Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[amigo de christo]

Agree.


Agree. Except that having grace for others is not the same thing as religious encouragement.


Who wouldn't prefer joy? But it is not our will, but His be done. You've taken words out of my own mouth on the rest.


This is too harsh and wrong-headed.


Agree. In principle at least.


Well an insult is an insult. And warning is warning (as long as it's coming from the right place). Not that hard to discern between the two.


There are so many who want to pound and smite people with the word of God but without actually ministering it to them, unfortunately.


I do not and never have disdained the warnings of scripture. But I can't receive it when it is skewed and coming from a wrong place.

sister , a dire reminder is now necessary for us all . THIS WORLD is gonna hate us sister .
Dont worry about being accused or even name called . Worry me for those who are following another jesus .
HE AINT CHANGED one bit sister , Epi has not changed his beleif . It aint the gospel sister .
Too many are getting caught up with trying to get along and find common ground .
May i die long before i do . Seriously i had sooner be dragged through the streets on a cart
with all this unified so called love throwing all kinds of things at me and hurling insults
at me , as they lead me to my own death . THAN TO SELL ONE WORD OF GOD OUT . i aint budging sister
and i will not conform . My mind has been made up since even when we first met
and its only doubling down now . No conforming for me sister . the cost will be the cost .
I know it can be or seem to be at times a lonely road and IT WILL GET ONLY WORSE .
YOU HOLD the course sister . I know what that man beleives and what he has said .
And he aint changed his mind one bit about THAT .

 

[shepherdsword]

The middle voice is reflexive, we perform the action on ourselves. Passive voice, the action is performed upon us. Active voice, we perform the actions.

Much love!

Middle voice is not limited to performing the action on ourselves.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The NT provides a steady walk in the Spirit by the keeping power of God

So the Lord does everything?

We aren't co laborers with the Lord like the Lord tells us in His Word (1 Corinthians 3:9)?

That sounds very close to what the calvinists teach.

 

[marks]

We've already become branches of the Tree of Life and partakers of its Root, through faith in Christ that is not of our own (which is distinct from the belief of religious Jews and Catholics and cultural protestants whose belief is of their own). But we are still works in progress and having to contend with the flesh though, as you are. And if we are blessed to be given tastes of "walking above" the flesh now and then, we are grateful for it, knowing we're tasting the powers of the world to come and desire for more of it. I believe the Lord encourages us onward and upward by such experiences and encounters and builds up our faith/trust in Him.

For me it served to show me the target, that's it's real, possible, and what God intends for us. I'm convinced that it ended for me as a necessary step to allow me to learn how to walk in the Spirit by faith.

I don't believe that we are to differentiate "different walks", only, whether we are walking according to flesh or in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit, the Lord may do anything He wants with us.

I always have liked the statement made in the Calvary Chapel distinctives, that we look for love in our lives for others to be a proof that we've truly been worshiping God.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

So the Lord does everything?

We aren't co laborers with the Lord like the Lord tells us in His Word (1 Corinthians 3:9)?

That sounds very close to what the calvinists teach.

It depends on the level one is walking at. If Paul says it is no longer I who lives...but Christ who lives in me....then how is Paul doing any labour?

And then there's the semantic of Paul operating PHYSICALLY while being empowered SPIRITUALLY.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen, agree with that. And it is sometimes through a tribulation that squeezes and pressures us through the birth canal (narrow way) as it were.


Not sure this is a right way to view the wedding "guests". I had thought it was just a way to represent a many membered Bride without making it seem like polygamy. Anyone who has eternal life is part of the Bride (church - New Jerusalem).

That's a fiction. Many who claim to follow Christ today will spend an eternity in outer darkness. And many will also be guests...it depends on the claims. But the saints are few indeed...especially in these times.

A feel good religion and the way of Christ are mutually exclusive.

 

[shepherdsword]

That's a fiction. Many who claim to follow Christ today will spend an eternity in outer darkness. And many will also be guests...it depends on the claims. But the saints are few indeed...especially in these times.

A feel good religion and the way of Christ are mutually exclusive.

Is outer darkness the same as the lake of fire? If not, what is outer darkness?

 

[ProDeo]

Yes, I fell from a very high place and it was devastating. I was in a daze for the first few years after that. I thought I'd blown it with God...in a permanent rejection. But over time I came to realize that I did great when the grace was raining...but the Lord wanted me to humble myself and be a dew seeker...seeking His touch in the early morning every day. DAVID was able to glean the dew every day...it's old school, but it works! So if there is no rain, there is still the dew. Righteousness is about DEW-ing. ;) I am at great peace now...the most peace I have ever known apart from being in the kingdom realm. :)


My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distill as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Deut 32:2


There are guests (the righteous) and there is the Bride (saints) but there is a third category...the devout, the Chasidim, who are like precious stones to God. The devout ones. That's where I see myself now. My heart has known the glorious path, and my mind has been renewed to understand things that are mysterious and that almost no one can relate to. But it is all for God's glory. I rejoice in the Lord in whatever capacity I am given.

Still one question,

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Is this still needed in your theology ?

 

[marks]

A feel good religion and the way of Christ are mutually exclusive.

Whatever we may disagree over, this is most certainly true!

Much love!

 

[Behold]

So how does one seek God for this empowerment into a higher walk?

The answer to your questions Is no mystery.

If you want a higher walk with God then you have to get more revelation from Him.
So, you study Paul's Epistles, as Paul is your NT teacher, as he wrote all the Church Doctrine.

Also..

If you want a higher walk......then you would have a conversation with God and tell Him that you want to surrender your life to Him.
But dont tell Him this, unless you are willing to surrender you life, from now on... no turning back.
What can that mean?
It can mean that your entire life is completely changed in a way you didnt expect .

Let me show you what that can mean....

I could tell you about my Ministry and call and what's happened to me.... but, i'll tell you about my younger Brothers instead.
Around '1996, he had finished Belmont College IN Nashville with an advanced degree in Business and Music, and then went to work in Nashville TN for Hewlett Packard.
So that is almost 3 decades ago.
He was always very faithful to God, and was always a part of His Local Church..... all of his life.
When HP hired Him, as a "middle manager", they started him with a $100,000 USD salary per year. Robert was not married, and now hes in his early 20's, making $100,000 a yr, almost 30 yrs ago......so that is about $206,000 USD a year in '2025.
You might say, .."" he had it made.""" Young, healthy, good looking, born again, and making a lot of money for a '22 yr old.
And then this happened...... He went to his usual Sunday Morning Service at "Christ Church" in Nashville, and this particular Sunday morning they had a guest speaker...
He was a missionary, and during His message my Brother heard God call Him into the Mission field.

So what did my brother do?

1.) He resigned from HP the next week, and that left him with NO INCOME.

2.) God called Him to be a missionary to the Ukraine......"Odessa".

That is all He knew, and all he could do was wait on God to open doors and confirm the call.
His Stepfather, A Christian.... who loves Him very much, told him that he was making a mistake......leaving such a great job.. the security.... ect, ect.

My Brother didnt listen to His stepfather.

So, what happened?

Fast fowarder .......25+ yrs.

He is now the director of Missions for "Mission to the World". for 25 yrs obo... (Prebyterian denomination).
He has spent his last 30 years on the Mission Field.. Living in "Odessa" Ukraine, right until Putin invaded.
During this 30 Yrs in the Ukraine ..>>He built 2 Churches... opened a "soup kitchen" for the Poor, and an orphanage for the Odessa Street Orphans.
He met and married His wife, whom He met on the Mission Field. They have 3 girls who are now in their 20s, and all very successful, and they worked with my brother and wife on the Mission Field until their High School Years, and then sometimes afterwards.

So, that is what can happen if you tell God "im yours".

Just remember that... as God is always looking for someone who is willing to lay down their life for Him.
Someone like my Brother, or someone like Charlie Kirk.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's a fiction. Many who claim to follow Christ today will spend an eternity in outer darkness. And many will also be guests...it depends on the claims. But the saints are few indeed...especially in these times.

A feel good religion and the way of Christ are mutually exclusive.

The invitation to be a guest at the wedding is the invitation to come to Christ isn't it? Nothing more and nothing less. The parable of the ten virgins is similar in the same respect we are talking about, a many membered Bride.

The joy of the Lord is our strength, but the Lord portions it out according to His wisdom and as we have genuine need, not to spoil us with feeling good. There is a time/season to laugh and a time/season to mourn.

 

[Lizbeth]

sister , a dire reminder is now necessary for us all . THIS WORLD is gonna hate us sister .
Dont worry about being accused or even name called . Worry me for those who are following another jesus .
HE AINT CHANGED one bit sister , Epi has not changed his beleif . It aint the gospel sister .
Too many are getting caught up with trying to get along and find common ground .
May i die long before i do . Seriously i had sooner be dragged through the streets on a cart
with all this unified so called love throwing all kinds of things at me and hurling insults
at me , as they lead me to my own death . THAN TO SELL ONE WORD OF GOD OUT . i aint budging sister
and i will not conform . My mind has been made up since even when we first met
and its only doubling down now . No conforming for me sister . the cost will be the cost .
I know it can be or seem to be at times a lonely road and IT WILL GET ONLY WORSE .
YOU HOLD the course sister . I know what that man beleives and what he has said .
And he aint changed his mind one bit about THAT .

No indeed, I'm not worried. I've been treated worse elsewhere, as you might remember. Just trying to help Epi see how his assumptions and attitude are wrong and sinful. If he has a conscience and the ability to empathize.

 

[Episkopos]

Is outer darkness the same as the lake of fire? If not, what is outer darkness?

Being cast away from God's presence where there is no light...God Himself being the only light in the next age.

 

[Episkopos]

Still one question,

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Is this still needed in your theology ?

All have sinned in the past and will continue to sin as long as the outer man remains uncrucified. Jesus came to set us free...but we have to forsake our lives as we know them in a full surrender to be dealt with at the cross of Christ. There are many here who are enemies of the cross even as they claim to trust in Jesus and the cross ...as long as it is self-serving. These will say I'm wrong for preaching a cross with the power to save FROM sin. Watch these and take note. They justify themselves with a popular twisted gospel that champions the flesh and pets the ego.

Wilful sins like these are NOT forgiven.


But make no mistake, in Christ there is NO sin. Christ is NOT a minister of sin. The gospel is NOT business as usual with us being limited to what we can do in our own strength.

 

[ProDeo]

All have sinned in the past and will continue to sin as long as the outer man remains uncrucified. Jesus came to set us free...but we have to forsake our lives as we know them in a full surrender to be dealt with at the cross of Christ. There are many here who are enemies of the cross even as they claim to trust in Jesus and the cross ...as long as it is self-serving. These will say I'm wrong for preaching a cross with the power to save FROM sin. Watch these and take note. They justify themselves with a popular twisted gospel that champions the flesh and pets the ego.

Wilful sins like these are NOT forgiven.


But make no mistake, in Christ there is NO sin. Christ is NOT a minister of sin. The gospel is NOT business as usual with us being limited to what we can do in our own strength.

Second time you dodge a direct question.

 

[Episkopos]

Second time you dodge a direct question.

I'm the only one here with the honesty (except Shep) to answer questions. I have asked you a few and you will never respond...and I don't expect that kind of honesty. Why be honest when honesty is not required for salvation...in the popular mindset.

But I answered your question in depth...if you could see and perceive.

All have sinned...and we are bound to the law of sin and death until we are freed at the cross of Christ. Nowhere in the bible is the gospel about constant forgiveness for constant sinning. And for my message of truth I am disparaged...which is a good thing for me. I would rather that some get honest, for their own sake.

 

[ProDeo]

I'm the only one here with the honesty (except Shep) to answer questions. I have asked you a few and you will never respond...and I don't expect that kind of honesty. Why be honest when honesty is not required for salvation...in the popular mindset.

But I answered your question in depth...if you could see and perceive.

All have sinned...and we are bound to the law of sin and death until we are freed at the cross of Christ. Nowhere in the bible is the gospel about constant forgiveness for constant sinning. And for my message of truth I am disparaged...which is a good thing for me. I would rather that some get honest, for their own sake.

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The apostle John is addressing BELIEVERS, he calls them my little children.

1Joh 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

He is saying, nobody is without sin, those who claim without sin deceive themselves, make Jesus a liar.

Speak openly, not cryptic, this is very serious, are you without sin ?

~~~~

Secondly, when we come to Christ, are born again, when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, what happens?, do you still remember? A miracle, suddenly we don't want to sin any longer or displease Him, right?

Why do you even think you are above the rest of us ?

 

[Episkopos]

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is against those who believe that they are not responsible for sin....the Gnostics....like Behold. These deny that people sin by nature and that Jesus wipes out even the sins they commit all the time. So John is given them a reality check.

The apostle John is addressing BELIEVERS, he calls them my little children.

1Joh 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

If people sin from the abiding place in Christ it doesn't mean they are lost forever.

He is saying, nobody is without sin, those who claim without sin deceive themselves, make Jesus a liar.

Speak openly, not cryptic, this is very serious, are you without sin ?

You would have to read my posts again maybe using reading glasses. I explained my testimony. What you should ask is...did I sin when I was in the higher walk> The answer is no...not until I did and fell out of the Spirit....falling from grace.

~~~~

Secondly, when we come to Christ, are born again, when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, what happens?, do you still remember? A miracle, suddenly we don't want to sin any longer or displease Him, right?

A sample of grace is just that. It is meant to inform us and invite us into a full surrender as I have told you over and over. How many of you are there?

Why do you even think you are above the rest of us ?

I am presently on the same level as you...but a whole lot more informed!!! Not even close.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It depends on the level one is walking at. If Paul says it is no longer I who lives...but Christ who lives in me....then how is Paul doing any labour?

OK, so 1 Corinthians 3:9 is a lie, got it.

 

[ProDeo]

This is against those who believe that they are not responsible for sin....the Gnostics....like Behold. These deny that people sin by nature and that Jesus wipes out even the sins they commit all the time. So John is given them a reality check.

Good morning Epi,

It's for all of us. And the apostle John wasn't talking to gnostics.

1John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.
1John 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father.
1John 2:14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Let's use some more Scripture.

If people sin from the abiding place in Christ it doesn't mean they are lost forever.

I think so too.

You would have to read my posts again maybe using reading glasses. I explained my testimony. What you should ask is...did I sin when I was in the higher walk> The answer is no...not until I did and fell out of the Spirit....falling from grace.

I don't believe in the what you have called - the higher walk, I think the right (and Biblical) phrase is - abide in Him -

1Joh 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
1Joh 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1Joh 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1Joh 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Joh 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Joh 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Joh 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Joh 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Joh 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Joh 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Abide in Him, pray without ceasing[1 Thessalonians 5:17 and Ephesians 6:18], capture every thought [2 Cor 10:3-6] is how we protect ourselves from sin and when do sin after all it is not willingly [3:9] and we don't fall from grace as you believe, however when it is willingly (I can not imagine that) then I will agree with you, that is falling from grace and needs repentance.

A sample of grace is just that. It is meant to inform us and invite us into a full surrender as I have told you over and over. How many of you are there?

Speaking for myself, not just a sample of grace, it was life changing, second blessing (the terminology of the holiness movement) was indeed about complete surrender and complete obedience.

I am presently on the same level as you...but a whole lot more informed!!! Not even close.

You win, I surrender.