What a Modern Christian Needs to Understand to Tackle Today's Challenges

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amigo de christo

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Could you clarify who you’re referring to here? If you mean Orthodox and Catholic Christians, the primary doctrinal disagreement between them centers on the Filioque clause in the Nicene Creed. However, both Orthodox and Catholics strictly adhere to the Creed, which encapsulates the fundamental dogmas of the faith. Every Catholic and Orthodox believer is expected to accept the Creed as a unified statement of core beliefs, leaving no room for disagreement on these essentials within their respective traditions.

With Protestants, however, the situation is different. I once spoke with two Protestants from the same church, and one expressed a belief that contradicted the other’s. When I pointed out the inconsistency, they shrugged it off, saying, “Oh, that’s normal! That’s his personal faith, and this is mine. I don’t criticize his, and he doesn’t criticize mine.”
From this experience, I concluded that there are as many versions of Protestant faith as there are Protestants—each with their own unique, personal interpretation. To me, this is absurd. Truth is objective; it cannot be subjective, varying from person to person. This lack of a unified foundation makes meaningful dialogue with Protestants challenging, as they often lack a common doctrinal core.

There’s also a common myth that Protestants know the Bible well. In my experience, this is often an illusion. Many Protestants memorize a handful of verses to use in debates but rarely engage with the full scope of Scripture. Some may read the Bible but struggle to understand it deeply or study it systematically. As a result, each Protestant tends to develop their own personal, unique take on the Bible, shaped by individual interpretation rather than a shared framework.

You don’t have to look far for an example. In the thread “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord,response #194 highlights a case where a single phrase was pulled out of context from just one verse. Not from the entire Bible, not from a single Gospel, not even from a whole chapter—but from one verse!

This is why the frequent quoting of Scripture by Protestants can create the impression that they know the Bible well. In reality, many don’t truly understand it or see the bigger picture. As a result, there are as many interpretations of the Bible as there are Protestants, and behind these interpretations can be anything—sometimes even the most blatant nonsense that pops into someone’s head.
Adhereing to a creed , but do they follow Christ .
Many can quoate a creed , just as i once could quoate the gospel .
However if that same person turns and contradicts THE ONE WHO saved us
by praticing wicked things , as i once could , THEN its naught but lip service .
Ecumenicism is now the snare that at the end of days has brought us unto its interfaith .
And it will grave every last one who partakes of its cup of love which has led them to The lie .
Did you know right now we have a very high number in christendom
which claim to BELEIVE the gospel and yet DO NOT BELEIVE the gospel .
How so you might be thinking .
THE gospel is very clear that ONE MUST BELEIVE IN the ressurection of CHRIST and confess HIM to BE SAVED .
And many have indeed cliamed this , ONLY TO TURN around and prove they DO NOT .
HOW so , THEY make claim all other religoins serve the same GOD we do
and are all headed to GOD differently . MEANING what , THEY DO NOT BELEIVE ONE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAV ED
and it has made their faith VOID as they now beleive IN UNBELEIF . pretty scary huh
And yet this generation believes in THIS UNBELIEF , they see it as the LOVE OF GOD . pretty terrifying for them my friend .
WE cannot claim to BELEIVE and yet preach UNBELEIF or we never really TRULY DO BELEIVE .
Cant have it both ways . That is known only as THEY HAVE DECIEVED themselves .
 
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Marvelloustime

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Adhereing to a creed , but do they follow Christ .
Many can quoate a creed , just as i once could quoate the gospel .
However if that same person turns and contradicts THE ONE WHO saved us
by praticing wicked things , as i once could , THEN its naught but lip service .
Ecumenicism is now the snare that at the end of days has brought us unto its interfaith .
And it will grave every last one who partakes of its cup of love which has led them to The lie .
Did you know right now we have a very high number in christendom
which claim to BELEIVE the gospel and yet DO NOT BELEIVE the gospel .
How so you might be thinking .
THE gospel is very clear that ONE MUST BELEIVE IN the ressurection of CHRIST and confess HIM to BE SAVED .
And many have indeed cliamed this , ONLY TO TURN around and prove they DO NOT .
HOW so , THEY make claim all other religoins serve the same GOD we do
and are all headed to GOD differently . MEANING what , THEY DO NOT BELEIVE ONE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAV ED
and it has made their faith VOID as they now beleive IN UNBELEIF . pretty scary huh
And yet this generation believes in THIS UNBELIEF , they see it as the LOVE OF GOD . pretty terrifying for them my friend .
WE cannot claim to BELEIVE and yet preach UNBELEIF or we never really TRULY DO BELEIVE .
Cant have it both ways . That is known only as THEY HAVE DECIEVED themselves .
@amigo de christo
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Chrysostomos

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Hi C....
very interesting thread.

I agree with you so I don't have much to add except I'd like to say this:

In a more "simple" society I'd say that any amount of witnessing could be useful for directing a person toward God.

In today's environment, this cannot function well.
Why?
Because, as you've correctly noted, everyone is an expert and one field will not cross over well into the field of knowing God.
Science is the new god and science wants to imperically prove everything or it will not be accepted.

You are extremely intelligent and, at the very least, know about all these different fields of science...most not only know anything about them but don't even know they exist. (I know they exist, but don't know much about any of them).

So what to do?
I live in Italy. The CC is down in Rome. They don't even know how to catechize children anymore and I know this for a fact.
They just keep trying new methods - none of which work.

Just plainly witness as @Pearl suggested?
Kids today laugh at this.

First century persons were looking for new gods.
Today we have our gods already picked out....
no need for a new one.
I don’t claim to be an expert in all the disciplines we’ve discussed—physics, chemistry, philology, history, and so on. Frankly, it’s impossible for any ordinary person to master them all. Even more, it’s not enough to have a general education in these fields. To be taken seriously, you need to be a narrow specialist—say, a physicist specializing in quantum mechanics, a chemist focused on biochemistry, a philologist expert in ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek, or a historian dedicated to a specific era. No one can be a specialist in everything.

Moreover, simply having knowledge as a hobbyist—say, studying history or languages for personal interest—doesn’t carry weight in debates. Hobbyists may understand a subject deeply in their own eyes, but without a degree or formal credentials, their insights are often dismissed by others as non-authoritative. In a discussion, a critic might ask, “Do you have a degree in this field?” Even if you’re a philologist, they might press further: “Are you a specialist in ancient Hebrew or Greek? No? Then your opinion doesn’t count.” This dynamic makes many wonder, “Why bother learning all this if my knowledge lacks a diploma and is deemed non-credible?”

This is logical in a way. If you need medical advice, you’d question someone offering it without a medical degree—say, a philologist giving health tips. In today’s world, hyper-specialization means people are expected to speak only within their narrow expertise. So when a catechist, priest, or missionary speaks on physics, chemistry, history, or philology, critics naturally ask, “Are you a specialist in these fields?” The answer is almost always no—because no one can be an expert in everything.

This puts Christianity in a tough spot. Schoolteachers and university professors, often seen as authoritative specialists, may teach that life’s origins don’t involve God’s creation. Meanwhile, a priest with a seminary education or a missionary with a humanities background—like philology, law, or economics—lacks the “credentials” to counter these claims credibly in the eyes of skeptics. A student or adult might say, “Why listen to a priest or missionary who’s just a humanities grad when my professors, the ‘real experts,’ say otherwise?”

This hyper-specialized world has backed Christianity into a corner—a zugzwang, as we’ve discussed. In the first century, a fisherman or tax collector could be an apostle, and their lack of academic credentials didn’t undermine their message. Today, if you’re a regular worker—say, a crew member on a fishing boat or a tax inspector—people are less likely to take you seriously when you speak on science.

Yet Christianity isn’t primarily about academic expertise. In Jesus’ time, “teachers” like rabbis weren’t academic scholars but life guides, somewhat akin to “gurus” in other traditions (though that comparison isn’t perfect and might draw criticism). The Western world has largely lost this concept of a “teacher” as a wise guide, like a guru or shaman in other cultures. Instead, authority now hinges on academic degrees, narrow specializations, and formal titles. Priests today are more like the “scribes” of Jesus’ era—keepers of knowledge—rather than rabbis, gurus, or shamans who guide through lived wisdom.

So why don’t we see these kinds of “teachers” in Christianity anymore?
 
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amigo de christo

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I don’t claim to be an expert in all the disciplines we’ve discussed—physics, chemistry, philology, history, and so on. Frankly, it’s impossible for any ordinary person to master them all. Even more, it’s not enough to have a general education in these fields. To be taken seriously, you need to be a narrow specialist—say, a physicist specializing in quantum mechanics, a chemist focused on biochemistry, a philologist expert in ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek, or a historian dedicated to a specific era. No one can be a specialist in everything.

Moreover, simply having knowledge as a hobbyist—say, studying history or languages for personal interest—doesn’t carry weight in debates. Hobbyists may understand a subject deeply in their own eyes, but without a degree or formal credentials, their insights are often dismissed by others as non-authoritative. In a discussion, a critic might ask, “Do you have a degree in this field?” Even if you’re a philologist, they might press further: “Are you a specialist in ancient Hebrew or Greek? No? Then your opinion doesn’t count.” This dynamic makes many wonder, “Why bother learning all this if my knowledge lacks a diploma and is deemed non-credible?”

This is logical in a way. If you need medical advice, you’d question someone offering it without a medical degree—say, a philologist giving health tips. In today’s world, hyper-specialization means people are expected to speak only within their narrow expertise. So when a catechist, priest, or missionary speaks on physics, chemistry, history, or philology, critics naturally ask, “Are you a specialist in these fields?” The answer is almost always no—because no one can be an expert in everything.

This puts Christianity in a tough spot. Schoolteachers and university professors, often seen as authoritative specialists, may teach that life’s origins don’t involve God’s creation. Meanwhile, a priest with a seminary education or a missionary with a humanities background—like philology, law, or economics—lacks the “credentials” to counter these claims credibly in the eyes of skeptics. A student or adult might say, “Why listen to a priest or missionary who’s just a humanities grad when my professors, the ‘real experts,’ say otherwise?”

This hyper-specialized world has backed Christianity into a corner—a zugzwang, as we’ve discussed. In the first century, a fisherman or tax collector could be an apostle, and their lack of academic credentials didn’t undermine their message. Today, if you’re a regular worker—say, a crew member on a fishing boat or a tax inspector—people are less likely to take you seriously when you speak on science.

Yet Christianity isn’t primarily about academic expertise. In Jesus’ time, “teachers” like rabbis weren’t academic scholars but life guides, somewhat akin to “gurus” in other traditions (though that comparison isn’t perfect and might draw criticism). The Western world has largely lost this concept of a “teacher” as a wise guide, like a guru or shaman in other cultures. Instead, authority now hinges on academic degrees, narrow specializations, and formal titles. Priests today are more like the “scribes” of Jesus’ era—keepers of knowledge—rather than rabbis, gurus, or shamans who guide through lived wisdom.

So why don’t we see these kinds of “teachers” in Christianity anymore?
The dumb one highly angers the great and might men of carnal wisdom and sciences and chemistry
and etc . And it aint just cause i expose it either .
People can marvel indeed at wise answers and quick speed at how a man can figure out the simple .
Believe you me
i have highly angered great minds , or so called g reat minds anyway
at tables before who thought they were so darn intellectual .
IT pisses them off when the man they accuse of being the DUMB one
actually be a wee bit quicker at their own knowledge . OH that angers them the most .
You see when they think they talking to a dumby they might be tempted to feel perhaps some sorrow .
BUT WHEN SAID Dumby can do math quicker in ihs own mind than they
or answer their own t ext book answers , OH IT ANGERS THEM
cause same said man turns around and them MOCKS ALL THAT KNOWLEDGE
and says to them all , HEY i used to be just like ya
And now i shun all that crap to hades . now do understand that i dont actually say that
With such words . But when a man can show them how easy their bunk junk is
OH it angers them greatly . And yet that knowledge is dung doo doo to me .
That angers them too . I used to sit in classes
in college too . Now i was very prideful in them days as was my brother too .
And i still remember , to even this day , How the teacher had given us all , the whole class
Fifty college algebra problems and set us out to see who finished first and
Who had them all right as well . cause speed did matter , but if one was slower yet had more right answers
The teacher would call them the winner .
My brother finished first but only by mere seconds . And we sat around the room waiting , smiling and beaming
at one another like we were the big kahuna . WHAT A PRIDEFUL IDOIT i was .
YES i used to be big on science , big on such things . And learned v ery , very fast .
Guess what I SHUN THAT DUNG TO HADES . I LAUGH at it now . THANK GOD for his mercy and grace
which pulled me far from that DUNG as He put me into one book to learn for myself . SO how ya feel now
about me. You aint nearly as wise as you think my friend . Or perhaps i as slow as you would love to believe me to be .
AND YET I count all that wisdom as total dung doo doo . have fun with that . ITS BIBLE TIME .
 
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Chrysostomos

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Read it again my friend . And always remember to the greeks the preaching of Christ is foolishness
and unto the jews a stumbling b lock
but unto both beleiving jews and gentiles IT IS THE POWER of GOD unto salvation .
IN other words i dont worry about what folks think . I cannot Give the increase .
One ought only to preach Christ and worry not . Either one hears and receives and are saved or they forbear .
Folks worry way to much over that which is very simple .
The world WILL SEE the preaching of Christ as foolishness , but not the sheep , they will hear and believe .
Many worry about HOW to present CHRIST JESUS
but as for me i say SIMPLY SPEAK the TRUTH . GOD will add daily whom HE adds .
Speak the TRUTH .
For this cause came i into the world , for this reason
TO TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH and all who are of the TRUTH hear my voice . ITS real simple friend .
You’re right that preaching Christ is at the heart of our calling, and the Gospel’s power doesn’t depend on human approval—Paul made that clear in 1 Corinthians. But in a world where instant fact-checking and viral misinformation dominate, simply declaring the truth without addressing the barriers people face can backfire, turning potential seekers away before they even hear the message.

Consider this: Today, someone hearing about creation or miracles might immediately Google it and land on sources that frame Christianity as anti-science or outdated folklore. Without engaging those intellectual roadblocks—like how evolution or cosmology intersects with Genesis—they might dismiss the whole Gospel as “foolishness” not because of spiritual resistance, but because we didn’t meet them in their context. It’s not about worrying over presentation; it’s about removing stumbling blocks that weren’t there in the first century, when people sought gods amid superstition. Now, amid scientific materialism, ignoring these means handing critics free wins—they’ll say, “See, Christians avoid real questions because their faith can’t stand scrutiny.”
 

amigo de christo

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You’re right that preaching Christ is at the heart of our calling, and the Gospel’s power doesn’t depend on human approval—Paul made that clear in 1 Corinthians. But in a world where instant fact-checking and viral misinformation dominate, simply declaring the truth without addressing the barriers people face can backfire, turning potential seekers away before they even hear the message.

Consider this: Today, someone hearing about creation or miracles might immediately Google it and land on sources that frame Christianity as anti-science or outdated folklore. Without engaging those intellectual roadblocks—like how evolution or cosmology intersects with Genesis—they might dismiss the whole Gospel as “foolishness” not because of spiritual resistance, but because we didn’t meet them in their context. It’s not about worrying over presentation; it’s about removing stumbling blocks that weren’t there in the first century, when people sought gods amid superstition. Now, amid scientific materialism, ignoring these means handing critics free wins—they’ll say, “See, Christians avoid real questions because their faith can’t stand scrutiny.”
look at what you just wrote . they can TURN potential seekers away .
NOT SHEEP they cant . GOD adds WHOM GOD adds . Let us not worry over such things .
PREACH the TRUTH and the sheep will hear .
WE need only speak THE TRUTH .
Be encouraged my friend . But lets not waste on time on carnal wisdom and methods of men to
do . LETS TRUST IN GOD and HE WILL GIVE US WORDS to speak . HE WILL GIVE US WORDS to speak .
I say again GOD Will give us the words we ought to speak to any one .
I trust not in me , not in my own abilites , THE ONLY ONE I CAN T RUST IN IS GOD
and HE has said WORRY NOT what to say , I WILL give you a mouth . I T RUST HIM , we all NEED TO DO , is JUST TRUST HIM .
its truly beautiful my friend . Just trust in THE LORD . and let us be in the bible to learn as well .
 
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Chrysostomos

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The dumb one highly angers the great and might men of carnal wisdom and sciences and chemistry
and etc . And it aint just cause i expose it either .
People can marvel indeed at wise answers and quick speed at how a man can figure out the simple .
Believe you me
i have highly angered great minds , or so called g reat minds anyway
at tables before who thought they were so darn intellectual .
IT pisses them off when the man they accuse of being the DUMB one
actually be a wee bit quicker at their own knowledge . OH that angers them the most .
You see when they think they talking to a dumby they might be tempted to feel perhaps some sorrow .
BUT WHEN SAID Dumby can do math quicker in ihs own mind than they
or answer their own t ext book answers , OH IT ANGERS THEM
cause same said man turns around and them MOCKS ALL THAT KNOWLEDGE
and says to them all , HEY i used to be just like ya
And now i shun all that crap to hades . now do understand that i dont actually say that
With such words . But when a man can show them how easy their bunk junk is
OH it angers them greatly . And yet that knowledge is dung doo doo to me .
That angers them too . I used to sit in classes
in college too . Now i was very prideful in them days as was my brother too .
And i still remember , to even this day , How the teacher had given us all , the whole class
Fifty college algebra problems and set us out to see who finished first and
Who had them all right as well . cause speed did matter , but if one was slower yet had more right answers
The teacher would call them the winner .
My brother finished first but only by mere seconds . And we sat around the room waiting , smiling and beaming
at one another like we were the big kahuna . WHAT A PRIDEFUL IDOIT i was .
YES i used to be big on science , big on such things . And learned v ery , very fast .
Guess what I SHUN THAT DUNG TO HADES . I LAUGH at it now . THANK GOD for his mercy and grace
which pulled me far from that DUNG as He put me into one book to learn for myself . SO how ya feel now
about me. You aint nearly as wise as you think my friend . Or perhaps i as slow as you would love to believe me to be .
AND YET I count all that wisdom as total dung doo doo . have fun with that . ITS BIBLE TIME .
With all due respect, I think you’re going too far when you dismiss the knowledge gained in college as “dung” and set it against the Bible, as if only Scripture matters. It’s shortsighted to reject the value of education that equips us with skills to earn a living, support our families, and contribute to society. Those studies—whether math, science, or history—aren’t inherently opposed to faith; they’re tools God gives us to navigate the world.

In Christian history, particularly in Orthodoxy, some have chosen the radical path of asceticism, like the hermits of Mount Athos who lived in caves, praying the Jesus Prayer and embodying Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 2:2: “I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” These monastics renounced worldly knowledge for a life of solitude and devotion. If that’s the path you’re advocating—a total rejection of worldly learning for a hermit-like focus on Christ—I respect your conviction and won’t try to dissuade you.

But most Christians live in the world, not as monks or hermits. For them, dismissing education as worthless leaves them vulnerable to critics who, as we’ve discussed, use specialized knowledge to challenge faith. In today’s skeptical culture, ignoring these tools risks making the Gospel seem irrelevant to those who value reason.
 
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Chrysostomos

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look at what you just wrote . they can TURN potential seekers away .
NOT SHEEP they cant . GOD adds WHOM GOD adds . Let us not worry over such things .
PREACH the TRUTH and the sheep will hear .
WE need only speak THE TRUTH .
Be encouraged my friend . But lets not waste on time on carnal wisdom and methods of men to
do . LETS TRUST IN GOD and HE WILL GIVE US WORDS to speak . HE WILL GIVE US WORDS to speak .
I say again GOD Will give us the words we ought to speak to any one .
I trust not in me , not in my own abilites , THE ONLY ONE I CAN T RUST IN IS GOD
and HE has said WORRY NOT what to say , I WILL give you a mouth . I T RUST HIM , we all NEED TO DO , is JUST TRUST HIM .
its truly beautiful my friend . Just trust in THE LORD . and let us be in the bible to learn as well .
We live in a society where we can’t ignore the opinions of those around us. Friends, colleagues, and neighbors constantly ask, “Why do you still call yourself a Christian and believe the Bible when scientists say...?”—whether it’s about the Big Bang, evolution, or the age of the Earth.

There are two paths forward:

(1) Respond by presenting alternative scientific perspectives, like those from Christian scholars in cosmology or biology. But that demands being a walking Wikipedia, mastering every field we’ve discussed, which, as we’ve seen, is impossible for most.

Or (2) adopt a Dostoevsky-like stance and declare, “I believe because it’s absurd!”
By the way, Fyodor Dostoevsky, the great Russian writer, lived at the height of the “scientific atheism” era in the 19th century, bombarded with the same questions about evolution and creation. It frustrated him so much that he eventually exclaimed something akin to that—echoing Tertullian’s ancient paradox of faith in the impossible. So, are you suggesting we follow Dostoevsky’s lead and embrace the absurdity as our defense? While that captures the mystery of faith, it risks confirming critics’ narrative that Christianity is irrational, pushing away those who crave both heart and mind in their search for truth. What’s your take on navigating that tension in real conversations?
 
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GodsGrace

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I don’t claim to be an expert in all the disciplines we’ve discussed—physics, chemistry, philology, history, and so on. Frankly, it’s impossible for any ordinary person to master them all.
LOL
Yes sir.
You'd replace Einstein, that's for sure!

Even more, it’s not enough to have a general education in these fields. To be taken seriously, you need to be a narrow specialist—say, a physicist specializing in quantum mechanics, a chemist focused on biochemistry, a philologist expert in ancient Hebrew or Koine Greek, or a historian dedicated to a specific era. No one can be a specialist in everything.
Yes. We've come to this.
And it's OK.
It's just that scientists used to believe in God and now they don't anymore.
Galileo and Newton attributed action to God and gave to Him the credit due.

Now we have scientists declaring that God is not necessary.
Reminds me of the joke about the dirt...
Moreover, simply having knowledge as a hobbyist—say, studying history or languages for personal interest—doesn’t carry weight in debates. Hobbyists may understand a subject deeply in their own eyes, but without a degree or formal credentials, their insights are often dismissed by others as non-authoritative. In a discussion, a critic might ask, “Do you have a degree in this field?” Even if you’re a philologist, they might press further: “Are you a specialist in ancient Hebrew or Greek? No? Then your opinion doesn’t count.” This dynamic makes many wonder, “Why bother learning all this if my knowledge lacks a diploma and is deemed non-credible?”
John Lennox, who knows about everything, has many times stated that his doctorate is not in a specific field - all scientists acknowledge your above statement.
How have we gotten to this point indeed.
Maybe there's just too much to know about everything.
This is logical in a way. If you need medical advice, you’d question someone offering it without a medical degree—say, a philologist giving health tips. In today’s world, hyper-specialization means people are expected to speak only within their narrow expertise. So when a catechist, priest, or missionary speaks on physics, chemistry, history, or philology, critics naturally ask, “Are you a specialist in these fields?” The answer is almost always no—because no one can be an expert in everything.
Been a catechist.
Between the 5th grade and 7th grade most children become atheist.
Sad but true.
So I ask....If God did not create everything, what did?
Reply: Science!
Science. Goes to show how little they know, and yet science sounds so much better than: GOD.
So we get to the BB.
OK.
So where did the gases/material come from that exploded?
No clue.

But anything is better than God.
And yes, some VERY rudimentary knowledge of science is required if we're going to speak to these kids these days.
This puts Christianity in a tough spot. Schoolteachers and university professors, often seen as authoritative specialists, may teach that life’s origins don’t involve God’s creation. Meanwhile, a priest with a seminary education or a missionary with a humanities background—like philology, law, or economics—lacks the “credentials” to counter these claims credibly in the eyes of skeptics. A student or adult might say, “Why listen to a priest or missionary who’s just a humanities grad when my professors, the ‘real experts,’ say otherwise?”
Yes sir.
It's exactly as you state.
A priest has to take 2 years of philosophy (they might be changing it to 3 -like it'll make any difference)
and all the theology...
but it's seen as being of little value in today's world.
This hyper-specialized world has backed Christianity into a corner—a zugzwang, as we’ve discussed. In the first century, a fisherman or tax collector could be an apostle, and their lack of academic credentials didn’t undermine their message. Today, if you’re a regular worker—say, a crew member on a fishing boat or a tax inspector—people are less likely to take you seriously when you speak on science.

Yet Christianity isn’t primarily about academic expertise. In Jesus’ time, “teachers” like rabbis weren’t academic scholars but life guides, somewhat akin to “gurus” in other traditions (though that comparison isn’t perfect and might draw criticism).
It's absolutely correct.
The Western world has largely lost this concept of a “teacher” as a wise guide, like a guru or shaman in other cultures. Instead, authority now hinges on academic degrees, narrow specializations, and formal titles. Priests today are more like the “scribes” of Jesus’ era—keepers of knowledge—rather than rabbis, gurus, or shamans who guide through lived wisdom.

So why don’t we see these kinds of “teachers” in Christianity anymore?
You're hitting on my favorite subject matter.
But you've answered your own question.
Priests are not scientists.
Science reigns supreme.

Kids feel that they have to choose between science or religion (what we would call faith).
This is false, of course. I used to tell my kids there is no choice - it is 2 totally different ideas...not to be conflated with each other.

I think part of the problem is that priests don't always go into their calling in order to draw believers but only to answer to their personal calling.
There are VERY FEW that are capable of teaching....let alone teach children, and it's these that must be "won over". Not even won over to GOD....but at least won over to the idea that God EXISTS.

The parents come into play.
The culture.

Christianity has a real problem on its hands, IMHO.

And what was the church doing when culture was going ultra liberal and anti-Christian?
Nothing.
So here we are with no plan in sight.

Why do YOU think these teachers are missing?
How about the idea that the young don't even respect the opinions of those older that should know more.
Technology? This has a role too.
 
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GodsGrace

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@Chrysostomos

I just realized that the following is not what I meant to say:

John Lennox, who knows about everything, has many times stated that his doctorate is not in a specific field - all scientists acknowledge your above statement.

John Lennox has a PhD in Mathematics AND Theology.
What I meant is that he'll make the remark that he does not have a degree in a DIFFERENT field that might be under discussion at any given time.
 
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Chrysostomos

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LOL
Yes sir.
You'd replace Einstein, that's for sure!
You’re flattering me! I’m just an ordinary person trying to make sense of these complex issues like everyone else.
Yes. We've come to this.
And it's OK.
It's just that scientists used to believe in God and now they don't anymore.
Galileo and Newton attributed action to God and gave to Him the credit due.

Now we have scientists declaring that God is not necessary.
Reminds me of the joke about the dirt...
You hit the nail on the head! Today’s world has set up a game where you’re only considered authoritative if you’re speaking strictly within your narrow specialty. It’s as if people assume you can’t know anything outside your specific field. If you’re a fisherman, just fish. If you’re a factory worker, just turn wrenches. Work, consume, and stay quiet about anything you’re not a certified expert in.

I’ve experienced this firsthand. When discussing Christian faith or the Bible, I’ve had people ask, “Are you a priest? No? Then why are you talking like you know something about it?” In their minds, only a credentialed theologian or ordained clergy has the right to speak on faith. It’s wild to think that in this climate, someone like the Apostle Peter—a fisherman—wouldn’t be taken seriously. They’d probably demand, “Where’s your theology degree, Peter?” This obsession with credentials boxes Christianity into a corner.
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Been a catechist.
Between the 5th grade and 7th grade most children become atheist.
Sad but true.
So I ask....If God did not create everything, what did?
Reply: Science!
Science. Goes to show how little they know, and yet science sounds so much better than: GOD.
So we get to the BB.
OK.
So where did the gases/material come from that exploded?
No clue.

But anything is better than God.
And yes, some VERY rudimentary knowledge of science is required if we're going to speak to these kids these days.
Here’s the catch: Christianity shouldn’t be taught as just another academic subject, competing with physics or biology. It’s about a relationship with God, not a science textbook. But skeptics have forced this false dichotomy between faith and science, and we’ve been backed into defending it on their terms. This started in the 19th century with figures like Thomas Huxley, Darwin’s “bulldog,” who championed evolution to challenge biblical creation accounts without directly insulting Christianity, so as not to alienate his audience. He, along with John Draper and Andrew White, pushed the “conflict thesis”—the idea that science and religion are inherently at odds. Their strategy wasn’t to attack faith head-on but to frame science (like evolution) as disproving the Bible’s authority, making Christianity seem outdated to the educated.

Yes sir.
It's exactly as you state.
A priest has to take 2 years of philosophy (they might be changing it to 3 -like it'll make any difference)
and all the theology...
but it's seen as being of little value in today's world.
Exactly! Today, many won’t even listen once they hear you’ve got a humanities degree. They’ll straight-up say, “You’re just a humanities guy, what’s there to talk about?”
 
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GodsGrace

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You’re flattering me! I’m just an ordinary person trying to make sense of these complex issues like everyone else.

You hit the nail on the head! Today’s world has set up a game where you’re only considered authoritative if you’re speaking strictly within your narrow specialty. It’s as if people assume you can’t know anything outside your specific field. If you’re a fisherman, just fish. If you’re a factory worker, just turn wrenches. Work, consume, and stay quiet about anything you’re not a certified expert in.

I’ve experienced this firsthand. When discussing Christian faith or the Bible, I’ve had people ask, “Are you a priest? No? Then why are you talking like you know something about it?” In their minds, only a credentialed theologian or ordained clergy has the right to speak on faith. It’s wild to think that in this climate, someone like the Apostle Peter—a fisherman—wouldn’t be taken seriously. They’d probably demand, “Where’s your theology degree, Peter?” This obsession with credentials boxes Christianity into a corner.
View attachment 72350

Here’s the catch: Christianity shouldn’t be taught as just another academic subject, competing with physics or biology. It’s about a relationship with God, not a science textbook. But skeptics have forced this false dichotomy between faith and science, and we’ve been backed into defending it on their terms. This started in the 19th century with figures like Thomas Huxley, Darwin’s “bulldog,” who championed evolution to challenge biblical creation accounts without directly insulting Christianity, so as not to alienate his audience. He, along with John Draper and Andrew White, pushed the “conflict thesis”—the idea that science and religion are inherently at odds. Their strategy wasn’t to attack faith head-on but to frame science (like evolution) as disproving the Bible’s authority, making Christianity seem outdated to the educated.


Exactly! Today, many won’t even listen once they hear you’ve got a humanities degree. They’ll straight-up say, “You’re just a humanities guy, what’s there to talk about?”
Agreed on all.
I did mention that some believe they must decide between God and science.
And yes, it's not just another SUBJECT matter....
but you have to get some theology in there too...it must be added or the kids won't have any answer when confronted in later years (regarding God not being real - or asked to explain why they believe).

Yes sir.
Big problem.
I don't see any of the denominations arriving at any solution.
The New Atheists have ruined 2 generations....
And the churches have allowed it.
 
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Chrysostomos

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You're hitting on my favorite subject matter.
But you've answered your own question.
Priests are not scientists.
Science reigns supreme.

Kids feel that they have to choose between science or religion (what we would call faith).
This is false, of course. I used to tell my kids there is no choice - it is 2 totally different ideas...not to be conflated with each other.

I think part of the problem is that priests don't always go into their calling in order to draw believers but only to answer to their personal calling.
There are VERY FEW that are capable of teaching....let alone teach children, and it's these that must be "won over". Not even won over to GOD....but at least won over to the idea that God EXISTS.

The parents come into play.
The culture.

Christianity has a real problem on its hands, IMHO.

And what was the church doing when culture was going ultra liberal and anti-Christian?
Nothing.
So here we are with no plan in sight.

Why do YOU think these teachers are missing?
How about the idea that the young don't even respect the opinions of those older that should know more.
Technology? This has a role too.
We've largely lost the institution of "life teachers"—wise guides who impart spiritual and existential wisdom beyond academics or jobs. In Jesus' time, He was called "Rabbi," meaning a teacher of life, not just a religious scholar like today's rabbis. In pagan traditions, this role survives as gurus or shamans, who connect people to the spiritual realm.

In the modern West, scientists have filled that void, shaping society around production, consumption, and pure materialism. God-talk mostly happens in debates between evolutionists and creationists, framing faith as a scientific dispute rather than a profound mystery. As a result, youth see nothing spiritual—just grounded, materialistic adults chasing survival. The world changes so fast that elders can't teach much.

There's no equivalent to shamans, gurus, or true rabbis among the older generation—they're blind to anything "priestly" or spiritual. Even priests often discuss Christianity like they're cramming for seminary exams, not embodying sacred rites. It's hard to explain what "priestly matters" mean: it's that intuitive, mystical guidance that transcends logic, like a shaman's rituals or a guru's enlightenment path. Without it, Christianity feels sterile.
 
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GodsGrace

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We've largely lost the institution of "life teachers"—wise guides who impart spiritual and existential wisdom beyond academics or jobs. In Jesus' time, He was called "Rabbi," meaning a teacher of life, not just a religious scholar like today's rabbis. In pagan traditions, this role survives as gurus or shamans, who connect people to the spiritual realm.

In the modern West, scientists have filled that void, shaping society around production, consumption, and pure materialism. God-talk mostly happens in debates between evolutionists and creationists, framing faith as a scientific dispute rather than a profound mystery. As a result, youth see nothing spiritual—just grounded, materialistic adults chasing survival. The world changes so fast that elders can't teach much.

There's no equivalent to shamans, gurus, or true rabbis among the older generation—they're blind to anything "priestly" or spiritual. Even priests often discuss Christianity like they're cramming for seminary exams, not embodying sacred rites. It's hard to explain what "priestly matters" mean: it's that intuitive, mystical guidance that transcends logic, like a shaman's rituals or a guru's enlightenment path. Without it, Christianity feels sterile.
I agree.
And will also say that there is more "spirituality" in the Orthodox than in Catholicism.
But is THAT even doing any good?
Maybe we need to get closer to the bottom in order to see God again.
 
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amigo de christo

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I agree.
And will also say that there is more "spirituality" in the Orthodox than in Catholicism.
But is THAT even doing any good?
Maybe we need to get closer to the bottom in order to see God again.
Reader and all there is a real simple solution and if one does this and would do this
in quick time things would become clear .
Its known as opening and reading the bible for oneself .
When we do and we see those examples every day
and see how they did things and how they approached sin and error
and see how adamant they were about PREACHING JESUS and THE DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON him OR PERISH
we will soon see something .
OH DEAR satan can say GOD IS LOVE and our preachers , bishops , deacons and many within christendom
are under HIS spell of what he calls love and claims is of GOD .
DO the test . Read with a passion for the truth and that we learn and grow .
Open the pages of the bible again and let all begin with renewed focus upon THOSE words left to us .
YOU SEE what would have occured . But if we continue to heed men
that in any way , shape , form or fashion try and make it seem as though
one cannot truly learn the scrips , LEST They sit under them , their greek , their hermes their etc
THEN DECIEVED this people shall remain .
IT IS NOT A SIN to read the bible for oneself .
IT is not dangerous to open and to read the lovely words of truth for oneself .
ITS DANGEROUS NOT TOO . men be fleecing this people and they know how to twist
what LITTLE scriptures they even bring unto this people .
 

Chrysostomos

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I agree.
And will also say that there is more "spirituality" in the Orthodox than in Catholicism.
But is THAT even doing any good?
Maybe we need to get closer to the bottom in order to see God again.
It’s not so clear-cut. Orthodoxy does emphasize mysticism more, largely through its focus on monasticism—monasteries, sketes, and hermits.
Asceticism and solitude are uniquely highlighted in this tradition.

However, Orthodoxy also has “white clergy”—married priests who live in the world, balancing family and ministry.

By the way, the Catholic Church has had debates about allowing priests to marry, like at the 2019 Amazon Synod, to address shortages. Critics, like Cardinal Müller, argued this would make Catholic priests too much like Orthodox white clergy—overly “worldly” and distracted by family concerns. Catholicism’s celibate priesthood, by contrast, emphasizes total dedication.

In any case, regardless of denomination, everything now often boils down to academic knowledge. We’re left with just scribes and Pharisees—book-smart experts—but no rabbis, gurus, or shamans. The very concept of a wise, spiritual life-guide has vanished from our culture.
 
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amigo de christo

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I agree.
And will also say that there is more "spirituality" in the Orthodox than in Catholicism.
But is THAT even doing any good?
Maybe we need to get closer to the bottom in order to see God again.
The ONE and ONLY
i say again the ONE AND ONLY GOD ALL MIGHTY FATHER OF OUR LORD and SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST
has many WORDS HE INSPIRED in that bible . By which if a man love and learn HE will indeed
grow wise unto salvation through FAITH IN THIS JESUS THE CHRIST .
For many now preach faith in unbelief and hold onto a love they beleive is of GOD
and yet it be of the world and the darkness and has made very , very broad and all inclusive
the WAY to what THEY BELEIVE IS GOD , but its love has DENEID THE ONLY WAY TO GOD .
And it has offered them up a delusion that it calls love
and that many now grab ahold of this inclusive love with both hands .
But they know not it leadeth only to the second death .
 

amigo de christo

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It’s not so clear-cut. Orthodoxy does emphasize mysticism more, largely through its focus on monasticism—monasteries, sketes, and hermits.
Asceticism and solitude are uniquely highlighted in this tradition.

However, Orthodoxy also has “white clergy”—married priests who live in the world, balancing family and ministry.

By the way, the Catholic Church has had debates about allowing priests to marry, like at the 2019 Amazon Synod, to address shortages. Critics, like Cardinal Müller, argued this would make Catholic priests too much like Orthodox white clergy—overly “worldly” and distracted by family concerns. Catholicism’s celibate priesthood, by contrast, emphasizes total dedication.

In any case, regardless of denomination, everything now often boils down to academic knowledge. We’re left with just scribes and Pharisees—book-smart experts—but no rabbis, gurus, or shamans. The very concept of a wise, spiritual life-guide has vanished from our culture.
There is , however , one thing that is VERY CLEAR CUT .
We got more wolves in wool in all denominations to include , YES the greek orthodoxy and all places
than i can count .
ITS real clear cut they pratice and hold TO a few truths and yet THEY themselves KNOW NOT THE TRUTH
as they clearly twist the scrips and take off to heed the very words OF ALL of what JESUS said and taught
as well as the apostels . NOW THAT IS VERY CLEAR CUT . and its quite clear
ITS TIME for this generation to bible up for themselves and for to learn for themselves
the very thing that many no longer Teach or know . THE TRUTH .
 

Brakelite

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i dont need to learn of man to be able to witness of GOD , of HIS CHRIST .
what a modern christain needs to understand
Is what the apostels and every true sheep throughout all ages has come to understand .
THAT WE NEED GOD , HIS CHRIST , THE SUPPLY OF HIS SPIRIT . And get INTO that BIBLE to learn .
GOD is with the sheep .
AND BELIEVE ME , HE ALREADY KNOWS what one needs to hear .
Preach JESUS THE CHRIST , foolishness to the wise greeks
a stumbling block to the unbelieving jews
BUT THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION unto those who believe.
I dont need to know science to witness to one in science
any more than i need to learn about buddism to witness to a buddist
or ISLAM to witness to a muslim .
ALL I NEED IS GOD , HIS CHRIST and he will give me words to speak . whether they hear or whether they forbear .
Amen bro. I was going to say exactly the same thing. It isn't our work to defend our faith through worldly pursuits of science and learning. Or work is to preach the love of God in Christ and Him crucified. The gospel.