Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[marks]

Active Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice.


For example: "Jesus was baptizing the people" (paraphrase of John 3:22; 4:1,2). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence and is the one that is performing the action of the verb; therefore the verb is said to be in the "Active Voice".


Passive Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice.


For example: "Jesus ... was baptized by John in the Jordan" (Mark 1:9). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence, but in this case He is being acted upon (i.e. He is the recipient of the action), therefore the verb is said to be in the "Passive Voice".


Middle Voice
The Greek middle voice shows the subject acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as "the performer of the action actually acting upon himself" (reflexive action).


For example: "I am washing myself." "I" is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet "I" am also receiving the action of the verb. This is said to be in the "Middle Voice". Many instances in the Greek are not this obvious and cannot be translated this literally.

Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

 

[shepherdsword]

Active Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice.


For example: "Jesus was baptizing the people" (paraphrase of John 3:22; 4:1,2). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence and is the one that is performing the action of the verb; therefore the verb is said to be in the "Active Voice".


Passive Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice.


For example: "Jesus ... was baptized by John in the Jordan" (Mark 1:9). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence, but in this case He is being acted upon (i.e. He is the recipient of the action), therefore the verb is said to be in the "Passive Voice".


Middle Voice
The Greek middle voice shows the subject acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as "the performer of the action actually acting upon himself" (reflexive action).


For example: "I am washing myself." "I" is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet "I" am also receiving the action of the verb. This is said to be in the "Middle Voice". Many instances in the Greek are not this obvious and cannot be translated this literally.

Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

 

[Episkopos]

The point I found interesting was the fact that ginomai is in the middle voice. This means that both parties have something to doin order to establish this righteousness.

The bible attest to us sowing in righteousness (ours) UNTIL He comes and rains righteousness (His) upon us. This is true both historically in the upgrade in covenants...from the first law (Moses) to the second law (Christ). But also in our own individual lives. When we are not walking in the full victory of grace over sin, we should AT LEAST give our talent over to the money-changers and sow righteousness.

Like I mentioned earlier about salvation is in the passive voice meaning God alone accomplished it. But the establishment of the righteousness of God's middle voice means we do have something to do with that. What are your thoughts on this?

Rather than getting too technical on voicings...the bile IS FULL of teachings on righteousness...which are of course not understood by the modern church due to a lack of understanding of the comparison of the normal walk in the flesh and the higher walk in the Spirit. People seem unable to walk AND chew gum at the same time, so to speak. But faith makes what the brain can't handle very easy to understand.

As in...I can ride faster in a car than on a bike. Or... I can dig a bigger hole with an excavator than with a spoon. Such easy wisdom seems fully out of the grasp of so many here and in the church at large.

I can do ALL things through Christ....but is there any faith at all out there?

Even the idea of what faith is is not understood...taken to mean religious beliefs rather than an open acceptance that God does the impossible routinely. :)

The superficial don't realize how superficial they are...they have nothing to compare it to. ;)

 

[HeReigns]

It isn't for us to declare ourselves righteous based on our beliefs. Everything is coming from us and a religious imagination in that case. God must intervene personally in the life of the individual...if we are to have a unique and personal testimony of Christ. And this goes beyond a change in motivation...into the actual eternal realm. Salvation is far more basic than that if we are speaking of an inheritance of life AFTER a physical death. God will have mercy on whom He wills. But God judges hard against those who name and claim philosophical, figurative, positional doctrines, and lower His standard of holiness. Such will be cast out of the presence of God as an eternal reminder of the mixture of flesh and Spirit among such that refused to repent and fear God and repent of the evil they did.

My ministry to the modern church is to save people from such an end, through a balanced and spiritual understanding that restores both righteousness on the human level, and holiness on the spiritual level. Each according to its own weight of glory...from glory to glory.

It's not for us to declare ourselves righteous, I agree. But it is up to us to believe God by faith, since He has declared us washed clean and righteous.

 

[Episkopos]

I got my second blessing, it changed my walk in Christ into holiness, so I know what you are talking about. But it never was into Zion or about sinless perfection, it was about total obedience.

Don't make the good the enemy of the perfect. I am simply testifying the the depth of the gospel message which doesn't stop at what we have not yet experienced. I am relating the truth of the gospel in full resolution...that of a full walk in two realms at once.

You are creating new words, walking in Zion, holiness sins, higher walk, more ?

No...you are not reading with enough faith...instead relying on a human understanding and experience. The bible is grasped only by faith. God reveals the deeper truth to those who come at it as a child would...not trying to figure things out rationally. The miraculous walk is not based on a superior intellect, but rather a full surrender. Let God show you...but you need to humble yourself and have faith.

If it is meant to impress people, it doesn't work for me.

You are reading through an unbroken ego...so you are examining what I am writing through a carnal lens. You are wanting to be impressed? How carnal is that? I write to help and save my fellow believers...to snatch them from lies and the snares of the flesh due to a lack of knowledge, wisdom and understanding. If that doesn't "impress" you then move on.

What about -

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Forgotten about that?

What does that have to do with the living?

 

[Episkopos]

It's not for us to declare ourselves righteous, I agree. But it is up to us to believe God by faith, since He has declared us washed clean and righteous.

That is false. He has declared those who enter INTO Him as clean. You are reading far too superficially...and with self-interest in mind. You need to let go of the ego to actually become cleansed. God saves us FROM our sins, not in them.

 

[Behold]

I think the translators are misguided in using "ginomai" as "to become".

You dont even understand The Cross, according to your Threads and posts, and yet you are now a bible corrector?

Too funny.

 

[Behold]

..but it is impossible to BECOME righteousness...

The born again......have become "The righteousness of GOD, by faith".

Their "Faith is counted by God, as IChrist's) Righteousness"... = imputed to them.

God accepts the Faith of the Sinner, to then give the sinner, "The Gift of Righeousness".

Like this....."blessed is the person to whom God imputes RIGHTEOUSNESS........ without works".

 

[Behold]

What do you think the gospel of the kingdom is about?

Paul's Gospel is not the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Paul's Gospel is "The Gospel of the GRACE of God". that is "we preach CHRIST Crucified"... "The Preaching of The Cross".

"Justification by FAITH" without works or deeds of the law"

You know.. the one you have never understood and can't explain and deny. @Episkopos

Its the one that states that God's eternal Forgiveness is found through Christ's sacrifice on THE CROSS.. for the sin of the world.

John 3:16,17.

Its the one that entirely omits your bizarre theology.

 

[Behold]

The bible attest to us sowing in righteousness

Listen ...
You have no righteousness of your own.
You are this one, just like everyone else......."ALL have sinned, there is NONE RIGHTEOUS........no not one"..

So, this is why God has to deal with YOUR SIN on The Cross........and then give you His Righteousness., as "The Gift of Righteousness", that is "the imputed righteousness" of Christ.

 

[Behold]

You are reading through an unbroken ego...so you are examining what I am writing through a carnal lens.

We are examining your nutty theology through the NT's actual teaching on Salvation, and it finds you FALSE, and your theology DECEITFUL, and not of God. @Episkopos

You are this one.

Galatians 1:8

 

[amigo de christo]

You dont even understand The Cross, according to your Threads and posts, and yet you are now a bible corrector?

Too funny.

let us change those last two words
Far deadly . I been watching epi for years .
This one .
But sirs what must I DO to be SAVED . you would marvel at the many answers that men like epi and others give to this
generation .
But here is the answer of paul and of silas . BELEIVE , there it is that word BELIEVE that so many have a problem with today ,
ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
That aint the gospel they preach at all . and no amount of good works , no matter how well they seemed
Can save a man . WHY . why is that one might ask ,
Because YOU SHOW ME ONE man or woman that has not sinned and fallen far short of the glory of GOD .
IN fact the ONLY ONE WHO DID THAT was , WELL JESUS CHRIST of course .
And here is his own words .
YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS for IF YOU BELEIVE NOT that i am HE then you WILL DIE , not might die , WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS .
And here is what he also had to say .
WHEN even his own desicples who marveled greatly said ,
WHO THEN LORD can be saved .
According to epi the answer it the inclusive one , which be false .
BUT JESUS said with MAN , yes WITH MAN this is IMPOSSIBLE . NOT WITH GOD and GOD HAS ALREADY
CHOSEN THE WAY BY WHICH MAN can be saved .
For it pleased the FATHER by the preaching to save THOSE WHO DO ..............who do what , BELEIVE .

 

[Episkopos]

Everything I speak of is meant to be understood very simply by faith. People will want proof...syntax, proof-texting...etc...but the point is missed. To take apart a false understanding is beyond the scope of this forum. I present the truth in its full resolution, and no one understands it. They only get glimmers and perhaps a few questions are asked...most facetiously. It's the flesh at work. And people think that their displays of the flesh and unbelief are somehow acceptable to God. People think I'm as carnally minded as them. But rather than actually study to prove me wrong, most just assume I'm wrong. To follow the path I'm relating would take far too much effort for most...and then again, can people see what is being presented to them? Can they hear what the Spirit is saying?

I remain hopeful that even the mockers are not too far gone that they can write off most of the bible for a few mistranslated or misunderstood verses.

Who is interested in having their paradigms challenged.?..the benefit is intimacy with God in truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Listen ...
You have no righteousness of your own.
You are this one, just like everyone else......."ALL have sinned, there is NONE RIGHTEOUS........no not one"..

So, this is why God has to deal with YOUR SIN on The Cross........and then give you His Righteousness., as "The Gift of Righteousness", that is "the imputed righteousness" of Christ.

Your gospel is false. You would have Jesus be counted sinful by God....whereas He was sinless....SO that we can do the opposite game and sin away so we can be holy. It's the upside down god...the opposite of truth.

Only the devil makes everything opposite to the truth....turning the truth into a lie.

So your god judges UNrighteously...ascribing opposites to the truth and reality. So if Jesus is sinless then He must be counted sinful by your god....Lucifer. If you then continue in sin...then your god counts that as holiness....a nefarious and evil holiness.

For that scheme to work we would have to add to...God will judge the world in righteousness...with But God will judge the church in unrighteousness. Search for that in the bible.

The truth is simple. We are to do right UNTIL God empowers us to do exactly as Jesus did...to walk in His truth and perfection in holiness WITHOUT sin. To overcome as He overcame.

The truth is the EXACT opposite of what you say. You play the opposite game.....do you realize that? Is this on purpose or in ignorance?

May the Lord be patient in this time of your rebellious attitude.

 

[HeReigns]

That is false. He has declared those who enter INTO Him as clean. You are reading far too superficially...and with self-interest in mind. You need to let go of the ego to actually become cleansed. God saves us FROM our sins, not in them.

He HAS saved us from our sins, by forgiving them. But it doesn't end there, it is a new beginning. Like new born babes, we are to be feeding on the word of God, undergoing His teaching/discipline/chastisements etc, as His disciples, and begin to grow. And it costs us, we pay a price to follow Him.

 

[HeReigns]

That is false. He has declared those who enter INTO Him as clean. You are reading far too superficially...and with self-interest in mind. You need to let go of the ego to actually become cleansed. God saves us FROM our sins, not in them.

Ego? Aren't you painting with a broad brush? People vary in their personal tendencies.....it actually is hard for some to fully embrace the idea of undeserved forgiveness.

 

[HeReigns]

View attachment 69814

I'm trying to grasp what the aorist tense means....does it indicate something already accomplished, or something in process of being accomplished....or both?

 

[Episkopos]

He HAS saved us from our sins, by forgiving them.

False. We are still in our sins if God overlooks them. God is a God of truth and He doesn't respect persons in judgment. So a sin is a sin is a sin...no matter who does them.

If forgiveness was only possible through the sacrifice of Jesus then we would not be told to forgive others...we would say, I'd like to forgive you but I can't unless Jesus dies.

Of course this is foolishness. And besides, why would Jesus have to die when forgiveness is conditional ON US. Forgive us AS we forgive those who trespass against us. Read the bible. Read where the man who was FORGIVEN a great debt was no longer forgiven when he neglected to forgive a person who owed him much less.

Learn from this.

The cross is about what we can't do for ourselves...it is about holiness and being washed clean of all sin by the resurrected Christ. It is about being holy as God is holy...no sin at all. But this takes faith to understand or even to consider.

But it doesn't end there, it is a new beginning. Like new born babes, we are to be feeding on the word of God, undergoing His teaching/discipline/chastisements etc, as His disciples, and begin to grow. And it costs us, we pay a price to follow Him.

Yes and no. What we begin in sin ends in sin. One has to learn the difference between the 2 laws. The law of Christ empowers us to walk above the flesh and the law of sin and death. There is no walk INTO the Promised land of the Spirit from the growth in human understanding. We need to be TRANSLATED miraculously to walk in the Spirit....to walk in Zion where God meets us in intimacy. The Spirit realm is not accessible by human growth and effort.

We can have the dew of the morning and walk in righteousness. But to go to the cross requires a full surrender that very few will be able to undertake. Most believers are not saints or the Bride....they are guests, both bad and good.
As long as one can remain humble and not claim to be more than one is...there is mercy from God. Sow in righteousness reap in mercy. God gives grace to the HUMBLE. Those who claim God's righteousness for themselves will be cast out.

 

[Episkopos]

Ego? Aren't you painting with a broad brush? People vary in their personal tendencies.....it actually is hard for some to fully embrace the idea of undeserved forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not on the same level as holiness. Forgiveness is based on righteousness and holiness is based on...holiness. I think you don't yet understand the difference as vast as it may be.

Start there.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ego? Aren't you painting with a broad brush? People vary in their personal tendencies.....it actually is hard for some to fully embrace the idea of undeserved forgiveness.

I want us all to examine something huge and yet so simple .
Notice that while the gentile centurion cornelious had been doing many things pleasing unto GOD
that still this could not save him .
That in fact the one thing he needed to hear was the gospel and to beleive to be saved .
Even as peter later mentions to the church in jersualem
Words by which you and your house shall BE SAVED .
So never buy into this inclusive lie that just because unbeleivers can be doing good things
That means they are saved . cause they aint .
Not even cornelious WHO DID much good and gave much alms to the poor
could be saved by those good wonderful works he too was doing .
HE had to hear the gospel and BELIEVE to be saved .
Not to mention show me one person who has not done as did adam and eve .
ALL of creation has failed to overcome death . BUT NOT JESUS . HE DID IT and HE DID so
for our sakes . Always GOD knew the plan HE had for this world and how to save it . HIS NAME JESUS THE CHRIST
and OH YES you must believe IN HIM to be saved .
And one more reminder , if the jesus one comes to honors sins , i got bad news ITS NOT JESUS .
And it cannot save you no matter how it implies that it can .
JESUS does not honor sin . HE came to set us free FROM SIN and from the POWER of HE who had the keys of death .
Let us not marvel that men in wool can deceive . remember the words of paul . THEY sure can . Stay in the scriptures
be in prayers , being hearers and does of the GLorious Word .