Is the prophetic picture becoming clearer to you with the events that are transpiring in the middle east and or the whole world?

[The PuP]

Firstly, why did Jesus need to be given “all authority in heaven and on earth”?
Did he not already have such authority if he was God incarnate?
Why does Jesus need to “sit at God’s right hand” and wait for his Father to “put his enemies under his feet”?

Sometimes it’s easy to read over what is written without understanding what is actually said.

Again what is this saying? Christ has an inheritance from his Father....so, what is he the “heir” to?
This inheritance is one he had to “wait” for...an “appointed time” when this would occur. For what reason does he need an inheritance...and why does he have to wait?
It says in Psalm 110:1-2 that Jesus would “rule in the midst of his enemies”.....so the rulership that Christ will bring to the world, does not mean immediate peace and security for his disciples on earth. Enemies will still be present as Jesus “separates the sheep from the goats” in these “last days”.

I have reason to believe that he is ruling already, and that the time will come for the accounting, separating and judgment that he foretold.....the majority however will not pass that judgment. We know this because Jesus already warned us that this would be the case. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

The concluding part of that scripture is that when all things have been accomplished by the Kingdom’s rule of 1000 years, Jesus then, after one final test, hands back the reigns to Man’s rightful Sovereign.....His God and Father......the one who alone is “the only true God” (John 17:3) and whom Jesus serves as his “holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30)

Yes...the clear distinction is there.....the son has always relied on his Father to carry out his will, and has supported him in all his works. God must be “all things to everyone”, but who are the “Israel” whom God will save?
The Scriptures make it clear that natural Israel failed in every aspect of their relationship to God, never staying true to their covenants and disobeying their God throughout their history. When God’s purpose was fulfilled in Israel’s producing their Messiah, when they rejected him and had him murdered, God rejected them, (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new “Israel”......the Christian disciples of his son, who were all at first natural Jews, but who were later joined by many Gentile brothers, becoming what Paul called them...”the Israel of God”. (Gal 6:16) This is the “Israel” who are saved. This is the “Israel” who are given priesthood and rulership (rRev 20:6) being “born again” in a new spirit body to dwell in heaven and reign with their King Christ Jesus, “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits”, they will bring all things back into reconciliation with their Creator and reinstate his first purpose for mankind on this beautiful earth.

The land of Israel is no longer “holy” because it is saturated with blood. God has long abandoned natural Israel, otherwise they would not need to ally themselves with gentiles whose worship they despise. If God we’re fighting for Israel they would need no other support, as their history testifies.
Jesus himself indicated to the Samaritan woman at the well....
John 4:20-24...she said to him....
“Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21  Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22  You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23  Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24  God is a Spirit,+and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

No geographical location on earth will be the seat of God’s worship under the rulership of his Kingdom, because the Temple arrangement and God’s worship on earth will no longer need to be geographical, but global. It is ruled from heaven over the whole earth.

God intended at the beginning of man’s creation to “fill the earth” with their children, meaning that God’s worship would not need to have just one “holy land”.....it will all be holy, as tland”.....it will all be holy, as those saved will enjoy what what Adam and his wife lost for us at the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth. (Isa 55:11)

I stated this already. John 5, Jesus was given authority to execute judgment because he became the son of man... because he became flesh and blood. He didn't have that authority until he became the son of man.

Joh 5:27 KJV And hath GIVEN him authority to execute judgment also, because he IS the Son of man.

Why does he have to wait?

Act 1:6-7 KJV 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

What is he the heir to? All things.

Heb 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of ALL THINGS, by whom also he made the worlds;

Appointment... something to be kept in the future.
Heir... someone to receive something

Christ is appointed to receive all things... something in the future. Simple.

If Satan has already cast Satan out of heaven, then there are no enemies in his presence. The separation of sheep of goats (nations) is an earthly thing. I would hardly think of that as ruling in the midst of his enemies.

Who is Israel?

*[[Rom 9:4]]* Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

*[[Eph 2:12]]* That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Those to whom pertains the covenants and promises. The service of God..
The priesthood. And the giving of the law. God has rejected Israel from dwelling in the land because they have broken his covenant. But he has not rejected them from being his people, as heirs of his promises. God's promises are immutable, that includes his promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

Heb 6:17 KJV Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

God has not cast away his people.

Rom 11:1-2 KJV 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2a God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew...

Jer 31:10 KJV Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Jer 32:37 KJV Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

Jer 31:35-37 KJV 35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

[The land of Israel is no longer “holy”]

[land”.....it will all be holy, ]

You reject the land of Israel because it is no longer holy(?). Yet you turn right around and say that God will make it all holy. It's not much of a reason to reject what is now for what will be. If that were the case, we were all hopelessly lost.

 

[The PuP]

Just a reality check, yes, some of the current events do align with Ezek 38 and 39. But it is entirely possible that Christ will not return for his Church/Bride in the next 200 to 400 years. Live as if the Rapture was going to happen tomorrow, but be prepared if it doesn't happen for the next 400 years.

[I firmly believe that] The rapture is in no way imminent. [But i do believe that] Things are coming into view that will allow "all things written to be fulfilled". But i will not ignore the words that Jesus will come when the world is not expecting him to come. We are told to watch for the signs of his coming.

Can you live in this world for Jesus with the expectancy of his coming not being imminent? I think it is a cop out for many Christians to think that his coming is imminent. It is nearing, but its not imminent!
Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[Aunty Jane]

I stated this already. John 5, Jesus was given authority to execute judgment because he became the son of man... because he became flesh and blood. He didn't have that authority until he became the son of man.

Who needs to give authority to the one who is at the right hand of God?
If you read Matt 28:18 you will see that Jesus says…”All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”
Why does Jesus need authority to be “given” to him ”in heaven as well as on earth”? Wouldn’t he already have all the authority he needs as the son of God?
Why did he need to become the “flesh and blood” “the son of man”?

Can you take us through that logically….?

Why does he have to wait?

Act 1:6-7 KJV 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

What is he waiting for? Why did the disciples ask him that question?
What was it that the disciples needed to know about “the times and the seasons”?
How could the son not know what the Father knows? (Matt 24: 36)
Do you never wonder about those sorts of questions? I know I needed the answers.

What is he the heir to? All things.

Heb 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of ALL THINGS, by whom also he made the worlds;

Yes, God used his prophets in times past to inform his people about what was to come….but when Jesus came, he was “the prophet like Moses” and the people were told to “listen to him”. (Acts 3:22)
So what could Jesus, as the son of God inherit, that is not already his?

Appointment... something to be kept in the future.
Heir... someone to receive something

What is the inheritance? What does Jesus receive?
Your answers are a little vague…

I need to have scriptural evidence for what I believe, and from the all that Scripture teaches, not cherry picked verses.

Christ is appointed to receive all things... something in the future. Simple.

If you know who Jesus is…..how does that work? It’s not simple at all…..

If Satan has already cast Satan out of heaven, then there are no enemies in his presence. The separation of sheep of goats (nations) is an earthly thing. I would hardly think of that as ruling in the midst of his enemies.

Who said that satan has already cast satan out of heaven? Where will I read that? Did you mean to say that?

If Jesus is already ruling those who are his disciples on earth now, then he is “ruling in the midst of his enemies”, and satan has already been kicked out of heaven, (Rev 12:7-12) so earth is now the battlefield…..enemies of the Kingdom are in the majority in these “last days”. (Matt 7:13-14)

Who is Israel?

*[[Rom 9:4]]* Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

*[[Eph 2:12]]* That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Those to whom pertains the covenants and promises. The service of God..
The priesthood. And the giving of the law. God has rejected Israel from dwelling in the land because they have broken his covenant. But he has not rejected them from being his people, as heirs of his promises. God's promises are immutable, that includes his promises to Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

There are two ways to become a “son of God”….by birth or by adoption.
Paul tells us that “the Israel of God” are made up of both. Natural Jews made up the first ones called, but according to prophesy, only a “remnant” of natural Israel would be “saved”. (Rom 9:27) The rest would be from the gentiles…..”taken from among mankind as firstfruits”….(Rev 14:1-5)

Those of the “heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1) were promised a priesthood in heaven (Rev 20:6)…and to be “resurrected first”.
Who then is second?

Heb 6:17 KJV Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

God has not cast away his people.

Rom 11:1-2 KJV 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2a God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew...

God never abandoned his people, but he did arrange for an adoption because the majority of his covenanted people could never do as they were told. They broke their covenant with God, he did not break his covenant with them, bringing his messiah into the world through them. After that he was no longer obligated to support them.
Jesus told the religious leaders that they were “blind guides” and that with the blind leading the blind, “both would fall into a pit”.
What do you think he meant? (Matt 23: 13-15)

Jer 31:10 KJV Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

You know about the Disaspora?
As you are probably aware, Israel (Jacob) had 12 sons, who became the founders of 12 tribes. One of those was Judah, from which name the word “Jew” was eventually derived.

In time the term “Jew” was applied to all Israelites, not just to a descendant of Judah.
Because the Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in 70 C.E. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, no Jew today can accurately determine from which tribe he himself is descended. Nevertheless, over the millenniums, the ancient Jewish religion has developed and changed. Today Judaism is practiced by millions of Jews in the Republic of Israel and the Diaspora (dispersion of the Jews around the world)….but it’s not the same nation.

When Alexander the Great conquered the Middle East, Greek and Jewish cultures went through a blending process that was to have surprising results.
Jewish author Max Dimont was quoted as saying: “Enriched with Platonic thought, Aristotelian logic, and Euclidian science, Jewish scholars approached the Torah with new tools. . . .They proceeded to add Greek reason to Jewish revelation.”

The Jewish nation is not the same “people”….so to imagine that the Jews of today are somehow still God’s nation is, according to Scripture, a mistake.

Jer 32:37 KJV Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:

Jer 31:35-37 KJV 35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

God chose a new “Israel”….ones who can and do want to obey their God by accepting Jesus as Messiah.” The “seed of Israel”did respond to Jesus as all the first Christians were Jews, so Israel never ceased to be a nation, God simply adopted more children, when his own abandoned him in the worst way.

[The land of Israel is no longer “holy”]

[land”.....it will all be holy, ]

By what stretch of whose imagination is God remotely connected to the land he gave to his ancient people centuries ago?
How can it be holy when God no longer fights for Israel?….When the site of God’s temple has been taken over by those who worship a foreign god? There is no “holy“ land.
The true “Israel of God“ are found in every nation because Christianity is no longer a Middle Eastern religion centered in a Middle Eastern location.

You reject the land of Israel because it is no longer holy(?). Yet you turn right around and say that God will make it all holy. It's not much of a reason to reject what is now for what will be. If that were the case, we were all hopelessly lost.

Jesus has already told us in the Bible that the seat of his Father’s worship would no longer be in literal Jerusalem. (John 4:21-24) That salvation began with the Jews, but it was not to end with them. The “new Jerusalem” was to be found in heaven...(Heb 12:22) and “the Israel of God” will serve him there.

 

[The PuP]

Who needs to give authority to the one who is at the right hand of God?
If you read Matt 28:18 you will see that Jesus says…”All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”
Why does Jesus need authority to be “given” to him ”in heaven as well as on earth”? Wouldn’t he already have all the authority he needs as the son of God?
Why did he need to become the “flesh and blood” “the son of man”?

Can you take us through that logically….?

What is he waiting for? Why did the disciples ask him that question?
What was it that the disciples needed to know about “the times and the seasons”?
How could the son not know what the Father knows? (Matt 24: 36)
Do you never wonder about those sorts of questions? I know I needed the answers.

Yes, God used his prophets in times past to inform his people about what was to come….but when Jesus came, he was “the prophet like Moses” and the people were told to “listen to him”. (Acts 3:22)
So what could Jesus, as the son of God inherit, that is not already his?

What is the inheritance? What does Jesus receive?
Your answers are a little vague…

I need to have scriptural evidence for what I believe, and from the all that Scripture teaches, not cherry picked verses.

If you know who Jesus is…..how does that work? It’s not simple at all…..

Who said that satan has already cast satan out of heaven? Where will I read that? Did you mean to say that?

If Jesus is already ruling those who are his disciples on earth now, then he is “ruling in the midst of his enemies”, and satan has already been kicked out of heaven, (Rev 12:7-12) so earth is now the battlefield…..enemies of the Kingdom are in the majority in these “last days”. (Matt 7:13-14)

There are two ways to become a “son of God”….by birth or by adoption.
Paul tells us that “the Israel of God” are made up of both. Natural Jews made up the first ones called, but according to prophesy, only a “remnant” of natural Israel would be “saved”. (Rom 9:27) The rest would be from the gentiles…..”taken from among mankind as firstfruits”….(Rev 14:1-5)

Those of the “heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1) were promised a priesthood in heaven (Rev 20:6)…and to be “resurrected first”.
Who then is second?

God never abandoned his people, but he did arrange for an adoption because the majority of his covenanted people could never do as they were told. They broke their covenant with God, he did not break his covenant with them, bringing his messiah into the world through them. After that he was no longer obligated to support them.
Jesus told the religious leaders that they were “blind guides” and that with the blind leading the blind, “both would fall into a pit”.
What do you think he meant? (Matt 23: 13-15)

You know about the Disaspora?
As you are probably aware, Israel (Jacob) had 12 sons, who became the founders of 12 tribes. One of those was Judah, from which name the word “Jew” was eventually derived.

In time the term “Jew” was applied to all Israelites, not just to a descendant of Judah.
Because the Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in 70 C.E. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, no Jew today can accurately determine from which tribe he himself is descended. Nevertheless, over the millenniums, the ancient Jewish religion has developed and changed. Today Judaism is practiced by millions of Jews in the Republic of Israel and the Diaspora (dispersion of the Jews around the world)….but it’s not the same nation.

When Alexander the Great conquered the Middle East, Greek and Jewish cultures went through a blending process that was to have surprising results.
Jewish author Max Dimont was quoted as saying: “Enriched with Platonic thought, Aristotelian logic, and Euclidian science, Jewish scholars approached the Torah with new tools. . . .They proceeded to add Greek reason to Jewish revelation.”

The Jewish nation is not the same “people”….so to imagine that the Jews of today are somehow still God’s nation is, according to Scripture, a mistake.

God chose a new “Israel”….ones who can and do want to obey their God by accepting Jesus as Messiah.” The “seed of Israel”did respond to Jesus as all the first Christians were Jews, so Israel never ceased to be a nation, God simply adopted more children, when his own abandoned him in the worst way.

By what stretch of whose imagination is God remotely connected to the land he gave to his ancient people centuries ago?
How can it be holy when God no longer fights for Israel?….When the site of God’s temple has been taken over by those who worship a foreign god? There is no “holy“ land.
The true “Israel of God“ are found in every nation because Christianity is no longer a Middle Eastern religion centered in a Middle Eastern location.

Jesus has already told us in the Bible that the seat of his Father’s worship would no longer be in literal Jerusalem. (John 4:21-24) That salvation began with the Jews, but it was not to end with them. The “new Jerusalem” was to be found in heaven...(Heb 12:22) and “the Israel of God” will serve him there.

You ask too many questions that are outside of the point of the thread.
[Note: Satan casting out Satan is a typological misquote me. I will address that shortly.

The "authority of Christ" IS relevant to the prophetic significance of current world events. So let me try to briefly sum up all that i have so far stated.

Psalm 110 is about the SUBORDINATION of God's power and authority [over Christ's enemies] to the appointed heir; and it is not about the SUBDUING (subdue) of those enemies.

ICor15 speaks to the effect that God must reign until he subordinates that authority to the one sitting at his right hand. If it God who is currently subduing Christ's enemies, then that in itself nullifies the premise that Christ is now reigning(there is nothing that [1Cor 15] says is not put under his feet. If God is the one subduing those enemies, then it is God who is reigning and not Christ. So it --->[1Co 15:25 KJV For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.] can only refer to subordination and not the process of subduing.
This is the same thought that is iterated in Heb 2
Heb 2:8 KJV Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
This is also reiterated when it says that Jesus is the appointed heir.

How do we know that he is the appointed heir of all of God's authority and power? Because he is the one and only one who is sitting at God's right hand. It is not an angel who is referenced in Heb 1:13. Again the one who has the subjected authority of the world to come, but it is Jesus. Subjected subordination! There is no evidence whatsoever that God is not sitting on the one and only throne of authority. Paul even stated such to the contrary when he said "God must reign until he has (subordinated all of that authority) over Christ's enemies to the feet of Christ".

Further, if Satan has already been cast out of heaven, Christ would not be ruling in the midst of his enemies. The thrust of Psalm 110 is that (as long as) Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, God has not subordinated his authority [over his enemies] to Christ. The proof and evidence of that will be is when Christ is sent to rule in the midst of his enemies. That order of when rests in God's decision and timing:

Psa 110:1-2 KJV 1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [Jehoveh, Strong's H3068]said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD [Jehoveh, Strong's H3068] shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

It is the LORD GOD who says to [Davids] Lord, Sit at my right hand. And it is the LORD GOD who sends the rod of his strength out of Zion to rule in the midst of his enemies.

Be Blessed

 

[The PuP]

Okay, so what is at issue is when God has put all enemies under His feet. So far so good.

However, then comes the false doctrine that says that it has not yet occurred, in direct contradiction with Heb 2:8. Which is only properly understood if considering that "But now we see not yet all things put under him." For it was already stated as, "he left nothing that is not put under him." Therefore, the second part only refers to the fact that they themselves had not yet seen it--which is not the same thing as saying it has not yet happened--which should be obvious because it is already stated that it had, even completely.

In other words, all Jesus' enemies had already been put under his feet--but they had not seen it yet. Which--as I said before--is a confirmation of Jesus' explanation, saying He would not come "by observation." Meaning, those who expected to "see" what Jesus said would not be seen--did not take Him serious--did not believe Him, and made up a doctrine that fit their expectations.

Do you not seeing understand this?

Psalm 110 is not about subduing (exercising of authority) but the subordination of authority. See my last post to A-J. 1COR15: 25. GOD will continue to reign with the highest authority until he subordinates that authority to the appointed heir... the one sitting at his right hand. The exercising of that authority by Christ is for the world to come!

Be Blessed

 

[ScottA]

Psalm 110 is not about subduing (exercising of authority) but the subordination of authority. See my last post to A-J. 1COR15: 25. GOD will continue to reign with the highest authority until he subordinates that authority to the appointed heir... the one sitting at his right hand. The exercising of that authority by Christ is for the world to come!

Be Blessed

That is not the point I was making, but is the cause of many believing that Christ's enemies are not yet under His feet. What you are saying is only true for those who have not entered into that world to come--which, if one can receive it--begins that first moment of new life in Christ, in heavenly places in God...as it were.

Thus, the things of God are not measured or centered according to the times of those who perceived or do not perceive--but rather are according to measure of Him who comes and God who never changes. This is what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank you for your reasoned reply and I will address your points...

You ask too many questions that are outside of the point of the thread.

Sorry for all the questions...I have been a questioner all my life....to me they are all related in the big picture......everything must make logical sense and fit in with the Bible’s overall narrative. I have found Christendom to be in error on those two important points. Their theology is completely illogical and scripture argues with scripture.

[Note: Satan casting out Satan is a typological misquote me. I will address that shortly.

I thought that might be the case...

The "authority of Christ" IS relevant to the prophetic significance of current world events. So let me try to briefly sum up all that i have so far stated.

Psalm 110 is about the SUBORDINATION of God's power and authority [over Christ's enemies] to the appointed heir; and it is not about the SUBDUING (subdue) of those enemies.

I believe that God is in complete control of everything (but not the cause of our situation as his permission of evil has a purpose) and that his son plays an important part in all that he does, as his “firstborn” (Col 1:15-17) He has been by his Father’s side from his creation and always will be as his “Logos”....the one who speaks for God....his “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)

ICor15 speaks to the effect that God must reign until he subordinates that authority to the one sitting at his right hand. If it God who is currently subduing Christ's enemies, then that in itself nullifies the premise that Christ is now reigning(there is nothing that [1Cor 15] says is not put under his feet. If God is the one subduing those enemies, then it is God who is reigning and not Christ.

It is important to note that from the beginning of man’s creation, when “sin entered into the world”, God took immediate action to introduce a solution...a long term solution that would help all intelligent creation see the folly of disobedience to their rightful Sovereign.

Free will was abused in both realms, so the solution had to have impact in both realms. The first rebel was not human...and sin is a barrier between us and God. Hence the mediatorship of his son was set up so that humans could still communicate with their God, but through a mediator whom God appointed....who became the man, Jesus Christ on earth.

We have reason to believe that when God spoke to his earthly servants, it was by means of this mediator, who always spoke for his Father, and was instrumental in carrying out his Father’s will in heaven and on earth. The Father, “Jehovah” (Psalm 83:18 KJV) has many titles, but only one name throughout the Scriptures....the son, OTOH has different names depending upon the role he is playing. Things get confused when names are not used, but titles are used instead used to identify who is doing what.
The title “LORD” when used for both Father and son is part of that confusion. If the Jews had continued to use the divine name, that confusion would not have happened.

not the process of subduing.
This is the same thought that is iterated in Heb 2
Heb 2:8 KJV Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
This is also reiterated when it says that Jesus is the appointed heir.

Was the son always subject to his Father? If “yes” then there has never been a time when he was not subordinate. If “no” then when did the subordination not apply? Who was God speaking to in Gen 1:26? Who is the “us” and “our” in God’s Statement? Col 1:15-17 answers that question.
Since Paul says that “all creation was made through him and for him”....what is his inheritance?

How do we know that he is the appointed heir of all of God's authority and power? Because he is the one and only one who is sitting at God's right hand. It is not an angel who is referenced in Heb 1:13. Again the one who has the subjected authority of the world to come, but it is Jesus. Subjected subordination!

Could God’s firstborn ever be just “an angel” if he was the one used to create the other sons of God? If “all creation” came from God through his son, then what is “the son of God”? When did he become “the son of God”? What does Rev 3:14 tell us?

In his address to the seven congregations, Jesus said....
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God”. (KJV) Jesus carries all those titles and he is said to be “the beginning of the creation of God”.
Jesus always referred to his Father as “my God”. (Rev 3:12; John 20:17) In the Lord’s Prayer he addresses his prayer to “Our Father” and his first mention is of the sanctification of his Father’s name.....not his own.

There is no evidence whatsoever that God is not sitting on the one and only throne of authority. Paul even stated such to the contrary when he said "God must reign until he has (subordinated all of that authority) over Christ's enemies to the feet of Christ".

I agree entirely, but sitting on his Father’s throne as co-regent is what the scriptures indicate. He rules under his Father’s authority so that the throne is always God’s......he will rule redeemed mankind until the last enemy is dispatched. There is the thousand year reign of Christ and his elect which is to bring the human race back into reconciliation with their Creator, and after one last test, where satan and his hordes are released from their prison to test perfected mankind, any who succumb to his deceptions, like Adam and his wife, will not be permitted to enjoy the life that was originally planned for mankind on this earth. Fire will come down from heaven and destroy them. No excuses can then be offered to God for the abuse of free will. Perfect beings do not make mistakes.....they commit deliberate sin.

Further, if Satan has already been cast out of heaven, Christ would not be ruling in the midst of his enemies. The thrust of Psalm 110 is that (as long as) Christ is sitting at the right hand of God, God has not subordinated his authority [over his enemies] to Christ. The proof and evidence of that will be is when Christ is sent to rule in the midst of his enemies. That order of when rests in God's decision and timing:

Since I believe that Christ has been ruling as king over his disciples during this time period called “the time of the end” by Daniel, or the “last days” by Paul, Jesus has indeed been “ruling in the midst of his enemies”.

When asked about the time of his return, Christ answered his disciples with the words in Matt 24:3-14.
He gave as a “sign” of his “presence” (not his coming), world events that would indicate that he was now ruling with his Father’s authority. He is separating the “wheat from the weeds” and the “sheep from the goats” during this whole time, which I believe began in 1914 when the first sign was fulfilled....when the world was engulfed in a war that no one saw coming...an unprecedented war that involved the whole world.

Other features of the sign have also been in evidence ever since then, as the world of alienated mankind now spirals down into its death throes. This is when satan was cast out of heaven and the world has never been the same since, only getting more and more wicked.....till the last day rapidly approaches. (Rev 12:7-12)

Christ’s “coming” will be as judge and executioner....too late then for anyone to change course or to offer their excuses. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

Psa 110:1-2 KJV 1 A Psalm of David. The LORD [Jehoveh, Strong's H3068]said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD [Jehoveh, Strong's H3068] shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

It is the LORD GOD who says to [Davids] Lord, Sit at my right hand. And it is the LORD GOD who sends the rod of his strength out of Zion to rule in the midst of his enemies.

And indeed he has been successful in using his “rod of strength” in giving his true disciples the courage to be separate from the world in these last days, which is entirely ruled by the devil. (John 18:36; 1 John 5:19) They are not divided by denomination or politics, (1 Cor 1:10; 1 John 4:20-21) but united as a global brotherhood who are out there doing what Christ commanded them to do, hated and persecuted (John 15:18-21) even at the risk to their own lives and freedom. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14; Acts 20:20)

This is a narrative that I believe is completely lost in Christendom....the “weeds” of Jesus parable.

 

[Scott Downey]

That is not the point I was making, but is the cause of many believing that Christ's enemies are not yet under His feet. What you are saying is only true for those who have not entered into that world to come--which, if one can receive it--begins that first moment of new life in Christ, in heavenly places in God...as it were.

Thus, the things of God are not measured or centered according to the times of those who perceived or do not perceived--but rather are according to measure of Him who comes and God who never changes. This is what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Yes, God did put all things under His feet.
That is easy to understand if we believe the following is true.

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Colossians 1:15-17
New King James Version
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [a]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.


Even DEATH has been made subject to Christ, but Death is not yet destroyed, and is the last enemy of God.
In the same way Satan and all the demons have been made subject to Christ, but they are not yet destroyed.
But they will be, then we get the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets of God since the world began, when God the Father sends Christ again.


John 12:49-50
New King James Version
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

Acts 3
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.

23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’

24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days.

25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

 

[Jay Ross]

^^^^ Is the prophetic picture becoming clearer to you with the events that are transpiring in the middle east and or the whole world?

Yes! When I have a contextually accurate understanding of the message God has given us in the Bible.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, God did put all things under His feet.
That is easy to understand if we believe the following is true.

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Colossians 1:15-17
New King James Version
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [a]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.


Even DEATH has been made subject to Christ, but Death is not yet destroyed, and is the last enemy of God.
In the same way Satan and all the demons have been made subject to Christ, but they are not yet destroyed.
But they will be, then we get the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets of God since the world began, when God the Father sends Christ again.


John 12:49-50
New King James Version
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

Acts 3
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.

23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’

24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days.

25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

All good. However, it would appear that you have not reconciled the time of Christ's return with "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me" as being in the order "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."--which "in Adam" was not a mass future event, but rather as Paul said, "but each one in his own order."

Most have believed the "onetime future return of Christ" "lie" taught by "false teachers" foretold by Peter and Paul--which indeed has made for "strong delusion."

 

[Gottservant]

I personally keep waiting for a bomb to land and the stock markets to go crazy.

I think we all need to confess that the Devil has tempted us to make presumptions about the future, that aren't God's concern at the moment!

 

[The PuP]

I personally keep waiting for a bomb to land and the stock markets to go crazy.

I think we all need to confess that the Devil has tempted us to make presumptions about the future, that aren't God's concern at the moment!

If we take heed (are sober minded) and watch for the things the Jesus told us to be watching for, the day of the Lord will not come upon us like a thief in the night.

Rev 3:3 KJV Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

We are told to watch and be ready.

Mat 24:42-44 KJV 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye ALSO ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

NOT KNOWING what hour our Lord is coming, is not about "knowing when", but rather about "knowing what" things will be like when he comes like a thief to those not watching.

1Th 5:1-5 KJV 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 KJV Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

We are fast approaching the time when the people of Israel will be dwelling in peace and safety in their land, much like what it says in Eze 38-39. The Gog magog war will be what brings in the day of the Lord. Keep your eyes on Israel!
Be Blessed
The

 

[KUWN]

^^^^ Is the prophetic picture becoming clearer to you with the events that are transpiring in the middle east and or the whole world?

Yes! When I have a contextually accurate understanding of the message God has given us in the Bible.

The Rapture may not happen 500 more years from now. All we need is another WWIII and WWIV to delay the Rapture.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Rapture may not happen 500 more years from now. All we need is another WWIII and WWIV to delay the Rapture.

Maybe, but the 1,000 years of peace from the evil beasts will play out first before their angry return.

 

[KUWN]

Maybe, but the 1,000 years of peace from the evil beasts will play out first before their angry return.

What is "their angry return"? I have never heard such a term. And who is the "their" of their angry return?

 

[Jay Ross]

What is "their angry return"? I have never heard such a term. And who is the "their" of their angry return?

Really, do you have a reading comprehension problem?

 

[KUWN]

Really, do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Something told me you would have no answer.

 

[rockytopva]

The prophetic picture... End time predictions... Even the MAD magazine is looking into it!

 

[rockytopva]

End time predictions... Even the MAD magazine is looking into them. I would trust Alfred E Neuman as much as I would anyone else into date setting...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

prophetic picture becoming clearer with current world events?
No, but God's Mystery / Grace Picture Is Probably In "the last days" with Paul's:

"This know also that in the last days perilous times shall come...evil men and seducers ​

shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:1-13 AV)​

Thus, at any Moment The Mystery Of God's Great GRACE Departure Could occur Ending GRACE,
The Body Of Christ Will Go To our Heavenly Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV), while:

Simultaneously Judgment befalls the earth , which Will Endure the Time Of Jacob's Trouble / Great Tribulation and The Lamb's Wrath Before / At The Prophesied Second Coming!

Amen.