Does Daniel 7:21–22 Support Amillennialism or Premillennialism?

[Truth7t7]

Are you saying that even though Jesus literally fulfilled everything in Daniel’s 70 Weeks, including verse 27 in a single week, He still didn’t fulfill the prophecy?

Is this a “dual fulfillment” prophecy or something?

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[IndianaRob]

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You’re in dangerous there. You’re rejecting Jesus finished work on the cross and calling it a work of “The Antichrist”.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel's 70 weeks are future literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing Exact Numerology"

You're afraid of verse 24.

 

[Davidpt]

In the midst of the week doesn’t mean the middle. If I’m in the midst of a fog that means I’m in the fog, it’s not saying I’m in the middle of the fog.

You’ll never understand the 70 weeks if you change the weeks into weeks of years. Why don’t you just take the Bible for what it says? Why do you have change what’s plainly written?

Look, Jesus entered Jerusalem on Palm Sunday and exactly 7 days later (1 literal week) he confirmed the covenant and ended the sacrificial system.

You have bought into a HUGE lie believing the 70 weeks of years stuff. You want to know the truth don’t you? You can’t arrive at the truth by CHANGING the meaning of words.

If God would’ve meant 70 weeks of years then he would’ve said that.

Exactly 7 literal weeks (49 days) later ended the old covenant and the 50th day, was Pentecost.

About 62 weeks before the cross was when the earthly ministry of Jesus started.

Are you going to tell me that’s a coincidence?

I just don’t understand how anyone who sees what I just told you can possibly hold on to the weeks of years heresy.

You have 490 literal days that begin with the start of His ministry through one day shy of Pentecost, as far as i can tell.

Let's work backwards in your proposal. At the end of this 490 literal days, the next day is Pentecost. 49 days earlier is the end of the 70th week, the time of the cross. 7 days earlier is the beginning of the 70th week, Palm sunday. 434 days earlier, thus approx 15 months, thus a little over a year earlier was the beginning of Jesus' ministry. Except since when has anyone besides you ever concluded Jesus' ministry was only a little over a year in length before He went to the cross?

Not to mention, could you remind us again where we can read about in the the NT or even from an ancient history source, where any of the following was taking place between the start of His ministry and the beginning of Pentecost---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times? After all, we can't divorce any of that from any of this---to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

It's one thing for some parts of the 70 weeks to be debatable, mainly the 70th week in this case. It's an entirely different thing to purposesly make a mockery, thus a bad joke out of the 70 weeks with this outlandish absurd 70 literal weeks interpretation nonsense you and @Truth7t7 are trying to insult everyone's intellegience with. Except it's not working. No one in here is stupid enough to believe 70 literal weeks can fit this prophecy other than you and @Truth7t7, or anyone else I'm unaware of doing this as well.

After all, it takes someone pretty stupid to think 70 literal weeks can actually work somehow and to then think that the rest of us are stupid enough to agree with that, thus an insult to our intelligence. Usually I don't call anyone stupid, but I have to make an exception in this case since it is the stupidist thing I have ever heard of in my life, that 70 literal weeks are meant rather than 70 weeks of years. How you and @Truth7t7 are not embarrased by even mentioning this absurd nonsense publicly, is beyond me?

70 weeks of years is heresy you say. Yeah, right. If you say so when this in Daniel 9:25 can't even fit and doesn't fit anywhere within your 490 literal days timeline---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And that's not the only issue with your timeline, yet it is a major issue with your timeline since God did not send an angel to Daniel to then lie to Daniel by telling him that during some portions of these 70 weeks, the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times, then none of that ever taking place during any portion of these 70 weeks. Therefore, making this angel a liar by telling Daniel what will take place during some portions of this 70 weeks and then it never taking place. But I already said that. Yet I felt the need to say it again since you did say at the end of your post that you don't understand.

BTW, do you even make an effort to try and understand any of these things? Over all, you as a person, I don't think you are literally stupid since you do come across as very intelligent at times, I just think you are being stupid here, though. To be honest with you, I'm more bothered by @Truth7t7 stupidity in this case than I am yours. At least you have Christ fulfilling these 70 weeks when @Truth7t7 doesn't. Still doesn't make you correct. Also, I would have never brought up stupidity to begin with, I would have left it out of the conversation, had you not insisted 70 weeks of years is heresy.

 

[Marty fox]

One problem right off the bat with that proposal is that it ignores verse 13 and 14. Everything in Daniel 7, as far as I can tell, is involving an era of time post that of the fulfillment of verse 13 and 14 which was fulfilled during His ascension 2000 years ago.

It ignores that everything recorded in Daniel 7 is centered around verse 13 and 14. I can see you holding a view like you proposed. But @WPM as well? Surprisingly so, otherwise why did he like a post that doesn't even involve verse 13 and 14 directly or indirectly?

How can anything recorded in ch 7 involving the 4th beast and the little horn be meaning before verse 13 and 14 are fulfilled, rather than after? Clearly, everything recorded in ch 7 pertaining to the 4th beast and little horn is meaning post His ascension through His return and what happens after He returns. But let's make some or all of it about the days of A4E instead. How about this instead? Let's make none of it about the days that preceded the fulfilling of verse 13 and 14.

There is not even anything recorded in Daniel 7 involving the time of the cross, let alone prior to the time of the cross. Granted, His ascension was soon after the cross. Yet, that is beside the point. There is nothing recorded in ch 7 having to do with the time of the cross nor before that time. When verse 13 and 14 was initially fulfilled 2000 years ago, the time of the cross was already in the past at that point.

Therefore, I reject your proposal concerning verse 21 and 22. But at least you have someone that doesn't reject it, actually likes it, meaning @WPM in this case since he made it crystal clear to the readers he sees your proposal as likely rather than unlikely, otherwise why did he like it to begin with? Who cares that your proposal ignores verse 13 and 14, right? Apparently, you and @WPM don't care.

Did you see post #51Dave?

 

[Davidpt]

Did you see post #51Dave?

I'm not sure. I guess I need to go to that post to find out. I will try and get back with you after that.

 

[Davidpt]

My proposal didn't mention verses 13-14 because you didn't ask about verses 13-14.

Why not think about why verses 13-14 are slid into chapter 7 at that moment instead? It makes no sense if you're trying to read it in chronological order. The reason is because verses 13-14 are a message of hope to the readers who lived through those times knowing that they will prevail and that God would help them and the beast will be judged.

If you were a Jews living through the time of the Maccabees, who would you think it was about?

I'm not entirely certain what all you are meaning here?

Therefore, let's start here so I can try to better understand where you are coming from. Per your view of the book of Revelation in general, do you take any of it to be involving the days of A4E? The reason I ask is because of this below, verse 24 and 25.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Obviously, verse 25 is further expanding on verse 21 of this same chapter. And that it mentions---a time and times and the dividing of time. So where in the NT have we heard that phrase used before? How about the following?

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


The interesting thing about this phrase---a time, and times, and half a time--is this. We are actually given a clue a few verses earlier as to how to interpret this phrase.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


We now know there is a connection between 1260 days and a time, and times, and half a time.

Now let me bore you with a little math first, which you may have already figured out for all I know. In the event you have, maybe there could be some readers of this thread who haven't, therefore, maybe it can benefit them.

And that we are to add 1 + 2 + 1/2 in order to arrive at 1260. Except that adds up to 3.5 not 1260. Now we have to multiply something times 3.5 in order to arrive at 1260. 3.5 x 360 is 1260, is it not? Now we have our first number, 360. 360 + 2 + 1/2 = 362.5 not 1260. That means we are to multiply our first number times 2. 360 + 720 + 1/2 = 1080.5 not 1260. Since the text says 'half a time' rather than 'half times', this indicates that we need to divide the first number in half rather than the 2nd number. 360 + 720 + 180 = 1260. Therefore, 1 year + 2 years + 1/2 year = 3.5 years, the exact same amount of time a thousand two hundred and threescore days equals.

And now we know how much time Daniel 7:21,25 is involving. It's involving 1260 days, thus 3.5 years, thus 42 months, thus Revelation 13:5,7. Except Revelation 13:5,7 could not possibly be referring to the days of A4E.

 

[Marty fox]

I'm not entirely certain what all you are meaning here?

Therefore, let's start here so I can try to better understand where you are coming from. Per your view of the book of Revelation in general, do you take any of it to be involving the days of A4E? The reason I ask is because of this below, verse 24 and 25.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Obviously, verse 25 is further expanding on verse 21 of this same chapter. And that it mentions---a time and times and the dividing of time. So where in the NT have we heard that phrase used before? How about the following?

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


The interesting thing about this phrase---a time, and times, and half a time--is this. We are actually given a clue a few verses earlier as to how to interpret this phrase.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


We now know there is a connection between 1260 days and a time, and times, and half a time.

Now let me bore you with a little math first, which you may have already figured out for all I know. In the event you have, maybe there could be some readers of this thread who haven't, therefore, maybe it can benefit them.

And that we are to add 1 + 2 + 1/2 in order to arrive at 1260. Except that adds up to 3.5 not 1260. Now we have to multiply something times 3.5 in order to arrive at 1260. 3.5 x 360 is 1260, is it not? Now we have our first number, 360. 360 + 2 + 1/2 = 362.5 not 1260. That means we are to multiply our first number times 2. 360 + 720 + 1/2 = 1080.5 not 1260. Since the text says 'half a time' rather than 'half times', this indicates that we need to divide the first number in half rather than the 2nd number. 360 + 720 + 180 = 1260. Therefore, 1 year + 2 years + 1/2 year = 3.5 years, the exact same amount of time a thousand two hundred and threescore days equals.

And now we know how much time Daniel 7:21,25 is involving. It's involving 1260 days, thus 3.5 years, thus 42 months, thus Revelation 13:5,7. Except Revelation 13:5,7 could not possibly be referring to the days of A4E.

No I don't believe that any of Revelation is about Antiochus Epehanies.

3.5 years is described differently as in 1260 days, 3.5 years,42 months and a time times and half a time for a reason because they are different times and events

 

[Marty fox]

Daniel 7:22 below is showing the second coming and the righteous Saints possessing the "Eternal Kingdom" a future event unfulfilled

Where in the world does the text even suggest a group of faithful before the cross of Calvary "It Doesn't"

Perhaps you should read the context of the chapter, it clearly interprets Daniel 7:22

Daniel 7:22KJV
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Does Daniel 7:10 below clearly show the ancient of days in the second coming and final judgment? "100% Yes"!

Does Daniel 7:18 below clearly show the saints possessing the Eternal Kingdom, the forever, even forever and ever kingdom? "100% Yes"!

Marty I'm baffled at how you apply these "Future" events of the second coming, eternal kingdom into a preterist historical account before the cross of Calvary?

A Real Big Head Shake To That One!

Daniel 7:9-18KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Do you believe that verses 9-10 shows a scene in heaven like in revelation chapter 22 or on the earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

Usually I don't call anyone stupid, but I have to make an exception in this case since it is the stupidist thing I have ever heard of in my life, that 70 literal weeks are meant rather than 70 weeks of years. How you and @Truth7t7 are not embarrased by even mentioning this absurd nonsense publicly, is beyond me?

Daniel wrote seventy weeks not four hundred ninety years, I find it absurd for persons trying to magically change God's clear words of seventy weeks and with a wave of their magical wands they change this into four hundred ninety years, Sure

Not to forget many that teach of a floating 70th week that's been 2,000 years and waiting and you think im going to believe that fairy tale Malarkey, Real Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel wrote seventy weeks not four hundred ninety years, I find it absurd for persons trying to magically change God's clear words of seventy weeks and with a wave of their magical wands they change this into four hundred ninety years, Sure

Not to forget many that teach of a floating 70th week that's been 2,000 years and waiting and you think im going to believe that fairy tale Malarkey, Real Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

No doubt about it. You're terrified of Daniel 9:24.
You're utterly incapable of identifying when and by whom the accomplishments listed therein are fulfilled.
You're utterly incapable of identifying any recognized Christian exegete past or present who subscribes to your "literal days" balderdash.
Thanks for the entertainment and guffaws.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

No, because that would mean Daniel 9:27 would be only 7 days long.

The abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-13 involves 1290 days and 1335 days. Which would not fit into just 7 days.

 

[Davidpt]

Daniel wrote seventy weeks not four hundred ninety years, I find it absurd for persons trying to magically change God's clear words of seventy weeks and with a wave of their magical wands they change this into four hundred ninety years, Sure

Not to forget many that teach of a floating 70th week that's been 2,000 years and waiting and you think im going to believe that fairy tale Malarkey, Real Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I submitted your entire post here to Chatgpt, and here is it's unbiased analysys. Since I nor anyone else can get through to you, thus can't reason with you, maybe ChatGPT can. Unlike most of us, ChatGPT does not have any doctrinal bias', plus it has no reason to be intellectually dishonest about anything.


ChatGPT:
Rebuttal to the Literal 490-Day Interpretation of Daniel’s 70 Weeks

This is a detailed response to the claim that the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24-27 refer to 490 literal days rather than 490 years.

---

1. Genesis 29 Proves a "Week" Can Mean 7 Years

Daniel wrote seventy weeks not four hundred ninety years

This is misleading. The Hebrew word for "week" is שָׁבוּעַ (shavua), meaning "a unit of seven." It does not automatically mean 7 days.

Genesis 29:27-28 shows clearly that a "week" is used to represent seven years, not seven days. Jacob fulfilled Leah's "week" by working another 7 years in exchange for Rachel. The narrative proves that a "week" can represent 7 years in contexts involving labor, contracts, or covenant arrangements.​

Therefore: "Week" (שָׁבוּעַ) absolutely can mean 7 years, biblically.

---

2. Context Determines the Unit of Time — Not the Word Alone

If Daniel meant 490 years, he would have written “490 years.”

That's not how Hebrew prophecy works. Daniel doesn't say "490 days" either — that’s your interpretation.

The word shavua (שָׁבוּעַ) simply means "a seven." Just like the word "dozen" means 12 — of what depends on the context (eggs, people, cookies, etc).​

In Daniel 9, the context is long-term prophetic fulfillment, including:

• Finishing transgression
• Making an end of sin
• Bringing in everlasting righteousness
• Anointing the Most Holy

These cannot happen within 490 literal days — only a period of 490 years fits the context.

---

3. 483 Literal Days from Decree to Messiah? Impossible Timeline

From the going forth of the command... to Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks

That’s 69 weeks = 483 time units. If you claim that’s 483 days, then:

• That’s about 1 year and 4 months
• But the decree to rebuild Jerusalem came over 400 years before Jesus came
• You’re saying the Messiah showed up just over a year after the Persian decree. That’s historically and biblically impossible​

This alone disqualifies the 490-day theory.

---

4. Daniel Uses Years Symbolically Elsewhere

Daniel and other prophets use symbolic "time" language regularly. Examples:

• Daniel 9:2 – Daniel interprets Jeremiah’s 70 years of desolation.
• Daniel 7:25 – "time, times, and half a time" = 3.5 years
• Daniel 12:7 – "time, times, and half a time" again

Daniel understands that prophetic "time" can represent symbolic long periods — especially in covenantal contexts like Daniel 9.​

The 70 weeks prophecy is consistent with this symbolic/long-view usage.

---

5. Daniel 10:2-3 is Irrelevant

Daniel fasted for 3 weeks = 21 days, so all weeks must be days

That’s a narrative context — Daniel is describing a fast. The term "three full weeks" is used plainly and counts actual days.

But Daniel 9 is a prophetic context, with symbolic numbers, and a covenantal framework. You cannot conflate prophetic symbolism with personal journaling.

That’s like saying Revelation’s “dragon” must be literal because Genesis had a literal serpent.

---

6. The 3.5-Year Tribulation Doesn’t Fit Inside 7 Literal Days

The 70th week is 7 days, and halfway through it, the Beast breaks the covenant, starting the 3.5-year tribulation

Wait—3.5 years from the midpoint of a 7-day week? That’s not even mathematically possible.

• Half of 7 days = 3.5 days
• You say 3.5 years begins here — so you’re fitting 3.5 years inside 3.5 days

That's a fatal contradiction in your timeline.

---

7. Tradition and Scholarship Support 70 Weeks = 490 Years

You stand alone against:

• Jewish interpreters who saw 70 weeks as years (e.g., Dead Sea Scrolls sects)
• Early Church Fathers (Eusebius, Julius Africanus)
• Reformers (Luther, Calvin)
• Virtually every modern evangelical, Catholic, Orthodox, and Reformed scholar

Even Amillennialists — who disagree with Premill views — do NOT interpret Daniel 9 as 490 literal days.

This is not a debate between Amil and Premil — this is you against all known timelines and theological logic.

---

Final Challenge:

If the 70th week is 7 literal days, and the tribulation is 3.5 years starting halfway through that week...

How do you fit 3.5 literal years inside 3.5 literal days?​

You can't. Your system breaks under its own math.

---

Conclusion:

• The term “week” in Daniel 9 refers to weeks of years, not days
• Genesis 29 proves a week = 7 years is a valid biblical precedent
• The math of 490 days does not and cannot work
• Your interpretation introduces contradictions and destroys the coherence of Daniel's prophecy

The 70 weeks = 490 years. This is established by context, precedent, logic, tradition, and Scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you believe that verses 9-10 shows a scene in heaven like in revelation chapter 22 or on the earth?

Daniel 7:9-10 represents the second coming and final judgement, this takes place in the twinkling of an eye when mortal becomes immortal, God's in the eternal spiritual realm

Daniel 7:9-10KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Daniel 7:21 & Revelation 11:7 are parallel readings that are upon earth when the (Two Witnesses) are physically killed at the end of the future tribulation

Daniel 7:22 & Revelation 11:15 are parallel readings that take place at the second coming when mortal becomes immortal the New Heaven and Earth are established "Forever" Revelation 11:15 is its parallel reading

Daniel 7:18, Daniel 7:22 & Revelation 11:15 are parallel readings

Daniel 7:18KJV
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Daniel 7:21-22KJV
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Revelation 11:7-15KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Truth7t7]

Conclusion:

• The term “week” in Daniel 9 refers to weeks of years, not days
• Genesis 29 proves a week = 7 years is a valid biblical precedent
• The math of 490 days does not and cannot work
• Your interpretation introduces contradictions and destroys the coherence of Daniel's prophecy

The 70 weeks = 490 years. This is established by context, precedent, logic, tradition, and Scripture.

The conclusion is Daniel wrote "Seventy Weeks" not "Four Hundred Ninety Years" I stand on scripture as written and not man's adding to it with fabricated fairy tales in man's manufactured Malarkey

P.S. you didn't reference your gap in the floating 70th week that's been 2,000 years and waiting, Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, because that would mean Daniel 9:27 would be only 7 days long.

The abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-13 involves 1290 days and 1335 days. Which would not fit into just 7 days.

No it doesn't, Daniel's AOD happens in the middle of a 7 day period, this is when the future great tribulation starts

Keep your eyes and ears open for Messiah fever in Jerusalem, when the future command goes out to build the wall and stree the seventy week clock starts ticking

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Douggg]

No it doesn't, Daniel's AOD happens in the middle of a 7 day period, this is when the future great tribulation starts

What do you mean "happens" in the middle of a 7 days period?

1290 days and 1335 days do not fit within 7 days.

 

[Jay Ross]

Please allow me to restate my understanding of Daniel 7.

Daniel 7: -​

7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head while on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, telling the main facts.​

​

2 Daniel spoke, saying, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven[1] were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts/entities came up/manifested from the sea, each different from the other. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagle's wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it.​

​

5 "And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'​

​

6 "After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.​

​

7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.[2]​

​

Vision of the Ancient of Days​

​

(The following events will take place in around 20 years from now, around the beginning of the year 2045 AD)

​

9 "I watched till thrones were put in place,​

And the Ancient of Days was seated;​

His garment was white as snow,​

And the hair of His head was like pure wool.​

His throne was a fiery flame,​

Its wheels a burning fire; ​

10 A fiery stream issued​

And came forth from before Him.​

A thousand thousands ministered to Him;​

Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.​

The court was seated,​

And the books were opened. ​

​

11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast, i.e. {fourth wind of heaven}, was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, i.e. {the other winds of heaven} they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. ​

​

13 "I was watching in the night visions,​

And behold, One like the Son of Man,​

Coming with the clouds of heaven!​

He came to the Ancient of Days,​

And they brought Him near before Him. ​

14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,​

That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.​

His dominion is an everlasting dominion,​

Which shall not pass away,​

And His kingdom the one​

Which shall not be destroyed. ​

​

​

---

[1] The “four winds of heaven” are best understood to be four wicked fallen heavenly host that have gained an influence over the earth, in that, their dominate characteristic are manifested within the sea of humanity and these manifestations are described as beasts. The “four winds of heaven” are mentioned in Daniel 7:2, 8:8 and 11:4, and Zechariah 6:5.

[2] The little horn in these verses is another wicked fallen heavenly host, who is also called the “False Prophet” in Revelation 16:12-15, 19:20 and 20:10. The little horn also appears in Daniel 8.

 

[Jay Ross]

Continuation of post #78 above: -

Daniel's Visions Interpreted​

​

15 "I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by and asked him the truth of all this. So, he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things:​

​

17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.​

​

(Verse 17 will unfold after the Bottomless pit is unlocked to release Satan, the beast(s) and the Little Horn around the year 3045 AD)

​

18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.'​

​

(Verse 18 will occur at the time of the GWTR Judgement.)

​

19 "Then I wished to know the truth about the four faceted beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.​

​

21 "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,​

​

(Verse 21 describes the influence of the four beasts and the Little Horn of verses 1-10)

​

22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favour of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.​

​

(Verse 22 describes the GWTR Judgement.)

​

23 "Thus he said:​

'The fourth beast shall be​

A fourth kingdom on earth,​

Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,​

And shall devour the whole earth,​

Trample it and break it in pieces. ​

24 The ten horns are ten kings​

Who shall arise from this kingdom.​

And another shall rise after them;​

He shall be different from the first ones,​

And shall subdue three kings. ​

​

25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,​

Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,​

And shall intend to change times and law.​

Then the saints shall be given into his hand​

For a time and times and half a time. ​

​

26 'But the court shall be seated,​

And they shall take away his dominion,​

To consume and destroy it at the end of this time. ​

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,​

And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,​

Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.​

His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,​

And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.' ​

Plese note that the dates provided above are approximate dates as to when these events may take place.

 

[Truth7t7]

What do you mean "happens" in the middle of a 7 days period?

1290 days and 1335 days do not fit within 7 days.

I Disagree With Your Claims

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.