You aren't being fair with me.
You asked for proof and I am providing it.
I have lots more.
You have yet to convince me.
You claimed you could answer any proof.
So far you are doing poorly.
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What does God's character tell us about the Bible?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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You asked for proof and I am providing it.
I have lots more.
You have yet to convince me.
You claimed you could answer any proof.
So far you are doing poorly.
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Does the Scripture say a man can be made alive without repenting and believing in Christ?
You have to believe in a second chance for salvation after death for that.
Show me that. It takes a little common sense, Steven.
Everyone will be resurrected from the dead to final judgment.
Nothing is left to chance.
Plus, countless billions never had what you would call a "first chance".
You are familiar with the term "unreached people groups", correct?
Joshua Project - Reaching the Unreached | Joshua Project
Joshua Project is a research initiative seeking to identify the ethnic people groups of the world with the fewest followers of Jesus. Join us in reaching the unreached.
joshuaproject.net
1 Corinthians 15:22 explained by Public Hermit
This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.
If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.
The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.
Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.
But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).
Therefore, all means all in both instances.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
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Everyone will be resurrected from the dead to final judgment.
Nothing is left to chance.
Plus, countless billions never had what you would call a "first chance".
You are familiar with the term "unreached people groups", correct?
Joshua Project - Reaching the Unreached | Joshua Project
Joshua Project is a research initiative seeking to identify the ethnic people groups of the world with the fewest followers of Jesus. Join us in reaching the unreached.
1 Corinthians 15:22 explained by Public Hermit
This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.
If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.
The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.
Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.
But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).
Therefore, all means all in both instances.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
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No, Steven, Paul said the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Titus 2:11
No man will have an excuse and there is no second chance after death, " now is the accepted time, today is the day of salvation" 2 Cor. 6:2
Is that true? (as you define it) Scripture below.
All men weren't even alive then.
You better inform the fine folks at Joshua Project. (unreached people groups)
Matthew 24:14 NIV
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world
as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Based on Romans one?
Where is the gospel message in creation?
Is recognizing a creator equal to salvation?
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Paul said man has no excuse, man has a conscience that gives him a sense of right and wrong.
Before Christ the Hebrews had the Law, the author of Hebrews tells us they, under the Law, had the Gospel just as well as we.
Before the Law the only men that had the gospel were those who knew what the animal sacrifice meant.
Cain is the first example in Scripture of understanding the animal sacrifice represented the Coming Messiah, The Lamb of God.
The Gentiles outside of this knowledge had a conscience and creation itself to recognize God.
Rahab the harlot in Jericho was an example of having no knowledge of Christ or of God himself, but when she heard of what happened in Egypt and the Hebrews were freed from bondage, she recognized the only true God in heart.
So what did the all knowing God do? He sent spies from the Hebrews to spy the land, and sent them directly to Rahab's house.
She confirmed to the spies she knew their God was the only God and begged for her life and her family.
The spies told her to place a scarlet thread outside her window and when they came to take the city they would spare her and all that were in her house.
The scarlet thread represented the Blood of Christ saving her both physically and spiritually.
God has never passed over anyone in history who he knew would believe in Him.
That scripture actually supports UR. - LOL
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
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Glad you brought that up. (conscience)
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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My goodness, Steven, it's like I'm under machinegun fire here with all these posts. This is ridiculous!
I remember from the past years ago it was like this.
You declared war. What did you expect? - LOL
It seems clear that your claim that I am unprepared to defend my position is false.
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In those days with no knowledge of Christ especially among the Gentiles, the conscience pointed to God just as the Law pointed to Christ.
Just as man under the Law, if he were honest with himself needed no one to tell him he couldn't keep the Law. If he were honest with himself he knew he was a sinner and the Sacrificial System in the Law was where Christ was found.
The same applies to the man who had nothing but creation and his conscience to recognize God. If he were honest with himself his conscience told him what was right and wrong. But if he ignored his conscience and creation that presented a Creator, that is equal to rejecting God, the man who was honest and recognized the Creator with just that small amount of knowledge was accepted by God.
Now whether God sent someone to these primitive people, as He did in Rahab's case, or if He accepted and justified that person on those principles in those days is very much in debate.
That point seems to have been lost on the Jews of Jesus' day.
And Jesus didn't direct them back to it. How come?
The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament
"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul. It began with the forerunner, John...
www.christianityboard.com
Doesn't that arrangement fall outside of your evangelical claims about what is necessary for salvation?
Where is Jesus in that equation?
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Where was Jesus for three days before the resurrection?
(if it happened before, it can happen again)
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?
Answer: the realm of the dead
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.
Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
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Do you know how many times Jesus warned us of THE EVERLASTING fire? I doubt you even know. You still haven't told us who your god is.
Christ is hidden in the Old Testament in types and shadows. He was revealed in the flesh with the New Testament.
The commandment to believe in Christ came after Christ was revealed in the flesh.
Before that, as I have already explained, the Law had the Gospel in the Sacrificial System with the animal sacrifice representing the coming Christ as the Slain Lamb of God.
Before the Law the Gentiles had no Gospel, even though the Gospel goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve sinned God provided for them coats of skin, those animals died, shedding their blood for a covering for Adam and Eve. This represents the coming Messiah offering Himself as the sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
And yes, by the time Jesus came the Jews had lost all sight of what the animal sacrifice meant. John the Baptist introduced Him as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, but very few knew what it meant by that time.
Christ made no effort to show Himself as the Lamb of God to the people, if they didn't believe His miracles and the power of His preaching, they certainly would not believe He was the Messiah through telling them He was the Lamb of God.
That seems to be lost on you as well.
Did Jesus take away the sin of the world? (yes)
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