Rapture ... soon?

[Grailhunter]

Ah, now this I disagree with. Paul was... pretty specific about the importance (to put it mildly) of marriage and family in Ephesians 5, for example... How would you back this up?

Since you cannot read it is not worth the effort for me to get into this to far.
The Apostle Paul gave marriage up as a concession to prevent sin.
He talks very little about marriage but he did point out that marriage can be a distraction from God.

 

[WPM]

Precious friend, already did/tried to do that = NO interest in studying God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

Only comments like "Bible choppers, pre-Fibbers, heretics, a direct lie, etc. etc. etc."... , so NO further discussion needed, eh?

See all true Grace believers in God's Great GloryLand ♫ ↑

Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love

Amen.

So. You have no answer? Just like i suspected. Why do you believe it then?

 

[Davidpt]

Ironic that you have taken an erroneous position , while accusing us of the same thing you are doing.

Pretrib rapture is what Jesus taught.

I can quite handily defend his words.

Take any one of the pretrib rapture verses and we can go toe to toe.

First you need to know them.
That is problematic.
I know your doctrine.
You, or any postribber, does not know where the rapture verses are, yet through that omission, and men of old with limited Revelation, formulated your doctrine off of false supposition and omission.

No thank you.
You are GUARANTEED error.

Unfortunately, this post ended up way too lengthy. Sorry about that. One can either read all of it or not read all of it, or even not read any of it. That's up to them. That aside.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

It is all about perspective. A lot of interpreters agree that the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming. Therefore, those worshiping it are going to be feeling a sense of peace and safety since the beast would not be hunting them down, persecuting them, nor killing some of them, if they are worshiping it instead. Not to mention, they will be buying and selling freely with no restrictions being put upon them.

OTOH, the saints won't equally be saying peace and safety if the wrath of the beast is upon them. Once again then, it's all about perspective. Though it will be involving great tribulation, it won't be involving great tribulation upon those worshiping the beast the same way it will be involving great tribulation upon those not worshiping the beast. IOW, great tribulation doesn't affect everyone in the same manner, the same way God's wrath after great tribulation does not affect everyone in the same manner. The saved, God's wrath will have zero affect on them. The lost, God's wrath will have full affect on them.



Let me show something here using Genesis 6-7 and Matthew 24 to do so. Before I do so, obviously, 1 Thessalonians 5:3 isn't meaning Noah's flood nor am I acting like it is. Yet that is beside the point.

Two things are happening in verse 3 above, though. First they are saying peace and safety, we'll call that A). Then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape, we'll call that B).


Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose

In Matthew 24:38 Jesus indicated that Genesis 6:2 meant this at the time---For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage

Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Equally in Matthew 24:38-39 Jesus indicated verses 16-18 above equaled this at the time---until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away


Let's think outside of the box here for a moment, keeping in mind what I initially said regarding 1 Thessalonians 5:3, that we will call this part, A), and we will call this part, B).

With that in mind, which one, A) or B), fits Genesis 6:2? Which one, A) or B), Genesis 7:16-18? Unless someone has major reasoning issues, no one is going to conclude that A) fits Genesis 7:16-18. Nor is anyone going to conclude that B) fits Genesis 6:2. Therefore, we need to apply this same reasoning to Matthew 24:38-39.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,(this equals A))
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away(this equals B)); so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

There is no sudden destruction occurring during any of this prior to the coming of the Son of man--they are eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. There is no one still saying peace and safety during any of this---until the flood came, and took them all away--where this is involving the coming of the Son of man.

My entire point is this. There can't be sudden destruction unless a sense of peace and safety precedes it, unless one wants to argue that Paul lied to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:3. And that no one is going to argue and be taken seriously, that this in Matthew 24:38-39--And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away---does not equal this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3---then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Therefore, this in Matthew 24:38--eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark--has to mean this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3--when they shall say, Peace and safety--since it can't mean this in 1 Thessalonians 5:3---then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[MatthewG]

Since you cannot read it is not worth the effort for me to get into this to far.
The Apostle Paul gave marriage up as a concession to prevent sin.
He talks very little about marriage but he did point out that marriage can be a distraction from God.

Yeah but those things dont matter today as much as they did then. The times were serious... and they were in charge of keeping them together.

I know that this remains conjunctioned in the narrative of context and content.

"God has reconciled the world unto himself through Christ" - meaning that He is no longer angry at the wrodl. It just siimply menas people have to chose to look to him or not. Regardless if they get married or not at this time it doesnt matter.....

It mattered then because of trying to keep the church bride pure... spotless, unblemished, Paul wrote to people concerning these things.



Marriage is actually fine today, - and its unorthodox but I don't care for the marriage of men and men and women of women - whiel its not an orthodox standpoint, I still stand with the connection of true marriage is between a man and a woman.


But I dont think God is mad with all these folks out here doing whatever they choose to do - I believe at the end of the day he is looking at the heart, and he knows those who call on him and look towards him DESPITE the judgments of others.

 

[WPM]

Nope, read the text. Do you want me to copy it here and to color the exact stages of the last days as predicted by Jesus, in chronological order?

The last days began with the earthly ministry of Christ. They end at the glorious future physical return of Christ. It is there for all the see who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[PinSeeker]

Since you cannot read it is not worth the effort for me to get into this to far.

LOL! I can read... and laugh, too. <smile>

The Apostle Paul gave marriage up as a concession to prevent sin.

Paul was talking about the sin of lust, Grailhunter. He said, "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7). He was not ~ not ~ talking about, much less denigrating, the institution of marriage, which was established by God Himself with Adam and Eve. And God hates divorce, as you will remember, I think, from Malachi 2:16... “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless." Surely you would agree that marriage is one of the great themes though the Bible... On the ultimate level, we are the bride of Christ, after all, looking forward to the marriage supper of the Lamb...

He talks very little about marriage but he did point out that marriage can be a distraction from God.

Agreed, but that's not about the institution of marriage itself, but about our sinfulness.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL! I can read... and laugh, too. <smile>


Paul was talking about the sin of lust, Grailhunter. He said, "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7). He was not ~ not ~ talking about, much less denigrating, the institution of marriage, which was established by God Himself with Adam and Eve. And God hates divorce, as you will remember, I think, from Malachi 2:16... “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless." Surely you would agree that marriage is one of the great themes though the Bible... On the ultimate level, we are the bride of Christ, after all, looking forward to the marriage supper of the Lamb...


Agreed, but that's not about the institution of marriage itself, but about our sinfulness.

Grace and peace to you.

Like I said he also said marriage was a distraction from God.

 

[soberxp]

Like I said he also said marriage was a distraction from God.

I don't know if you believe it, but once I opened one of my Bibles, and I saw something different, and it said, Each of the twelve disciples was assigned a wife with them. I couldn't believe my eyes.

But I'm not sure if that's literal or

proverbs 18:22
Whoso findeth a (virtuous) wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

 

[WPM]

False. Though many Christians would prefer not to be appointed to Gid's wrath during the most terrifying time of distress in history, I think we'll have to go through some of it and be taken out at the the 7th Trumpet ( has been my view for a long time), hence being spared the 7 bowls of wrath. It's a trumpet blown by an angel NOT a shofar. Which us why I was not convinced about Joshua's prediction - but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Why? Because I am flexible and willing to accept that I am wrong.
>"Damn rapture theory"? <
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Q Thes..4:16-17
In Greek, Harpazo, means to be snatched away, carried off, seized, taken up or caught up. IT IS THE RESSURECTION! Don't curse it!
1 Cor. 15:51-52 also describes this event:
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I am looking forward to that event!

You are so caught up in your own error that you do not seem to understand that God's wrath is never upon the righteous. I don't know where you are getting that from. Also, you do not seem to understand the difference between the wrath of God upon the wicked and the wrath of antichrist against the righteous at the end before Jesus comes.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't know if you believe it, but once I opened one of my Bibles, and I saw something different, and it said, Each of the twelve disciples was assigned a wife with them. I couldn't believe my eyes.

But I'm not sure if that's literal or

proverbs 18:22
Whoso findeth a (virtuous) wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Find this in the New Testament.

 

[PinSeeker]

Like I said he also said marriage was a distraction from God.

It could distract one from God, sure, but that says nothing about the institution of marriage itself. Again, God's instituted marriage Himself, so a man and a woman being married is a good thing... and a foretaste of the true marriage of Jesus to His church.

Hey, in the same vein... yes, it is... <smile>... should we all pluck our eyes out, since our eyes cause us to sin... yes, they do... <smile> ...from time to time? I mean, Jesus said, "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away..." Well no, of course not... it's all about the gravity of sin in the eyes of God, and our proneness to it.

Find this in the New Testament.

"The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed" (Augustine). And the book of Proverbs is all about obtaining the wisdom of God... which is personified in Christ Jesus... which has no time boundary (to steal your own words).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[MatthewG]

You are so caught up in your own error that you do not seem to understand that God's wrath is never upon the righteous. I don't know where you are getting that from. Also, you do not seem to understand the difference between the wrath of God upon the wicked and the wrath of antichrist against the righteous at the end before Jesus comes.

Some people say that the "wrath of God fell on Jesus Christ." That is also a known lie that gets trifled with. While it pleased God to crush his Son, it was not wrath poured upon him... that is just the most ridiculous statement.

 

[soberxp]

Find this in the New Testament.

No, I know there's no place in the Bible that describes what I saw, because my Bible was sealed, I was afraid to read the book again, and then I burned it out of anger.

 

[Grailhunter]

It could distract one from God, sure, but that says nothing about the institution of marriage itself. Again, God's instituted marriage Himself, so a man and a woman being married is a good thing... and a foretaste of the true marriage of Jesus to His church.

Yeap God did start the institution of marriage.
But my point is that marriage and the focus on the family was not promoted during the New Testament because they believed they were living in the last days and saving people was the high priority.

It was the Protestants that brought marriage and the focus on the family into Christianity. They were the first to require a church wedding to be married.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, I know there's no place in the Bible that describes what I saw, because my Bible was sealed, I was afraid to read the book again, and then I burned it out of anger.

WOW

 

[Davidpt]

The last days began with the earthly ministry of Christ. They end at the glorious future physical return of Christ. It is there for all the see who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Not to get into this debate. Obviously, the last days involve a last day, and that it matters about the length of the last day. Is it meaning 24 hours or less? Or is it meaning 1000 years or more? Either way, this same last day occurs during the last days, but not after the last days, even if it is meaning the latter. That still wouldn't make it mean after the last days.

 

[MatthewG]

Yeap God did start the institution of marriage.
But my point is that marriage and the focus on the family was not promoted during the New Testament because they believed they were living in the last days and saving people was the high priority.

It was the Protestants that brought marriage and the focus on the family into Christianity. They were the first to require a church wedding to be married.

Well some people would say its absolutely forbidden to marry anyone...

That some cult stuff...

If a person wants to get married, they most assuredly can... if they so want that.

There are people be like OH MY GOD THE WORLD GONNA END AND JESUS GONNA COME BACK I MIGHT AS WELL JUST NOT EVEN GET A FAMILY PERIOD....


Its a mental thing... and there is nothing wrong with people getting married today.. if a persons heart is known by God regardless of judgemnets from others.

 

[MatthewG]

Not to get into this debate. Obviously, the last days involve a last day, and that it matters about the length of the last day. Is it meaning 24 hours or less? Or is it meaning 1000 years or more? Either way, this same same last day occurs during the last days, but not after the last days, even if it is meaning the latter. That still wouldn't make it mean after the last days.

@Davidpt,

It means the fullness of the time, the completion. 1000 years ... even still used today, after the fact of 2000 years gone by is moot point at this end of discussion.... in 70Ad, the wrath of God was poured upon Israel... the great and dreadful event promised to come from Jesus, and Malachi. The end of the age had come upon them with John the baptist and Jesus having shown up, and the stretch of time was for people to decide, 40 years worth of time just as the LORD let a entire generation of people pass away after 40 years in the wilderness. The same premise consist when Jesus spoke concerning the end of the age which would come in 40 years.... the completion of time.


You are wanting to get into a debate if you are sharing these things, unless you dont have some contradictory statement, then yeah you for sure didnt want to debate.

 

[soberxp]

WOW

Because my anger came from my inability to convince people to believe in Jesus Christ, I was angry that I couldn't save them, I was angry at God's inaction, so I struck that book, and then a sealed mark grew on it.

After that, I saw those things,

but perhaps out of fear of seeing more,

or perhaps still driven by that anger,

I burned that miraculous book.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well some people would say its absolutely forbidden to marry anyone...

That some cult stuff...

If a person wants to get married, they most assuredly can... if they so want that.

There are people be like OH MY GOD THE WORLD GONNA END AND JESUS GONNA COME BACK I MIGHT AS WELL JUST NOT EVEN GET A FAMILY PERIOD....


Its a mental thing... and there is nothing wrong with people getting married today.. if a persons heart is known by God regardless of judgemnets from others.

Facts are facts.
And facts are not about what we like or dislike.
But I fully support what the Protestant did and I love weddings.