Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I agree. Setting expectations in a relationship is key. That involves some kind of negotiation. In OT times, that was done between the groom and the bride's father, but it should probably involve the bride!
The Wrath of God - How is it love?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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pandaflower
Well-Known Member
If we accept what is said of God,he's Sovereign over his creation,he has Dominion over his creation,then there can only be the will of Omniscient,Omnipresent, God.
Even our daily choices are in God's control.
Proverbs 16:9
We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps.
Some try to remove God's responsibility in sovereignty.
They say that people send themselves to hell. (not God)
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pandaflower
Well-Known Member
True.
There are those who say Jesus was just a human. They're wrong too.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
God does not control us if we have free will.....we choose to obey God, and if we obey him, we will have his blessing and approval. To willfully disobey him is also a choice, and will incur his displeasure and punishment. We have no reasonable excuse to disobey him, which is why we are in this mess in the first place....our first parents were tempted into disobedience, which is what caused death......”the wages of sin is death”...so with no sin, there would have been no death either, and no reason for Jesus to be sent to offer his life for us....the domino effect. It all starts with the first one to fall....
He does...but only if we chose to walk in the way he tells us to. Our steps are entirely our own decision.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Short answer. Yes. Because Jesus knew it was to come and asked if it be the Father's will,to remove that cup from him.
But,he didn't.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Is it, because if the devil and Adam and his wife did not have free will, they could not have made the decision to sin. To sin was to disobey God.....and all three did just that. The TKGE was one of two trees of significance in the garden.....one was death dealing and the other was life giving.....by their own choices, they chose death by their wilful disobedience. God was not responsible for their choices.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
On deeper reflection, what was “the cup” that Jesus wanted to be removed? It wasn’t his death or even the fact that he would suffer, but it was more about the reason for his execution...he would die as a blasphemer, which was almost more than he could bear......but God had allowed the devil to do his best to steer his beloved son away from his sacrificial course.....and his love for mankind ensured that he would carry out his mission, but at this last moment when he realised that the charge of blasphemy had been upheld in the eyes of the Jewish people, it brought him to tears, begging that he not be forced to drink a cup he could not bear.
He saw the hatred that the Pharisees had whipped up against him and his disciples when he was brought before Pilate, who appeared to want to dismiss those charges as groundless, especially when they wanted the death penalty. He found Jesus not guilty of any charge under Roman Law, but the Jews had their own law....a law that they had no authority to carry out. But this did not stop them....this violent mob resorted to threats of reporting Pilate to Caesar for treason (punishable by death) forcing Pilate to rescind his decision and hand Jesus over to the soldiers for execution, placing his own life ahead of the innocent man before him. He even threw in a painful flogging to placate them. But Jesus put his own will in the background and obeyed his Father, despite the awful pain he felt in dying this way. Satan made sure that it was as emotionally painful as it was physically.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Jesus was murdered by wicked men at the behest of demons.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
So I conclude from your answer, because God needs blood before he can forgive he's prepared and does have Jesus murdered....all in the name of love for humanity?
If this is your view of the character of God, it is not a God I would trust let alone be drawn to. It is more a description of a Devil masquerading as a god men invent.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Quiet, there is much Scripture that speaks to it being God’s will that Christ died in precisely the manner he did. Are you perhaps overlooking something about Him that would help you reconcile this in your mind?
Behold
Well-Known Member
God's eternal Mercy is extended as The Cross of Christ.
All unbelievers are currently Damned..
John 3:36
Salvation removes Damnation .....and that is why its called being "SAVED"
"SAVED" from John 3:36
"SAVED" from Damnation.
"SAVED from going to Hell.
= "Only JESUS SAVES", and you can only be saved, while you are alive.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Agree.
MN has Freewill
God IS Just.
A man who desires God… God will respond and put things in the man’s path to direct him.
A man who vehemently wants nothing to do with God…God will respond.
It’s called hardening the mans Heart and giving that man over to a reprobate mind, to continue Against God.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
How long, Jane, will you turn away from the wisdom of God? Remember the words: ‘Not my will, but Yours be done.’ It was not some evil supernatural figure, never once mentioned in the crucifixion account but Christ himself submitting to the Father’s will.
Someone did a real number on you Jane! and I pray God will right these wrongs soon
And the reason He agonized over the cup was the reality of being separated from His Father—something he had never experienced in all his 33 years!
How do we know this?
John 20:17, after His resurrection: “I am ascending to my Father (his heart's desire!) and your Father, to my God and your God.”
It was the total cessation of life and not having his Father's love and Spirit in him which he feared most.
Hebrews 5:7, "In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence." (ESV)
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
A profound insight into the wrath of God is found in Genesis 6, where humanity’s moral corruption had marred God’s creation. In response, Yahweh, like a wise Master-Potter, prepared to destroy the flawed vessel and fashion a new one from another lump of clay (Jer. 18:1–10; 19:1–2, 10–11). The statement in Genesis 6:12–13 is echoed in a significant way in Revelation 11:18: “The nations raged, but your wrath has come, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.” In this light, the impending crisis of the last days serves as an antitype of the judgment seen in Noah’s time.
It (love) is expressed in His righteous indignation, driven by His love for both His creation and His people.
It (love) is expressed in His righteous indignation, driven by His love for both His creation and His people.
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
pandaflower
Well-Known Member
Well, I read your opinion of the crucifixion of Jesus.
And since you clearly know nothing about the Old Testament,nor the Gospel, I shall leave you to your now obvious POE undertaking here.
I'll be amazed ,or maybe not considering antisemitic's are still aboard, if you are not disciplined by the rules or banned outright.
You said earlier you can assure me you've read the old testament.
You just proved you were not truthful there either.
Wow! Seriously.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
We shouldn't be concerned - the corner stone was cut without hands!
Daniel 2:34–35 You saw a stone… cut out by no human hand, which struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and broke them to pieces.
Some attribute the crucifixion to man's hands while others see the divine hand.
Having eyes to see is a blessing of the few.
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