Is the Gift of Salvation nullified by the consequences of refusal?

[Sister-n-Christ]

Agree.

There is nothing we can do to undo what only God can do in the first place.

[

Amen.

I can't imagine a born again Christian who would insist they're impermanently reprieved from their sinner status.
Which is what I see if anyone who claims Christ insist they can also throw his gift back at him.

I think much of the denial of Salvation being only what God says it is, is because skeptics and deniers don't know the meaning of Sovereignty,Dominion and Irrevocable.

And if we could release ourselves from God's eternal Salvation,where is it written? And where is the step by step process described in His word that details how we return back to our dead in sin state?

Why would any born again Christian insist they can go back by choice to being dead in their sins?

I think those who insist Jesus didn't die to seal our eternal Salvation covenant are actually unbelievers trying to wind up the faithful. Seriously.

Christians would never want to suffer the fate of damnation.

 

[St. SteVen]

I can't imagine a born again Christian who would insist they're impermanently reprieved from their sinner status.
Which is what I see if anyone who claims Christ insist they can also throw his gift back at him.

I think much of the denial of Salvation being only what God says it is, is because skeptics and deniers don't know the meaning of Sovereignty,Dominion and Irrevocable.

I'll have to be honest on this point, there are biblical arguments on both sides of the eternal security issue.
I happen to agree with your position on this, obviously. Here's a topic on the subject. Both sides share.

The Case for Eternal Security

This is typically discussed under the derogatory term OSAS (once saved always saved) So, I wanted to present the topic under positive terms. To me, the comparison is between Eternal Security and Eternal Insecurity. (my own derogatory term) Those who oppose OSAS (Eternal Security) usually don't...

www.christianityboard.com

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd. - St. SteVen

[

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

I'll have to be honest on this point, there are biblical arguments on both sides of the eternal security issue.
I happen to agree with your position on this, obviously. Here's a topic on the subject. Both sides share.

The Case for Eternal Security

This is typically discussed under the derogatory term OSAS (once saved always saved) So, I wanted to present the topic under positive terms. To me, the comparison is between Eternal Security and Eternal Insecurity. (my own derogatory term) Those who oppose OSAS (Eternal Security) usually don't...

www.christianityboard.com

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of Reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours. And his aim is to return the lost sheep to the fold.
He is, after all, the Good Shepherd. - St. SteVen

[

I don't think it wise for us to argue with the point of view that insists humans are able to overcome God's plan,will,or covenant promise of eternal security.

Just the term,eternal security, precludes any implication of loss.

My experience is,the ideology of impermanence in Christ is personal.

Whereas those who are secure in Christ have no doubt. Nor can we be led to fear.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't think it wise for us to argue with the point of view that insists humans are able to overcome God's plan,will,or covenant promise of eternal security.

Agree.
I started a topic to present the positive view of eternal security.
Every other topic on the subject was negative.
My topic was met with considerable push-back.

[

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Agree.
I started a topic to present the positive view of eternal security.
Every other topic on the subject was negative.
My topic was met with considerable push-back.

[

I don't know anyone who is Christian who will insist they are not secure in Christ and his eternal Salvation.

There's a group here that insist celebrations in the name of Jesus are overcome by Pagans ritual schedules. Even our Calendar days are to be condemned as Pagan.

I'm not going to ask what names they substitute for Monday,Tuesday, and all.

You might want to face the very real possibility that there are those who want to deny Jesus and his Gospel.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know anyone who is Christian who will insist they are not secure in Christ and his eternal Salvation.

They use as a derogatory term "OSAS" (Once Saved Always Saved)
Claiming that those who promote eternal security do it as a license to sin. (sigh)

[

 

[CadyandZoe]

Right.
We aren't saved by the Bible.

Some of us are.

We aren't saved by the church.

Some of us are.

We aren't saved by baptism.

Some of us are.

We aren't saved by doctrine.

Some of us are.

Only God can save.

True, but to deny the journey is to miss the essence of it.

God saves us through a renewed relationship with Him.
Salvation is a relationship with God.

That relationship will undoubtedly involve a journey through the Bible, doctrine, baptism, and the church.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

They use as a derogatory term "OSAS" (Once Saved Always Saved)
Claiming that those who promote eternal security do it as a license to sin. (sigh)

[

That tells me those who would do that are not in the church. It's of the Devil. Because that is exactly what God's adversary would want to teach people.
Get saved,sin all you want.


Jesus would never say anything that could be interpreted in such a way.
Because Jesus told us, those who make a habit of sinning do not know him. Which means they aren't in his grace.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

 

[Scott Downey]

New Creation in Christ people do not lose salvation.
Paul here on being reconciled to God is he is pleading with unsaved church members in Corinth to be reconciled with God.
Every church has some people who are unsaved.

2 Cor 5
For we know that if our earthly [a]house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as [c]a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

The Judgment Seat of Christ​

9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.

Be Reconciled to God​

12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[St. SteVen]

Familiar words.
"... it is by grace you have been saved... the gift of God..."

What is the nature of a "gift"?
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return. (hopefully, or it isn't free)
- Consequences for refusal would make it extortion.

Here's how it might look in human terms.

Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If the offer of "salvation" fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Familiar words.
"... it is by grace you have been saved... the gift of God..."

What is the nature of a "gift"?
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return. (hopefully, or it isn't free)
- Consequences for refusal would make it extortion.

Here's how it might look in human terms.

Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If the offer of "salvation" fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

[

as a parent, if I purchase my child a gift. and they reject that gift. They will not benefit from that gift.

As a God. if I purchase all mankind a gift. and they reject that gift. they will not benefit from that gift.


It is a gift because it is free. paid in full by the one who gave it.

But God will not force you to take it.. You have every right to refuse to receive his gift. and in doing so. reject its benefit.

If you want to deny God and live forever separated by him, that's on you. Not God.. God paid for your freedom. he did not reject you, you rejected him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen.

I can't imagine a born again Christian who would insist they're impermanently reprieved from their sinner status.
Which is what I see if anyone who claims Christ insist they can also throw his gift back at him.

I think much of the denial of Salvation being only what God says it is, is because skeptics and deniers don't know the meaning of Sovereignty,Dominion and Irrevocable.

And if we could release ourselves from God's eternal Salvation,where is it written? And where is the step by step process described in His word that details how we return back to our dead in sin state?

Why would any born again Christian insist they can go back by choice to being dead in their sins?

I think those who insist Jesus didn't die to seal our eternal Salvation covenant are actually unbelievers trying to wind up the faithful. Seriously.

Christians would never want to suffer the fate of damnation.

I think the apostle john points us to this.. in that he says we can know we have eternal life.. In that we can;t return to a life of sin. etc etc.

 

[St. SteVen]

as a parent, if I purchase my child a gift. and they reject that gift. They will not benefit from that gift.

As a God. if I purchas all mankind a gift. and they reject that gift. they will nto benefit from that gift.


It is a gift because it is free. paid in full by the one who gave it.

But God will nto force you to take it.. You have every right to refuse to recieve his gift. and in doing so. reject its benefit.

I'm familiar with that apologetic.
Those who receive the gift do so in response to extortion.
If there are consequences for refusing a gift, that is extortion.

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If the offer of "salvation" fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

If you want to deny God and live forever seperated by him, thats on you. Not God.. God paid for your freedom. he did not reject yuo, you rejected him

I'm familiar with this apologetic too. Blame the victim to absolve your definition of God.

[

 

[Behold]

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.

Salvation is available to anyone who will trust in Christ before they die.
Because its a "Gift'......its to be received......and never can it be earned.

 

[St. SteVen]

Salvation is available to anyone who will trust in Christ before they die.
Because its a "Gift'......its to be received......and never earned.

Why did Christ preach to the dead before His resurrection?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

[

 

[complete]

'For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed?
for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 6:20-23)

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:8-10)

 

[amigo de christo]

anyone preaching , teaching or even trying to imply a way around having TO BELEIVE ON JESUS
does the work of their father . I came for a few brief minutes to see some encouragement
but as usual st steven is up to his inclusiveness ways . How depressing . WE should have been preaching CHRIST
not trying to find a away around having TO BELIEVE ON HIM and TO CONFESS HIM .

 

[complete]

Why did Christ preach to the dead before His resurrection?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust,
that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached (heralded)
unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'
(1Pet. 3:18-20)

Hello @St. SteVen,

The spirits in prison were the angels which left their first estate and impregnated the daughters of Adam, in the days of Noah (Gen. 6:2 & 4). The Lord Jesus Christ being quickened by the Spirit went and proclaimed His victory over death and the grave.

* The spirit of life goes back to God Who gave it when the body dies, so there is no spirit in the place of the dead, or in grave-dom: It is back in God's hands.' Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.' (Eccl. 12:7)

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Behold]

Why did Christ preach to the dead before His resurrection?

Those "dead" are very specific.

= Those were OT Saints who prophecied of Him, and were waiting for Him in "paradise".. This is "Abraham's Bosom".