No one has seen God at any time, John?

[Matthias]

Good--that's excellent!

It is. It’s Jewish monotheism.

 

[dak]

Good--that's excellent! And I am here to tell you that Jesus is that God--for He defines God--with the exception and the reason Jesus said what He said calling the Father His God, is that an "image"--that God created man as--is no God...which is also true of us as well.

The dilemma and confusion comes when the image of God in man is given its own identity during and of this world. In other words logos (Word) is rather a form of media from God...complete with a cast of characters. But is no more God than a newspaper or a book is the actual events contained and revealed therein. And we too in the flesh are only logos (word) as well.

I was just reading a post by a member called @Pierac a little bit ago, making an excellent point: if the Meshiah or Chosen One has a God, then he is not God, for that would be two gods.

 

[Waiting on him]

Good--that's excellent! And I am here to tell you that Jesus is that God--for He defines God--with the exception and the reason Jesus said what He said calling the Father His God, is that an "image"--that God created man as--is no God...which is also true of us as well.

The dilemma and confusion comes when the image of God in man is given its own identity during and of this world. In other words logos (Word) is rather a form of media from God...complete with a cast of characters. But is no more God than a newspaper or a book is the actual events contained and revealed therein. And we too in the flesh are only logos (word) as well.

You seem to be caught on this idea that Jesus is the logos. Did Jesus not state numerous times that he only spoke what he heard the Father speak?

It’s probably worth noting that Jesus had to hear from the father to know what needed to be said?

 

[Pierac]

You seem to be caught on this idea that Jesus is the logos. Did Jesus not state numerous times that he only spoke what he heard the Father speak?

It’s probably worth noting that Jesus had to hear from the father to know what needed to be said?

Logos - This word is translated in English as "Word". This word has an actual meaning which has been almost completely lost due to the Greek philosophical interpretation of John 1:1-3 & 14. who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (Rev 1:2) "I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word (logos) of God." (Rev 20:4)

Notice that they were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus AND for the logos of God.

Jesus and the word of God are not the same thing.

John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one (God) who judges him; the word ( logos ) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, as He is not the Logos! So who is the Logos? The very next verse tell us!

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

How do you... whom read this not know???? That is..... all is in all

 

[dak]

Logos - This word is translated in English as "Word". This word has an actual meaning which has been almost completely lost due to the Greek philosophical interpretation of John 1:1-3 & 14. who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (Rev 1:2) "I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word (logos) of God." (Rev 20:4)

Notice that they were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus AND for the logos of God.

Jesus and the word of God are not the same thing.

John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one (God) who judges him; the word ( logos ) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, as He is not the Logos! So who is the Logos? The very next verse tell us!

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

How do you... whom read this not know???? That is..... all is in all

The one and only, one-of-a-kind Son who is ever in the bosom of the Father, (John 1:18), at His right hand side: that one is the Logos-Word of the Father.

Logos Logic

If anyone will, follow the simple systematic logic in the following emphatic statements of the Meshiah, and there is a reward to come for doing so, (once the relative consequences to doctrine are understood and carried out in the faithful one). First off: Point #1 The term ho logos in John...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Waiting on him]

Logos - This word is translated in English as "Word". This word has an actual meaning which has been almost completely lost due to the Greek philosophical interpretation of John 1:1-3 & 14. who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. (Rev 1:2) "I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word (logos) of God." (Rev 20:4)

Notice that they were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus AND for the logos of God.

Jesus and the word of God are not the same thing.

John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one (God) who judges him; the word ( logos ) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, as He is not the Logos! So who is the Logos? The very next verse tell us!

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

How do you... whom read this not know???? That is..... all is in all

Pretty much the understanding I was trying to give. I’ll go a step further

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
— Matthew 10:19-20

 

[Waiting on him]

The one and only, one-of-a-kind Son who is ever in the bosom of the Father, (John 1:18), at His right hand side: that one is the Logos-Word of the Father.

View attachment 71706

Logos Logic

If anyone will, follow the simple systematic logic in the following emphatic statements of the Meshiah, and there is a reward to come for doing so, (once the relative consequences to doctrine are understood and carried out in the faithful one). First off: Point #1 The term ho logos in John...

www.christianityboard.com

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
— Matthew 10:19-20

 

[dak]

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
— Matthew 10:19-20

Amen, the Testimony of the Meshiah is the Spirit of the Father because the Son is upon him throughout his earthly ministry, (and the Son is not a man, but the Logos-Word of the Father).

Matthew 11:30a For my yoke is CHRESTOS.......

Taste and see that Yah is chrestos, (Greek Chrestos = Hebrew Tob: Good, Gracious).
For if the Father is chrestos, then His Son/Word is chrestos, (Psa 38:8 LXX, 1Pet 2:3).

Nomen Sacrum Chi-Rho:
1) Χ̅Ρ = Christos (the Meshiah / the Anointed One / the Chosen One -- a man)
2) Χ̅Ρ = Chrestos (the Gracious / the Good -- not a man)

 

[ScottA]

Thank you for telling me but I don’t find your explanation persuasive. Jesus, a Jewish monotheist, isn’t his own God and Father.

Okay, so what is missing here, is your not factoring in, or accepting, or believing that God can and is "on earth as in heaven." That God can be omnipresent, "all in all"...and the Son vice versa.

That just limits and defines your position, and the position of monotheists, as a religious belief system.

I am telling you the Truth is greater than you have allowed for--God is greater. It is your choice, and that of every individual, however, to believe the truth when it comes or not. Even so, it is "all truth", and nothing less that was promised, and it is in and by that Spirit that I have been speaking.

 

[ScottA]

I was just reading a post by a member called @Pierac a little bit ago, making an excellent point: if the Meshiah or Chosen One has a God, then he is not God, for that would be two gods.

That is the logic of men from this one, worldly side of the equation: Limited and shortsighted. Is God not capable of "on earth as in heaven", or of being omnipresent--of being on both sides of anything and everything? Of course He is. But men considering the things of God impossible--Ha! What do such men know?

 

[ScottA]

You seem to be caught on this idea that Jesus is the logos. Did Jesus not state numerous times that he only spoke what he heard the Father speak?

It’s probably worth noting that Jesus had to hear from the father to know what needed to be said?

Jesus is the Light of God, in which there is no separation even if divided. Thus, yes, Light coming into the world was and is limited--but it (He) is God.

A man wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and is less than himself all day. His mind is still complete and he has left nothing behind, but wherever he goes, whatever he does, he thinks to himself to fulfill the days tasks. And he is just a man. How much greater is God? And what a mere man can do--why do men not think God can do even better?

There is a fool in the heart of every man, but God has promised that we shall all come to know the truth.

 

[Matthias]

Okay, so what is missing here, is your not factoring in, or accepting, or believing that God can and is "on earth as in heaven." That God can be omnipresent, "all in all"...and the Son vice versa.

That just limits and defines your position, and the position of monotheists, as a religious belief system.

Thanks, but no. I believe that both Yahweh and Jesus are omnipresent.

I’ll always be a monotheist and, as I told you clearly, my belief is constrained by the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.

I am telling you the Truth is greater than you have allowed for--God is greater.

I’ve heard you and I’ve compared what you’ve said with what is written in scripture.

It is your choice, and that of every individual, however, to believe the truth when it comes or not. Even so, it is "all truth", and nothing less that was promised, and it is in and by that Spirit that I have been speaking.

Jesus is the truth, and he is a Jewish monotheist. You aren’t.

 

[Matthias]

My neighbor in Georgia was a Methodist. She gave me a book to read about the Methodist circuit riders and I was greatly impressed by one thing in particular. I returned the book to her but I retained a jewel -

“‘Offer them Christ’ was the Methodist theme for the frontiers of America.”

‘Offer them Christ’ remains ultimate goal

www.mississippi-umc.org

I’m a Jewish monotheist. Offer me a Christ / Messiah who isn’t a Jewish monotheist and you’ve offered me “another Jesus”.

 

[ScottA]

I’ll always be a monotheist and, as I told you clearly, my belief is constrained by the Messiah’s own Jewish monotheism.

That is the crux of the problem. Which was only true for a time, and foretold to become "finished." This is that time. Why should you miss all that was promised?

That ship has sailed...and it sank on Christmas day. Curious timing this! But you are not the Captain, why do you insist on going down with the ship?

 

[Matthias]

That is the crux of the problem. Which was only true for a time, and foretold to become "finished." This is that time. Why should you miss all that was promised?

Jesus hasn’t exchanged his theology for another. I haven’t missed anything that was promised.

That ship has sailed...and it sank on Christmas day. But you are not the Captain, why do you insist on going down with the ship?

The Captain of my ship, the Messiah, is a Jewish monotheist. The ship hasn’t sunk and never will.

Why don’t you share your bridge with the trinitarians? You might be able to persuade some of them.

 

[dak]

That is the logic of men from this one, worldly side of the equation: Limited and shortsighted. Is God not capable of "on earth as in heaven", or of being omnipresent--of being on both sides of anything and everything? Of course He is. But men considering the things of God impossible--Ha! What do such men know?

The Father is omnipresent: the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him, (Deu 10:14, 1Kngs 8:27, 2Chr 2:6, 2Chr 6:18), and there is nowhere anyone can go where He is not there. If you could ascend into the heavens, He is there: if you could descend into Sheol, He is there, (see Psa 139:7-11). Therefore the Father neither descends nor ascends, for He is indeed omnipresent, and is greater than the heavens, the heavens of the heavens, and even greater than the earth together with the heavens combined.

However the Son of man does indeed descend and ascend the heavens, (John 3:13, see also Psa 68:18 which contains Yah Elohim). This therefore is anthropomorphic, and is surely limited compared to the Father, and it speaks of the Son because he is the Word, (both the Rhema and the Logos because the Rhema, which is both spoken and written, contains the Logos within the understanding of the context).

In the beginning Ruach Elohim, the Spirit of the Father, was brooding over the waters, that is, like a mother hen of the doves, and this again is an anthropomorphism or, more correctly, a zoomorphism.

Yah Elohim is the Spirit of the Father because he is the Word of the Father, and testimony is spirit, and the Testimony of the Meshiah or Anointed One is Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), because it is the Logos-Word of the Father given to the Anointed One from the heavens, (John 3:27-29). Yah Elohim is Ruach Elohim who is the Dove in the immersion accounts.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus hasn’t exchanged his theology for another. I haven’t missed anything that was promised.

Tell us then...what did Daniel not write, and what did John read--of things that were written--but he did not write, and what is the promised finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Or be honest and admit that you do not know.

 

[ScottA]

The Captain of my ship, the Messiah, is a Jewish monotheist. The ship hasn’t sunk and never will.

Why don’t you share your bridge with the trinitarians? You might be able to persuade some of them.

Here I have shared--revealed to you a word from Messiah in postdiction, but you do not hear His voice.

 

[Matthias]

Tell us then...what did Daniel not write, and what did John read--of things that were written--but he did not write, and what is the promised finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets.

Or be honest and admit that you do not know.

I‘m not following you. If you’ll provide a scripture reference in John, I’ll comment on it.

In the meantime I will say this - there is no prophecy that the Messiah will exchange his theology for someone elses.

 

[Matthias]

Here I have shared--revealed to you a word from Messiah in postdiction, but you do not hear His voice.

I‘m able to distinguish between his voice and yours. What did the trinitarians say when you shared - revealed to them this “word from Messiah in postdiction”?