Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[Spiritual Israelite]

Although I have bowed out of this particular discussion, I will continue to uphold these truths you are proclaiming. I caution you though, be careful not to drawn into replying in ways that bring dishonor to God. Many blessings rwb

The so-called "truths" that he keeps proclaiming are that spirit beings called angels don't exist and that Gabriel is Jesus Christ. You are allowing this false teacher to influence you. Why? I thought you said you do believe in spirits beings called angels, including evil spirits like Satan and his angels/demons. Has he changed your mind about that? If not, don't you know that by encouraging him the way you are, you are encouraging him to promote things that you don't even believe yourself? I've never seen anyone claim that Gabriel is Jesus Christ before. But, you are agreeing with his posts where he is claiming that. So, that is what you believe, also?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amen

Says here,

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

But rather

Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet.

Speaking of Jesus Christ

Heb 2:8b For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

Jesus ,the Word which was made flesh

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death

Taking on him the seed of Abraham

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


Edit: to add in that last one there

Scripture like that one and many more very clearly differentiate between angels and humans, but TS denies it, anyway. You could show him a scripture that says 1 + 1 = 2 in a mathematical context and he will find a way to make 1 + 1 = 11 or anything but 2.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You had asked me about men being used in visions. The scriptures show that the Lord could do that, since the Lord tells Ananias (in his own vision) that Paul also was seeing a vision, that vision was of a man named Ananias coming to him.

Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

Ananias was the one who the Lord would send to Paul after his vision (which blinded his eyes)

Acts 9:6b And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Who said to Paul

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

That was what I was referring to, so yes I believe men can be used in visions because the scripture shows an example of it there

I specifically made the point about men being used in visions to give people messages from God. I do not believe that God uses men to do that, and instead uses angels like Gabriel to do that. Paul saw a vision of an action that Ananias would do, but there was no message given by Ananias to Paul in a vision.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You already have been refuted here and here.

You have refuted nothing. Instead, you make ridiculous claims like saying Gabriel is Jesus Christ and claiming that the account of the demon-possessed man with many evil spirits/demons is just a parable and that Jesus was made a little lower than human messengers and all kinds of nonsense like that.

Please read the context:

Heb 1:4-14
(4) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
(5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
(6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
(8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
(10) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
(11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
(12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
(13) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
(14) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

...Try/Prove/Test the ministering spirits "because" everyone who claims to be God's "messengers," God's beloved spirits, aren't!

Great job of missing the point. You say that Jesus Himself is an angel/human messenger. You say Gabriel is Jesus and it says Gabriel is an angel. But, that text in Hebrews 1:5 and Hebrews 1:13 makes it clear that God the Father never said "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" and "Sit in my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" to any angel. So, God the Father DID say those things to Jesus, but He did NOT say those things to any angel. That means Jesus is not an angel. But, you falsely claim that He is an angel which you define as a human messenger. But, the text says God did not say those things to any angel, regardless of how you define the word angel.

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.."

Prove the ministering spirits to see if their ministry is actually from God. Amen!

Also you keep insisted 1st Hebrews 1:5 are angels.

"But to which of the messengers said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

The answer is none, since none were the Chief Messenger except Michael, the Messenger of the Covenant who stood up for the people, who fought with the Dragon and His army (Revelation 12) and who gave His army of messengers, His people, the victory over Him by His shed blood. You see it is we (God's Children) who are soldiers in the army of the Lord, and our weapons and shields are spiritual, not carnal. We are all more than conquerors in Christ Jesus. I know you don't like hearing Scripture I quote but here it is anyway.

Revelation 12:7-11

• "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
• And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
• And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
• And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
• And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Angels fighting in literal Heaven?? Perish the thought! They are not getting the physical victory by Christ's death, the messengers of the Kingdom are getting the Spiritual victory by Christ's shed blood. The Satan and His children accused Christ (John 8:6) and argued about the body of Moses with Him, and with this victory the accuser of them is cast down. In other words, this warfare (whatever you might think it is), was won by Christ going to the cross. It's not a literal battle of literal angels in literal heaven like Hollywood may make (God Forbid) as some suppose, but is the stuff of bad movies, Televangelist, Sunday School, and sloppy exegesis, which you are deceived with!

You are the one with the extremely sloppy exegesis. You misinterpret scripture repeatedly and take it out of context. Over and over again. If angels are human messengers, then why does Matthew 25:31-46 talk about Jesus coming with His angels and then having all people gathered to be judged, including all of the righteous (the sheep) and the wicked (the goats)? Angels are differentiated with people there, just as they are in many other scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No you don't get it.



Come on, seriously? It doesn’t mean Stephen turned into some winged angel or be like your version of made-up angels.

LOL! You continue to waste your time with your foolish straw man arguments. Never have I referred to winged angels or anything like that. I have said repeatedly that I believe they are spirit beings, not physical beings.

His radiant face was the clear evidence of God’s presence and Spirit resting on him — a visible testimony that he was God’s glorified messenger standing before them. And yet, instead of falling on their knees in fear, what did they do? Did they at least cover his glowing face before hurling stones at him? Unbelievable.

You continue to miss every point that is made. You seem to have terrible reading comprehension skills. He was already a human messenger before that event occurred, so what would be the point of saying he had a face like a human messenger when he already had a face like a human messenger before that? The reason it was pointed out that he had the face like an angel is because his face didn't look like a normal human face at that time. Otherwise, it would just be a case of pointing out something very obvious for no apparent reason. You act as if they said "Oh wow, Stephen looks like he has the face of a human messenger!" as if they somehow weren't aware that he was human before that.

You are not looking at the context of the passage.

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and signs among the people. 9 Then there arose some from what is called the Synagogue of the Freedmen (Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and those from Cilicia and Asia), disputing with Stephen. 10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spoke. 11 Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.” 12 And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon him, seized him, and brought him to the council. 13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law; 14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.” 15 And all who sat in the council, looking steadfastly at him, saw his face as the face of an angel.

Look at the context of verse 15 carefully, which I guarantee you have never done before. These were unbelievers "from what is called the Synagogue of the Freedmen" who were "disputing with Stephen" and they brought Stephen before the council that was also made up of those who did not believe in Jesus. Why would these Christ rejecters in the council claim that Stephen had the face of a human messenger from God when they didn't even believe that about him since they rejected what he told them and ended up killing him because of what he said to them?

So, Jesus’ face shone like the sun during the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:2). Does that make Him an angel? LOL!

LOL! You missed the point again! Did you not see that I referenced Moses in relation to one's appearance being different than normal? Cleary, I was not making the point that if someone's face is shining that means they must be an angel! Hello? Try harder. The point was that Stephen's face in particular looked different than moral and it was said to look like an angel. He was already a human messenger before that happened, so they certainly were not saying his face looked like that of a human messenger, when that would already be obvious that he was a human messenger.

And Moses — he saw the back of God in His glory, yet even that made his face shine when he came down from the mountain. Did that turn him into an angel, or will be "like" your fantasy being? Of course not! His radiant face showed that he had been in the very presence of God — a glorified messenger, not some winged being from heaven.

Again, my point was NOT to say that someone's face shining means they were an angel. I brought up Moses myself! Did you miss that? I certainly was not trying to say that Moses is an angel. So, you completely missed the point I was making about Stephen and you didnt think about who was saying that his face looked like the face of an angel. The ones who said that did not believe that Stephen was a messenger from God, so they surely were not saying that he had the face like a messenger from God. You once again missed the context of scripture.

One day, Elect too will shine in that same glory, like the stars in His presence. Selah! There will NOT be literal angels in heaven, as some people mistakenly think.

There will be and you will feel foolish when you see them.

LOL. I’ve heard far worse from naysayers, even as I’ve gained faithful supporters. So honestly, your denial doesn’t exactly shock me a bit.

What faithful supporters? It looks like you have a grand total of one and he doesn't even agree with you that spirit beings called angels don't exist.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Like I said, the Lord judges His witnesses and I am comfortable with it. I am done here because I have share some and can see that you guys aren't close to the truth. That is okay, I have better things to do. Go back and have fun with premillennialists/preterists.

Bye

 

[Muna]

I specifically made the point about men being used in visions to give people messages from God. I do not believe that God uses men to do that, and instead uses angels like Gabriel to do that. Paul saw a vision of an action that Ananias would do, but there was no message given by Ananias to Paul in a vision.

I honestly cant tell what you believe in that first line how you worded it, but as far as the scripture shows it I believe it

Jesus gave Paul a vision telling Paul he will be told what to do, and that had to do with Paul being shown another vision of a man named Ananias coming to him in real time to do just that.

Whereas in another vision, an angel of God apeared to Cornelius in a vision and he also was told to call for Simon Peter because he too, would tell Cornelius what he ought to do likewise.

So we have the Lord appearing to Paul, and to Ananaias with his instructions issued both between them and mentioned within their visions, and an angel of God appearing to Cornelius in a vision for him to call for a man (Simon Peter) who had instructions for Cornelius (just after Peter had his own vision of a lowered sheet) which he was musing on before they come for him.

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

At least there its written that he had assuredly gathered that the Lord had called them for to preach the gospel unto them.

 

[WPM]

Like I said, the Lord judges His witnesses and I am comfortable with it. I am done here because I have share some and can see that you guys aren't close to the truth. That is okay, I have better things to do. Go back and have fun with premillennialists/preterists.

Bye

That is what happens when people are in error - they run! You have to. You are fighting the Word of God. You have no answer to it.

You spiritualize angels away as non-entities. You rubbish the reality of Satan, even though he has led you down the path you are on. You deny literal demons. Have you ever been involved in frontline Christian ministry? Obviously not. Get off the internet and off Tony Warren's website, and out of your office and go to an Indian Reservation and see if devils are real.

What is next?" Is Jesus real? Is God real? You are leading RWB down a wrong road. You should be ashamed of yourself.

As Truly highlighted, this is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

 

[Muna]

I am done myself, so whoever is left, enjoy whatever is left of the back and forths.

SI just tag me if you have any further contention over the scenarios I posted.

 

[Muna]

That is what happens when people are in error - they run! You have to. You are fighting the Word of God. You have no answer to it.

You spiritualize angels away as non-entities. You rubbish the reality of Satan, even though he has led you down the path you are on. You deny literal demons. Have you ever been involved in frontline Christian ministry? Obviously not. Get off the internet and off Tony Warren's website, and out of your office and go to an Indian Reservation and see if devils are real.

What is next?" Is Jesus real? Is God real? You are leading RWB down a wrong road. You should be ashamed of yourself.

As Truly highlighted, this is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

You posted as I was posting, and just letting you know (as I make my own departure again from this area of the forum) and I am not running away, because SI and I might disagree on something somewheres on men in visions, its not something worth contending over.

Just tag me back here if someone feels like it is, thats fine I will come back this is just so I dont get pulled back into it right now.

 

[WPM]

You posted as I was posting, and just letting you know (as I make my own departure again from this area of the forum) and I am not running away, because SI and I might disagree on something somewheres on men in visions, its not something worth contending over.

Just tag me back here if someone feels like it is, thats fine I will come back this is just so I dont get pulled back into it right now.

I know you are in agreement with him. You have nothing to hide!

 

[Muna]

I know you are in agreement with him. You have nothing to hide!

Even if I wasn't I dont hide from people I disagree with and wouldnt consider it a reason to hide.

If they are jerks ( can find no better choice of words in the moment) I have been guilty of hanging on to a thing longer than I should have.

 

[WPM]

Even if I wasn't I dont hide from people I disagree with and wouldnt consider it a reason to hide.

If they are jerks ( can find no better choice of words in the moment) I have been guilty of hanging on to a thing longer than I should have.

I know. Ironically, the very thing that they deny is the very thing that is influencing them.

 

[WPM]

Why are you trying to explain to me what you think is in the mind of TS? You seem to have an agenda! What might it be? Because I tried to reply thoughtfully to what I thought you wanted me to help you understand. But I now believe you are just trying to get me to agree that the doctrines espoused by TS are complete and utter heresy! I won't do that! My reply to WPM might also apply to you!

Scripture refutes your error at every turn. It demolishes the Christadelphian of TS.

God's elect are distinguished from the angels.

Matthew 22:29-32 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus is talking about how angels are non-sexual spirits. They are not physical like us. They do not procreate like humans and animals do. But when we get to heaven and have our glorified bodies we shall be like them. There will be no marriage there and no procreation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I honestly cant tell what you believe in that first line how you worded it, but as far as the scripture shows it I believe it

Jesus gave Paul a vision telling Paul he will be told what to do, and that had to do with Paul being shown another vision of a man named Ananias coming to him in real time to do just that.

Whereas in another vision, an angel of God apeared to Cornelius in a vision and he also was told to call for Simon Peter because he too, would tell Cornelius what he ought to do likewise.

So we have the Lord appearing to Paul, and to Ananaias with his instructions issued both between them and mentioned within their visions, and an angel of God appearing to Cornelius in a vision for him to call for a man (Simon Peter) who had instructions for Cornelius (just after Peter had his own vision of a lowered sheet) which he was musing on before they come for him.

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

At least there its written that he had assuredly gathered that the Lord had called them for to preach the gospel unto them.

You're just not getting my point, but it's not a big deal. I'll just try to explain it one more time. Did Ananias speak to Paul in the vision itself and give him a message from God? No. In the vision Paul only saw Ananias putting his hand on him (Paul) so that he could see again. There's no indication that he heard Ananias speaking to him in the vision. Ananias spoke to him when he actually went to see him. So, what I'm saying is that when someone has a vision and actually hears someone speaking to them while they are having the vision with a message from God, that means it's an angel talking to them, not a man. I don't know how else to explain my point. If you still are not understanding my point, then so be it. It's not worth talking about it any further.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You posted as I was posting, and just letting you know (as I make my own departure again from this area of the forum) and I am not running away, because SI and I might disagree on something somewheres on men in visions, its not something worth contending over.

That is a very minor disagreement (not sure if we actually disagree since I think you're just not understanding my point about that) and no one would think you're running away by bowing out of the discussion. You made several good points in this discussion. I think there isn't anything new to bring to the discussion at this point, so I don't have anything to add, either, unless you want to continue discussing visions and who gives people messages from God in them. It's probably not worth it to continue talking about that, though. There are plenty of other ways to prove the existence of angels besides that.

 

[Muna]

You're just not getting my point, but it's not a big deal. I'll just try to explain it one more time. Did Ananias speak to Paul in the vision itself and give him a message from God? No. In the vision Paul only saw Ananias putting his hand on him (Paul) so that he could see again. There's no indication that he heard Ananias speaking to him in the vision. Ananias spoke to him when he actually went to see him. So, what I'm saying is that when someone has a vision and actually hears someone speaking to them while they are having the vision with a message from God, that means it's an angel talking to them, not a man. I don't know how else to explain my point. If you still are not understanding my point, then so be it. It's not worth talking about it any further.

I actually thought your first point was plain, to which I was responding

When you stated this

How can anyone think that Gabriel is a human messenger and not an angel? Are human messengers able to appear to people in visions and dreams and talk to them? Of course not.

And I was just pointing out Moses and Elias on the mount, these were talking to Jesus before them about his death

Mark 9"4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

And the Angel of God in a vision tells Ananias that Saul/Paul has seen a vision of him (a man) that would be coming to him in accordance with the instruction Jesus gave to Paul in his vision (Acts 22:10, Acts 22:12)

Acts 9:12 And (Saul) hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

And Paul also saw a man in a vision talking to him asking him to come help them

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

I think we could both agree that human messengers can appear in visions and in some cases talk in them. You just might have certain lines drawn in your own understanding that are not plainly written that I cannot understand that you might be bringing to this thing.

You can have the last word on it if you prefer

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I actually thought your first point was plain, to which I was responding

When you stated this

How can anyone think that Gabriel is a human messenger and not an angel? Are human messengers able to appear to people in visions and dreams and talk to them? Of course not.

And I was just pointing out Moses and Elias on the mount, these were talking to Jesus before them about his death

Mark 9"4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

That wasn't a case of someone appearing to someone else in a vision to give them a message. That is what I'm talking about. I'm saying that God sends angels to do that, not men.

And the Angel of God in a vision tells Ananias that Saul/Paul has seen a vision of him (a man) that would be coming to him in accordance with the instruction Jesus gave to Paul in his vision (Acts 22:10, Acts 22:12)

Acts 9:12 And (Saul) hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

And Paul also saw a man in a vision talking to him asking him to come help them

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

I think we could both agree that human messengers can appear in visions and in some cases talk in them. You just might have certain lines drawn in your own understanding that are not plainly written that I cannot understand that you might be bringing to this thing.

You can have the last word on it if you prefer

I don't believe that Acts 16:9 is talking about a human appearing to Paul in a vision and talking to him. How is any human capable of doing that exactly? I can understand Paul seeing a vision of a human doing something like he did when he saw a vision of Ananias laying his hands on him to restore his sight, but the idea of a human actually talking to him in a vision is another thing altogether. I believe angels can and have appeared to humans in visions and talked to them while giving them a message from God, but I don't believe God uses any humans for that purpose. I believe the "man of Macedonia" who appeared to Paul in his vision was an angel appearing in human form. Angels, like Gabriel, are sometimes referred to as men in scripture just because of how they appeared to someone.

 

[WPM]

Because we stand firm upon the foundation of truth that you cannot seems to break. :-)

WPM is wrong with his assessment because he disseminating the all-pervasive mythos of fanciful church tradition, not the authoritative word of God. Do faithful Christians get their interpretations and understanding from secular sites or church tradition regurgitating over-imaginative folklore, myths, legends, and fables, or do they get it from the divine source from which Christianity sprang?

Hebrews 1:13-14

• "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
• Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

ἄγγελος [aggelos], or messengers, are defined as ministering spirits that God sends to minister to the elect. And God cautions us not to believe every spirit, because there are spirits that witness truthfully, and there are spirits that are false prophets that deceive. Believe the truthful ministering spirits, not the false ones. As it is written:

2nd Corinthians 3:6

• "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

We "ARE" the ἄγγελος or messengers of God that are sent forth to minister to the saints that are called unto salvation. This is according to God, who has made us able ministers of the New Testament good news in the Spirit that makes alive. Selah.

Another proof is:

The truth that the word means Messenger, and that's what an ἄγγελος or [aggelos] is. Q.E.D., So what's really to debate?

Luke 7:27-28

• "This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my angel ἄγγελος before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
• For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

Was the "man" John the Baptist an ἄγγελος (Messenger)? Or was John an angel sent from heaven by God? No, he was a man born of a woman and a ἄγγελος sent by God to prepare the way of Christ. Again, what's to debate. ..the truth?

THIS is the only unadulterated, undeniable, unassailable, God-authored truth that this article puts forth--that the word "transliterated" and anglicized as "angels, is actually the word messengers. ...further, it's not derived (formed or developed from something else) from the Greek word messenger, it is the Greek word, messenger!! That ἄγγελος is the Greek word Messenger shouldn't even be in debate. And it is ONLY because there are those like YOU, WPM and others, who wish it to mean some extrabiblical entity that the word of God doesn't speak about! There will always be some debate "because of the hardness of the heart" of many who can look at a tree and claim that it isn't wood. Truly, truly, that is the nature of the delusion of man.

Proverbs 26:16

• "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason."

The sluggard's course is foolish and ruinous because he thinks so highly of himself as to be arrogant, pompous proud in his own conceit that he sees himself as so much wiser than those who can offer a sound reason. He is therefore inclined to despise the sound reasoning and sagacious counsels of the wise. Showing again that those who don't think or seek counsel of the Lord are left ignorant of their ignorance. Their vanity, ego, and conceit rule them instead of God. The word "transliterated" angel (since there is no word meaning angel in Scripture) is a direct from the Greek word "messenger." This they usually do not deny because it is hard for them to kick against the pricks, while in practice they actually do deny it.

Next!

Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

After His temptation, was this a bunch of human prophets that came and ministered to the Lord?

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Was this a human prophet that descended to the tomb?

 

[WPM]

Can someone have more than 1 demon?

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

1 devil getting 7 more wicked means there are 8 devils living in the same person. This describes to me the religious person that doesn't truly surrender, they may be convicted, they may desire a time clean house, the devil may leave for a season, but the Holy Spirit does not come to live within them. After a while that same demon brings 7 more wicked demons with him and takes ownership of his house, only he takes more control.

What about Mary Magdalene? She had 7 devils?

Luke 8:2And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Mark 16: 9¶Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

What about the man controlled by a legion of demons?

Mar 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Mar 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

A Roman legion was somewhere between 1000 and 6000 men. In this case you were looking at about 2000 devils.

TS and rwb make Jesus and the Word of God to be lies. They argue that these demons were fictional. They were not real. They represented abstract evil not real evil invisible entities with personalities that entered certain wicked and tormented them. If a devil simply represents evil, what are multiple devils? They have no answer for the many points brought up in the Op. That is why they had to run with their tails between their legs.

I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life.