WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[GodsGrace]

You mean by his saying, " I and my Father are one."?

Yes.
Also, by Jesus saying He is the Son of Man referring to Daniel 7.
Also, He stated BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.
The exact wording could be debated, but that Jesus meant He was before Abraham cannot be denied.
AND,,,that it was HE in the burning bush.

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe I am not catching the argument correctly, you are not saying the Jesus is saying He is God the Father, in his oneness with His Father (I and the Father are one) for which they sought to accuse him of blasphemey and thus justifying the Jews accusation against him in making himself God (in that saying) when all he was saying was the is the Son of God and to wit, "the God was in Christ" (He in the Father and the Father in him).

You don't see that as incorrect do you?

Language is not easy.
The JWs also state, now, that Jesus is the Son of God.

What's important here is the belief that Jesus always existed..
NOT that He was created at some point.

Jesus and the Father are ONE BEING:

We will have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us,
but we are NOT one with God.
We do not have the nature of God...
we have the nature of a human being.

 

[Gary Mac]

Glad you think so

I really do not think so at all, only thinking that you do makes ways for errors.

Facts are facts -- Cant help it if you have the mind of Christ, anointed of God Himself with His same mind that God Himself renews the mind of, born again to think in His terms instead of you only thinking that you are correct.

Thinking what is the way without the manifestation of that new mind, only gets people in trouble in errors.

 

[Waiting on him]

How do you know?

Very simple. Read gospels, and read posts here. Jesus says I’m a Son of God,,,,, religious dictators say impossible. Here @Gary Mac says I’m a Son of God,,, religious dictators say impossible.

 

[Waiting on him]

Language is not easy.
The JWs also state, now, that Jesus is the Son of God.

What's important here is the belief that Jesus always existed..
NOT that He was created at some point.

Jesus and the Father are ONE BEING:

We will have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us,
but we are NOT one with God.
We do not have the nature of God...
we have the nature of a human being.

Jesus was born in the first century Mary being his mother, and Joseph was his father,,,, as scripture states.

 

[Waiting on him]

We already are created in God's image.

If that were the case Jesus wouldn’t be telling you to be born of God.

 

[Behold]

but we are NOT one with God.

The Christian is "one" with God., as that is what "born again" is describing.

This is Eternal Spiritual union with God that is restored by SALVATION...., and this is the reason that Jesus came here to die on The Cross..... = its to restore us into eternal spiritual union with God.......... that Adam lost for us all.

2nd Adam RESTORES to the Believer... what 1st Adam lost.

So, when we are born again by God's Holy Spirit.... we are born again into God's Holy Spirit,.... as that is "Spiritual Union" with God.

Jesus teaches this as :

"""""That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in US... that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.""""

New International Version
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in US so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New Living Translation
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

English Standard Version
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Berean Standard Bible
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Berean Literal Bible
that all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

King James Bible
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be One in Us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

New King James Version
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be One in US that the world may believe that You sent Me.

 

[Behold]

Thinking what is the way without the manifestation of that new mind, only gets people in trouble in errors.

The "mind" is not born again.
The "body" is not born again

Its the SPIRIT that is Born again, "Spiritually", that is the "new Creation" "in Christ"..

So, after we are born again we are to RENEW our Minds, or they will be carnal.

See, WE have to put on the "helmet of Salvation".... as.it does not put itself on us.
WE have to get our MIND renewed, or its not.

 

[Gary Mac]

@ Gary Mac, for the last time, you were quoting me in post # 689 where I am addressing Godsgrace (for the second time) concerning Post #676

Heres that original post (# 676) when I replied to her saying

To be fair here, when Jesus said,

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Psalm 82:6

John 10:35 If he called them (plurally) gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus was quoting to them Psalm 82:6 equating these two (and in the plural) as the same would apply

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Which ofcourse, is followed up by

Psalm 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

In post #678 GodsGrace asks me to clarify my point

To which I repied in brief as a follow up in post #680

Yeah, the point was you had used the Jews accusation against Jesus (who said he was the Son of God)
who did not quote to them the equally found in Psalm 45:6-7 "thy throne O God" as unto the singular Son of God as is shown us in Hebrews 1:8 but rather (to their accusation) he quoted Psalm 82:6 to them (plurally) which would equally apply as far as the children of God are called gods there.

To which you reply in post #689 completely missing it (so let me highlight it for you)

Singular son of God? But God has many sons. Im one of them.


The amount of effort it takes to get you to see the obvious in the verses posted feels pretty trollish and done on purpose so this is my final post to you and I will utilize the forums ignore feature and put you on ignore.

I do understand your insecurity in your doctrine that you would have to put someone on ignore because they might understand a bit more then you give credit for.

Singular son of God? Well if God had only one, child, a son, then that leaves you completely out of being born of God His son or daughter, doesnt it.

As for me, and Jesus said the same of himself, God is my Father, I am His child, His son. He has many children that are born of Him. But I do understand why you cant be, for to you God had only one, and I would guess that you are trying to adopt yourself in His family. And that was learned from Paul who evidently was not born of God himself and made laws for adoption instead of being born of God Himself to have His same disposition of mind, Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

‘Water baptism is for those who are already born again, saved.


Jesus is teaching Nicodemus how to become born again.


Jesus is not teaching Nicodemus water baptism.


Jesus uses natural birth to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

born of water = born of the flesh

and the Spirit = born of the Spirit

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 3:12

Great point JLB !
I just go back and forth on this.
I pondered that maybe water means baptism....
and the spirit means that Jesus will baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 3:11

I have always believed it was physical birth as you've stated...
Actually it still makes the most sense to me...

 

[Gary Mac]

The "mind" is not born again.

I agree, yours isnt for sure.

The "body" is not born again

Amen cannot be. Only once that of a woman born under the law just as Jesus was born son of man, but his mind was defiantly renewed, which he described as born again with the renewing of mind that comes only by God Himself.

But you are correct your mind defiantly has been renewed by God Himself.

Its the SPIRIT that is Born again, "Spiritually", that is the "new Creation" "in Christ"..

Yes Spirit denotes mind, knowledge, the thinking part of man that is not flesh. But your mind is defiantly flesh oriented without GHod same Mind. But as for me I have the same mind in me who was in Christ Jesus, born again of it just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16 by God Himself open in us that new heaven and earth that he lived in after Matt 3:16 and so do I this very day. It isnt the same as before that renewing of our mind by God Himself.

So, after we are born again we are to RENEW our Minds, or they will be carnal.

You cant renew your mind, you can obey God and receive from Him His same knowledge of Spirit, but He is the only one who can open up in you who He is and all of His heaven in you. Not even Jesus could escape that fact proven in Matt 3:16.

You are trying on your own just as most do and call it born again, which only spawns belief systems and the very reason we have do many beliefs systems called denominations.

See, WE have to put on the "helmet of Salvation".... as.it does not put itself on us.

Actually I had to go to God Himself and let Him open in me who He is and all of His heaven in me. SO did Jesus in Matt 3:16. We didnt pout on anything, all we did was obey and God did the work in us. And from that we went out and did His will instead of our own.

And the real truth is in John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

You are trying to do it from your own merit instead just as you stated. We have to do it. .

WE have to get our MIND renewed, or its not.

Now that is the truth and the only way is for God Himself to you and open it in you. It has been that way with God starting in Adam when He opened that knowledge in Adam, only then did Adam become like God to know that difference from self beliefs in carnality to the spiritual knowledge that only God can open in you. Gen 3;22.

Same thing happened in Abraham, same Spirit came to him. Same Spirit came to Moses and opened it in him, Same Spirit came to Mary and opened it in her, Same One came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opened it all in him, same One came to 120 and opened it in them, and the same One came to me and did the same, and all today who has received God as our own disposition

You said after you are born again then you have to renew your mind. That renewing by God Himself is that renewing. You are trying on your own ideas for what born again is without Gods input at all.

Do you even know what that new Spirit of mind is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was born in the first century Mary being his mother, and Joseph was his father,,,, as scripture states.

Agreed.
Jesus was born in the first Century.
Mary was His mother.
God was his father.

Who came over Mary?
The Holy Spirit or Joseph?

Luke 1:1-4
1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;
4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.


Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.


Jesus: God is Savior......
And in the OT GOD stated that He, Himself would be the Savior.



You can believe that Jesus was just a man,
but why call yourself a Christian?

Why do you come on these Forums and attempt to prove that Jesus was just a man?

 

[GodsGrace]

The Christian is "one" with God., as that is what "born again" is describing.

This is Eternal Spiritual union with God that is restored by SALVATION...., and this is the reason that Jesus came here to die on The Cross..... = its to restore us into eternal spiritual union with God.......... that Adam lost for us all.

2nd Adam RESTORES to the Believer... what 1st Adam lost.

So, when we are born again by God's Holy Spirit.... we are born again into God's Holy Spirit,.... as that is "Spiritual Union" with God.

Jesus teaches this as :

"""""That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in US... that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.""""

New International Version
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in US so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New Living Translation
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

English Standard Version
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Berean Standard Bible
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Berean Literal Bible
that all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

King James Bible
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be One in Us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

New King James Version
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be One in US that the world may believe that You sent Me.

THAT THEY MAY BE ONE IN US.

You know Behold...
Like when Jesus taught that we should all be of ONE MIND.
That we are ONE BODY.

But let me assure you Behold...
We are NOT one with God.
Unless we are all little gods just like the Mormons.
And even THEY are just LITTLE gods...
I do think there is only ONE ALMIGHTY GOD.

Yes sir.

 

[Gary Mac]

Jesus was born in the first century Mary being his mother, and Joseph was his father,,,, as scripture states.

SO very true. Thank you -- These do not study to know who actually was Jesus father. Joseph.

The earthly father of Yosef(Joseph), the husband of Mary, was Heli, it is told at Luke 3:23.

There is some confusion on this topic which you may be aware of. There is a mistranslation in modern Bibles from the Greek which includes the KJV, in the 1st chapter of Matthew, it mistranslates "father" to "husband".

Due to this simple mistranslation, people for years have been confused concerning the genealogies of the Messiah, Mary, and Joseph, and you can see many people making up a lot of stuff to try and feel better about the confusion. a man as a god.

This may have even helped cause some people to lose faith in the scriptures because of the modern Christians confusing this verse and making it look like the Gospels do not know the genealogies.

This mistranslation can be major because this is the very start of the gospels, and it can potentially lead people into thinking that it says the Messiah is not the son of David, when it's known that the Messiah would be from David's line. Also, the mistranslation causes a contradiction with Matthew 1:17.

Verse 17 states that there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, then from David until the Babylon captivity are 14 generations, and then from the Babylon captivity to the Messiah there are 14 generations;

Matthew 1:17 "So all the generations from Abraham to David are 14 generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are 14 generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Messiah are 14 generations"

This actually helps us confirm the mistranslation, and when the mistranslation is corrected, there is absolutely no contradiction in who Jesus was born of man, and divides that which is born of God that Jesus was born of in Matt 3:16. Not the same birth at all.

 

[Waiting on him]

It’s inarguably stated that Joseph is also referred to as Son of David

Agreed.
Jesus was born in the first Century.
Mary was His mother.
God was his father.

Who came over Mary?
The Holy Spirit or Joseph?

Luke 1:1-4
1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;
4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.


Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.


Jesus: God is Savior......
And in the OT GOD stated that He, Himself would be the Savior.



You can believe that Jesus was just a man,
but why call yourself a Christian?

Why do you come on these Forums and attempt to prove that Jesus was just a man?

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
— Matthew 1:24

It wasn’t Disney Land he took Mary too.

 

[Waiting on him]

You can believe that Jesus was just a man,
but why call yourself a Christian?

And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
— Acts 13:22-23

Take notice it is Joseph that is called Son of David. You don’t realize it in all this Roman Catholics fantasy and mythology. You are disqualifying Jesus Christ from fulfilling the prophecy of Old Testament.

Women don’t have seed, they ovulate.

 

[Muna]

Joseph was "begotten" by Jacob

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Joseph was also "the Son" of Heli

Luke 3:23 ...Joseph, which was "the son" of Heli,

Jesus relationship to Joseph it says,

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Jesus was both the Son of man and the Son of God, but he was conceived by the Holy Ghost

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

This is short and worth the watch on Heli and Jacob

 

[GodsGrace]

It’s inarguably stated that Joseph is also referred to as Son of David

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
— Matthew 1:24

It wasn’t Disney Land he took Mary too.

Sure.
But then?

Joseph took Mary as his wife.
Do you know what this means??
Mary could have been stoned to death if Joseph declared her as having committed adultery.
Joseph ACCEPTED Mary as his wife and believed his dream.
He believed that the baby was miraculously conceived.

Matthew 1:24-25
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 but kept * her a virgin * until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

 

[Waiting on him]

Joseph was "begotten" by Jacob

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Joseph was also "the Son" of Heli

Luke 3:23 ...Joseph, which was "the son" of Heli,

Jesus relationship to Joseph it says,

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Jesus was both the Son of man and the Son of God, but he was conceived by the Holy Ghost

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

This is short and worth the watch on Heli and Jacob

Should have also noted it was Nathen that should have succeeded David as king. Solomon wasn’t even supposed to bare the name he was given.

 

[Waiting on him]

Sure.
But then?

Joseph took Mary as his wife.
Do you know what this means??
Mary could have been stoned to death if Joseph declared her as having committed adultery.
Joseph ACCEPTED Mary as his wife and believed his dream.
He believed that the baby was miraculously conceived.

Matthew 1:24-25
24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 but kept * her a virgin * until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

I take note of the Old Testament to explain what is happening in the New Testament. Joseph TOOK Mary just as Boaz TOOK Ruth, same as Isaac TOOK Rebecca.

And Joseph Knew her not till Jesus was born.

Which means he only TOOK her once. Imagine that, a virgin conceived.