Cut short of all life on earth being wiped out. Not reduced in the number of days.
The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short
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I think the verse you are basing your question on says the year of God's wrath - not one year of God's wrath. Please reference the bible passages.
During the great tribulation there will be 7 bowls of God's wrath poured out.
There are three passages in the bible that the day of atonement is found.
DAY OF ATONEMENT IN THE BIBLE
See 'Day of Atonement' instances in the King James Version (KJV).
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org
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If any of this is involving the 42 month reign of the beast, like I take it be involving, it is those refusing to worship it that are being wiped out, and not also the ones worshiping it. If it wipes them out as well, who then is remaining on the earth to worship it if it has wiped out pretty much everyone on the earth unless the days are cut short?
Even as obviously wrong as a 70 AD interpretation is, it at least proves that not everyone alive on the earth are in danger of being wiped out unless these days are cut short. Per this scenario it would only be the Jews being in danger of being wiped out unless these days are cut short. Not to mention, the text tells us that it is for the elect's sake that these days are cut short. In this context if the elect mean the saved, thus the NT church, and surely it does, this alone tells us 70 AD and leading up to it can't be meant. At no time whatsoever during that period of time leading up to 70 AD were the elect, the body of Christ, ever in danger of being wiped out unless the days were cut short.
Except some ignore that it is for the elect's sake these days are cut short. Or if they don't ignore that, they then have the elect meaning someone the elect is not even meaning. They have the elect meaning unbelieving Jews. Or even more bizzare, they agree the elect is meaning the church, but that this is involving what happened to unbelieving Jews leading up to 70 AD, therefore, disregarding that it is for the elect's sake these days are shortened.
All life on earth being wiped out includes all the animals, insects, fish, i.e. anything with life.
You are concluding that per what? Some of the trumpet warnings perhaps?(initially I said judgments but maybe warnings fit better?) If so, are all of the trumpet warnings even meaning during the 42 month reign of the beast, thus during great tribulation? Or maybe you don't connect the 42 month reign of the beast with that of great tribulation? Keeping in mind Matthew 24:22 is only involving the era of time pertaining to great tribulation. IOW, it's not involving any events prior to nor after great tribulation. I tend to think the first 5 trumpets are fulfilled prior to the fulfilling of the 42 month reign of the beast, thus great tribulation, since it is during the 6th trumpet when the 42 month reign of the beast is initially fulfilled. Which could mean in Matthew 24, for example, verses 6-8, that these things are involving the time of the first 5 trumpets.
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I do connect the 42 month reign of the beast king being within the 1335 day long great tribulation. And the trumpet judgments taking place within the great tribulation.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
All flesh on earth, I view as being all life on earth being wiped out, i.e. earth becoming a lifeless planet.
I can also understand your point of view that the verse is speaking about only humans.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
These verses are not talking about there being no life on earth being left alive. These verses are saying if the great tribulation, which is when the beast is killing those that don't take the mark, is not cut short, there would be no believers that are raptured alive unto salvation. All believers would be killed and would have to be raised from the dead at their rapture.
But you don't understand that there are two raptures and the second rapture takes place at the 6th seal before the 7th seal wrath of God.
The fig tree has two harvests. LOOK IT UP. Days of Noah and Days of Lot. Jacob had two brides.
Take a look at this verse...
Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The year of God's wrath works for me.
I wonder. Is there anyone on this forum that understands that the great tribulation is when the beast is killing believers that do not take the mark? The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal.
I wonder. Is there anyone on this forum that understands that the wrath of God is when God punishes an unbelieving and ungodly world?
I wonder. Is there anyone that understands that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.
I wonder. Is there anyone on this forum that understands that all the feasts of God will be fulfilled including the day of atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles?There are three passages in the bible that the day of atonement is found.
DAY OF ATONEMENT IN THE BIBLE
See 'Day of Atonement' instances in the King James Version (KJV).
The Light
Well-Known Member
During the great tribulation, there will be martyred great tribulation saints.
Next point. The 6th seal event is described in Matthew 24:29-30a. Matthew 24:29 "the tribulation of those days (1290 days)" will be over at the 6th seal event. But the whole great tribulation (1335 days) will be over the day that Jesus returns.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The Light believes the first part of the 7 yr gt is just minor trib as we see today.
In fact he believes we are in that first 3.5 yrs.
He thinks the gt ( same as wrath) and wrath are all that is left.
He starts ALL HIS ESCHATOLOGY with resistance to any future 7 yr period.
In fact his starting place is taking Jesus words of "trib", "GT" AND "WRATH" , and making a case that they are strict distinct time frames and only 3.5 yrs are relevant to anything.
That is why when you say "7yr" he is going to say, "no not 7...it is Only 3.5 yrs".
If you point to the innumerable number in heaven being there at the start of the gt, it interrupts his doctrine..
He can not have them martyred right away.
( And he can not have any wrath at the start of the 7 yr tribulation)
When you point out the waving of palm branches 7 days at the fall feasts, he will immediately reject it as a nothing burger.
( that pesky 7)
In the Noah analogy, he quickly makes the 7 days of loading the ark into trib vs wrath, and discounts EVERY pointer to the ark in heaven during the 7 yr trib.
( again, the strick trib vs wrath hurdle,
So Noah can not possibly be a type of the rapture) ..( again, because of the strict trib vs wrath pillar of his starting place)
He thinks Noah is one dynamic, and Lot another dynamic.
One is the rapture, and the other something else.
But Jesus used BOTH AS THE RAPTURE.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
There is no saints "faithful to the end of the trib"
It clearly says they are martyred.
I did not see any rapture ofv1 thes 4 in your timeline.
( the one taken/one left of mat 24)
Also did not see the Jewish gathering (jewish rapture of rev 14:14) right before the wrath part of the 7 yr trib.on your timeline.
Also did not see any placement of the innumerable number that are in heaven waving Palm branches.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
There is no one year wrath.
The Jews are gathered right before the wrath.
The AC desecrated the temple halfway through the 7 yr trib that you say does not exist.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Of course there is a 7 year period. Read my posts. The 7 year period begins when a 7 year covenant with many is made.
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The issue I am pointing out is that there is only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel. Time, times and half a time. I have pointed this out many times. The main reason that this is important is because most think that the Church will be raptured BEFORE the seven-year period begins. It will not. Noah is not shut in the ark 7 days before the flood.
Most watchmen have changed the time that Christ died from 30AD to 32AD. They have done this because their timeline no longer works because they think that the Church will be raptured before the final week begins. This is in error.
Most watchmen also think that the Church will be raptured on the Feast of Trumpets.......this year. You know there are two raptures, but most watchmen do not understand this. Yes, there will be a rapture on the Feast of Trumpets, but not this year and not for the Church. It is for the Jews, and it will occur at the 6th seal.........immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the 7th seal wrath of God.
Tribulation of believers is not the wrath of God.
The Church is raptured in the summer. The Feast of Trumpets is a fall harvest feast. Biblical fact.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Exactly. The gathering from heaven and earth takes place at the second coming which occurs at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal one year wrath of God begins.
There is no 7 year tribulation. There is a 7 year final week that begins when a covenant with many is made. When the AOD is set up in the midst of the week the remaining 3.5 years of the 70th week of Daniel will begin.
Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
The Light
Well-Known Member
There is no 7 year great tribulation. We can prove that by Daniel 12.
Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
False. The final week begins when a 7 year covenant with many is made. We will not know for sure that the final week has begun until this 7 year covenant is confirmed by the Antichrist.
Again false. You claim that the great tribulation is 7 years long. This does not agree with the Word of God. Scriptural FACT.
The great tribulation is not the wrath of God. Scriptural FACT.
The great tribulation is when believers are killed by the beast for not taking the mark. The wrath of God is when God brings vengeance on an unbelieving world. Why so many cannot grasp these FACTS I cannot explain. It's simple.
Don't you mean when I point out that the great multitude is in heaven in Revelation 7, which is right after the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, you ignore the facts. The Word even says some come out of great tribulation. And yet the 7th seal has not even been opened yet. How do you not grasp this? The great tribulation is not the wrath of God.
Gods' wrath does not begin until the 7 seal is opened. FACT. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. FACT.
Let's use simple logic.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days..........Jesus come with His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Question. How can Jesus show up with His angels immediately after the tribulation if when He shows up, He is coming for Armageddon that has not occurred yet?
Riddle me this. How is this possible?
You mean, I used Biblical facts, to disprove your point, and now you think that is a nothing burger.
Jesus showed up in the spring, entering Jerusalem riding a donkey and the people were waving palm branches. This occurred on Passover and not in the fall.
John 12
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
So your contention is incorrect.
Again. I use scripture. You use opinions. Your opinion is that Noah spent 7 days loading the animals. The Word of God says that Noah loaded the animals in one day. The occurred on the day he was instructed to enter the ark.
Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Yes I do. The days of Noah are a picture of the rapture of the Church. The days of Lot are a picture of the rapture of the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth.
How is it that you understand that there are two raptures, but don't know what to do with the second rapture or understand when it occurs?
Both are raptures as the fig tree has two harvests and Jacob had two brides and the second bride was the chosen bride.
There are two raptures. One occurs at the trump of God, or voice of God and one occurs at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets.
One occurs and is the spring and summer grain harvest and one occurs and is the fall fruit harvest.
One occurs when the Lord Himself comes and one occurs when He sends His angels to gather the elect.
It amazes me that you understand that there are two raptures but don't know what to do with the rapture of the Jews.
There will be saints faithful to the end of the great tribulation, who will survive through it, including those in Judea who will flee to the mountains (where they will be protected against any attempt to destroy them) when they see the abomination of desolation setup on the temple mount.
Matthew 24:15-21
Revelation 12:14-16
It is not possible to put everything onto one chart. The rapture will take place any time between right now and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation which will trigger the beginning of the day of the Lord.
I show the rapture on this chart.
The innumerable number in Revelation 7 that have come out of the great tribulation are saints that will have died during the great tribulation, their souls in heaven.
The 144,000 are of the tribes of the children of Israel sealed before the plagues of the great tribulation begin. Revelation 7:1-8. It appears that 144,000 will be taken in the rapture, redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-5.
There is a 7 year period (Daniel 9:27, Ezekiel 39:9). But I would not label it as being the 7 year trib - as most of the first half will not be tribulation, but a false messianic age of the Antichrist being perceived by the Jews as their long-awaited King of Israel messiah. I would refer to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 as the "70th week".
If you are Pre-trib, I would suggest that you use the term "pre-70th week" to clarify. The term Pre-trib is somewhat misleading since not all of the 7 years is tribulation.
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