Understanding PARABLES
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Unjust.
So the President of the company has an accountant that's been accused of cooking the books.
He knows he's about to get fired.
So he goes to the companies customers and gives them discounts on the money they owe the President of the company.
So hoping? that when he gets fired these customers will provide for him?
And the President commends him for being wise.
And the moral of the story is????
Stealing is ok as long as you have a back up plan?
Luk 16:8
And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Wiser than the children of light.
Sneakier than truth.
Luk 16:9
And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
This sounds more like a threat to me. Maybe I don't want to be recieved into "their" everlasting habitations....
Luk 16:10
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Luk 16:11
If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Luk 16:12
And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Luk 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luk 16:14
And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Mammon of unrighteousness.
Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
In other words: You reap what you sow.
Just thinking...
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Jack, can you not imagine the story of the rich man comparing to something heavenly, some example of something greater? Because that's what parables are. That is what the world is. Even Christ is a parable.
Do you not understand that God speaks in parables, to reveal the things of heaven, of Himself, and things to come?
Do you not understand that every word of scripture is revelation from God--even those things of history--by His design? Or that man created in the image of God is a parable? That Noah's ark is a parable? That forty years of wandering in the desert is a parable of our lifetime in this world? That the serpent raised up in the desert was Christ, but made the bite of the serpent--Satan harmless? That David was a parable of Jesus, as was Solomon? That the Lamb of God is not a sheep? That manna from heaven is the Word from God? etc., etc?
Can you not imagine these things? Is it all just words to live by in this world to you--like the words of a self-help book?
Jesus makes up HORROR stories? Nah.
His warnings are clear. BILLIONS of humans will burn FOREVER!
JLB
Well-Known Member
‘First of all, faith comes from God.
Believe is our part that we either do or don’t do.
The unbiblical “theory” that a person is saved first, then later on they believe is totally unscriptural.
The way an unsaved person becomes saved, born again is by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.
It’s confessing with the mouth, the Lord Jesus, and believing in our heart God raised Him from the dead.
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
JLB
Well-Known Member
‘The statement you made … In the end, all who have died in Adam will be made alive in Christ. This is true Gospel of Christ.
That is what Christian Universalism teaches.
Dear JLB,
If a person has been given faith by God, they will believe in Him. How can a person have faith in Christ but then not believe in Him as you contend? Your argument does not make sense.
For a person to begin the salvation process, Christ will come to them and give them the Early Rain. The Early Rain is a small measure of the Holy Spirit. It is not the baptism of the Spirit (Latter Rain). Most people in the churches of this world believe that when they first believed, they were given the baptism of the Holy Spirit but that is not what they received. Everyone begins their journey to salvation when they are given the Early Rain.
The Early Rain is what causes a person to make a confession of faith after they hear the Gospel:
Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man (by the Early Rain), and the answer of the tongue (confession of faith), is from the LORD.
After a person makes their confession of faith, they will enter the church and begin following Christ as a "babe" in Christ.
If a person does not already have the Early Rain of the Spirit when they are presented the Gospel, they will not accept it. This is the spiritual state of most of the people in this world and is why they reject Christ.
The Apostles received the Early Rain when they walked with Christ. Because they were freely given this gift of the Spirit, Christ told them that they had been blessed:
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
The scripture below is where Christ tells Peter why he was able to "see" who He actually is:
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Peter was given the Early Rain, and for that reason only, Peter was able to recognize Jesus as the Christ. If Peter had not been given this gift, Peter would have not been a follower of Christ.
When Christ gives a person the Early Rain, they will have a "measure of faith" (Rom 12:3 & Eph 2:8). Their faith is what justifies them before God and the Law. However, the person is not converted and saved yet. To be saved, a person must have both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by the judgment of Christ (Day of the Lord).
Before Paul's death, many of the people who were given the Early Rain remained faithful while they waited for the Lord to return to pour out the Latter Rain. But after Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ entered the world and devoured the babes in the churches. As a result of the babes' acceptance of Satan's "another gospel" (2Cor 11:4) which mixes man's works with faith, all the babes became unfaithful and apostate. This has continued to happen to all the babes throughout this age. No babe has been spared.
A babe becomes apostate because they remain spiritually blind after being given the Early Rain. Paul's blindness while in Damascus "typed" this truth. In this blind condition, a babe is unable to understand the New Covenant teachings of Christ. Because they can't understand, Satan will easily deceive them.
This is what the scripture below is teaching:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).
And this scripture, too:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.
The parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the parable of the Ten Virgins, the parable of the Leavened Bread, the parable of the Fowls of the Air and several others, all teach that babes in Christ will experience a time of being apostate. This is when a babe will experience a "strong delusion" (indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ) so that they will believe a "lie" (the lie that Satan is Christ/angel of light).
2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
The time that every babe spends in an apostate condition is also called a time of great tribulation and the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.
Because the Elect are blessed and have been chosen for an early salvation, Christ will not let them remain in their apostate condition until they die. Their days as a man of sin will be shortened (Mat 24:22). Their days are shortened when Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism) upon them. With the Latter Rain, a babe will be restored to faith and will be "born again" as a child of God (no longer a babe).
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer babes), ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It is at this time that the person will call on the name of the Lord and be saved:
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and notable Day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The newly born child of God will then be able to see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15). This is also when the man of sin is revealed to them (2Thes 2:8).
Joe
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No need to mention names. Luke 16 is Truth. Jesus said so. The rich man died but was quite alive in the fire.
JLB
Well-Known Member
Not true.
I don’t know you told you that, but that is not biblical.
We receive faith from God when we hear the Gospel.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17
- faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
If we believe we will be saved.
If we do not believe we won’t.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Everyone in this group heard the Gospel and therefore they received faith because they heard.
- Those by the wayside are the ones who hear;
The problem was they didn’t believe.
JLB
Well-Known Member
So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. Luke 16:22-25
Brother, do you believe these words of Jesus Christ about literal people like Abraham and Lazarus in literal places in the heart of the earth, like hell and speaking literal words are just made up?
- But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
These are words our Lord said. If Abraham didn’t say these words then why would Jesus say he did?
Wouldn‘t you agree that would be a lie?
Come on bro, I know you don’t believe that.
JLB
What Jesus said is the truth.
But if you mean that the passage is not a parable, that much is not true. For all the world is a parable--all things made manifest, are manifest for revelation of what is true in heaven. Such is the meaning of "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Therefore, I have told more than a few-- "So shall it be written."
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Dear JLB,
I will explain it again in a more summarized way:
A person who has not been given the Holy Spirit will never believe in Christ or have faith in Him after they have been presented the Gospel. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel but only to those who have been blessed to be given the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit, the Gospel is nothing more than "foolishness" to them:
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
Since all believers start off following Christ as "babes" (Early Rain only) who remain carnally minded and spiritually blind, the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant will be mostly veiled from their understanding. A babe can understand the physical work that Christ performed under the Old Covenant (Christ and Him crucified, 1Cor 2:2) but the spiritual work that Christ is presently doing under the New Covenant will be mostly veiled from their understanding. As a result of them remaining carnally minded and spiritually blind, a babe will fall away and become unfaithful to Christ. This happens because the babe will spiritually fornicate with Satan and begin following his crooked way of "works" instead of Christ's straight way of "faith".
Because the Early Rain will not convert a person from being a child of the Devil into a new child of God, Christ will "come again" to the Elect babes. When Christ comes to them a second time, He will pour out the Latter Rain (the baptism of the Holy Spirit) upon them. The Latter Rain will come in strength and power and will heal their spiritual blindness. Once healed, Christ will spiritually appear to them and feed them His bread and wine of the New Covenant. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and the spiritual fulfillment of the Lord's Supper.
Paul's blindness and inability to eat or drink for three days in Damascus was when Paul typed the true spiritual condition of a babe in Christ (Early Rain only). After the three days were finished, Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit which caused the scales to fall from Paul's eyes. This represented the healing of Paul's spiritual blindness. Only then was Paul able to "eat meat" and be strengthened so that He could walk by faith and by the Spirit. This is what Christ will do to save a person. The person contributes nothing to the process.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Here is the parable you quoted:
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
In verse 12, "those on the wayside" are unbelievers who have not been given the Early Rain. They are not on the pathway that leads to salvation. When they hear the Gospel, they cannot believe and be saved. They remain under Satan's deceptions.
In verse 13, those "on the rock" are babes who have been given the Early Rain. They are on the pathway that leads to salvation. They believe and have faith in Christ "for a while" but quickly "fall away" because of the deceptions of Satan that comes to them by the spirit of anti-Christ.
In verse 14, it is also talking about babes who were given the Early Rain. They cannot bring forth fruit of the Spirit because of the "cares and riches of this life". In other words, they remain carnally minded and care only for the things of the flesh and not for the things of the Spirit. They remain unconverted and cannot produce fruit of the Spirit.
In verse 15, the seed that falls on the "good ground" are the Elect who have been given both the Early and Latter Rains. They are converted and have been "born again" as a child of God. As the child of God matures into a "man of full age", they will bring forth fruit of the Spirit "with patience".
Joe
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