Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[rwb]

Sorry, this is the fringe. You are way off the path, way different from what the church has believed for the last 2000 years and before that the Jews.
This POV has no historical church standing by anyone of any repute. I chock this up as an end time delusion, just another of many.

The doctrine you cling to does not come from the Word of God. Your doctrine is built upon mythology and tradition of man of old who lacked knowledge of things that would be when the promised Messiah would come to set the captives free through His Spirit in us. That time has come; it came when Christ came to earth a man. We have been living in the last days until the time of the end, the time when the prophecy is no longer sealed up, when knowledge would be increased through the Spirit of Christ within us.

Instead of increasing in biblical knowledge through the Spirit of Christ in you, you willfully choose to follow tradition and mythology of men of Old who could not know the things the Spirit of Christ in us would teach us. Because the Spirit who would guide us unto truth, thou with those men of old, was not in them. You lack knowledge, not because the Spirit of Christ is not in you, but because you have closed your mind to receiving things you lack understanding about. You readily accept teachings of Old from man who lacked wisdom that comes from God IN US. You've convinced yourself that though the doctrines these men of old teach force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God, nevertheless you will cling to them without realizing that through the Spirit sent from Christ in us, the knowledge we have today is as the mind of Christ by His Spirit. With a closed mind your thinking has returned to natural man that we must constantly fight against.

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 (KJV) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Revelation 22:10 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[rwb]

Revelation 12 as prophesied by Daniel

Daniel foretells what would come to pass in the last days when the promised Messiah would at long last come to earth with salvation for whosoever among the sons of mankind (thy people) believe on Him would be saved.

Daniel was given to know what would take place in these last days, but the message from Daniel could not be understood in the days of Daniel. That The Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord would come and when He came Michael, Chief Messenger, the Holy Spirit of Christ would stand up for the children of faith to wage war against the demonic spirits of Satan preventing them from ever again accusing faithful saints before God as he is shown doing when Satan accused Job before God long ago.

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The battle between the forces of good, angels (messengers) of God, and the forces of evil, devils/demons (messengers) of Satan began to take place in heaven and would continue to be waged on earth when Christ came to earth a man. Satan and his demonic hosts were cast out of the spiritual habitation and bound to the earth forever. The Holy Spirit who is God is the one called Michael, and when Christ was born a man, the Holy Spirit, Michael and the angels of God fought against Satan, the dragon and his demonic spirit hosts. Because the Kingdom of our God, and the power of Christ had come with salvation so the accuser of believers could no longer hold them in bondage to sin and fear of death. Christ had already won the war through His Holy Spirit. But this was only the beginning for all that would come as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is sent unto all the nations of the world and the Kingdom of God in heaven would be completed as much more and far greater warfare between the forces of good and evil would come to the earth.

The book of the prophecy was sealed up in the days of Old and was not made manifest to mankind until the right time was at hand. That time was the birth of Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah foretold to come and make an end to sin, and defeat death for all who believe in Him. The message was never to describe how Satan was once an angel of God and became the Devil when he disobeyed God. Satan and his demonic spirit beings have always been the forces behind all that is evil in this world.

Revelation 22:10-11 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Revelation 12:5 (KJV) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:17 (KJV) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[WPM]

Address the questions you feel I have not answered!

All of them. Take them 1 by 1.

 

[rwb]

All of them. Take them 1 by 1.

That would be repeating myself again and most likely again! Why do you not simply address what I've said, and show me through the Word of God why you believe my understanding errs? It's not a discussion, but rather talking to myself when repeating again and again the things I've already stated.

 

[WPM]

The doctrine you cling to does not come from the Word of God. Your doctrine is built upon mythology and tradition of man of old who lacked knowledge of things that would be when the promised Messiah would come to set the captives free through His Spirit in us. That time has come; it came when Christ came to earth a man. We have been living in the last days until the time of the end, the time when the prophecy is no longer sealed up, when knowledge would be increased through the Spirit of Christ within us.

Instead of increasing in biblical knowledge through the Spirit of Christ in you, you willfully choose to follow tradition and mythology of men of Old who could not know the things the Spirit of Christ in us would teach us. Because the Spirit who would guide us unto truth, thou with those men of old, was not in them. You lack knowledge, not because the Spirit of Christ is not in you, but because you have closed your mind to receiving things you lack understanding about. You readily accept teachings of Old from man who lacked wisdom that comes from God IN US. You've convinced yourself that though the doctrines these men of old teach force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God, nevertheless you will cling to them without realizing that through the Spirit sent from Christ in us, the knowledge we have today is as the mind of Christ by His Spirit. With a closed mind your thinking has returned to natural man that we must constantly fight against.

Daniel 12:4 (KJV) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:9 (KJV) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Revelation 22:10 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

And why do you both avoid multiple posts above that forbid your error?

 

[rwb]

And why do you both avoid multiple posts above that forbid your error?

What do you believe I've avoided? I've attempted to be thorough in my replies, so what in these multiple posts have I avoided?

 

[WPM]

That would be repeating myself again and most likely again! Why do you not simply address what I've said, and show me through the Word of God why you believe my understanding errs? It's not a discussion, but rather talking to myself when repeating again and again the things I've already stated.

You have been very contradictory and obscure.

Take them 1 by 1 if you have an interest in clarification.

 

[WPM]

What do you believe I've avoided? I've attempted to be thorough in my replies, so what in these multiple posts have I avoided?

Men and angels are different

The Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

In heaven, God's elect are distinguished from the angels:

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Jesus taught:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Are humans coming to gather us at the second coming?

Ephesians 6:12 tells us what we do not fight against, then tells us what we do fight against.

• It tells us: “we wrestle not against flesh and blood.” This is talking about humans.
• It then tells us that we wrestle “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

This also distinguished between angels and men. They are not the same. Satan and his demons are clearly real evil beings/entities (with personalities) not the abstract evil within unregenerate man. We are not fighting a natural physical holy war today against humans like they did in the Old Testament. We are exclusively fighting a spiritual war in the heavenlies. We are not fighting with carnal power or human ingenuity. We are not fighting politicians and governments.

 

[Scott Downey]

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 6 - New King James Version

Children and Parents - Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.” And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring...

www.biblegateway.com

​

The Whole Armor of God​

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [b]wiles of the devil.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

[rwb]

You have been very contradictory and obscure.

Take them 1 by 1 if you have an interest in clarification.

The problem for me is that you have shown a very hostile, antagonistic attitude throughout this thread. This attitude implies you understand what I HAVE SAID and you disagree with it. Instead of addressing what I'VE SAID, you feign lack of understanding and say I'm contradictory without saying what I'VE SAID that makes you believe this. Therefore it would serve no beneficial purpose to repeat again what I'VE SAID!

 

[WPM]

What do you believe I've avoided? I've attempted to be thorough in my replies, so what in these multiple posts have I avoided?

This is not a new battle. It is an ancient one:

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

You are in horrible company. I trust God has mercy upon you both.

God's elect are distinguished from the angels.

Matthew 22:29-32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus is talking about how angels are non-sexual spirits. They are not physical like us. They do not procreate like humans and animals do. But when we get to heaven and have our glorified bodies we shall be like them. There will be no marriage there and no procreation.

2 Kings 19:35 tells us: “the angel of the LORD went out, and killed in the camp of the one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses—all dead.”

What human being in history slew 185,000 men in one night?

So, if this is not a human, who or what is this angel? Where did it come from?

Matt 26:52-53

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Who were these angels? Where were they located?

Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Who was this angel? Where was it from? Was is a visible being?

In 2 Kings 6 the king of Syria prepared an impressive army for the purpose of nullifying Elisha.

2 Kings 6:

15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?

2 Kings 6:16 And he (Elisha) answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

Please see: these 2 men are looking at the same scene but one is seeing things from an earthly perspective (the servant), the other from a heavenly perspective (Elisha). Evidently, they were not in the same place with God. Elisha’s servant was too attached to the natural realm, whereas Elisha was connected to the spiritual.

2 Kings 6:17And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Are these real angels? Are they real entities distinct to man? Were they heavenly beings? Were these visible beings? Or, where these figments of these men's imaginations?

 

[WPM]

The problem for me is that you have shown a very hostile, antagonistic attitude throughout this thread. This attitude implies you understand what I HAVE SAID and you disagree with it. Instead of addressing what I'VE SAID, you feign lack of understanding and say I'm contradictory without saying what I'VE SAID that makes you believe this. Therefore it would serve no beneficial purpose to repeat again what I'VE SAID!

Please do not speak on my behalf. I am not hostile or antagonistic. I have not feigned anything. I am sincere in my enquiry and vehemently opposed to your error.

 

[rwb]

Men and angels are different

The Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.

Where did I SAY men and angels are the same?

In heaven, God's elect are distinguished from the angels:

Where did I SAY the elect of God in heaven are the same as angels. What I have said many times, in many threads is that when Christ is asked whose wife of seven husbands the woman would be at the resurrection, He was referring to HIS bodily resurrection of the dead that all who have part in life shall also have part in His resurrection life, and shall be as angels of God in heaven. IOW when we have part in Christ's resurrection, because He is the first resurrection from the dead to never die again, man of faith has spiritually entered the Kingdom of God in heaven the "spiritual body" of Christ. Heb 2 which you quote above says this, and the Apostle Paul also tells us that when we are absent physically from our body of flesh, we are the spiritual body of Christ in heaven "living souls."

Christ doesn't say we will become His angels in heaven, He says only that we shall be ARE AS the angels of God in heaven, spirits, that DO NOT MARRY AND ARE NOT GIVEN IN MARRIAGE. Once we possess ETERNAL spiritual life the spirit in man, through the Holy Spirit in us NEVER DIES.

Matthew 22:28-32 (KJV) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This passage alone should prove the "sons of God" we read of in Genesis are NOT fallen angels of God, who take human form and produce offspring with women of flesh & blood.

At His coming Christ became the firstfruits of those who died in faith waiting for His coming. They were the firstfruits of the SPIRIT, rescued in spiritual body from the grave before Christ ascended to heaven, first going to the place of the dead from Old called the bosom of Abraham. That part of the grave was emptied and remains empty forever.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:38 (KJV) But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-50 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The spiritual body in heaven "living souls" return with Christ when the last trumpet sounds and our mortal body too shall be resurrected immortal & incorruptible, made alive through spirit that is breath that shall return our flesh to physical life again.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-15 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Are humans coming to gather us at the second coming?

Where have I SAID humans shall gather believers at the second coming? Believers are aiding God in gathering together His elect as we take the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the earth, that the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven would be complete.

It is written "He shall send His angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven".

Ephesians 6:12 tells us what we do not fight against, then tells us what we do fight against.

• It tells us: “we wrestle not against flesh and blood.” This is talking about humans.
• It then tells us that we wrestle “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

Where have I SAID otherwise?

This also distinguished between angels and men. They are not the same. Satan and his demons are clearly real evil beings/entities (with personalities) not the abstract evil within unregenerate man. We are not fighting a natural physical holy war today against humans like they did in the Old Testament. We are exclusively fighting a spiritual war in the heavenlies. We are not fighting with carnal power or human ingenuity. We are not fighting politicians and governments.

One more time, all of humanity is born in evil, having as their father the Devil. Being children of the Devil means that what he wants, we want, what he does we do, you cannot separate his human vessels from the Devil, for he uses his children born of man to accomplish his evil purposes. In this manner we do not become evil spirits, but we are most certainly his offspring, doing his will, which is why man must be born again, and also why it is not error to say what we do in life and deeds gives the appearance they are as demons/devils. In the same way mankind of faith is known as children of God.

 

[rwb]

Please do not speak on my behalf. I am not hostile or antagonistic. I have not feigned anything. I am sincere in my enquiry and vehemently opposed to your error.

What error? You haven't shown a thing I'VE ACTUALLY SAID that you oppose and view as error! You're simply outraged because I gave likes to one YOU have determined does not merit them. You don't get to tell anyone who they can and cannot give likes to. I don't have to explain myself to you. Some replies are likable even if shown not to have PERFERTION in explaining what they believe. I've even given likes in the past to some of your replies that contained parts that I did not believe you expressed very well, and that I did not believe you have perfect understanding of.

 

[WPM]

What error? You haven't shown a thing I'VE ACTUALLY SAID that you oppose and view as error! You're simply outraged because I gave likes to one YOU have determined does not merit them. You don't get to tell anyone who they can and cannot give likes to. I don't have to explain myself to you. Some replies are likable even if shown not to have PERFERTION in explaining what they believe. I've even given likes in the past to some of your replies that contained parts that I did not believe you expressed very well, and that I did not believe you have perfect understanding of.

No. He came out with outlandish claims and you liked and loved it. That is what I have been trying to ascertain where you disagree with him. But you refuse. This is all on you.

Be more open and forthcoming about where you differ and then we might understand you better.

 

[rwb]

No. He came out with outlandish claims and you liked and loved it. That is what I have been trying to ascertain where you disagree with him. But you refuse. This is all on you.

Be more open and forthcoming about where you differ and then we might understand you better.

You seem to be bent on throwing out the baby with the bath water! Who made you judge of what is in man's heart? Where does Scripture say unless we have perfect understanding of all biblical doctrine, we are damned forever?

 

[rwb]

No. He came out with outlandish claims and you liked and loved it. That is what I have been trying to ascertain where you disagree with him. But you refuse. This is all on you.

Be more open and forthcoming about where you differ and then we might understand you better.

This is according to your opinion!

 

[WPM]

You seem to be bent on throwing out the baby with the bath water! Who made you judge of what is in man's heart? Where does Scripture say unless we have perfect understanding of all biblical doctrine, we are damned forever?

What are you talking about? Who talked about damnation?

 

[rwb]

What are you talking about? Who talked about damnation?

Why would you label faithful saints Christadelphians, as you and others here have? They believe in salvation according to man's good works that must be accompanied by immersion in water. They reject assurance of salvation and teach only those who remain in Christ through good works will be saved. They also believe after death believers are in a state of non-existence, knowing nothing until the bodily resurrection at the return of Jesus. And that only those who after the judgment have been accepted will they receive immortality. Lastly, they believe with Jesus on a renewed earth, He will assist in establishing the Kingdom of God and rule over the remaining population for a thousand literal years but deny immortality of the whole man or living soul.

Christadelphians hold several unbiblical doctrines, including:

• Rejection of the Trinity: They do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, which is considered essential by mainstream Christianity.
  
  2
• Non-existence of Jesus: Christadelphians believe that Jesus was a man and did not exist in three persons, which contradicts traditional Christian beliefs.
  
  2
• Baptism as a Requirement for Salvation: They believe baptism is necessary for salvation, which is seen as a departure from traditional Christian teachings.
  
  2
• No Immortality of the Soul: Christadelphians do not believe in the immortality of the soul, which is a core tenet of many Christian denominations.
  
  1
• No Central Governing Body: They maintain that they possess the truth and do not engage in ecumenism or have a hierarchical structure.
  
  2
  These beliefs distinguish Christadelphians from mainstream Christianity and reflect their unique theological perspective.

Since Christadelphians deny salvation is of grace alone through faith alone by the works of Christ alone, you must believe myself and TS are not saved and damned if we continue to believe the doctrines of heresy of which you and others have labeled us with.

 

[WPM]

Why would you label faithful saints Christadelphians, as you and others here have? They believe in salvation according to man's good works that must be accompanied by immersion in water. They reject assurance of salvation and teach only those who remain in Christ through good works will be saved. They also believe after death believers are in a state of non-existence, knowing nothing until the bodily resurrection at the return of Jesus. And that only those who after the judgment have been accepted will they receive immortality. Lastly, they believe with Jesus on a renewed earth, He will assist in establishing the Kingdom of God and rule over the remaining population for a thousand literal years but deny immortality of the whole man or living soul.

Christadelphians hold several unbiblical doctrines, including:

• Rejection of the Trinity: They do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, which is considered essential by mainstream Christianity.
  
  2
• Non-existence of Jesus: Christadelphians believe that Jesus was a man and did not exist in three persons, which contradicts traditional Christian beliefs.
  
  2
• Baptism as a Requirement for Salvation: They believe baptism is necessary for salvation, which is seen as a departure from traditional Christian teachings.
  
  2
• No Immortality of the Soul: Christadelphians do not believe in the immortality of the soul, which is a core tenet of many Christian denominations.
  
  1
• No Central Governing Body: They maintain that they possess the truth and do not engage in ecumenism or have a hierarchical structure.
  
  2
  These beliefs distinguish Christadelphians from mainstream Christianity and reflect their unique theological perspective.

Since Christadelphians deny salvation is of grace alone through faith alone by the works of Christ alone, you must believe myself and TS are not saved and damned if we continue to believe the doctrines of heresy of which you and others have labeled us with.

I did not say you are Christadelphians. But you are both promoting a major Christadelphian doctrine. Big difference.