BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE

[Spiritual Israelite]

What contradiction?

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
While we’re at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord? Where’s the contradiction?

You say that we have to be in a body in order to be present with the Lord in heaven.

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
We walk by faith. Where is the contradiction?

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
We would rather be absent from the earthly body so we came be present with the Lord. Where is the contradiction?

The contradiction is that you think we need to have a body to be present with the Lord. Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is very simple and you still don't get it.

 

[IndianaRob]

You say that we have to be in a body in order to be present with the Lord in heaven.


The contradiction is that you think we need to have a body to be present with the Lord. Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is very simple and you still don't get it.

Why do you want to purposely mislead people? Are seriously going to tell me that you don’t understand that this verse is telling us that we have, NOT WILL HAVE, a heavenly body waiting for us when we leave this earthly body?

Conditional structure: If X (our earthly house were dissolved), then Y (we have a building of God).

• Verb tense: “have” is present tense, not future. Grammatically, it denotes current possession, not something merely to come later.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you want to purposely mislead people?

I don't want to do that and I'm not doing that. Don't mislead people by lying about me.

Are seriously going to tell me that you don’t understand that this verse is telling us that we have, NOT WILL HAVE, a heavenly body waiting for us when we leave this earthly body?

Are you seriously willing to contradict what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 which is that our bodies will not be changed into spiritual, heavenly bodies until the last trumpet sounds when our bodies will all be changed at the same time instead of each person's body being changed upon death as you believe? Obviously, the concept of interpreting scripture with scripture is lost on you.

 

[Behold]

You say that we have to be in a body in order to be present with the Lord in heaven.


The contradiction is that you think we need to have a body to be present with the Lord. Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is very simple and you still don't get it.

When the Rapture occurs some will be alive, so they will be with the Lord, also.

So, Paul's statement about "absent from the body"........is speaking about the "dead in Christ"........but its also referring to Himself in 2 Tim 4, where Paul understood that He was going to be "offered up"... (Maryty'rd)........and so, he knew that this would instantly place him "out of the body" and '"""present with the Lord."

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When the Rapture occurs some will be alive, so they will be with the Lord, also.

So, Paul's statement about "absent from the body"........is speaking about the "dead in Christ"........but its also referring to Himself in 2 Tim 4, where Paul understood that He was going to be "offered up"... (Maryty'rd)........and so, he knew that this would instantly place him "out of the body" and '"""present with the Lord."

Yes, the souls of the dead in Christ are in heaven now and Paul is one of them and they will be with Jesus when He comes (1 Thess 4:14). Besides what he wrote in 2 Timothy 4, in Philippians 1:21-24 he also wrote about how he knew he would be dying soon and talked about how he was torn between staying in the body for the benefit of those who needed him or departing his body and being with Christ instead. He concluded at that time that it was better for him to stay around a bit longer for those who needed him.

 

[Behold]

Yes, the souls of the dead in Christ are in heaven now and Paul is one of them and they will be with Jesus when He comes (1 Thess 4:14).

All the born again will be with Jesus when He comes.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don't want to do that and I'm not doing that. Don't mislead people by lying about me.


Are you seriously willing to contradict what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:42-54 which is that our bodies will not be changed into spiritual, heavenly bodies until the last trumpet sounds when our bodies will all be changed at the same time instead of each person's body being changed upon death as you believe? Obviously, the concept of interpreting scripture with scripture is lost on you.

I don’t know what to say. It’s right there I black and white. I would suggest praying about it.

 

[jaybird]

And the sect called the Essenes that existed in the days of John the Baptist DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE, just because they existed at the time of Christ's Apostles but are not mentioned in The Gospel Books. They were an monastic, ascetic group living in the desert, and their writings mention NOTHING about John the Baptist and his teaching. It's the OCCULT INITIATE FRATERNITIES that put out the FALSE idea that John the Baptist, and maybe even Mary or Jesus, were members of the Essene sect. And that false idea is in connection with what the pagan GNOSTICS believed, which many of their false doctrines have been picked up by today's SECRET SOCIETIES, like the Masonic Lodge, Rosicrucians, etc.

John was a leader with his own apostles, thats a sect, they were not pharisee, sadducee or zealot, what sect does that leave? plus the DSS writing describing their leader is a mirror image of John, to much to list.

The fact that you brought them up here, possibly suggests to me the OCCULT FRATERNITIES are what has influenced your opinions about The Bible and what God's Word actually teaches.

no like i said before, torture, burning and killing women and children, bad fruit, is what makes me come to such conclusions.

NO, the U.S. government IS DEFINITELY NOT OWNED by the wealthy elite. Haven't you realized yet that Donald Trump is presently the U.S. President and his administration has been going after and convicting the Leftist politicians of past Liberal administrations that WERE guilty of influence by the wealthy elite? You are out of touch with reality.

trump uses kids with cancer charities to steal money, the guy steals money from kids dying of cancer, what more needs to be said

NO, keeping goods in common is NOT Communism. And there is NO Bible passage support the theory of Communism. You obviously have NOT read anything about REAL Communist theory by Karl Marx, Engels, or Lenin.

keeping goods in common is communism

Wake up!

this one i find ironic, all this evidence presented to you, you proceed to make believe it does not exist, and then in an act of desperation tell me to wake up

still waiting on the witch and gnostic bad fruit examples

 

[Wish-it]

MORE AVOIDANCE! You have to. Your argument is in tatters.

Let's put your wild claims to the test and see who the real spiritualizers are and who the real literalists are. I put it to you it is the Premils who are the real spiritualizers and Amils who the real literalists!

I Thessalonians 5:2-3: “the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 declares: “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

1. Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
2. Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
3. Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
4. Do do you believe that Jesus is literally coming "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?
5. Do do you believe that the wicked shall literally "be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)?
6. What unregenerate man is excluded from the description of "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?
7. Do you believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
8. Do you believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
9. Do you believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
10. Do you believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
11. Do you believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

Pagan Gnosticism governed by Satan's host that has crept into certain so-called Christian denominations and/or Christian Cults, is still... the main enemies here on earth against Christ's Church. What are they actually about?

Yes, I literally do.
Why? Because I literally believe God created the earth in seven days.
That Jesus literally came in the flesh, and literally died for our sins.
And literally rose again and literally walked on earth with the disciples and others, then literally they watched as He disappeared into the clouds.
Plus He literally said He would return literally and rule with us for a 1000 years, to complete the 7 day creation plan. Our day of rest.
Hebrews 4.8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

 

[ScottA]

Paul was alive then so he worded it that way - he died expecting Jesus' return. We all do.

PAUL (GOD'S WORD) WAS NOT WRONG.

YOU ARE.

 

[WPM]

Yes, I literally do.
Why? Because I literally believe God created the earth in seven days.
That Jesus literally came in the flesh, and literally died for our sins.
And literally rose again and literally walked on earth with the disciples and others, then literally they watched as He disappeared into the clouds.
Plus He literally said He would return literally and rule with us for a 1000 years, to complete the 7 day creation plan. Our day of rest.
Hebrews 4.8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

These Scriptures forbid Premil. They make it impossible. The end is the end.

 

[Davy]

John was a leader with his own apostles, thats a sect, they were not pharisee, sadducee or zealot, what sect does that leave? plus the DSS writing describing their leader is a mirror image of John, to much to list.

You still... must have hard evidence to be able to claim John the Baptist was an Essene. Just because the occult initiate fraternities like the Masonic Lodge says so isn't good enough.

 

[Davy]

When the Rapture occurs some will be alive, so they will be with the Lord, also.

So, Paul's statement about "absent from the body"........is speaking about the "dead in Christ"........but its also referring to Himself in 2 Tim 4, where Paul understood that He was going to be "offered up"... (Maryty'rd)........and so, he knew that this would instantly place him "out of the body" and '"""present with the Lord."

What a bunch of gobbeldy-goop.

Apostle Paul was very clear in that 2 Cor.5 Chapter that we already have that other body dwelling inside our flesh that leaves if our flesh were suddenly dissolved.

 

[PS95]

Thanks for your OPINION, and that's all it is, and thanks for your NOT noticing how the rudeness usually begins by the other person directing at me first. I don't see much 'manners' here on this Forum, especially with those who just like to CHIME IN and give personal opinions against someone WITHOUT giving any evidence.

Thus about you then, I'd say you'd be anybody's dog that will hunt with them as long as they follow the traditions of men that you follow.

You're right that manners and love lack on this forum. I don't see the point of who started it- we should be above that. It's childish.
We all get annoyed at times and we have take our eyes off the Lord when we do that..
Teachers should be patient. I sure don't think of myself as a teacher but we should all be more patient with each other.
Yes some comments are downright rude and we should not ever get personal. I don't think that saying something is heresy is personal- being called names is personal and not ok.
I don't know why you say I follow the traditions of men? That's almost comical actually. You don't know me.

 

[Davy]

You're right that manners and love lack on this forum. I don't see the point of who started it- we should be above that. It's childish.

No, that's not the right attitude for those in Christ. A Christian forum is supposed to mean brethren 'in house', of Christ's Church, and not those outside the Church. With our own, we ARE... TO REBUKE for correction of the brethren. Apostle Paul even showed to do it OPENLY IN THE CHURCH when a believer errs so the rest of the congregation can learn.

1 Tim 5:20
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
KJV

Congregations in my area, like the Menonites, still do that very freely in their congregations. Their preachers openly embarrass a believer in their congregation that really messes up. Our preacher in the Church I was raised in would only speak harshly about the sin, showing it from Bible Scripture, while his eyes focused back and forth on the one guilty in the congregation. All one had to do was to look at where he was staring and you'd know who he was talking about.

 

[jaybird]

You still... must have hard evidence to be able to claim John the Baptist was an Essene. Just because the occult initiate fraternities like the Masonic Lodge says so isn't good enough.

like video footage, or an official letter signed and stamped by a roman council? you realize it was two thousand years ago right?
also what sect did he lead?
you have circumstantial evidence, just a few and i would agree, but there is a mountain, to much to list. the Essenes were known for prophesy, John was the greatest prophet, the teacher of rightesness is never named but when they describe him its the same as John, living in the wild, animal rags, eating grasshoppers and honey, etc etc. when Jesus talks to John in prison he gives him a list of credentials : hungry are fed, leapers leap, etc, the list is not found in the bible its found in the DSS theology writing.

 

[PS95]

PAUL (GOD'S WORD) WAS NOT WRONG.

YOU ARE.

Point taken on 2nd half of my sentence. I had not thought that through.
I stick by my belief that Paul wrote "we" because he and his readers were alive then and he was answering their question.
The apostles were no more insightful about when Jesus would return than we are now.
No one knows the day or hour and that included the apostles-- but
I am sure that Peter knew he would be martyred not raptured, and John knew that about Peter and others were told they would be killed. Paul had to have known that as well imho.
Of course Paul knew the resurrection not happened, and so he spoke about what had to occur first.- and those who were insisting the resurrection had come were heretics and NOT to believe it even if a letter supposedly from him came and said it did. Do you recall where that is in the bible? I couldn't find it.. He was so sure... that he denied a letter that could come in the future. That's telliing.

So-- The apostles knew they would be martyred and not raptured.
Did Paul include himself in that verse when he used we? I doubt it, but is there even a small possibility that he could have? Paul was guided by the Holy Spirit but he was till just a man. Did Paul know how or when he would die? Was it possible that Jesus could return before he died? idk What do you think?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, When you were younger, you girded yourself, and you walked where you desired. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you, and will carry you where you do not desire.” John 21:18
Paul knew-
“knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is soon, as indeed our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.” 2 Pet 1:14

John knew about Peter --
"But He (Jesus) said this signifying by what death he would glorify God." John 21:19

He told his disciples that they would be killed not raptured- (I do not hold the typical rapture view that many do today)

“Then they will deliver you up to affliction, and will KILL YOU, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.” Matt 24:9

“They will put you out of the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone killing will think to bear a service before God.” John 16:2

We know James was martyred (John's brother) Stephen, Paul, Peter.. etc
There is nothing about a rapture there. They were killed.

I think Paul was aware of all of that. Don't you? Peter was still alive when Paul wrote Thes 4..
Did he hold out hope that maybe the Lord could return before he was killed since he did not have particular knowledge about his own death, did he? idk maybe? I could be wrong, but how can we know for sure? Does this really matter?
What actually matters is did Jesus return when He was resurrected. NO. Did Jesus return before Paul died? NO.
Paul was also a martyr.

Thes. 4- IMO "we" was used because he and his church whom we was writing to were alive at the time.
This was a letter written to believers who were upset by those who lied to them. Did Paul have knowledge that his letter would be read to us in this age? I have no idea. I somehow doubt it.
He was given this by info directly the Lord, right? The Lord wanted "we" there..? So we will always be ready? That's how I see it.

 

[ScottA]

Point taken on 2nd half of my sentence. I had not thought that through.
I stick by my belief that Paul wrote "we" because he and his readers were alive then and he was answering their question.
The apostles were no more insightful about when Jesus would return than we are now.
No one knows the day or hour and that included the apostles-- but
I am sure that Peter knew he would be martyred not raptured, and John knew that about Peter and others were told they would be killed. Paul had to have known that as well imho.
Of course Paul knew the resurrection not happened, and so he spoke about what had to occur first.- and those who were insisting the resurrection had come were heretics and NOT to believe it even if a letter supposedly from him came and said it did. Do you recall where that is in the bible? I couldn't find it.. He was so sure... that he denied a letter that could come in the future. That's telliing.

So-- The apostles knew they would be martyred and not raptured.
Did Paul include himself in that verse when he used we? I doubt it, but is there even a small possibility that he could have? Paul was guided by the Holy Spirit but he was till just a man. Did Paul know how or when he would die? Was it possible that Jesus could return before he died? idk What do you think?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, When you were younger, you girded yourself, and you walked where you desired. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you, and will carry you where you do not desire.” John 21:18
Paul knew-
“knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is soon, as indeed our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.” 2 Pet 1:14

John knew about Peter --
"But He (Jesus) said this signifying by what death he would glorify God." John 21:19

He told his disciples that they would be killed not raptured- (I do not hold the typical rapture view that many do today)

“Then they will deliver you up to affliction, and will KILL YOU, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.” Matt 24:9

“They will put you out of the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone killing will think to bear a service before God.” John 16:2

We know James was martyred (John's brother) Stephen, Paul, Peter.. etc
There is nothing about a rapture there. They were killed.

I think Paul was aware of all of that. Don't you? Peter was still alive when Paul wrote Thes 4..
Did he hold out hope that maybe the Lord could return before he was killed since he did not have particular knowledge about his own death, did he? idk maybe? I could be wrong, but how can we know for sure? Does this really matter?
What actually matters is did Jesus return when He was resurrected. NO. Did Jesus return before Paul died? NO.
Paul was also a martyr.

Thes. 4- IMO "we" was used because he and his church whom we was writing to were alive at the time.
This was a letter written to believers who were upset by those who lied to them. Did Paul have knowledge that his letter would be read to us in this age? I have no idea. I somehow doubt it.
He was given this by info directly the Lord, right? The Lord wanted "we" there..? So we will always be ready? That's how I see it.

Thanks for clarifying, sorry for being so stern. Good comments. I will have to reply further, later.

 

[ScottA]

Point taken on 2nd half of my sentence. I had not thought that through.
I stick by my belief that Paul wrote "we" because he and his readers were alive then and he was answering their question.
The apostles were no more insightful about when Jesus would return than we are now.
No one knows the day or hour and that included the apostles-- but
I am sure that Peter knew he would be martyred not raptured, and John knew that about Peter and others were told they would be killed. Paul had to have known that as well imho.
Of course Paul knew the resurrection not happened, and so he spoke about what had to occur first.- and those who were insisting the resurrection had come were heretics and NOT to believe it even if a letter supposedly from him came and said it did. Do you recall where that is in the bible? I couldn't find it.. He was so sure... that he denied a letter that could come in the future. That's telliing.

So-- The apostles knew they would be martyred and not raptured.
Did Paul include himself in that verse when he used we? I doubt it, but is there even a small possibility that he could have? Paul was guided by the Holy Spirit but he was till just a man. Did Paul know how or when he would die? Was it possible that Jesus could return before he died? idk What do you think?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, When you were younger, you girded yourself, and you walked where you desired. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you, and will carry you where you do not desire.” John 21:18
Paul knew-
“knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is soon, as indeed our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.” 2 Pet 1:14

John knew about Peter --
"But He (Jesus) said this signifying by what death he would glorify God." John 21:19

He told his disciples that they would be killed not raptured- (I do not hold the typical rapture view that many do today)

“Then they will deliver you up to affliction, and will KILL YOU, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.” Matt 24:9

“They will put you out of the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone killing will think to bear a service before God.” John 16:2

We know James was martyred (John's brother) Stephen, Paul, Peter.. etc
There is nothing about a rapture there. They were killed.

I think Paul was aware of all of that. Don't you? Peter was still alive when Paul wrote Thes 4..
Did he hold out hope that maybe the Lord could return before he was killed since he did not have particular knowledge about his own death, did he? idk maybe? I could be wrong, but how can we know for sure? Does this really matter?
What actually matters is did Jesus return when He was resurrected. NO. Did Jesus return before Paul died? NO.
Paul was also a martyr.

Thes. 4- IMO "we" was used because he and his church whom we was writing to were alive at the time.
This was a letter written to believers who were upset by those who lied to them. Did Paul have knowledge that his letter would be read to us in this age? I have no idea. I somehow doubt it.
He was given this by info directly the Lord, right? The Lord wanted "we" there..? So we will always be ready? That's how I see it.

Indeed, the apostles of that time (including Paul) were only given what was necessary and pertinent to the beginning and growth of the church. The scriptures then tell us that those things sealed and not to be revealed until the end, and the "finish" of the church age would not come until the times of the gentiles were fulfilled--specifically, when the seventh angel is about to sound.

And you are correct about Paul for the most part. He only knew enough to say things even he did not fully understand--as he explained, because things were under restraint by "He who restrains...until He is taken out of the way." Even so, Paul was given lots of insight--but as "through a glass dimly." His insight was so sketchy, some of it he confessed not knowing, saying, "—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows."

But that time of revealing was to come, and has come.

As for the return of Christ before or after Paul died--He is not to be found or seen among the dead--the world sees Him no more. As He said, regarding His returning in the glory of the Father, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation." Instead, as He further explained, His return would not be as expected, but in this way: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Which then--whether Paul actually understood or the Holy Spirit was speaking and he too did not fully understand--his saying "we who are alive and remain" does make for a good description of those whom Christ had/has come [again] into with new life--not dead in the flesh--but alive in Christ in God, even while remaining in the world until the body of flesh passes.

But do not think it a theory or a mere belief or hope, for I speak what I know and testify what I have seen according to the promise and the finish, given to me.

 

[PS95]

No, that's not the right attitude for those in Christ. A Christian forum is supposed to mean brethren 'in house', of Christ's Church, and not those outside the Church. With our own, we ARE... TO REBUKE for correction of the brethren. Apostle Paul even showed to do it OPENLY IN THE CHURCH when a believer errs so the rest of the congregation can learn.

1 Tim 5:20
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
KJV

Congregations in my area, like the Menonites, still do that very freely in their congregations. Their preachers openly embarrass a believer in their congregation that really messes up. Our preacher in the Church I was raised in would only speak harshly about the sin, showing it from Bible Scripture, while his eyes focused back and forth on the one guilty in the congregation. All one had to do was to look at where he was staring and you'd know who he was talking about.

I never said we can't rebuke. I said we don't need to be rude and hit people personally. Attack the belief not the person. You were pointing out how someone else starts it.. as a defense to be rude. That's childish--"he did it first!!" lol come on...
A gentle answer turns away wrath.. is how we ought to view it. Not always so easy I admit that.
You disagree because you grew up Mennonite? Are you still? I know many- the plain dressed ones- I know they can vary. I think they are old order. They I know are friendly enough, but believe their church is the only true one.. due to plain clothing, and so there's that nonsense. One I know is a staunch flat earther - it's like an obsession.
As to your verse- yes, but that's unrepentant sin- not a different view on eschatology.
Maybe you have a different gauge for who is a believer than I do. I don't believe that eschatology is a determining factor.
It can be an indicator, but only if the rest of what they believe is messed up.
How I see it- when it comes to the stuff you guys tend to argue about and the people that you debate- they are your brothers and sisters in Christ- so we all ought to be more kind when we disagree on eschatology. Just my opinion.
You are not arguing against wolves, false prophets, deceivers, and Pharisees. ...

Look at how angry I get at JWs- I have been told several times to show Jws love by people here. I struggle with that because what they teach is antichrist, and you can have all the love in the world and it will not impress a jw. I have 9 Jws in my family. They are not just some other denomination that also happens to hate the trinity- this is a mind control cult who denies that Jesus' blood is the only payment for our sins. They have the audacity to come here and lie trying to slither in amongst Christians (who they call antichrists) incognito looking to sew doubt and ultimately convert.
Their eschatology is insanely ridiculous as a direct result of that lie about paying for sins. I don't think I have attacked any of them personally- but have stated that they come here purposefully to lie- because they do. People have no clue what they really teach!. I am not going to be loving to that behavior. Nor will I be loving about false prophecies.. the list of things to rebuke and expose is endless with them. Yet-- yes I am told to be nice by people who if they actually understood that religion would also be angry.
They destroy people wholesale- I wont kiss up. I will expose them and document it. When they lie I will call them out. How did Jesus and Paul confront the liars who seek to knock our faith and hurt us? Did you know Jws teach that they are locusts of Rev here to HARM Christians because you don't have the seal of HS?
It just can not be compared to about how I speak to them- and how we are to speak to other believers.
Sorry for the rant. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in the world who understands the evil of the JW religion.
I wish that experience on no one.

,