Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[shepherdsword]

This is for those who have a very short attention span... God imputes righteousness without works just like He imputes righteousness by works. 2 things can be right at the same time.
Check out Phinehas and how he was justified by God...imputed righteousness for killing two transgressors.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I really struggle with your statement that righteousness can be imputed by works. We do see this happen but it was under the old covenant of the Levitical priesthood

Nu 25:10-13
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

 

[marks]

We show our character in our words, like it or not! Whether we claim great things for ourselves, whether we lord ourselves over others, it's all revealed in our words.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

We show our character in our words, like it or not! Whether we claim great things for ourselves, whether we lord ourselves over others, it's all revealed in our words.

Much love!

Ah words dont mean anything online man. You could be really bad person on that side of the screen but hell we all are and thats why we need Yeshua to get to Yahweh.

People like protray perfection when in reality it doesnt exist, and no one is better than the next person ever...

and God doesnt have any favorites! How nice!


Actually they say Actions speaks louder than words, and that is why I dont even like using the expression of words "I love you." I hate it.... Cause I use to lie to my mother about loving her so much.

 

[shepherdsword]

I believe in salvation by faith but I can't find a single place where anyone is judged by anything but works:

Mt 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Can anyone else? I mean, the statement above by the Lord seems to be more than being some sort of judgment for rewards. As everyone who claims the work judgements are for.

 

[soberxp]

By read and learning =30
By faith = 60
By faith and work = 100

 

[Lizbeth]

Spoken as a true pretender. And a bald-faced liar. I don't rebuke people because they are not walking in the higher walk...that is your deafness and blindness at work. I know how impossible the higher walk is for we humans. I rebuke people because they CLAIM to be something they are not...they are pretenders...like yourself, naming and claiming things that only those who are actually in the higher walk can claim.

And since I actually know that walk, I can point out that it's not something that carnal men can claim. I appeal to wisdom and humility...but pride and ego twist my words around to make it seem I'm the one doing the pretending. Such is the way of hypocrites.

And why do so many pretend? Because the bible is being read with self-interest...an illegal act in God's eyes. But hypocrites don't know that...AND, they won't be warned.

So while I'm in the normal "lower" walk, I exhort my fellow believers AGAINST making false claims...and if someone has believed themselves to be something they are not...then to "self-deport" and make a true application for entrance "legally" into the kingdom realm...to walk as Jesus walked.

Since you are calling me a "bald-faced liar" I thought I better post the proof to back up what I said:

post #712, page 36

Lizbeth quoted this:

Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Episkopos responded with this:

On "himself" . Jesus took on himself the sins of the world. I hope you realize that Jesus was without sin. So God would never condemn His Son as a sinner. That is pure fiction.


And what are we to call someone who by his own words has not been walking in this "higher walk" that he speaks of for 23 years, but he rebukes and reproves people for not doing what he hasn't been doing in all this time. Here are some examples:

Post #181, page 10

Do we get more slack from the Father than Jesus who said...Follow Me?

You are, as many here, confusing Testaments...still relying on the power of the flesh with God winking and tolerating our limitations. Modern doctrines are deeply rooted in denying the power of the gospel, the cross, and the power of grace extended to us through resurrection life. The church is full of "believers" who walk in unbelief. It may be the new normal, but it doesn't mean that's acceptable to God.

Look instead at our responsibility to obey and surrender rather than how much work we can do for God.

Lord, Lord, we did so much in Your Name......



#182, page 10

You are not receiving the truth as a child...and entering into the kingdom. Neither are you growing in knowledge and understanding as an adult. You are doing neither righteousness or holiness. You are not entering into the kingdom realm yourself and trying to stop others from entering.



#306, page 16

There is no sin in Christ...to enter into Christ (abide) means you have been purged from sin. Do you deny the resurrection? Do you deny the power of the gospel? Grace? The cross of Christ?

Repent from your powerless flesh and turn to God.


Do you have the right to talk to people like this? Shouldn't you be heeding your own words or at the very least be speaking with humility?

 

[soberxp]

By read and learning =30
By faith = 60
By faith and work = 100

 

[marks]

I believe in salvation by faith but I can't find a single place where anyone is judged by anything but works:

Mt 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Can anyone else? I mean, the statement above by the Lord seems to be more than being some sort of judgment for rewards. As everyone who claims the work judgements are for.

There are a couple of things said here, one being that their works are actually iniquity, but the other statement, "I never knew you".

John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

They never had eternal life.

Revelation 20:12-15 KJV
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is a judgment of the dead, not the living. Those not found in the book of life will be tossed into the lake of fire. The only way to remain in the book of life is by the imputation of God's righteousness as He gives one life in Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Since you are calling me a "bald-faced liar" I thought I better post the proof:

post #712, page 36

Lizbeth quoted this:

Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Episkopos responded with this:

On "himself" . Jesus took on himself the sins of the world. I hope you realize that Jesus was without sin. So God would never condemn His Son as a sinner. That is pure fiction.


And what are we to call someone who by his own words has not been walking in this "higher walk" that he speaks of for 23 years, but he rebukes and reproves people for not doing what he hasn't been doing in all this time. Here are some examples:

Post #181, page 10

Do we get more slack from the Father than Jesus who said...Follow Me?

You are, as many here, confusing Testaments...still relying on the power of the flesh with God winking and tolerating our limitations. Modern doctrines are deeply rooted in denying the power of the gospel, the cross, and the power of grace extended to us through resurrection life. The church is full of "believers" who walk in unbelief. It may be the new normal, but it doesn't mean that's acceptable to God.

Look instead at our responsibility to obey and surrender rather than how much work we can do for God.

Lord, Lord, we did so much in Your Name......



#182, page 10

You are not receiving the truth as a child...and entering into the kingdom. Neither are you growing in knowledge and understanding as an adult. You are doing neither righteousness or holiness. You are not entering into the kingdom realm yourself and trying to stop others from entering.



#306, page 16

There is no sin in Christ...to enter into Christ (abide) means you have been purged from sin. Do you deny the resurrection? Do you deny the power of the gospel? Grace? The cross of Christ?

Repent from your powerless flesh and turn to God.


Do you have the right to talk to people like this? Shouldn't you be heeding your own words or at the very least be speaking with humility?

He speaks as he is. That's all there is to it.

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

There are a couple of things said here, one being that their works are actually iniquity, but the other statement, "I never knew you".

John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

They never had eternal life.

Revelation 20:12-15 KJV
12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is a judgment of the dead, not the living. Those not found in the book of life will be tossed into the lake of fire. The only way to remain in the book of life is by the imputation of God's righteousness as He gives one life in Christ.

Much love!

Much love!

They did many mighty works in His name so they had to have some faith and sure thought they were. "They never had eternal life" is just an opinion presented byb the OSAS crowd. However, the point is that they were judged by works and not by what they claimed to believe.

 

[Lizbeth]

I only said that wicked men put Jesus on the cross. Come on now. Your dishonesty is well noted. Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified. He did not crucify Himself. And your claim that God is unrighteous is unfounded.

I just posted where you said what you said. So I hope my honesty will now be well noted.. And you first said we were not "made" the righteousness of God, but now you are admitting it is not wrong. I of course never said or implied that He crucified Himself.....you have a great skill at gaslighting and confusing the issue and throwing sand in the eyes. Not hard to do that with an older person like me. But I don't think God is impressed or pleased with such skills.

 

[shepherdsword]

I just posted where you said what you said. So I hope my honesty will now be well noted.. And you first said we were not "made" the righteousness of God, but now you are admitting it is not wrong. I of course never said or implied that He crucified Himself.....you have a great skill at gaslighting and confusing the issue and throwing sand in the eyes. Not hard to do that with an older person like me. But I don't think God is impressed or pleased with such skills.

I thought he said that it is God that imputed His righteousness and not something we impute to ourselves?

 

[Behold]

It's the old story of the scavangers forming a mob to attack the truth.

@Episkopos ..... A martyr complex is a psychological pattern .... and when applied to religious people, it's often referred to as a "Christian persecution complex" which is an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
So, In this context, it involves = overemphasizing opposition , fostering a sense of being constantly victimized and misunderstood, and promoting a feeling of being persecuted even when actual persecution is minimal or does not even exist at all.

 

[Lizbeth]

No one can be imputed with God's righteousness....because we are not as righteous as He is.

For the fourth or fifth time Epi........is our new man made in the image of He who created it. or not?. Is His Spirit and nature in us righteous and holy or not? Why do you keep avoiding discussing this?

 

[marks]

They did many mighty works in His name so they had to have some faith and sure thought they were. "They never had eternal life" is just an opinion presented byb the OSAS crowd. However, the point is that they were judged by works and not by what they claimed to believe.

They claimed to do the works, but Jesus called them workers of iniquity. So what they claimed were mighty works in Jesus' name, Jesus showed that false, sent them away, because He had never known them.

Forget about OSAS, this is the passage itself.

Matthew 7:20-23 KJV
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

I thought he said that it is God that imputed His righteousness

What he posted was that no one receives God's righteousness.

He's been posting this for months to ME., and not just to me.
He posted this maybe 20 or 30 times within a few different Threads.
Now TODAY... he's suddenlhy switched to a different theology, and has reversed what he has been saying for months.
He does that a lot because he doesn't reallly know what to believe.
Get use to it.

 

[shepherdsword]

They claimed to do the works, but Jesus called them workers of iniquity. So what they claimed were mighty works in Jesus' name, Jesus showed that false, sent them away, because He had never known them.

Forget about OSAS, this is the passage itself.

Matthew 7:20-23 KJV
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Much love!

We have already discussed what I see as him knowing us so no need to hash that out here as it deflects from the point of my post. Which is...can you present any example of eternal judgement by God that is not based on works? On unbelievers and believers alike.

 

[Episkopos]

I really struggle with your statement that righteousness can be imputed by works. We do see this happen but it was under the old covenant of the Levitical priesthood

Nu 25:10-13
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed. And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore. Ps. 106:30-31

This is not about a Levitical priesthood any more than the faith of Abraham. God justifies by both works AND faith. That much is obvious. The NT is not about works because no one can be translated into the kingdom realm by works...only by grace through faith.

 

[amigo de christo]

I just posted where you said what you said. So I hope my honesty will now be well noted.. And you first said we were not "made" the righteousness of God, but now you are admitting it is not wrong. I of course never said or implied that He crucified Himself.....you have a great skill at gaslighting and confusing the issue and throwing sand in the eyes. Not hard to do that with an older person like me. But I don't think God is impressed or pleased with such skills.

what is even worse is he does things like this on purpose sister .
Others have seen it too . Just march onwards in the LORD .
Till that man repent of his UNBELEIF
he is on his own . This sheep dont sit and eat with any who preaches any other gospel .

 

[marks]

We have already discussed what I see as him knowing us so no need to hash that out here as it deflects from the point of my post. Which is...can you present any example of eternal judgement by God that is not based on works? On unbelievers and believers alike.

There are different aspects to what people think of as judgment. If you consider judgment to include being tossed into the lake of fire, that is based on whether or not your name is in the book of life. There are those who say that your works will determine that, so on and on it goes.

I take a more simple approach. And I do not agree with your understanding of what Jesus meant in never knowing them. That implies a 2-step salvation that only works if you make the second step. That you can "believe in Christ", be saved, but never reach the intimacy so that your salvation "takes".

I don't believe that is Scriptural, as the Bible portrays that being baptized into Christ makes us permanently His.

Much love!