Rapture ... soon?

[Zao is life]

Obviously you were not reading my previous post well. Read again:

Mat 4:1​

(1) Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.​

​

The word you keep calling tempted is actually the word tested or tried. Jesus was NOT "tempted to sin" as you seem to imagine - - as if He had sinful desires, feelings, or wanted to sin. That alone would imply sin in His thought, which is impossible! You should know better. Christ NEVER desired sin, NEVER entertained it, and NEVER had a single thought toward it. Rather, He was tested by the devil, and yet remained completely without sin. In other words, He passed the test flawlessly — in thought, word, and deed. Look the word up yourself — it means tested or tried. That’s a major difference! As it is written:​

​

Heb 4:15​

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities (tempted); but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.​

​

Christ was tried in all points as we are, but unlike us, He did not fail the test. Again, the word means tried or tested. ​

(Chuckle) Spoken like a true natural man — so stubborn you can’t even see past your own nose, let alone grasp spiritual truth.

Tell me, was Jonah literally in the belly of a great fish? Yes. But does that event carry a spiritual meaning beyond the surface? Absolutely yes.

Was the axe head that sank to the bottom of the Jordan and then floated back up a literal event? Yes. But does it also reveal something deeper spiritually? Yes again.

Did manna literally fall from heaven to feed the Israelites in the wilderness? Yes. But was it also pointing to something far greater spiritually? Of course.

So when Christ fasted forty days and nights in the wilderness — was that a literal event? Yes. But does the fasting, the wilderness, and the number forty all point to a deeper spiritual truth? Without question, yes!

Maybe it’s time you grew up, put down your carnal coffee, and started smelling the spiritual brew.

Yourself and @rwb who keeps agreeing with your false doctrine do not seem to understand that whether the word means tested or tempted you are implying that even the Son of God had a devil in Himself which he "heard" speaking to Himself - which is the epitome of blasphemy, and @Spiritual Israelite and @WPM seem to think that darkness and the lying deceptions of Satan needed to be bound in order for the light of the gospel of truth to shine in the hearts and minds of people, calling them to salvation in Jesus. As though light would need darkness to be bound in order to shine into the darkness.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yourself and @rwb who keeps agreeing with your false doctrine do not seem to understand that whether the word means tested or tempted you are implying that even the Son of God had a devil in Himself which he "heard" speaking to Himself - which is the epitome of blasphemy.

I never teach that Jesus Christ had a devil in Himself that he was talking to himself. Show me my quote where I said it else you are a false witness.

...seem to think that darkness and the lying deceptions of Satan needed to be bound in order for the light of the gospel of truth to shine in the hearts and minds of people, calling them to salvation in Jesus. As though light would need darkness to be bound in order to shine into the darkness.

This is the truth I teach from Matthew 12:27–29 and Revelation 20. Every one of us was once bound by our own spirit, the spirit of disobedience—the very spirit of Satan—which held us captive under spiritual bondage. But Christ, in His power, first restrains and binds that spirit so that we may be brought to repentance through the hearing of the Gospel. From Pentecost onward, this divine restraint has continued until the final Elect is secured. Then, and only then, will the spirit of Satan be released to once again deceive the nations—especially those who have not yet received the seal of God. In that short season, there will be no more salvation, for the door of grace will be shut until Christ returns in Glory.

 

[Zao is life]

I gave it like 5 minutes research only, but it seems that it originated with Joel Osteen 2017 viral video clip, which snowballed on social media and blog posts and internet added various numerology and "prophecies" into it and it resulted in September 23, 2017 date.

It looks like the September 23, 2025 date is just some kind of social media reiteration of the same thing.

IMO if we could work out the day or the hour of Jesus's return then Jesus would not have given us signs to watch for, telling us to watch.

But we cannot even agree on what the signs are that we are supposed to be watching for.

Yet IMHO there is ONE sign, but few seem to understand what it is. But these signs all accompany it:

"Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

At that time if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

.. but those days will be shortened for the elect's sake.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Behold, I have told you before the time." Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

I'd like to know who is the "all" Jesus was talking about in the above sentence, to whom His words would also apply, if the "all" does not apply to ALL generations of believers - up to and especially those who would see the signs?

IMHO there is only ONE sign that will be accompanied with all the other signs, but few seem to understand what it is. Very few. Most place it in the 1st century and into the 'already fulfilled' filing cabinet, just because of Jesus's statements about the besieging and desolation of Jerusalem, and regardless of the persecution and tribulation of those who follow Him which He said would come before that time and at the time of the end.

We Christians cannot even agree who are the elect of God mentioned in Matthew 24:22, so it's pointless discussing it. Let each one be convinced in his own mind. Because only ONE is our teacher, and those who are able to hear HIM, will hear Him.

 

[Zao is life]

I never teach that Jesus Christ had a devil in Himself that he was talking to himself. Show me my quote where I said it else you are a false witness.



This is the truth I teach from Matthew 12:27–29 and Revelation 20. Every one of us was once bound by our own spirit, the spirit of disobedience—the very spirit of Satan—which held us captive under spiritual bondage. But Christ, in His power, first restrains and binds that spirit so that we may be brought to repentance through the hearing of the Gospel. From Pentecost onward, this divine restraint has continued until the final Elect is secured. Then, and only then, will the spirit of Satan be released to once again deceive the nations—especially those who have not yet received the seal of God. In that short season, there will be no more salvation, for the door of grace will be shut until Christ returns in Glory.

Which spirit was it which spoke to Eve?

Which spirit was it which spoke to Christ, the last Adam? Two different spirits with the same name, or one and the same spirit?

So was it Eve's spirit that spoke to Christ in the desert?

Which spirit was behind the plot and the plan to crucify Christ, the last Adam, the Son of God?

Which spirit did Christ, the last Adam, defeat, and how was that spirit defeated?

 

[Muna]

It's not that angels are human, angels are spirits that serve God.

Spirits serve God, heres a spirit serving him here

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

The Greek word angelos is also translated messenger as we find with John the Baptist and even Epaphroditus. The word translated of John is from the same Greek word angelos but there is speaks of a human messenger and not a spirit angel of God.

Angelos G32 - a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.

The context shows us when angelos is speaking of a human being, or a spirit being.

In 1 Kings 22:23 There is a lying (or not truthful) spirit (a singular spirit ) sent out from the LORD (as any messenger/spirit would be) into the mouth (from where the message is delivered, of many ). A singular spirit delivered into the mouth of many (plural) prophets

1 Kings 22:23.... a lying spirit (singular) in the mouth of all these thy prophets (plural)

Kind of Omnipresent there, which means "Present everywhere simultaneously"

Although, maybe not everywhere but that one spirit is in the mouth of many prophets simultaneously.

In each of the verses below 'messenger' was translated from the same Greek word angelos that is also translated elsewhere angel. Humans are the messengers who serve God in flesh on this earth. Angels of God are spirits from heaven who also serve God.

aggelos (Greek)

1. a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God

AV — angel 179, messenger 7

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Used as messenger 7 times?

Here are the 7 of them here

Matt 11:10 John the baptist, Mark 1:2 John the Baptist, Luke 2:27 John the baptist
Luke 7:24 The disciples of John the Baptist, Luke 9:52 The disciples of Jesus,
James 2:25 Joshuas spies 2 Cr 12:7 And Paul's thorn in the flesh, messenger of Satan

Is that what you want me to see?

Mt 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mr 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Lu 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The above

Mat 11:10, Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27

Are repeats of one and the same verse reference to Malachi 3:1

All of which (noting the same exact verse) all referring to John the baptist who was prophesied to go before the Lord

mal'ak (Hebrew)

1. messenger, representative
   1. messenger
   2. angel
   3. the theophanic angel

AV — angel 111, messenger 98, ambassadors 4, variant 1

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

---

Php 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

There are various kinds of messengers, even bike messengers for example

Bike messengers in some parts of the U.S can earn an average of $17.34 per hour

I wouldnt refer to one as an angel, so I am not sure about your point here

 

[Muna]

Good, the point I continue to argue is the belief the Bible tells us that Satan is NOT, and never has been a spirit messenger (angel) of God, who rebelled against God and became an evil spirit messenger with a myriad of titles that define his evil character. When one has a proper understanding of the Greek word angelos this truth is seen more clearly.

I posted on angelos, for you, I havent a clue to how it will enlighten me to any of the above.

It seems there are some in this discussion having a very hard time accepting that the evil spirit called Satan, reflected as a serpent was created with a nature, cunning and crafty in a bad way from the beginning. Created to try the hearts and minds of A&E. And that he is called the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning of creation.

Who created this spirit here?

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1 Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Is Satan the father of it, since he is the father of lies or did God create it?

Seeing its just one spirit sent by the LORD to go out and lie and do so as singular spirit sent forth (as a messenger would be) dispersed into the mouth of all those prophets to do that thing (lie)

 

[HealthyShape]

IMO if we could work out the day or the hour of Jesus's return then Jesus would not have given us signs to watch for, telling us to watch.

But we cannot even agree on what the signs are that we are supposed to be watching for.

You are mistaking the apostles and the first church with us. There is nothing in the New Testament saying "hey, Christians living 2,000 years after us, watch for these signs..."

 

[Zao is life]

I posted on angelos, for you, I havent a clue to how it will enlighten me to any of the above.


Who created this spirit here?

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

1 Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

1 Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Is Satan the father of it, since he is the father of lies or did God create it?

Seeing its just one spirit sent by the LORD to go out and lie and do so as singular spirit sent forth (as a messenger would be) dispersed into the mouth of all those prophets to do that thing (lie)

Exactly. The Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus collectively make up a body called the church - but we all know that this certainly does not mean that collectively we are the Spirit of Christ!!

We know that it is the Omnipresent Spirit of Christ dwelling in each person who belongs to Him which causes us to collectively make up one body. And the meaning of the word 'Omnipresent' is expressed in this Psalm:

Psalm 139:7-12
"Where can I go to escape your spirit? Where can I flee to escape your presence?
If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there. If I were to sprawl out in Sheol, there you would be.
If I were to fly away on the wings of the dawn, and settle down on the other side of the sea, even there your hand would guide me, your right hand would grab hold of me.
If I were to say, "Certainly the darkness will cover me, and the light will turn to night all around me," even the darkness is not too dark for you to see, and the night is as bright as day; darkness and light are the same to you."

Satan cannot be everywhere all at once - but human beings can all at once be deceived by his lies, through each person's individual disobedience to God.

A lying spirit "sent" to each (false) prophet's mouth" is just a way of saying that in the case of each individual prophet, their minds/thoughts/souls were constrained to speak lies. It does not have to be said that such a thing, practically, would probably involve demonic activity in the case of each individual false prophet.

It certainly does not add up to a spirit which is "collectively made up of the devil in each human". If there is any 'collective Satanic spirit' coming out of their mouths when they utter such false doctrine, it belongs to them - but there is no such invisible collective spirit that is 'created BY' their false doctrines, any more than there is an invisible force called 'karma' that we "create" by our actions (any farmer understands what Jesus meant by reaping what you sow. Even investors understand it).

Eve was not talking to herself in the Garden of Eden, and God was not talking to Eve's "own inner spirit" in Genesis 3:15.

These false doctrines do not necessarily come only from those who utter them (in this case @rwb and @TribulationSigns ), and there is no 'spirit' "created" collectively by their lying doctrines. Such lying doctrines often come from the lying spirit who targets those who believe in Jesus to corrupt the the pure, unadulterated Word of God, i.e Satan.

 

[Muna]

It certainly does not ad up to a spirit which is "collectively made up of the devil in each human".

^This^ here @Zao is life I wanted to post off of because I have heard things like Jesus was wrestling his own inner demons and some other whacko things, I mean who knows what people believe, theres all different kinds of flavors of beliefs out there.

They even said that John had a devil

Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. (He had the Holy Ghost)

And of Jesus too

Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

As they said of John (who had the Holy Ghost) that he had a devil, same thing with Jesus when he was led of the Spirit to be tempted here

Mark 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Being in that place, it says the tempter (the devil) came to Jesus

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God

So it wasn't some sort of inner serpent/devil thing, again

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil

So when the tempter (the devil) came unto Jesus, he is shown resisting the devil as James tells us to

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And the next thing you know is, the devil leaveth him

Matt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him

((and, behold )) angels (( came )) and ministered unto him.

And of the angels likewise it says,

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Its good to just follow things as they are written, but I can never tell who I am talking to these days as far as devil/serpent/spirits theology

 

[Zao is life]

You are mistaking the apostles and the first church with us. There is nothing in the New Testament saying "hey, Christians living 2,000 years after us, watch for these signs..."

Of course, in your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering whether or not Jesus was as obsessed as you are with the Old Covenant and the temple that represented it, when less than 36 hours before His crucifixion on the Temple Mount He told the priests, scribes, Pharisees and His disciples about what was to befall the Old Testament Temple. Then, on the Mount of Olives He answered the disciples' question about the Old Testament temple by telling them about what was to befall the New Testament Temple with telling them about the tribulation and persecution that His followers would endure - both before the gathering of armies around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end.

In your complacency with your own human understanding, you have become incapable of considering that through your complacency you have caused yourself to become completely blinded to any possibility that Jesus was not talking only to first century Christians when on the Mount of Olives He answered their question with telling them about the tribulation and persecution that His followers would endure - both before the gathering of armies around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end.

As a result, in your complacency with your own human understanding you have also become completely incapable of NOT conflating the two into one, and making it all about a temple other than the Temple comprised of the living stones of the New Testament Temple which Jesus was talking to and about when He spoke to them about this tribulation and persecution they would endure (without Him even specifically mentioning the Old Testament temple again in what He was saying on the Mount of Olives).

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have completely refused to acknowledge that the tearing of the veil in the sanctuary of the old temple when Jesus died rendered that sanctuary no longer the holy place, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ on the Day of Pentecost inaugurated the New Testament Temple as the holy place

- the very living stones of the New Testament Temple which Jesus was speaking to on the Mount of Olives about the tribulation and persecution they would endure - both before armies gather around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end, though they had asked Him about another Temple - one which while still on the Temple Mount, He had already stated was going to be destroyed.

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering which Temple Jesus had in mind after turning His back on the Temple Mount and making His way to the Mount of Olives, knowing the terrible suffering that lay before Him and was now just hours away, that He was to endure when the Old Testament Temple was made defunct and ceased being the holy place the moment He died and the veil was torn in two, and His death, resurrection and ascension and sending of the Holy Spirit bringing about the New Testament Temple.

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering whether or not Jesus was as obsessed as you are with the Old Covenant and the temple that represented it, when less than 36 hours before His crucifixion on the Temple Mount He told the priests, scribes, Pharisees and His disciples about what was to befall the Old Testament Temple. Then, on the Mount of Olives He answered the disciples' question about the Old Testament temple by telling them about what was to befall the New Testament Temple.

So I leave you to your own complacency with your own human understanding.

 

[Zao is life]

^This^ here @Zao is life I wanted to post off of because I have heard things like Jesus was wrestling his own inner demons and some other whacko things, I mean who knows what people believe, theres all different kinds of flavors of beliefs out there.

They even said that John had a devil

Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. (He had the Holy Ghost)

And of Jesus too

Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

As they said of John (who had the Holy Ghost) that he had a devil, same thing with Jesus when he was led of the Spirit to be tempted here

Mark 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Being in that place, it says the tempter (the devil) came to Jesus

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God

So it wasn't some sort of inner serpent/devil thing, again

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil

So when the tempter (the devil) came unto Jesus, he is shown resisting the devil as James tells us to

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And the next thing you know is, the devil leaveth him

Matt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him

((and, behold )) angels (( came )) and ministered unto him.

And of the angels likewise it says,

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Of course. I don't know who said that to you, but it's the epitome of blasphemy to talk about "Jesus wrestling with His "own inner demons". It's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Hearing this stuff is so alarming to me I don't even want to repeat what they say, though it's necessary when they say such things to correct it immediately.

BUT this is also what I've been seeing very clearly the last while:

I can never tell who I am talking to these days as far as devil/serpent/spirits theology

More and more 'Christians' are making it clear that we are living in a day when among all those who believe in Jesus (or say they believe in Jesus), there is an alarmingly high percentage who are deceived and are going about "deceiving and being deceived". They may believe in Jesus but the Word of God is being badly corrupted by them.

 

[Muna]

This is the truth I teach from Matthew 12:27–29 and Revelation 20. Every one of us was once bound by our own spirit, the spirit of disobedience—the very spirit of Satan—which held us captive under spiritual bondage.

How do you hold yourself captive?

Paul contrasts the spirit of bondage with the spirit of adoption, they are two different Spirits that would control us one way or another. If we have the Spirit of God the Father we are his children, and here it shows His Spirit and ours in Rom 8:16 The Spirit (or God) itself beareth witness with our (own) spirit, that we are the children of God: So God's Spirit (and our spirit) same here Ephes 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit (a prince, a spirit) that now worketh in the children of disobedience. Shows different spirits working in each, two Fathers (whether of God the Father or the devil who could be our father). Two children (children of God or the children of the devil). One of the two work within us, the Spirit of truth (from God) or the father of lies.

Your post indicates your own spirit is the very spirit of Satan and the whole theme of things is that we hold ourselves captive, when Paul shows someone can be taken captive by him. For example here 2 Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

But Christ, in His power, first restrains and binds that spirit so that we may be brought to repentance through the hearing of the Gospel. From Pentecost onward, this divine restraint has continued until the final Elect is secured. Then, and only then, will the spirit of Satan be released to once again deceive the nations—especially those who have not yet received the seal of God. In that short season, there will be no more salvation, for the door of grace will be shut until Christ returns in Glory.

Running off of what you posted above Christ binds us (our own spirit) in our very own captivity?

Tribs, why not just stick with the scriptures?

 

[HealthyShape]

Of course, in your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering whether or not Jesus was as obsessed as you are with the Old Covenant and the temple that represented it, when less than 36 hours before His crucifixion on the Temple Mount He told the priests, scribes, Pharisees and His disciples about what was to befall the Old Testament Temple. Then, on the Mount of Olives He answered the disciples' question about the Old Testament temple by telling them about what was to befall the New Testament Temple with telling them about the tribulation and persecution that His followers would endure - both before the gathering of armies around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end.

In your complacency with your own human understanding, you have become incapable of considering that through your complacency you have caused yourself to become completely blinded to any possibility that Jesus was not talking only to first century Christians when on the Mount of Olives He answered their question with telling them about the tribulation and persecution that His followers would endure - both before the gathering of armies around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end.

As a result, in your complacency with your own human understanding you have also become completely incapable of NOT conflating the two into one, and making it all about a temple other than the Temple comprised of the living stones of the New Testament Temple which Jesus was talking to and about when He spoke to them about this tribulation and persecution they would endure (without Him even specifically mentioning the Old Testament temple again in what He was saying on the Mount of Olives).

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have completely refused to acknowledge that the tearing of the veil in the sanctuary of the old temple when Jesus died rendered that sanctuary no longer the holy place, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ on the Day of Pentecost inaugurated the New Testament Temple as the holy place

- the very living stones of the New Testament Temple which Jesus was speaking to on the Mount of Olives about the tribulation and persecution they would endure - both before armies gather around Jerusalem, and at the time of the end, though they had asked Him about another Temple - one which while still on the Temple Mount, He had already stated was going to be destroyed.

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering which Temple Jesus had in mind after turning His back on the Temple Mount and making His way to the Mount of Olives, knowing the terrible suffering that lay before Him and was now just hours away, that He was to endure when the Old Testament Temple was made defunct and ceased being the holy place the moment He died and the veil was torn in two, and His death, resurrection and ascension and sending of the Holy Spirit bringing about the New Testament Temple.

In your complacency with your own human understanding you have made yourself completely incapable of considering whether or not Jesus was as obsessed as you are with the Old Covenant and the temple that represented it, when less than 36 hours before His crucifixion on the Temple Mount He told the priests, scribes, Pharisees and His disciples about what was to befall the Old Testament Temple. Then, on the Mount of Olives He answered the disciples' question about the Old Testament temple by telling them about what was to befall the New Testament Temple.

So I leave you to your own complacency with your own human understanding.

And now lets try a fun challenge. Say your point in one sentence. And then quote a verse in which something is addressed to people living in 2025 AD.

 

[Zao is life]

And now lets try a fun challenge. Say your point in one sentence. And then quote a verse in which something is addressed to people living in 2025 AD.

You mean like you quoted a verse in which something is addressed to people living only in 70 AD?

The reason why you cannot quote a verse in which something Jesus said on the Mount of Olives is addressed only to people living in 70 AD is because no dates are given in the Olivet Discourse, as you know - only

(a) one reference to a city - Jerusalem, and an event which at least seems to be speaking about 70 AD, rather than a time still to come; and
(b) multiple references to the tribulation and persecution that the living stones of a Temple - the New Testament Temple - would endure - both before the desolation of Jerusalem, and at the time of the end.

Which leaves the passage open to interpretation and - in your case - misinterpretation - which is why you cannot answer any of the points I made in my previous reply to you - at least not with a reasonable answer - and are forced to use a red herring consisting of a demand that I support what I say about a very long passage in one sentence.

So what you think is your cleverness in your reply is in fact your ridiculousness - but you're entitled to make a fool of yourself.

 

[HealthyShape]

You mean like you quoted a verse in which something is addressed to people living only in 70 AD?

The reason why you cannot quote a verse in which something Jesus said on the Mount of Olives is addressed only to people living in 70 AD is because no dates are given in the Olivet Discourse, as you know.

Which leaves it open to interpretation and - in your case - misinterpretation - which is why you cannot answer any of the points I made in my previous reply to you - at least not with a reasonable answer.

What you think is your cleverness in your reply is your ridiculousness - but you're entitled to make a fool of yourself.

Jesus said "you", never "them" referring to some future Christians, He gave His apostles practical advice "watch, run etc" and many times said "this generation" or similar. I think you should read your Bible more carefully.

So no, it does not leave it open to interpretation.

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus said "you", never "them" referring to some future Christians, He gave His apostles practical advice "watch, run etc" and many times said "this generation" or similar. I think you should read your Bible more carefully.

So no, it does not leave it open to interpretation.

Which Temple was Jesus talking about when He said to His disciples "you", "then" etc? The living stones of the New Testament Temple? Or was He saying "you", "then" etc because He was concerned about the tribulation and persecution the priests of the Old Testament Temple were going to experience?

You need to read your Bible more carefully. "This" generation is "hotos o genea" meaning "the same the generation" and it is referring to the generation that would see the signs which are the subject of what Jesus was talking about.

You still have not given any sound biblical support for your assertion that it refers only to the people living in 70 AD, or to that Old Testament temple, or quoted even one verse referring specifically to that Old Testament temple that Jesus uttered when He was on the Mount of Olives, after leaving the temple and the Temple Mount after having already announced it's coming destruction.

You need to read your Bible more carefully.

 

[HealthyShape]

Which Temple was Jesus talking about when He said to His disciples "you", "then" etc?

The temple in Jerusalem during the life time of Jesus and His disciples, of course. Just read Mt 24 or Lk 21 from the beginning to end.

"This" generation is "hotos o genea" meaning "the same the generation" and it is referring to the generation that would see the signs which as the subject of what Jesus was talking about.

Nonsense.

1. It is "hé genea hauté", you obviously do not know Greek, you even used wrong grammatical gender. Genea is not masculine. I do not know why some people here pretend to know more than they do.

2. And it means "this generation", as also correctly translated in your Bible translation which you should read more carefully.

You still have not given any sound biblical support for your assertion that it refers only to the people living in 70 AD, or to that Old Testament temple, or quoted even one verse referring specifically to that Old Testament temple that Jesus uttered on the Mount of Olives, after leaving the temple and the Temple Mount having already announced it's coming destruction.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

"You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21:31

"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)

Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”
J 21:22 (this would make no sense with thousands of years, but it makes sense in the context of their life span)

"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11


"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51


"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2

... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"Look, he is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.”
Rev 1:7

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

"...Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
Rev 22:20

 

[Zao is life]

The temple in Jerusalem during the life time of Jesus and His disciples, of course. Just read Mt 24 or Lk 21 from the beginning to end.

Nonsense. You need to read your Bible more carefully, and educate yourself.

"Every day Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, but at night he went and stayed on the Mount of Olives." (Luke 21:37).

Matthew 24:1-2 took place on the Temple Mount. Matthew 24:3 onward took place on the Mount of Olives. Mark's gospel and Luke's gospel both confirm the fact.

You also need to educate yourself, because the chapter divisions were only added in the 13th century AD, and verse divisions even later. Matthew 24:1-2 are part of what Jesus was saying while He was on the Temple Mount - first in the temple, and then just outside it.

Matthew 23:38-39 and Matthew 24:1-2
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate!
39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, 'Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

1 Now as Jesus was going out of the temple courts and walking away, his disciples came to show him the temple buildings.
2 And he said to them, "Do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left on another. All will be torn down!"

It takes a few minutes to walk down from the Temple Mount, across the Kidron Valley, and up the Mount of Olives.

3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" -- Matthew 24:3.

In all three synoptic gospels, in His reply, after speaking to them about birth-pain signs, Jesus began to tell them about the persecution and tribulation the living stones of the New Testament Temple were to experience.

So I have a question for you - and it has a yes or no answer:

Bearing in mind that it was less than 36 hours before His suffering and His death which rendered the Old Testament temple defunct (signified by the tearing of the veil in that temple when Jesus died),

in your opinion,

When Jesus answered His disciples' question about the Old Testament temple on the Mount of Olives by talking to them a great deal about the persecution and tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament temple were going to experience,

was He still as obsessed with the Old Testament temple with its priesthood and priests as you are in your interpretation of the things Jesus said?

Yes or No?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

IMHO there is only ONE sign that will be accompanied with all the other signs, but few seem to understand what it is.

Matthew 24:14 ... and that has been accomplished just recently.

 

[Scott Downey]

^This^ here @Zao is life I wanted to post off of because I have heard things like Jesus was wrestling his own inner demons and some other whacko things, I mean who knows what people believe, theres all different kinds of flavors of beliefs out there.

They even said that John had a devil

Mat 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. (He had the Holy Ghost)

And of Jesus too

Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

As they said of John (who had the Holy Ghost) that he had a devil, same thing with Jesus when he was led of the Spirit to be tempted here

Mark 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Being in that place, it says the tempter (the devil) came to Jesus

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God

So it wasn't some sort of inner serpent/devil thing, again

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil

So when the tempter (the devil) came unto Jesus, he is shown resisting the devil as James tells us to

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And the next thing you know is, the devil leaveth him

Matt 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him

((and, behold )) angels (( came )) and ministered unto him.

And of the angels likewise it says,

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Its good to just follow things as they are written, but I can never tell who I am talking to these days as far as devil/serpent/spirits theology

Bizarre and evil to say Jesus is wrestling with his inner demons.
Anyone who think this way, maybe is demonized and wrestling with his own inner demons.

John 8

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Before Abraham Was, I AM​

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.
50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.
51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”