live” (Deuteronomy 30:15-16). Again and again, the Lord tied His covenant promises to the condition of obedience. “If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured” (Isaiah 1:19-20). The prophets confirmed that righteousness was not theoretical—it had to be lived. “If a wicked man turns from all his sins… keeps all My statutes… he shall surely live” (Ezekiel 18:21). Yet the one who turns away from righteousness and chooses sin will die, even if he once lived rightly. God's justice is dynamic and moral, not automatic or predestined.
Jesus taught no different gospel. He made it abundantly clear that eternal life belongs only to those who do the will of the Father. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21). The ones who are turned away are not unbelievers but professing followers—people who claimed His name yet practiced lawlessness. Their belief, without obedience, was worthless. In Matthew 19:17, when asked how to receive eternal life, Jesus answered without hesitation: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He did not oppose faith, but He never disconnected it from obedience. He warned that only those who endure to the end shall be saved (Matthew 24:13), and “Whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man… But whoever does not do them… great was its fall” (Matthew 7:24-27).
Christ never presented belief as a substitute for obedience, but as its source. “If you love Me, keep My commandments”(John 14:15). To love Him without doing what He commands is, in His own words, a lie. “He who does not love Me does not keep My words” (John 14:24). Obedience is not optional—it is the very mark of a true disciple. Jesus plainly said that on the day of judgment, people will rise to different fates: “those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:29). He never promised salvation to those who confess His name yet live in disobedience.
The apostles who walked with Jesus continued this message with complete harmony. James, the brother of the Lord, declared that “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead” (James 2:17). He did not teach salvation by works—but he insisted that faith that does not result in righteous action is no faith at all. “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only” (James 2:24). And John, the disciple beloved by Jesus, was just as clear: “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments” (1 John 2:3). “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar” (verse 4). In the final book of Scripture, Jesus repeats the condition: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life” (Revelation 22:14). Salvation is a gift, but the gate remains guarded by obedience.
These witnesses speak with one voice: obedience is not opposed to grace—it is the fruit of grace. The commandments of God are not abolished; they are written on the hearts of the faithful. Works do not replace faith, but without them, faith is shown to be false. Jesus did not die to create a lawless people, but a holy people, zealous for good works. God never promised eternal life to the disobedient, and Jesus never welcomed the lawless into His kingdom.
Therefore, any doctrine that claims a person may be saved apart from obedience to God’s commandments is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a counterfeit message, often built from the distorted use of Paul’s writings. Jesus warned us: “Beware of false prophets... you will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:15-16). True faith produces the fruit of obedience. The one who builds his life on the words of Jesus will stand; the one who builds on anything else—even on a version of “grace” without obedience—will fall.
Hear the voice of Christ: “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” Not to earn salvation, but to walk the narrow road of faith made perfect by works.
Great article LoveYeshua!
I never would have believed that I'd get push-back by stating that God must be obeyed !
And yet, here we are.....having to post scripture in support of statements that God must be obeyed.
unbelievable.
And, to be told by some that good works are a sin because they add to the work of the cross !
Thanks for such a good post.
You're welcome, I too am surprised some think they will be saved even if they knowingly disobey GOD. the worst is what God asks us to do is Good and also so we can be Holy as he is Holy, this is what the bible teaches and how to get there by obedience, I once wrote a post on obedience but it was not popular.... but it was no surprise to me, I expected as much but I had written about obedience nonetheless in case if would be interesting for a few.
I placed the link in case you or anyone on this thread are be interested;
The Theology of Obedience from Genesis to Revelation
I know it might look as I am pushing my own threads but Not! simply because I think it might be relevant for this thread. and it is a long post and might not fit here due to the character limitation per post.Blessings.
It's very important to post what scripture teaches.
The reason for this is that many read along but do not post.
Many probably read the thread you linked but did not reply...
it's still good that it was read.
Many new Christians come on to these forums too.
Basically, I'm here for them - so they could read what Jesus actually taught and not listen so
much to those that just post personal opinion.
Keep going !
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
not excluding paul . that man as were the others
huge on who we OBEY is whose we are . Dont let pauline doctrines have you exclude paul .
As i have often wrote , paul himself would have rebuked this pauline theology .
IN fact he knew as did james there is such a thing as dead faith .
Watch closely now ,
Any who provides not for his own , specially for those of his own household
HIMS HAS DENIED THE FAITH and is worse than an infidel .
People screwed things up . But if we read the bible for ourselves
we would see the truth for ourselves . Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all .
it was to avoid confusion and to keep things clear.
Paul’s writings on works often appear contradictory. In some places, he says we are justified by faith apart from works. For example, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28) and “For by grace you have been saved through faith… not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). These verses seem to dismiss works as unnecessary for salvation.
Yet in other passages, Paul affirms that deeds matter. He writes: “[God] will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality” (Romans 2:6–7).
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And as you already know it aint pauls fault people twist his own words .
Even james knew IT was by FAITH IN CHRIST that saved .
James himself was simply exposing a false conversion .
I know all about that conversion , because for years that was me .
lipping at times HIS NAME , but my works were of the darkness .
And this might terrify you or not , but what i say next should make many a christain tremble .
I COULD STILL DO GOOD WORKS , still give to the poor .
YET STILL I KNEW HIM NOT and the proof was , i loved my sins .
OH may that shock this realm to its very core and make it think and pray and get back into the bible
to learn for themselves .
WHEN I was lost and in sin
THIS CHRISTIAN AGE and churches WOULD HAVE LOVED ME and called me a solider of GOD .
BUT I WAS LOST . now they call me hater but i am FOUND . we gots problems . BIG PROBLEMS .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Ask me this one simple question .
Ask me , hey amigo
do you think pauls writings appear contradictory .
THE ANSWER IS A FAT RESOUNDING NO .
but then i no longer love my sin and try and find an ear tickler to tell me what my flesh desires to hear .
WHEN GOD calleth , HE CHANGES that man , new heart . and that new heart HAS GREAT HUNGER for truth
and to know and to serve HE WHO SAVED IT .
Most folks can at best lip things about what it means to them about being born again
and yet THEY HAVE NOT EVEN EXPERIENCED IT .
Pretty scary indeed , but not for me , for them .
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