Is it possible to lose salvation?

[nedsk]

Yup.
Everybody forgets that we still have a free will . . .

Indeed

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Can YOU show me where the Bible says that we are ONLY yo adhere to what is in the Bible??
What did the Christians do for the first 300 years of the Church when there was NO Canon of Scripture??

The Bible does NOT teach Sola Scriptura. It teaches that Scripture is Authoritative. BUT – ii also teaches that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As I pointed out – Rom. 3:10 states firmly that NOBODY is righteous.
WHO is James talking about when he says the prayer of a righteous person is very powerful?

Rev. 5:8 shows saints in heaven interceding on the behalf of the saints on earth by taking our prayers to God.

Revelation 5:8

King James Version

​

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

This says nothing about praying to saints in heaven,nor angels. that is man made.

Well the bible declares there is only one mediator between god and man- the god/man christ Jesus. We have no other heavenly mediators! Anything outside of Scripture if it does not conform to what is in Scripture must be rejected!

So sad you do not recognize that romans 3:10 is speaking of mankind in their natural state. I received Christ as my savior and now I am fully righteous. He took my sin and replaced it with His righteousness.

As for all your verses? You ripped them out of their context which defines what is meant and created a new doctrine out of whole cloth!

Jesus is the head of the church and the church is absolute when it is faithful to Scripture. Even the Roman church has declared the Scriptures the absllute authority. All the other writings while inspired, did not meet the level of pneumotheotis to be included in the Scriptures.

Anything a preacher or pope adds, if it does not conform to what is revealed in Scriupture is to be rejected and renounced at all costs!

 

[nedsk]

Revelation 5:8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

This says nothing about praying to saints in heaven,nor angels. that is man made.

Well the bible declares there is only one mediator between god and man- the god/man christ Jesus. We have no other heavenly mediators! Anything outside of Scripture if it does not conform to what is in Scripture must be rejected!

So sad you do not recognize that romans 3:10 is speaking of mankind in their natural state. I received Christ as my savior and now I am fully righteous. He took my sin and replaced it with His righteousness.

As for all your verses? You ripped them out of their context which defines what is meant and created a new doctrine out of whole cloth!

Jesus is the head of the church and the church is absolute when it is faithful to Scripture. Even the Roman church has declared the Scriptures the absllute authority. All the other writings while inspired, did not meet the level of pneumotheotis to be included in the Scriptures.

Anything a preacher or pope adds, if it does not conform to what is revealed in Scriupture is to be rejected and renounced at all costs!

Ah there we have it, the tired old "out of context" argument. Quickly translated that means, it doesn't jive with the narrative you've been fed. Hilarious

Btw you didn't even bother to answer that poster question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Revelation 5:8​

King James Version​

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

This says nothing about praying to saints in heaven,nor angels. that is man made.

Well the bible declares there is only one mediator between god and man- the god/man christ Jesus. We have no other heavenly mediators! Anything outside of Scripture if it does not conform to what is in Scripture must be rejected!

Jesus is our only mediator because only HE can bring peace between us and the Father.

HOWEVER, we are ALL called to be intercessors - and that’s exactly what we see in Rev. 5:8.

So sad you do not recognize that romans 3:10 is speaking of mankind in their natural state. I received Christ as my savior and now I am fully righteous. He took my sin and replaced it with His righteousness.

And, if you were Baptized in Him – you WERE forgiven for every sin you committed before coming to Christ.

You are NOT forgiven for your future sins until you repent of them. James was writing to born-again believers when he wrote:
James 5:17
Therefore, CONFESS YOUR SINS to each other and and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

So was John, when HE wrote:
1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

As for all your verses? You ripped them out of their context which defines what is meant and created a new doctrine out of whole cloth!
Jesus is the head of the church and the church is absolute when it is faithful to Scripture. Even the Roman church has declared the Scriptures the absllute authority. All the other writings while inspired, did not meet the level of pneumotheotis to be included in the Scriptures.

WRONG.
Not even the Scriptures themselves claim that Scripture is the “Absolute Authority”.

Scripture is absolutely Authoritative – but the Church is our final earthly Authority, according to Scripture (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:16-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Anything a preacher or pope adds, if it does not conform to what is revealed in Scriupture is to be rejected and renounced at all costs!

Since Sola Scriptura is a 16th century man-made invention - that would wipe out every single Protestant sect .. . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Revelation 5:8​

King James Version​

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

This says nothing about praying to saints in heaven,nor angels. that is man made.

Well the bible declares there is only one mediator between god and man- the god/man christ Jesus. We have no other heavenly mediators! Anything outside of Scripture if it does not conform to what is in Scripture must be rejected!

So sad you do not recognize that romans 3:10 is speaking of mankind in their natural state. I received Christ as my savior and now I am fully righteous. He took my sin and replaced it with His righteousness.

As for all your verses? You ripped them out of their context which defines what is meant and created a new doctrine out of whole cloth!

Jesus is the head of the church and the church is absolute when it is faithful to Scripture. Even the Roman church has declared the Scriptures the absllute authority. All the other writings while inspired, did not meet the level of pneumotheotis to be included in the Scriptures.

Anything a preacher or pope adds, if it does not conform to what is revealed in Scriupture is to be rejected and renounced at all costs!

And thanks for avoiding the question.
Here it is again for your enjoyment . . .

Can YOU show me where the Bible says that we are ONLY you adhere to what is in the Bible??

 

[GodsGrace]

I did say it was. AGAIN I said it was more like doctrine that dogma. That's what I said.

I don't understand your point then. Please clarify

Nedsk....
How one receives communion is absolutely not a dogma.

But it also isn't a doctrine.

maybe @BreadOfLife could chime in.
I DO respect his knowledge.

I asked a Deacon, BTW.

 

[GodsGrace]

No he said flesh. John 6:51 then verses 53, 54, 55, 56

I was thinking of THIS IS MY BODY WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU....

But check out John 6:53
In Greek the word used for EAT means to chew.

 

[GodsGrace]

He didn't say NOT to.

We ARE told, however to pray and intercede for one another as the Body of Christ. Paul explains in 1 Cor. 11 that the Body has many parts - and they ALL need each other.

If we, the parts of the Body of Christ ALL need each other - why would we NOT ask each other for intercession?

Do you only do what the Bible says to do?
Where does the Bible give this instruction?

Good Bread...
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It does seem to me that it might have been brought up at some point.

I don't think about this too much.
I'm interested in soteriology.

 

[GodsGrace]

OK.

What does "if The Son sets you free, you will be free indeed" mean to you?
And i'll quote stephen...Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.

I'm a bit beyond Theology 101.
If you want to have a conversation,,,fine...
but it's going to have to have some meat in the stew.

You made quite some accusations regarding a simple post to you.
I said you misunderstood and you STILL want to continue?

I don't think so.

Catch you next time...
IF you understand what I post.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats fine but your understanding isnt integral to what God teaches.

It is if I can prove it with scripture that does not conflict with other scripture.

God did not teach that we are to pray to those that have gone before us.
It just isn't there Nedsk.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nedsk....
How one receives communion is absolutely not a dogma.

But it also isn't a doctrine.

maybe @BreadOfLife could chime in.
I DO respect his knowledge.

I asked a Deacon, BTW.

You are correct. It is a matter of discipline, not dogma or doctrine.

 

[ProDeo]

@BreadOfLife

I am trying to understand the Roman Catholic principle of the Eucharist.

John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
John 6:56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Do you literally believe you are eating the flesh of Jesus body when He was on Earth and literally drink His blood?

 

[nedsk]

Nedsk....
How one receives communion is absolutely not a dogma.

But it also isn't a doctrine.

maybe @BreadOfLife could chime in.
I DO respect his knowledge.

I asked a Deacon, BTW.

I never claimed it was dogma or doctrine. What did I say?

You need to slow down.

 

[nedsk]

It is if I can prove it with scripture that does not conflict with other scripture.

God did not teach that we are to pray to those that have gone before us.
It just isn't there Nedsk.

And Scripture is not all the church relies on GG

 

[GodsGrace]

I never claimed it was dogma or doctrine. What did I say?

You need to slow down.

You said, more than once, that it was doctrine.
But let's get away from this.

 

[nedsk]

You said, more than once, that it was doctrine.
But let's get away from this.

No I didn't. I said it was MORE LIKE doctrine than dogma. That's what I said.
It's important that we be accurate. Even if someone is in error it's essential we are accurate about their error.

 

[GodsGrace]

No I didn't. I said it was MORE LIKE doctrine than dogma. That's what I said.
It's important that we be accurate. Even if someone is in error it's essential we are accurate about their error.

I really hate to pursue this, but here we go.....
Dogma cannot be changed.
Doctrine also cannot be changed if we understand it to be matters of faith.
It can be made more clear over time,,,but it cannot change.
As I had stated...if a doctrine could change it would create a problem...
was it correct BEFORE the change or AFTER....
Matters of faith cannot be changed or we'd cease to have faith in the teachings of the CC.

Other teachings can change.
How one receives communion is one of these teachings...
I couldn't remember what they're called but another member helped me...
it's called a discipline----
A discipline can be changed, for whatever reason.

I seem to remember that you did say it was MORE like a doctrine, but I didn't like how that sounded for those reading along.
As you've stated...I think we should be accurate.
So, I searched out the correct reply and the correct reply is that it's a discipline.

I think we've covered this fully now and we should drop it.

 

[nedsk]

I really hate to pursue this, but here we go.....
Dogma cannot be changed.
Doctrine also cannot be changed if we understand it to be matters of faith.
It can be made more clear over time,,,but it cannot change.
As I had stated...if a doctrine could change it would create a problem...
was it correct BEFORE the change or AFTER....
Matters of faith cannot be changed or we'd cease to have faith in the teachings of the CC.

Other teachings can change.
How one receives communion is one of these teachings...
I couldn't remember what they're called but another member helped me...
it's called a discipline----
A discipline can be changed, for whatever reason.

I seem to remember that you did say it was MORE like a doctrine, but I didn't like how that sounded for those reading along.
As you've stated...I think we should be accurate.
So, I searched out the correct reply and the correct reply is that it's a discipline.

I think we've covered this fully now and we should drop it.

I'm not the one that's continuing it. I NEVER said how one receives communion is dogma or doctrine. You can either acknowledge that or you can't. Tell me which it is and we can put it to rest either way but we need to be clear that I never said it was either. I don't care if you agree or disagree but it needs to be about what I actually said and not what you think I said. It's like the discussion about faith and works and people tell me works don't save us. I NEVER claim that works save us but they persist in their error just like we observe with behold. That annoys me more than anything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I

@BreadOfLife
I am trying to understand the Roman Catholic principle of the Eucharist.

John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
John 6:56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Do you literally believe you are eating the flesh of Jesus body when He was on Earth and literally drink His blood?

The usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, “to munch or to gnaw “- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Passover Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

As to your question – we absolutely believe we are consuming the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. We are not eating veins and muscle tissue. We are consuming Him in a Sacramental manner under the appearance of bread and wine.

In John 6:66, a large faction of His disciples left Him and no longer followed Him because they freaked- out over what He told them. Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked them:
“Do you also want to leave” (John 6:67).

They chose to stay with Him because He never led them astray. At the Last Supper, He showed them HOW to consume Him - sacramentally. Does that help?

 

[nedsk]

I

The usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, “to munch or to gnaw “- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Passover Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

As to your question – we absolutely believe we are consuming the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ - Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. We are not eating veins and muscle tissue. We are consuming Him in a Sacramental manner under the appearance of bread and wine.

In John 6:66, a large faction of His disciples left Him and no longer followed Him because they freaked- out over what He told them. Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked them:
“Do you also want to leave” (John 6:67).

They chose to stay with Him because He never led them astray. At the Last Supper, He showed them HOW to consume Him - sacramentally. Does that help?

And if the Eucharist is not a sacrament then Jesus dying in the cross was just an execution