WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[Gary Mac]

There is nothing to discuss if you missed the point between the verses I posted

I didnt miss it at all. I understand perfectly your own ideas about it. The problem is you do not understand what it is to receive from God Himself the very same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 that you are supposed to receive that same knowledge in yourself.

ohn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods (plural)? (which is from Psalm 82:6)

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods (plural); and all of you are children (plurally) of the most High.

John 10:35 If he called them (plurally) gods (plural), unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:36 Say ye of him (singular) whom (singular) the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus quotes Pslam 82:6 concerning them (plurally) where it can easily be understood to be equally applied to him (singulary) as well as them (as being children / sons of God) in the context of "Ye are gods"

When Jesus could have (but he does not) quote Psalm 45:6-7 which would make it solely about himself (singularly) as the Son of God seeing as Psalm 45:6-7 is speaking only of the only begotten Son of God as Hebrews 1:3 likewise confirms.

Hebrews 1:3 But unto the Son (singular) he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Psalm 45:7 Thou (singularly) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee (singularly) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (plural).

So when they run off of "I and the Father are one" implying he is making himself God, he does not pull out Psalm 45:7 which shows God the Father addressing another as God (which applies to Jesus Christ). But Jesus rather takes the mentions of plural gods (in the context of his own claim, "I am the Son of God") and there is nothing they can say to that because its in their own law and Jesus points out it cannot be broken. I believe it was a great move on his part.

But you did not compare between the verses which adress only one (which is the only begotten of God as God, who is anointed above his fellows) verses Psalm 82:6 which makes their accusation void in light of the children of God (in the plural sense) adressed in that way. This is why I said you missed the point as you went on to declare yourself a son of God, Jesus directed the children (plural) of the most high verse back at them.

As far as dicussing it with you, not interested in your kind of back and forth.

Here is who Jesus said he was in God. you can edit from a mind that is carnal just as you did above, but if you would at least try and take it for face value without editing in your own ideas about it, as for me, there is noting at all that needs your editing or mine. He was very clear who he was in God. But not clear at all for you, that is why you keep making up all these excuse not to have the very same in you the One Jesus spoke of Who was in himself.

Now you can tell Jesus how wrong he was in who he said that he was in the Father.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.


John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 (KJV) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

What a novel idea, Be one in the Father as Jesus was one in Him. Equally yoked with Him. Jesus didnt find it robbery to be equal with God no more than anyone does who has received in us the very same One Jesus received in himself in Matt 3:16, and is exactly like Him and in His same image of Spirit that He is. We walk as He walks in His same light.

 

[Muna]

I didnt miss it at all.

Not interested

 

[ProDeo]

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

We walk as He walks in His same light.

Do tell how this works, you like Jesus hear from the Father ?

 

[Gary Mac]

Not interested

You never are in what Jesus had to say about who he was in his God who sent him.

 

[Gary Mac]

Do tell how this works, you like Jesus hear from the Father ?

Im more than happy to!

Everyone does who has met Him. And He is at your door knocking this day knocking and any man who opens that to Him He will come to you and sup with you, communicate, and be in you. Rev 3:20.

HGods word comes by God Himself, not what you read from a book. His word is not written on stone nor in ink, it is written in the hearts and minds of men who has met Him given by God Himself not what someone else says about Him.

Even Adam talked with Him and became like Him to know the difference from his carnal mind of man and Gods spiritual mind of Love. Gen 3;22. Abraham talked with Him. Moses talked with Jim,. Mary talked with Him, Jesus talked with Him, 120 in an upper room talked with Him. All of these met God and all today who has met Him the same -- born-again of God Himself -- talks with Him.

Most try and talk to Him instead with Him. and do not know how to listen to hear Him.

Jesus made the most very simple statement, but the most profound when he took his disciples on the mountain to pray, he said, Look with me,. He did not say look for me as most do putting their own words in Jesus mouth. They dont know how to communicate with God at all. And obviously that escape your knowledge for how to or you would not have made this remark.

But when you see Him as He is, and communication is established between you and Him, Ye shall be like Him as all of these we read of who met Him did. 1 John 3:2.

 

[Muna]

You never are in what Jesus had to say about who he was in his God who sent him.

I don't believe not being interested in having a less than honest conversation with you can be equated with me never being interested in what Jesus has to say.

See? It gets a little weird conversing with you.

 

[Waiting on him]

I don't believe not being interested in having a less than honest conversation with you can be equated with me never being interested in what Jesus has to say.

See? It gets a little weird conversing with you.

It’s okay.. the Pharisees couldn’t believe that the Spirit of God was in Jesus either, and they were far more religious than you.

They unlike you actually knew that Jesus was a man. Not God.

 

[Gary Mac]

I don't believe not being interested in having a less than honest conversation with you can be equated with me never being interested in what Jesus has to say.

See? It gets a little weird conversing with you.

Why because I only quote from Jesus who he said he was in God? Looks to me it is Jesus and His God that he conversed with, that you have a hard time conversing with. It isnt I who you have a problem with at all. it is Jesus himself in who he said he was in God that has you that you have that problem with.

 

[Muna]

It’s okay.. the Pharisees couldn’t believe that the Spirit of God was in Jesus either, and they were far more religious than you.

They unlike you actually knew that Jesus was a man. Not God.

What are you even talking about?
Why did I ask?

 

[Muna]

Why because I only quote from Jesus who he said he was in God? Looks to me it is Jesus and His God that he conversed with, that you have a hard time conversing with. It isnt I who you have a problem with at all. it is Jesus himself in who he said he was in God that has you that you have that problem with.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Muna]

Singular son of God? But God has many sons. Im one of them.

^^Gary^^ Your intial post to me is this, which shows you missed my point since my point was not even contradicting this but confirming children/ or sons in the plural in Psalms 82:6 which Jesus quoted to them in John 10:34.

Singular only begotten Son applies to Psalam 45:6 where the Son is called God by the Father confirmed by Hebrews 1:8

You missed it but when responding again, you backtrack as if you did not, and these conversations with you are a pain in the rear, and laboursome to continue with your lectures at scriptures, your testimonies about your self, posts that drone on about who knows what, thats why way back in post # what was it? I think #618 I didnt wnt to be bothered with discussion anything with you. Just not interested in the kind of back and forth you offer.

 

[ProDeo]

Even Adam talked with Him and became like Him to know the difference from his carnal mind of man and Gods spiritual mind of Love. Gen 3;22. Abraham talked with Him. Moses talked with Jim,. Mary talked with Him, Jesus talked with Him, 120 in an upper room talked with Him. All of these met God and all today who has met Him the same -- born-again of God Himself -- talks with Him.

Exactly Gary, being born again opens your spirit (and express wish) to communicate with God, learn, receive, grow.

Then on post 700 you replied on @Waiting on him

lol, it’s like reading the Gospels, and the religious dictators of his time couldn’t understand a word he was saying.

with : Exactly the very same here in this very forum.

How do you know?

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Was that the Father who told you, "Gary, write that down" ?

Just curious.

 

[JBO]

The answer is none of the above. And the meaning of this verse is very simple. It involves the correct interpretation of the little Greek word "kai" which has mistakenly been translated as "AND" in this verse.

"Kai" can have various meanings. It can be used as a conjunction meaning "in addition to" (as many translations mistakenly interpret it in this case), OR it can also be used in an explanatory sense, meaning "namely" or "even", which is the case in this John 3:5 verse. In other words, this verse can justifiably be translated as follows: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water, NAMELY (kai) the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This identifies the "water" as being the equivalent of the "Spirit".

Do we have other texts which also indicate that this is so? Yes, we do, and in the words of Christ Himself in John 7:38-39 as He addressed the multitude on the last day of the feast. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

The evidence that one has been born of the Spirit is the presence of the "rivers of living water" that flow from the individual.

"WATER" = "THE SPIRIT" They are one and the same thing in John 3:5 and also in John 7:38-39.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Jesus introduce water into the prescription in the manner that you suggest? It would serve no purpose to do that. It would only lead to confusion. The straightforward reading of the passage, given the introduction of John the Baptist, is that the water of John 3 is water baptism. That is even more apparent by the declaration that follows immediately in Chapter 4 concerning Jesus and His disciples (the twelve?) baptizing more disciples than John.

 

[Gary Mac]

I don't believe not being interested in having a less than honest conversation with you can be equated with me never being interested in what Jesus has to say.

See? It gets a little weird conversing with you.

Oh yes I do see clearly. When I read of Jesus of him trying to converse the same things with the Jews as to who he was in God and they should have the same from the same Father, it got extremely weird for them and look how extreme that got and how they treated him in that extremity, which lead to hatred. But that's OK I do understand just as Jesus understood them. His reply simply was, Father forgive them they know not what they do. In that I can identify with the same.

Understanding comes only by God Himself not mans own ideas about Him and that is where the conflicts start. These even tried to silence him by death simply because they didnt understand him either for the very same reason as you do me. Understanding come only by God Himself be your own mind.

For if you were of the same mind who was in Jesus, you would be saying amen instead of weird conversing from a peculiar person that you cannot relate to at all. For Gods children are peculiar to a carnal mind for sure. Proof is in your very post.

 

[Muna]

Oh yes I do see clearly.

Glad you think so

 

[Gary Mac]

Exactly Gary, being born again opens your spirit (and express wish) to communicate with God, learn, receive, grow.

Then on post 700 you replied on @Waiting on him



with : Exactly the very same here in this very forum.

How do you know?


John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Was that the Father who told you, "Gary, write that down" ?

Just curious.

It isnt hard to see who is like Jesus was in the Father and walk in it as Jesus walks in it, the one God sent to show us the way for what it is to be in the same God that Jesus was of and how to receive the same from the same God as he received his information from.

Their own words revels who they are, or are not, as Jesus was in God as God commands of us all that we be in His same image.

Vey few know what Gods image is. Do you?

 

[Gary Mac]

Glad you think so

Thank you, but I do not think so at all, I know so, comparing what you say with who Jesus said he was in God from what you say of him from your own understanding.

All that I can do is copy and paste who Jesus said he was in God and that you are supposed to be the very same. That is where the conflicts arise. Not with me, but with him in who he said he was in God and so should you.

 

[Muna]

@ Gary Mac, for the last time, you were quoting me in post # 689 where I am addressing Godsgrace (for the second time) concerning Post #676

Heres that original post (# 676) when I replied to her saying

To be fair here, when Jesus said,

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Psalm 82:6

John 10:35 If he called them (plurally) gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus was quoting to them Psalm 82:6 equating these two (and in the plural) as the same would apply

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Which ofcourse, is followed up by

Psalm 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

In post #678 GodsGrace asks me to clarify my point

To which I repied in brief as a follow up in post #680

Yeah, the point was you had used the Jews accusation against Jesus (who said he was the Son of God)
who did not quote to them the equally found in Psalm 45:6-7 "thy throne O God" as unto the singular Son of God as is shown us in Hebrews 1:8 but rather (to their accusation) he quoted Psalm 82:6 to them (plurally) which would equally apply as far as the children of God are called gods there.

To which you reply in post #689 completely missing it (so let me highlight it for you)

Singular son of God? But God has many sons. Im one of them.


The amount of effort it takes to get you to see the obvious in the verses posted feels pretty trollish and done on purpose so this is my final post to you and I will utilize the forums ignore feature and put you on ignore.

 

[ProDeo]

Vey few know what Gods image is. Do you?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

We already are created in God's image.

----

And you forgot to answer my question.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Was that the Father who told you, "Gary, write that down" ?

 

[Gary Mac]

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Yes Adam was created in Gods Spiritual image when he saw who God really is within himself and only then did he become in Gods same image to know the difference from a carnal man and a spiritual man that God treats man to be by the Spirit that He is. Abraham was create din Gods same age when GHod came to him and reveled that same knowledge as He sis in Adam, Moses, Mary, was created in Gods same image when He came to them and made them in His same Spiritual image. Jesus in Matt 3:16 was created in His same spiritual image by God Hisel, and after that Jesus was very clear that ye must be born again, created of Gods same Spirit with that same renewing of mind that only GHod creates man to be in His same image. 120 was created in His same image in an upper room and not before.

You say you are created in His same image, a man or a woman? But in reality, God kingdom does not come with observation as a man or woman, but is with you,, man or woman, or is supposed to be where you would be created in His same image, Luke 17:20-21,

Until you do become the pace He resides, you are not created in His same spiritual image that He is at all. You dont have a clue what that image is do you? You think it was a man instead.

We already are created in God's image.

Not until you are by God Himself change your whole disposition from a carnal mind to His spiritual mind. Even Adam became like God to know that difference, Gen 3:22.

----

And you forgot to answer my question.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Was that the Father who told you, "Gary, write that down" ?

What is to write down, Jesu was very clear he didnt seek his own ways either.

But if you have to have my input, it is the very same as Jesus was in the Father. had it, then you will see who I am in God as well. same applies to me. Jesus had it right for who we should be like he was in the father.