Understanding PARABLES

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
You are not listening to Hebrews 11 or to the Gospel of Christ. Faith is a gift from God and He gives it to whom He will. Once received, faith will justify the person before the Law - but it is not our salvation. Faith is what makes the pathway for Christ "straight" for Him to come to us and convert us. Spiritual conversion and our new spiritual body is our salvation and is the fulfillment of the promise that the OT Faithful saw from a distance but did not receive.
Joe

Again, some of that is good, but not the finish. You have as much as joined "the one new man" with the dead. That is not the gospel of Christ.

To the contrary, in Christ--the dead of old, and those since Pentecost--all have all "in Christ." Which in the history of this world was during His "day" and "hour", but with God, "before the foundation of the world." But you don't seem to be ready to discuss it in full.

 

[FaithWillDo]

That is not the "finish" of "the mystery of God" spoken of in Revelation 10:7.

You are referring to the spiritual resolve that comes with the peace of Christ in salvation. Very special, but not the wrap-up and revelation of all the higher knowledge included in the greater mystery of God. That is the finish--or it's not "finished." Your understanding and definition falls dreadfully short.

Dear ScottA,
If you understood that the seven trumpets are detailing a portion of the conversion process, you would understand when the mystery of God (Christ in us) is finished for a person. All the Elect will have the mystery of God finished for them before they die. They will keep this saying.
Joe

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
All the Elect are crucified with Christ when they are judged during the conversion process. Since the OT Faithful have not been converted, they have not been crucified with Christ.

You said:
Those who believed in His coming were crucified and raised up with Him.

There are no scriptures that support your understanding.

If you know the scriptures, tell me: Where is it written that Christ died once for all--and rose again, after first descending?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yeah, so there goes your idea that it was "finished" for those at their time of conversion. They/we even now, may be finished at the point of death--but not finished having gained all truth at their conversion.

What is your own witness--have you gained "all truth" and "the mystery of God" to the extent of His higher knowledge--that qualifies to be called "finished?"

Dear ScottA,
The mystery of God is does not mean "all truth". It means that Christ will be unveiled to them and have Christ within them. This is the mystery of God.

Next, as Christ feeds His truth to a converted believer, the Spirit of Truth will guide them into "all truth" as they mature from a child into a man of "full age".

Joe

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
If you understood that the seven trumpets are detailing a portion of the conversion process, you would understand when the mystery of God (Christ in us) is finished for a person. All the Elect will have the mystery of God finished for them before they die. They will keep this saying.
Joe

You and I are both repeating. Unfortunately, that means you will not know the finish before you die, but will awaken to what I have been telling you of.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Again, some of that is good, but not the finish. You have as much as joined "the one new man" with the dead. That is not the gospel of Christ.

To the contrary, in Christ--the dead of old, and those since Pentecost--all have all "in Christ." Which in the history of this world was during His "day" and "hour", but with God, "before the foundation of the world." But you don't seem to be ready to discuss it in full.

Dear ScottA,
You are greatly misunderstanding scripture and are ignoring many verses.
Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

You and I are both repeating. Unfortunately, that means you will not know the finish before you die, but will awaken to what I have been telling you of.

Dear ScottA,
Will you answer one question for me about salvation. Why do you believe you are saved and why others are not saved?
Joe

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
The mystery of God is does not mean "all truth". It means that Christ will be unveiled to them and have Christ within them. This is the mystery of God.

Next, as Christ feeds His truth to a converted believer, the Spirit of Truth will guide them into "all truth" as they mature from a child into a man of "full age".

Joe

Says you--but you are not batting a thousand. Like Israel, the kingdom of God had come upon them, but they perceived it not and walked away only to live out their lives not knowing. History repeats itself.

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
Will you answer one question for me about salvation. Why do you believe you are saved and why others are not saved?
Joe

I was caught up to the third heaven before God, changed and returned. As for others, many are saved and many are not, usually it shows.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Says you--but you are not batting a thousand. Like Israel, the kingdom of God had come upon them, but they perceived it not and walked away only to live out their lives not knowing. History repeats itself.

Dear ScottA,
They perceived it not because Christ did not give them eyes that could see it. And like Israel, neither can anyone else see it until Christ heals their blindness. Once their blindness is healed, the mystery of God is finished for them.
Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I was caught up to the third heaven before God, changed and returned. As for others, many are saved and many are not, usually it shows.

Dear ScottA,
There is only one reason why a person is saved: It is because Christ came to them and saved them.

To save a person, Christ will come them without their asking Him to come and without their permission. When He comes, Christ will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is what Paul received on the Damascus Road and is why Paul suddenly had a measure of faith and why Paul immediately fell to His knees and called Jesus "Lord".

Solely because of Christ's work within Paul, Paul became a babe in Christ. Paul's blindness at that time represented his spiritual blindness. Paul was then led by the hand by other spiritually blind people into Damascus (the blind leading the blind) where Paul was unable to eat Christ's bread or drink His New Wine.

While in Damascus, Paul stayed at a house of a man named Judas to represent Paul's fallen away spiritual state (man of sin). Then, at a day and an hour that was established by the Father, Christ (typed by Ananias) returned to Paul (Christ's second coming) and poured out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only then did the scales fall from Paul's eyes. Afterwards, Christ fed Paul "meat" (truth) which spiritually strengthened him. This event finished the mystery of God for Paul. Though not shown in Paul's testimony, Paul's spiritual judgment would have occurred next to complete his conversion. This is the moment when Paul was saved and when Paul entered the Kingdom of Heaven.

Under the New Covenant, Christ does 100% of the work of saving a person. Nothing is left to chance or to the person's "will". The Father is the one who has decided when their salvation will occur. The individual has no say in the matter. And because the Father sent Christ to save the world (1John 4:14), Christ will repeat the conversion process within every person who has ever lived. After the last person is saved, it will be testified to be true that all who have died in Adam will have been made alive in Christ - both spiritually and bodily resurrected into a child of God. This is the meaning of life and is the purpose for God's creation. This is the God that I know and love with all my heart, mind and soul.

This is a good time to end our discussion since you are not benefiting from it.

Joe

 

[ScottA]

Dear ScottA,
They perceived it not because Christ did not give them eyes that could see it. And like Israel, neither can anyone else see it until Christ heals their blindness. Once their blindness is healed, the mystery of God is finished for them.
Joe

Dear ScottA,
There is only one reason why a person is saved: It is because Christ came to them and saved them.

To save a person, Christ will come them without their asking Him to come and without their permission. When He comes, Christ will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is what Paul received on the Damascus Road and is why Paul suddenly had a measure of faith and why Paul immediately fell to His knees and called Jesus "Lord".

Solely because of Christ's work within Paul, Paul became a babe in Christ. Paul's blindness at that time represented his spiritual blindness. Paul was then led by the hand by other spiritually blind people into Damascus (the blind leading the blind) where Paul was unable to eat Christ's bread or drink His New Wine.

While in Damascus, Paul stayed at a house of a man named Judas to represent Paul's fallen away spiritual state (man of sin). Then, at a day and an hour that was established by the Father, Christ (typed by Ananias) returned to Paul (Christ's second coming) and poured out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only then did the scales fall from Paul's eyes. Afterwards, Christ fed Paul "meat" (truth) which spiritually strengthened him. This event finished the mystery of God for Paul. Though not shown in Paul's testimony, Paul's spiritual judgment would have occurred next to complete his conversion. This is the moment when Paul was saved and when Paul entered the Kingdom of Heaven.

Under the New Covenant, Christ does 100% of the work of saving a person. Nothing is left to chance or to the person's "will". The Father is the one who has decided when their salvation will occur. The individual has no say in the matter. And because the Father sent Christ to save the world (1John 4:14), Christ will repeat the conversion process within every person who has ever lived. After the last person is saved, it will be testified to be true that all who have died in Adam will have been made alive in Christ - both spiritually and bodily resurrected into a child of God. This is the meaning of life and is the purpose for God's creation. This is the God that I know and love with all my heart, mind and soul.

This is a good time to end our discussion since you are not benefiting from it.

Joe

Unfortunately, you believe and are stuck in a doctrine of your own understanding. Satan had some things correct also. But you don't understand what you don't understand. However, you should know that many passages can be interpreted in different ways, and we do not get to decide or imagine what is true, nor build what we think is correct upon a foundation that is not correct without it eventually collapsing. I have as much as told you how I have answered to you, and by whose authority--telling you things that don't exactly fit what you yourself have interpreted and believed to be true. Indeed, it is enough. By the measure you have used, so shall it be written.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I was caught up to the third heaven before God, changed and returned. As for others, many are saved and many are not, usually it shows.

This statement reveals you do not know or understand the meaning of the third heaven. You may never....

 

[JLB]

Parables in the scriptures are not the same as parables elsewhere.

Parables elsewhere may have multiple meanings too--even a hidden meaning, or not. But in the scriptures parables have their own structure not at all common elsewhere. In no other literature are there parables that include a greater spiritual word from God, not obvious at face value. In fact, in parables in scripture the object of comparison, is never the greater subject. So, yes, the lesser moral saying and comparison may have a simple meaning and benefit--but that is not why they are a part of the eternal word of God. The moral, worldly part ends when the world ends, but the greater spiritual part which is not always obvious, is true and relative forever.

Jesus gave the answer to why God speaks in parables, saying, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables" (Mark 4:11). In other words, the scriptures--the word of God--is protected and limited to those who are God's. Paul then elaborates, saying, "the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14).

But the reason I have posted this thread...is that even here, there are many who endlessly debate the simple, moral words of parables as if that is the greater spiritual message, which they are not. The scriptures themselves tell us that. Which, sadly, shows a lack of understanding the word of God--which is spirit.

Jesus gave examples of how the meaning of parables is to be stated--which He did by translating. An example would be The Parable of the Sower, where the object is "seed", but then He explained or translated the meaning saying, "The seed is the word of God." That one seems simple--even foolish to talk about. But there is a thread currently being debated about The Unjust Steward, where the debate continues to be about money, when money was simply the object of the parable, having nothing to do with the greater meaning. And every Christian needs to know that the object of God's parable language--is not the greater reason for it being written.

While we are at it--please, PLEASE notice in the Mark 4:11 passage above it says "all things come in parables." Meaning, everything available to the evils among the general public--"all" scripture comes "in parables"...therefore, having greater spiritual meaning.

Thank you for this thread. I love the parables. The parable of the Sower contains very important truths.


I would like to ask you a question concerning the parable of the Sower.

It‘s a very simple question and easy to answer, but nevertheless I will ask you.


For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


What must someone have in order to be given more?

 

[JLB]

Dear ScottA,
There is only one reason why a person is saved: It is because Christ came to them and saved them.

‘This thread is about parables, not Calvinist nonsense.

Stay on topic.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The principle underlying judgment is clear: human pride often distorts our perception of others, and behind every act of censure lies a measure of self-congratulation. The Scriptures warn that such judgment will be merciless (James 2:13; Psalm 18:25-26), reflecting the seriousness of the matter. When we “measure” others against our own perceived virtues (cf. 2 Corinthians 10:12), even obedience can turn into self-righteousness. Consequently, the same standard we impose on others will ultimately be applied to us. If we make ourselves the measure of acceptance, we will ultimately have to stand on our own merits. In this way, severity exercised unjustly toward our brethren becomes a retributive principle, applied justly to ourselves. This creates a clear argument: judgment begins with self-examination, for the standards we impose on others will inevitably return upon us.

2 Corinthians 10:12 "Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding."

 

[Hiddenthings]

Thank you for this thread. I love the parables. The parable of the Sower contains very important truths.


I would like to ask you a question concerning the parable of the Sower.

It‘s a very simple question and easy to answer, but nevertheless I will ask you.


For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


What must someone have in order to be given more?

Daniel 2:21 "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding."

In this context, it refers to the ability to discern the value of spiritual principles in contrast to mere worldly knowledge (cf. Heb. 4:12-13). Those who demonstrate this discernment and clearly recognize the worth of spiritual truths are granted further wisdom by Yahweh, as Daniel himself exemplified.

 

[JLB]

Daniel 2:21 "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding."

In this context, it refers to the ability to discern the value of spiritual principles in contrast to mere worldly knowledge (cf. Heb. 4:12-13). Those who demonstrate this discernment and clearly recognize the worth of spiritual truths are granted further wisdom by Yahweh, as Daniel himself exemplified.

Maybe you can answer my question concerning the parable of the Sower?


For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


What must someone have in order to be given more?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Maybe you can answer my question concerning the parable of the Sower?


For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


What must someone have in order to be given more?

It's what Daniel and many others like him have.

The “good ground” in the parable represents those with honest and good hearts, prepared to receive God’s Word (Luke 8:15). Fruitfulness is the result of a process: first hearing the Word (Matthew 13:23), then receiving it into the heart (Mark 4:20), understanding it (Matthew 13:23), keeping it (Luke 8:15), and patiently producing fruit. Even among the good ground, fruitfulness varies, some yield thirty-fold, while others yield a hundred-fold, reflecting differing levels of faithfulness and preparation. Just as Isaac, the true seed, reaped a hundred-fold (Genesis 26:12), those who are faithful, patient, and diligent in holding God’s Word will bear abundant spiritual fruit, demonstrating the enduring power of understanding, receiving, and living by God’s promises.

In other words, "till the ground from which you were taken!" Genesis 3:19

 

[Hiddenthings]

Be cautious, for many gospels may be sown into the heart, but only one brings salvation.