No one has seen God at any time, John?

[ScottA]

Adding to his creed would be changing his creed. Where in scripture do you see him adding to his creed?

He did not and will not "add to His creed." However, a part that was always His creed was not fully revealed, but sealed until the end.

 

[Matthias]

Do you reject that Jesus' creed was not fully stated at that time when your version of monotheism was formed, that there were things yet to be revealed that are a part of His creed?

I commented earlier in our conversation that my creed is Jesus’ creed. The creed of Judaism hasn’t changed.

 

[Matthias]

He did not and will not "add to His creed."

That’s right.

However, a part that was always His creed was not fully revealed, but sealed until the end.

The creed of Judaism is what it has always been.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Thanks. Do you believe that Jesus is the Father?

As God is our Father, yes, I do ....because He is God. And yet, He is the Son of God... the Word (which is God) that was made flesh ....lived a sinless, holy life and is the spotless Lamb that took my place on the cross. He conquered sin and death and rose again the third day. He appeared to many and ascended to the right hand of the Father. He is there ever interceding for us. I believe ALL of scripture ...not just certain ones so that I can manipulate them to fit my chosen theology.

 

[Matthias]

As God is our Father, yes, I do ....because He is God. And yet, He is the Son of God... the Word (which is God) that was made flesh ....lived a sinless, holy life and is the spotless Lamb that took my place on the cross. He conquered sin and death and rose again the third day. He appeared to many and ascended to the right hand of the Father. He is there ever interceding for us. I believe ALL of scripture ...not just certain ones so that I can manipulate them to fit my chosen theology.

Do you understand that trinitarianism teaches that the Son is not the Father?

Do you agree with @ScottA (see his post #126 and #133) that trinitarians in some way reject Christ and will weep and gnash their teeth?

 

[dak]

The truth is, if you do not believe that Jesus is who He said/says He is, you will die in your sins, as you are believing in a false Jesus.

John 8:21-25
8.21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.8.22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.8.23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.8.24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Adding words to the "I am" statement of the Master destroys the meaning. He does not say "I am he". They understood that he did not complete the I am statement at one point and actually asked him, "You are who?" (not Who are you?, but You are who?) because they knew the statement was incomplete. He then answered them, and therein is the answer for every I am statement in the passage, for those who hang on his every word and believe what he says.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Do you understand that trinitarianism teaches that the Son is not the Father?

I don't care about labels, @Matthias. I don't put myself under a label. I just take the scripture for what it says.

Isaiah 9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 14:7-9
14.7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.14.8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.14.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus said that any who have seen Him has seen the Father. We don't have to explain it away. Just believe what He said.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Adding words to the "I am" statement of the Master destroys the meaning. He does not say "I am he". They understood that he did not complete the I am statement at one point and actually asked him, "You are who?" (not Who are you?, but You are who?) because they knew the statement was incomplete. He then answered them, and therein is the answer for every I am statement in the passage, for those who hang on his every word and believe what he says.

I quoted the scripture as it is written. Your problem isn't with me, it's with God and His Word.

I will only state the truth. I don't plan to spend hours and days debating with people who reject the truth and reject the true Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Shaking off the dust....

 

[Matthias]

I don't care about labels, @Matthias. I don't put myself under a label. I just take the scripture for what it says.

Isaiah 9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 14:7-9
14.7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.14.8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.14.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus said that any who have seen Him has seen the Father. We don't have to explain it away. Just believe what He said.

I don’t fully agree with what @ScottA said about the trinitarians. I doubt that it will matter to you but I wanted you to know.

The Jesus who is a Jewish monotheist isn’t his own God and Father.

 

[ScottA]

Then you are saying - even though you have “told me nothing” - that the trinitarians will be weeping and gnashing their teeth unless they repent and believe what you believe.

Don’t you think you owe it to them to warn them?

Not what I "believe." That has not been the nature of my communication with you.

I owe nothing, but have revealed much.

 

[ScottA]

I do understand that. Deuteronomy 18:15, 18.



I understand that the Jesus who is a Jewish monotheist isn’t the Jesus who sent you to me.

Then you understand very little. As I said, only part.

 

[ScottA]

I commented earlier in our conversation that my creed is Jesus’ creed. The creed of Judaism hasn’t changed.

And I have told you that "changed" is the wrong word...not the issue.

 

[ScottA]

That’s right.



The creed of Judaism is what it has always been.

You still have not acknowledged that all of His creed was not revealed at that time, and would not be until the end.

 

[Matthias]

You still have not acknowledged the all of His creed was revealed, and would not be until the end.

The creed of Judaism is fully revealed in scripture. Jesus is still a Jewish monotheist. All of scripture aligns with his Jewish monotheism. Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

 

[Matthias]

And I have told you that "changed" is the wrong word...not the issue.

The issue is that you are saying that Jesus is no longer a Jewish monotheist and I’m saying that he is.

 

[dak]

I quoted the scripture as it is written. Your problem isn't with me, it's with God and His Word.

I will only state the truth. I don't plan to spend hours and days debating with people who reject the truth and reject the true Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Shaking off the dust....

Not true. You quoted a translation the way your chosen translation is written.
That is clearly not the same.

John 8:24 T/R (Textus Receptus)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

John 8:24 BYZ (Byzantine (Text Type) Majority Text)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

John 8:24 N/A-W/H (Nestle/Aland - Westcott/Hort)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

These are all the same and none of them has "he" attached to ego eimi. In fact, though these are the most well known and used, none of the Greek texts contains "he". It has been inserted into the text by your chosen translator(s). Some translations place he in italics to let the reader know that it is not actually in the text and was added: others, shameful ones, don't even do that.

John 8:24 Greek Text Analysis

If one does not study this out and come to understand it by the Testimony of the Master in the passage, and believe what he says, then the same is merely believing, (and-or preaching), a false narrative concerning this passage which glorifies their favorite translators over and above the Master and his Testimony in the passage.

Logos Logic

If anyone will, follow the simple systematic logic in the following emphatic statements of the Meshiah, and there is a reward to come for doing so, (once the relative consequences to doctrine are understood and carried out in the faithful one). First off: Point #1 The term ho logos in John...

www.christianityboard.com

Go ahead and shake off the dust if you will.
Nice chatting.......

 

[Matthias]

Then you understand very little. As I said, only part.

It doesn’t take a theologian to grasp that you are opposed to Jewish monotheism and to trinitarianism.

 

[ScottA]

The creed of Judaism is fully revealed in scripture. Jesus is still a Jewish monotheist. All of scripture aligns with his Jewish monotheism. Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

You don't need to repeat that part. What is of issue in your own expressed theology, is that part that was written but not revealed at the time that your stated doctrine was formed. And if it was, you could state it also, but cannot.

 

[Matthias]

You don't need to repeat that part.

I’m going to repeat what I believe, even while you refrain (you say) from telling me what you believe.

What is of issue in your own expressed theology, is that part that was written but not revealed at the time that your stated doctrine was formed. And if it was, you could state it also, but cannot.

I’m expressing my theology as fully revealed in scripture - the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. My theology / my doctrine concerning God is the Messiah’s theology / doctrine concerning God. I’m reminding you that you called it “good” and excellent”.

I’ve stated it repeatedly.

 

[ScottA]

Not true. You quoted a translation the way your chosen translation is written.
That is clearly not the same.

John 8:24 T/R (Textus Receptus)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

John 8:24 BYZ (Byzantine (Text Type) Majority Text)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

John 8:24 N/A-W/H (Nestle/Aland - Westcott/Hort)
24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων

These are all the same and none of them has "he" attached to ego eimi. In fact, though these are the most well known and used, none of the Greek texts contains "he". It has been inserted into the text by your chosen translator(s). Some translations place he in italics to let the reader know that it is not actually in the text and was added: others, shameful ones, don't even do that.

John 8:24 Greek Text Analysis

If one does not study this out and come to understand it by the Testimony of the Master in the passage, and believe what he says, then the same is merely believing, (and-or preaching), a false narrative concerning this passage which glorifies their favorite translators over and above the Master and his Testimony in the passage.

Logos Logic

If anyone will, follow the simple systematic logic in the following emphatic statements of the Meshiah, and there is a reward to come for doing so, (once the relative consequences to doctrine are understood and carried out in the faithful one). First off: Point #1 The term ho logos in John...

www.christianityboard.com

Go ahead and shake off the dust if you will.
Nice chatting....... View attachment 71768

Perhaps I should let @TLHKAJ answer...but those passages do not make void the fact that the Son was and is included in "let US create man in OUR image", whom are biblically defined as "One."