Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

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Aunty Jane

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The mystery of the kingdom of heaven may not be something we can fully understand and understand, the marriage of the secular world, not entirely based on true love, Maybe that's why Jesus Christ said there was no marriage in heaven, Because maybe he's going to destroy those fake marriages, or maybe we're all going to be kids in heaven, so we don't need marriage anymore, But either way, God is sure to give us the best plan.
Again, the big picture is important when we are examining isolated texts.

Do we have the correct picture in mind when we are doing so...or have we been misled right from the beginning as Jesus said that the “weeds” of false Christianity would be sown by the devil, and would grow in such a rapid manner (like weeds always do, even in the poorest soil) so as to misrepresent everything that Jesus taught?

Take a wider angle and see.....
Why did God created humans as mortal creatures, and place them on a carefully prepared planet in a vast material universe? What did he tell them to do? Was heaven ever mentioned as a destination for his mortal creatures before Jesus came to this earth? Was there a natural cause of death mentioned to Adam?

They had a beautiful place that God had specially prepared to care for all their needs.....a garden filled with trees that offered delicious fruits so that they had healthful food, pristinely clean water and a mission to spread the boundaries of their paradise home to eventually encompass the whole earth. They also had two trees in the garden...one offered everlasting life (meaning no death) and the other through disobedience would introduce it. (Gen 3:22-24)

They were to “fill the earth” with their children and because there was no sickness, aging or death to interfere with the project, the Creator gave them purpose to their existence....he was a tireless worker, and he created humans with all his attributes and qualities....so that they could emulate him in enjoying the work he gave them to do. They had his eye for beauty and his desire for perfection.....they had his creativity....so, imagine if they had been free to just carry out that assignment, unimpeded?

After all these thousands of years, would the earth be the polluted mess that greedy humans have made of it?
So we have to ask why God permitted what took place in the garden. He could have just wiped out the rebels and started again....why do you think he didn’t?

And how was he going to bring about his first established purpose for the earth and his human family upon it, now that a serious derailment had occurred? (Isa 55:11)
 

St. SteVen

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Just an observation…Wouldn’t death part them? Or have I misunderstood “til death do us part”? That implies death parts what God has joined together? Shouldn’t it be what God has joined together let no person tear apart, where not even death can separate what God has joined together.
As I understand it, there will be no marriage in heaven. (whatever that means)
“til death do us part” certainly indicates a parting at death.

Mark 12:25 NIV
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

[
 

VictoryinJesus

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As I understand it, there will be no marriage in heaven. (whatever that means)
“til death do us part” certainly indicates a parting at death.

Mark 12:25 NIV
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

[
That is confusing when considering the marriage supper of the Lamb.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Ok. But Which are the types and shadows? Which is most important? What are the types and shadows which point to what is profitable and freeing? There is one way I can see “til death do us part” and it’s what Paul speaks of here: Galatians 2:19-20 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. [20] I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Till death do us part…for through the law I died to the law, so I might live unto God?
The whole idea of comparing God’s ways to what humans understand, is vital to us getting the point of these types and shadows.
Marriage is an almost universal arrangement in human society, so when God uses marriage as a type or shadow, we understand that a relationship, based on love is involved. It’s not the romantic love that is the subject of “love songs”, but a deeper and more abiding love based on principles outlined in the Bible. It involves loyalty, empathy, kindness and mercy...all the things that Jesus demonstrated in his approach to people.

This is “agape”.....the kind of love that can be extended even to an enemy in the sense that it does not illicit a vengeful hatred for the person, even if we hate what they do. We have no ill will towards them although we may hate the the motivation for their actions. Jesus came to such people who were abandoned by their religious “shepherds” as worthless. To Jesus, no one was worthless....they just had to be educated and have the right heart condition to have the seeds of truth implanted. (Matt 13:3-9)
I’m trying to help. For example men get offended if you suggest the proverbs 31 woman includes them. It’s shunned anytime gender comes into it. Please don’t dismiss it by saying there are types and shadows, instead I think it was helpful to why Paul says “death” makes the woman free to marry another.
To again take a wider view, women in Israelite society, as in many others, were viewed as lesser ones, somewhat inferior in position to men.....but such was not the way it was in the beginning. God created men and women to complement one another as equals in a partnership, but with gender assigned roles so that there was no reason for competition between them. We see how the world has corrupted that picture.

For a woman to be a widow in Israel was way more common than for a man to be without a wife. It’s one of the reasons why God tolerated polygamy. Battles took their toll on the male population. The women described by Solomon in Prov 31, no doubt existed, but were probably a rarity, as women of that era were to be workers at home, caring for wifely and child care responsibilities......Solomon didn’t mention men because men already had the responsibilities he outlines.....it doesn’t mean that everyone measured up, but they had the potential according to their circumstances. Not everyone had the capability, just as we see today. Some are sponges off their government’s provisions and some don’t have those provisions at all. Circumstances limit what they can do.
 
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soberxp

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Again, the big picture is important when we are examining isolated texts.

Do we have the correct picture in mind when we are doing so...or have we been misled right from the beginning as Jesus said that the “weeds” of false Christianity would be sown by the devil, and would grow in such a rapid manner (like weeds always do, even in the poorest soil) so as to misrepresent everything that Jesus taught?

Take a wider angle and see.....
Why did God created humans as mortal creatures, and place them on a carefully prepared planet in a vast material universe? What did he tell them to do? Was heaven ever mentioned as a destination for his mortal creatures before Jesus came to this earth? Was there a natural cause of death mentioned to Adam?

They had a beautiful place that God had specially prepared to care for all their needs.....a garden filled with trees that offered delicious fruits so that they had healthful food, pristinely clean water and a mission to spread the boundaries of their paradise home to eventually encompass the whole earth. They also had two trees in the garden...one offered everlasting life (meaning no death) and the other through disobedience would introduce it. (Gen 3:22-24)

They were to “fill the earth” with their children and because there was no sickness, aging or death to interfere with the project, the Creator gave them purpose to their existence....he was a tireless worker, and he created humans with all his attributes and qualities....so that they could emulate him in enjoying the work he gave them to do. They had his eye for beauty and his desire for perfection.....they had his creativity....so, imagine if they had been free to just carry out that assignment, unimpeded?

After all these thousands of years, would the earth be the polluted mess that greedy humans have made of it?
So we have to ask why God permitted what took place in the garden. He could have just wiped out the rebels and started again....why do you think he didn’t?

And how was he going to bring about his first established purpose for the earth and his human family upon it, now that a serious derailment had occurred? (Isa 55:11)
All that I can say that marriage between Adam and Eve, male and female, is for the learning of life and love.
Nothing more.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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For a woman to be a widow in Israel was way more common than for a man to be without a wife. It’s one of the reasons why God tolerated polygamy. Battles took their toll on the male population. The women described by Solomon in Prov 31, no doubt existed, but were probably a rarity, as women of that era were to be workers at home, caring for wifely and child care responsibilities......Solomon didn’t mention men because men already had the responsibilities he outlines.....it doesn’t mean that everyone measured up, but they had the potential according to their circumstances. Not everyone had the capability, just as we see today. Some are sponges off their government’s provisions and some don’t have those provisions at all. Circumstances limit what they can do.
Personally I think the Proverbs 31 Woman is
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

With all due respect…we returned to talking about (literal) widows in those times…moving away from Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Personally I think the Proverbs 31 Woman is
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
That is an interpretation that is not supported elsewhere in the Bible. Proverbs 31 is about a capable wife. It outlines her capabilities as one treasured by a husband. As I have mentioned before, looking for types and shadows where none exist, just creates rabbit holes that lead to nowhere useful.

The bride of Christ is made up of men and women, chosen from among mankind on the earth as “firstfruits” (Rev 14:1-5). As an agricultural nation Israel knew what the “firstfruits” were....the pick of the crop. But it also alluded to a second gathering of the later fruits...still good, but not the same harvest as the firstfruits.

Remember that there are no gender roles in heaven.
With all due respect…we returned to talking about widows in those times…moving away from Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
When Paul says “you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” This is the bride of Christ....who are all “married” in the spiritual sense to Christ...”the one who is raised from the dead”. The “fruitage” of that union is spiritual children.

I cannot see what you see in that verse, as it is very clear to me what Paul meant.
 

St. SteVen

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All that I can say that marriage between Adam and Eve, male and female, is for the learning of life and love.
Nothing more.
Can't we learn life and love without being married?
Jesus taught us to love our neighbors as ourselves.
Can we really love anyone more than that?

[
 

Aunty Jane

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All that I can say that marriage between Adam and Eve, male and female, is for the learning of life and love.
Nothing more.
Gender roles from the beginning were clearly outlined....each had a role to play that complimented each other. There was to be no competition between genders, (and there were only two with appropriate pronouns) and if each one fulfilled their role as God had stated, a happy united and secure family unit would be created in which to raise children.....what happened to Adam and his wife? Did they achieve that goal.....and in what environment did they raise their sons? Within one generation they produced a cold blooded murderer.

The first humans did not obey their Sovereign ruler because a third party cunningly planted seeds of doubt about his right to set the limits of the freedom he gave them......free will was not really “free” because their choices had clearly outlined consequences. They each disobeyed God in full knowledge that they were doing the wrong thing. Each one could have altered their course, but they chose not to.

They could not be told about the ramifications of those consequences, so God decided to give them the freedom they wanted, under a different ruler (the one they had chosen to obey) to demonstrate exactly where it would take them.....and here we are.

What have we learned?
 

Aunty Jane

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Can't we learn life and love without being married?
Absolutely....Jesus wasn’t married, and he conducted himself well in the course for which he was sent....marriage for him would have complicated things to no end.

Paul said that if one could make room for the unmarried state as he had, there would be more freedom to serve the Lord unencumbered. He loved the brotherhood he served just as Jesus did......a much higher love that most people can comprehend.
Jesus taught us to love our neighbors as ourselves.
And in today’s World where the selfish “me first” attitude prevails more than at any other time in history, the love we should extend to our neighbors is almost missing entirely. Homeless people are everywhere but the rich and famous are all cozied up in their mansions sipping their expensive liquor and feeling smug about their lifestyle, whilst even a small proportion of their wealth, if given to the needy could provide something positive for their fellow humans who have fallen on hard times in a heartless society who can pass them by in the street without a second thought as to how they would feel if someone showed them a little kindness.....after all “there but for the grace of God go I”.

Is it God’s Grace that prevents one person from financial success in life, whilst granting an abundance to another? The recommendation to Christians was to share what they had with their fellow believers. Do we see this today? Some are very philanthropic but it requires no sacrifice on their part if they are only spending excess funds on helping others. A sacrifice should cost us something.
Can we really love anyone more than that?
We can love people in a variety of ways....by sharing the material benefits we have...by helping them physically, if we have no spare assets to help them financially, and even to offer the comfort and help that the Bible provides in giving them a sure hope for the future.....there are many ways to give, according to our circumstances. And genuine “LOVE” should be the reason why.

If our help is offered to “blow our own trumpet”, to get a pat on the back for our efforts, we have lost sight of what loving our neighbor really means.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Proverbs 31 is about a capable wife.
Agree. It is about a capable wife.
It outlines her capabilities as one treasured by a husband.
Agree! Treasured by her husband.
The bride of Christ is made up of men and women
Agree again. That’s the point I’m trying to make. The bride of Christ is made up of men and women…I don’t dispute it.
When Paul says “you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” This is the bride of Christ....who are all “married” in the spiritual sense to Christ...”the one who is raised from the dead”. The “fruitage” of that union is spiritual children.
You said “This is the bride of Christ…agree!

who are married in the spiritual sense to Christ. Is that less than “married” in the physical sense to a husband?

You said ‘the fruitage’ of that union is spiritual children. Agree! encourage you to read the proverbs 31 woman’s description… again. “this is the bride of Christ.” “The bride of Christ is made up of men and women.” Agree. Agree. Agree.

Why do we want it to not be so. What is offensive about the Proverbs 31 woman where “who can find an excellent wife.” Why don’t we want the answer to be Christ can find an excellent wife! Considering He is the Head. She brings her food from afar. Her worth is far above Jewels.
 
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Grailhunter

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Reading through the thread I noted people throwing around the word fornication. The word fornication is not in the scriptures….It is not a true theological word. The translators lumped a bunch of Greek words for various sexual sins into words like fornication or sexual misconduct. The word fornication mostly appears in less accurate Bibles and sexual misconduct or variants thereof appears in modern Bibles. But the word fornication does not match the NT Greek or any scriptures or definitions in the Bible….LOL because fornication comes from a 5th century Latin word.

So Christ could not have referred to fornication….that is in any language….it comes from the Latin in the 5th century. Even if the word was around in the 1st century He would not have used it because back then you could not get married before having sex because couples had to have sex to be married. No requirement in the Old or New Testament for a wedding Ceremony to be married. The sexual union was the consummation of the marriage. So two single people having sex was not a sin…..as long as they stayed together.

The Protestants made church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married in the 16th century. Fornication makes people think that two single people having sex is a sin, when that was the normal process to be married before the 16th century. So the word fornication is a very powerful word in a bad way....it skews all of reality concern marriage before the 16th century and provides limitless ammo for judging people after the 16th century. Sexual promiscuity is a serious sin but two people in love that make love and have a wedding have not sinned. Beyond that two monogamous people living together have not sinned.

Second point, In the Gospels...Christ was talking to Jews about the Mosaic Law pertaining to the Letter of Divorcement and that discussion did not define how many wives these Jews had. It is more accurate to say that if they divorced a wife that they could not marry another…..but they could have had 4 wives. Even to this the Apostles pushed back on it….Saying, If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry. And Christ kinda sets the whole thing on its ear because He suggested that Moses wrote the Law on divorcement. Bottom line all of this is a conversation between Jews about the Mosaic Law. Very little of it actually pertains to Christians. Matthew 19:4-12

In fact Jewish Law has nothing to do with Christian marriages or divorces….We do not follow those rules for a lot of reasons but for one they were based on the belief that women where property…. first of their father and then sold to there husband.

Why was Christ against Jewish divorce? It was cruel. The Jews would sometimes divorce their older wives to take on younger wives. A divorced Jewish wife had nowhere to go and it was almost a death sentence. They had no rights to children or property. Other Jewish men would not marry them and younger divorcees often ended up as prostitutes.

So what does all this mean to Christians? Well in the 1st century, Christians were still practicing polygamy. But I am not going to address that….

Christianity did not adopt the Jewish Letter of Divorcement and civil courts did not deal with divorces until the middle ages. And women were not allowed to divorce their husbands until the early 1900’s. So how did Christians deal with divorce centuries ago? Answer…. they did not. If a woman left her husband it was considered adultery and in some cases she was killed.

Was or is, Christianity following what the Bible say? NO. There is no Christian process for divorce in the scriptures. Paul discusses couples separating in cases of infidelity but does not use the word divorce because divorce is a Jewish concept that does not apply to Christianity. He discussed a husband leaving his wife or a wife leaving her husband. Walk away….put away. But that did not mean they were unmarried and they were not suppose to remarry. And Paul does not discuss the issues of children and property. And there were no courts to regulate it so in function it was all a loose understanding.

So now the question is….how much of this are we going to adopt into Christianity today? Well, we adopted the word divorce and the civil courts made a lucrative business of it which generally makes everyone miserable.

We are left with the following questions....Is infidelity the only reason for divorce? Should divorce be a knee jerk reaction to infidelity? What about the children, the scriptures do not address that. Should a wife stay with a husband that physically or mentally abuses her and the children. Beating your wife every Friday night is not infidelity. Should couples that are no longer in love remain together? There is going to be different opinions on this. And there should be some reasonable regulations and responsibilities, but I am not sure if limiting them to what the Bible says is the answer….what say you?

As for me? This is all my opinions. I love wedding ceremonies and agree with the Protestants making it a requirement to be married, but I do not agree with condemning monogamous couples living together and they should be welcomed in the church….odds are good the more they get involved with the church more chances that they will have a wedding.

As far as divorce? I believe that there are reasons for divorce other than infidelity. And remarriage can be good thing, but that is after all possibly of reconciliation has failed. Also since we do not divorce our kids….seeing our ex’s as extend families benefits the kids in several ways.

We should not hate each other because we divorce each other. That is why it is better to keep lawyers out of the divorce process, do it yourself.

So what do you think?
 
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soberxp

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Can't we learn life and love without being married?
Jesus taught us to love our neighbors as ourselves.
Can we really love anyone more than that?

[
Before encountering God, our first experience of love comes from parents and family. Even in broken homes, the human heart still yearns to be loved. Thus, in all circumstances, we learn how to love—in the ways we believe are right. (Though some tragically mistake hatred for love—but that’s another story.)

I refuse to believe humans cannot truly learn to love others. For God is love—whether or not we’ve ever touched Scripture.

Because fragments of His Word have already permeated our world, distilled into secular wisdom.

Many ask, ‘If God exists, why doesn’t He fix this broken world?’ Yet He is governing it—through ways deeper than we perceive."

Can't we learn life and love without being married?

I’ve pondered this: If humanity abandoned marriage, childbirth, and sex altogether—perhaps we’d have achieved immortality by now.
 
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soberxp

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Gender roles from the beginning were clearly outlined....each had a role to play that complimented each other. There was to be no competition between genders, (and there were only two with appropriate pronouns) and if each one fulfilled their role as God had stated, a happy united and secure family unit would be created in which to raise children.....what happened to Adam and his wife? Did they achieve that goal.....and in what environment did they raise their sons? Within one generation they produced a cold blooded murderer.

The first humans did not obey their Sovereign ruler because a third party cunningly planted seeds of doubt about his right to set the limits of the freedom he gave them......free will was not really “free” because their choices had clearly outlined consequences. They each disobeyed God in full knowledge that they were doing the wrong thing. Each one could have altered their course, but they chose not to.

They could not be told about the ramifications of those consequences, so God decided to give them the freedom they wanted, under a different ruler (the one they had chosen to obey) to demonstrate exactly where it would take them.....and here we are.

What have we learned?
The stories in the Bible do not describe in detail how Adam and Eve taught their children.
But at least we know from the side, They let their children know that God exists. I don't know how Adam and Eve explained to their children that human will surely die.

Since Adam and Eve did not obey God's word in the first place, we do not know what truth they learned from God. The Bible does not go into detail, because if It goes into detail about everything, the book will overwhelm me.

So we can't blame Adam and Eve for not raising their children, because there were two children. So things are hard to explain.
A child is good in the eyes of God, a child is not good in the eyes of God.

We can not take our existing accumulated knowledge and experience to compare the original things, this is unreasonable, to some extent, unfair, I mean in terms of knowledge.

Because the knowledge we gain is a situation that God leads and teaches through real examples, For example, parents have all kinds of problems with their children.

Even my own knowledge is built on all imperfections, with my own imperfections, imperfections from elsewhere, I wish I was in heaven, only to receive the perfect knowledge?
 

pandaflower

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Do angels have testicles? Personally (Imo) I don’t think that proves they had testicles. We think sex is the only way to go in, enter in to plant their seed. Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
So that they “fathered” the Nephilim.(Tyrants) Jesus spoke of the enemy of His Father as the father of lies. Are testicles needed to sow “lies” or “falsehoods”? Sex doesn’t have to happen, testicles don’t have to be present to plant the seed spoken of in the parable of the sower and the seed. There were giants (Tyrants) in those days could also be who is spoken of here: Numbers 13:28 Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there. (Ephesians For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us;)

Numbers 13:31-33 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. [32] And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eats up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature(Tyrants). [33] And there we saw the giants(Tyrants), the sons of Anak, which come of (birth)the giants(Tyrants): and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. (Is this literally those giants see us as very, very small and low men to the ground men?)

(Imo) takeaway from the above is first, if one side which is strong are “giants” literally as we draw pictures of Goliath…then the smaller side must be literal “grasshoppers”. For the giants see them as grasshoppers.

Second takeaway is all that describes “giants”
They are men of high and great “statue”. We think in height of how tall the men are. Because Hollywood makes movies about really tall men, robust and “strong”. But “stature” can be exactly what most of the word speaks of as men in elevated, lifted up higher than God stature. As when Jesus spoke of they are those who love the highest seats. For example the pope is elevated to a high stature. See, his high stature!
These in the land that intimidate and are frightening like when Jesus warned “fear not what men can do unto you”…men who appear untouchable, “stronger than we”. They are those that eat up the inhabitants of the land. Are they giants that eat(the bones) of men? New Testament speaks of eating up and consuming one another… “be careful you don’t devour one another.”

Third, Jesus speaks of to fear not for He who is in you, is stronger than him who is in the world. Are their giants in the world? Are there men of high stature? Tyrants?

No …testicles are not needed to father children of the devil. It’s planting a false (seed) gospel. It’s spreading seed that is not men’s sperm but bears children all, sin unto death. If there were giants in those days. Which is not “men of high stature” “strong” “who devour the inhabitants of the land” but instead it’s literal “Goliath’s” with testicles like the giant from Jack and the bean stalk….then there must be grasshopper men also. (Imo) we miss the whole message behind Jesus indeed was up against Giants in His days…they took Him and mocked “His stature”.

I get that is a long post and will probably be ignored as insane. But what is insane?
I like that last part. lol

Lot knew his two visitors were angels. He offered his two daughters to the gay men of Sodom so they'd be sexually satisfied having initially demanded sex with the angels.

Lot must have known something about angel anatomy.

Plus the sons of God, in early text,had sex with human females who then bore offspring.
Sounds like testicles were a thing there too.
 

Aunty Jane

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The stories in the Bible do not describe in detail how Adam and Eve taught their children.
No one could have taught their children better than God.....he educated his angelic sons long before humans were created.
He also educated Adam long before he created Eve, because he had to be the family head, responsible for the spiritual and physical well being of his wife and children.

It was because they both abused the free will that God gave them as a gift, and turned it into a curse. Every evil committed on this earth is an abuse of free will....someone forcing their will on others.
Even the devil was once an obedient son who fell into the trap of thinking he could be equal to God...if only he had lower creatures to worship him. He plotted a way to get the worship he wanted, by deception.

We also have a God-given conscience, designed to give us natural responses to certain actions that we know are wrong....so we can avoid bad consequences.....but we don’t always take notice of the small voice inside our heads.
But at least we know from the side, They let their children know that God exists. I don't know how Adam and Eve explained to their children that human will surely die.
I guess they all got that rude awakening when Cain killed his brother....inflamed by jealousy, Cain’s anger festered until he committed pre-meditated murder, which under God’s Law, like the laws of man, is not manslaughter, which can be committed in a flash of uncontrolled anger, or even accidentally.....this was a coldly planned taking of human life....pre-meditated murder.

Abel was the first human to die, but not from old age or sickness, which the rest of humanity had to suffer because of the now defective nature of man. Yet every way a human can die is unnatural for beings designed to live forever in mortal flesh. That is what “the tree of life” was for in the garden. (Gen 3:22-24) And why God determined not to allow access to that tree again in man’s now sinful state.
Since Adam and Eve did not obey God's word in the first place, we do not know what truth they learned from God. The Bible does not go into detail, because if It goes into detail about everything, the book will overwhelm me.
That is true....but there is enough in the Genesis account to get a fair idea.
One thing stood out....there was not a single word of remorse from any of them. Adam and his wife blamed someone else and Cain simply complained that the punishment he received was too severe.....since there was a shortage of humans on the earth, God banished him from his family. He was exiled away from them in a foreign land.
So we can't blame Adam and Eve for not raising their children, because there were two children. So things are hard to explain.
A child is good in the eyes of God, a child is not good in the eyes of God.
I guess the hardest part was explaining why they could no longer access the garden since all the delicious fruits would now be off limits to them.....God told Adam....

Gen 3:17-19....
....“Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18  It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19  In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

What do you notice there..? The ground outside the garden to which they had been banished, was now “cursed”....nothing would grow abundantly anymore, and Adam and his wife were now forced to “eat bread” which requires growing the grain to obtain the flour.....but on cursed ground, the yield would have been meagre and of low quality. No more delicious fruit for the taking. They had to work hard to obtain even the staples.
In time their two sons were born and grew to adulthood.
Gen 4:2-5....
“Abel became a shepherd of the flock, but Cain became a cultivator of the ground. 3  After some time, Cain brought some fruits of the land as an offering to Jehovah. 4  But Abel brought some firstlings of his flock, including their fat. While Jehovah looked with favor on Abel and on his offering, 5  he did not look with any favor on Cain and on his offering. So Cain grew hot with anger and was dejected.”

How long it took to obtain the fruitage of the land is not stated, but we know it must have taken a lot of hard labor to grow it....and then to be told that his brother’s offering was superior....Cain lost the plot! God warned him that his anger would result in something bad, but he refused to be appeased. His anger festered into murder. This is the first mention of sacrifice to Jehovah....Adam and his wife are never said to have made any offering to God.

Were Adam and his wife responsible for raising their children correctly and teaching them about God and how they came to be living a life that didn’t feel right? Who else could they blame......they both disobeyed God but for different reasons.....both did so with selfish interests, just as satan did.

We can not take our existing accumulated knowledge and experience to compare the original things, this is unreasonable, to some extent, unfair, I mean in terms of knowledge.
We know that God is perfect and he does not make defective things.....it was the humans who disobeyed him and suffered the consequences of their own actions. Death only came as a result of sin.....if the humans had never sinned, they never would have died. That means that their bodies were designed in such a way that cell renewal was a constant process....a fact that science knows, but cannot explain why the process slows and eventually stops, ending in multi organ failure and death in old age. How many ways are there to die.....?....its countless!
Because the knowledge we gain is a situation that God leads and teaches through real examples, For example, parents have all kinds of problems with their children.
They do in a sinful state....but what if perfection had remained? Was there a guarantee that free will could not be used in a bad way? What caused the once perfect angel we now call satan the devil to deviate from his path...who can he blame for his sin? What does this tell us about all of God’s children who are gifted with free will? God is a perfect parent and yet he lost a third of his spirit sons to disobedience and defection from their place in heaven. And the majority of his earthly children are likewise condemned to death because they refuse his offer of salvation. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)
Even my own knowledge is built on all imperfections, with my own imperfections, imperfections from elsewhere, I wish I was in heaven, only to receive the perfect knowledge?
Sadly, imperfection is all we have ever known.....and we can learn to live well in spite of it by taking notice of what God and his son have taught us in the Bible.....but we also have to live in a world where the majority do not obey God and turn away from bad.....if we have no hope of things getting better, what is the point of this life?

If God cannot restore us back to the original perfection with which humans were created, then he is a failure.....and that is something God can never be. (Isa 55:11)
He has promised a return to our former sinless state and guaranteed it by the sacrifice of his son......a renewal of the earth itself is also promised, to repair the damage done by humans intent on greedily extracting as much from the earth as they can, without regard for why God put those things there in the first place.

Was oil put in the ground to be made into polluting substances with no regard for any bad health outcomes or in resulting earthquakes because the lubricating oil was removed from the tectonic plates?
Greedy humans have caused much damage to the earth and to human health.... this beautiful planet was never meant to host such evil people. So it’s good to know that God will restore everything back to the way is should be.....with lessons learned and a guarantee that it can never happen again.

Can I ask you why you believe that God is going to take humans to heaven when it was never in his original purpose to do so..?
What is the kingdom of God.....and what is its purpose in the future?

We have to know the answers to those questions because each one is fundamental to where the human race is going to spend eternity.
 
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soberxp

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No one could have taught their children better .

Can I ask you why you believe that God is going to take humans to heaven when it was never in his original purpose to do so..?
What is the kingdom of God.....and what is its purpose in the future?

We have to know the answers to those questions because each one is fundamental to where the human race is going to spend eternity.

First, I don’t believe Earth could sustain an eternally living population—though this is only my assessment based on current knowledge.

Moreover, the Bible states that the resurrected will be 'like the angels in heaven' (Matthew 22:30), so in that state, we will likely serve God alongside them in His Kingdom.

The Kingdom of God is where He reveals His wisdom and knowledge—which absent in this world, for this world is temporary and cannot fully reflect the totality of God’s wisdom and knowledge.
1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


I believe God’s ultimate purpose is to shape us into beings fully capable of wielding His same divine nature.

As for the fruit in Eden—I don’t think it merely represented food. Rather, it symbolized God’s wisdom and knowledge.

The Gospel of Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

I have always believed that the entire human Family Tree is the tree of life and the tree of good and evil itself.

God knew that humans would make mistakes when he created us, and God had a plan to save us.
 
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soberxp

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Have you had a personal encounter with God outside of scripture?

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Yes,I have. Please read this link, full of it.

 
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