Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

[St. SteVen]

Saw this quote on another topic.

I don't see it in any of Paul's speeches recorded in Acts, nor in any of his letters.

Link: Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber?
See post #20

Which begs the question:
Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

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[ScottA]

Saw this quote on another topic.

Link: Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber?
See post #20

Which begs the question:
Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

[

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

 

[soberxp]

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Is it possible that this burning is burning evil within them, forever, because they can't control themselves.

 

[St. SteVen]

Is it possible that this burning is burning evil within them, forever, because they can't control themselves.

Yes, burning the evil. (wood, hay and stubble)
Even believers will undergo that judgment.

Let's look at the near context. Scripture below.
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of God,
So, they will be punished for all eternity? That can't right.

I think "everlasting destruction" is a reference to the quality of the destruction not the duration.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
He will punish those who do not know God
and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction
and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be
marveled at among all those who have believed.
This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

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[St. SteVen]

Kolasis - William Barclay

The word for punishment is kolasis. The word was originally a gardening word, and its original meaning was pruning trees. In Greek there are two words for punishment, timoria and kolasis, and there is a quite definite distinction between them. Aristotle defines the difference; kolasis is for the sake of the one who suffers it; timoria is for the sake of the one who inflicts it. Plato says that no one punishes (kolazei) simply because he has done wrong - that would be to take unreasonable vengeance (timoreitai). We punish (kolazei) a wrong-doer in order that he may not do wrong again (Protagoras 323 E). Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil. Aulus Gellius says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated (The Attic Nights7.14). The difference is quite clear in Greek and it is always observed. Timoria is retributive punishment. Kolasis is always given to amend and to cure.

“The word aionios is difficult to translate. It is used in the Old Testament* to describe Israel’s possession of the holy land (Genesis 17.8; 48.4); Aaron’s priesthood (Numbers 25,13); regulations about blood in the sacrifices and about the day of atonement (Leviticus 3.17; 16.34); great mountains and hills (Habakkuk 3.6). Now aion literally means an age, and aionios is literally age-long. In all the cases we have quoted the translation is everlasting or for ever, but in every case the thing described is a human thing, and will sometime come to an end. In every case aionios means lasting for a very long time; it can even mean lasting as long as the present world lasts; but it does not mean lasting for ever and ever throughout eternity.

“The Greek usage of aionios is even more suggestive. Plato in the Laws (10.12) says that body and soul are indestructible (anolethron), but they are not eternal (aionios) like the gods. In the Timaeus he says that time as we know it in this world is formed on the model of the nature which is aionios, eternal. The fact is that in Greek aionios can properly only describe that which is divine; in the true sense of the term only God is aionios. Aionios kolasis is therefore the disciplinary punishment, designed for the cure of men, which may last throughout many ages, and which only God can give.

“I can therefore be seen that the phrase in Matthew 25.46 does not commit us to a doctrine of eternal punishment in the sense in which it is usually taken. It may well describe a disciplinary, curative punishment, and it certainly describes the punishment which only God can inflict.”

~William Barclay, The Apostle's Creed, pg 189-190


Proof of Universalism in the early church.

It is quite in vain, then, that some–indeed very many–yield to merely human feelings and deplore the notion of the eternal punishment of the damned and their interminable and perpetual misery. They do not believe that such things will be. Not that they would go counter to divine Scripture—but, yielding to their own human feelings, they soften what seems harsh and give a milder emphasis to statements they believe are meant more to terrify than to express literal truth.

— Augustine, Enchiridion, sec. 112.

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[Behold]

Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

Yes.
Paul understood that John 3:36 is not a Myth.

Also...One of the reasons that Paul worked harder and did more then all the other apostles combined, is because of the way he previously had abused Christianity before his conversion, and also it was his understanding of the eternal destination of a person who was not saved before they died.
= You can't be born again in Hell.

JUDE is another of the Apostles who was very cognizant of eternal damnation, and that Hell once gained by Christ rejection on earth, was eternal.
HELL and the LAKE of FIRE are the eternal life of a Christ Rejector, who died never forgiven and never born again.

Satan's ministers offer you a different Gospel then Pauls... ...they have many to offer.

Here are 4 of Satan's finest gospels.... and there are many more....

One is:"water washes away your sin".. (Water Baptism)

One is : "There are many paths to God"

One is : "Islam"

One is "UNIVERSALISM">.......as this "doctrine of devils" teaches that Hell isn't real, and that you dont have to become a Christian before you die... = you dont have to be forgiven and born again.. before you die, and you still quality for Heaven.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes.
Paul understood that John 3:36 is not a Myth.
One of the reasons that Paul worked harder and did more then all the other apostles combined, is because of the way he previously had abused Christianity before his conversion, and also it was his understanding of the eternal destination of a person who was not saved before they died.

JUDE is another of the Apostles who was very cognizant of damnation, and that Hell once gained by Christ rejection on earth, was eternal.

Can you quote Paul's writing?

It seems that the those Jude described were in a very different situation than a forever burning hell. (wandering stars)

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[Behold]

Can you quote Paul's writing?

I quote it constantly.

It seems that the those Jude described were in a very different situation than a forever burning hell.

JUDE teaches that these people, (unsaved sinners) are being plucked out of the very fire of Hell.
WHat He means is.. is that when a Real Christians leads a sinner to Salvation, then they've led them out of Damnation.

This is Damnation......John 3:36.........and that is on all unbelievers.........so, they are Hell bound, and dont realize they are in Damnation.
So, when a Real Christian leads then to Christ, they are being SAVED from "God's wrath" that was their damnation they were under.
This is to lead them out of Hell as Jude explains.

Have you ever heard this phrase?

"JESUS Saves"..

He SAVED the Believers from John 3:36.........He saves the Believers from Eternal Damnation........Jesus SAVES the Believers from going to Hell.

Welcome to : Salvation, its not just Heaven gained, its damnation (Hell) removed. (escaped).


"but behold, i dont want a God that is a Judge and a Jury in Eternity, i want a Santa Claus who just ignores sin and invites us all in like the Cross rejecting Heretics teach"..

A.) that is not the Living God.

 

[St. SteVen]

JUDE teaches that these people, (unsaved sinners) are being plucked out of the very fire of Hell.

It says no such thing!

You seem to be very concerned about what you consider falsehood on my part,
but completely unconcerned about the daily falsehood on your part.

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[Behold]

It says no such thing!

JUDE's verse...
-

​

""""SAVE OTHERS by snatching the out of the FIRE.... to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. New Living Translation RESCUE OTHERS by = snatching them from = the FLAMES OF JUDGMENT. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives. English Standard Version SAVE others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh. Berean Standard Bible SAVE others by snatching them from the fire; and to still others show mercy tempered with fear, hating even the clothing stained by the flesh. New American Standard Bible SAVE others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. NASB 1995 SAVE others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. NASB 1977 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. Legacy Standard Bible and for others, save, snatching them out of the fire; and on others have mercy with fear, hating even the tunic polluted by the flesh. Amplified Bible SAVE OTHERS, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

 

[Jack]

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
He will punish those who do not know God
and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction
and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be
marveled at among all those who have believed.
This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Everlasting! A process that never ends.

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

 

[ScottA]

Is it possible that this burning is burning evil within them, forever, because they can't control themselves.

The context is not a personal one, but of different groups of people. In other words, no, Paul was not referring to those he was speaking to, whether in the flesh or in the spirit (as perhaps "one taken and one left behind"), but referred to other different people entirely.

 

[St. SteVen]

JUDE's verse...

I was referring to the wandering stars verse.
Very different than a forever burning hell. (as I said)
See post #7.

Jude 1:13 NIV
They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars,
for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

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[soberxp]

The context is not a personal one, but of different groups of people. In other words, no, Paul was not referring to those he was speaking to, whether in the flesh or in the spirit (as perhaps "one taken and one left behind"), but referred to other different people entirely.

"one taken and one left behind"
I thought it means the same person,
Soul taken and flesh left behind.

It's not average to take one and leave the other. That's not fair enough.

 

[Behold]

I was referring to the wandering stars verse.

I posted Jude's verse about saving people from Hell.

This......"

"""""RESCUE OTHERS by = snatching them from = the FLAMES OF JUDGMENT."""""

This is to lead someone to Christ so they can be forgiven and born again before they die.... and escape the "flames of Judgement" that is waiting for everyone who died as a John 3:36

They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars,
for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Your posted verse is a metaphor found in NT scripture.

"blackest darkness" refers to being eternally separated from God who "exists in LIGHT".... This is the "2nd Death".....This is eternal damnation found in the "lake of fire".
Its for the Rev 20:11 people who died never being forgiven, never born again on earth, their names not found in the "Lambs Book of Life"..........

= They committed the unpardonable sin.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Saw this quote on another topic.

Link: Isn’t it odd that the apostles never questioned Jesus about his forever torture chamber?
See post #20

Which begs the question:
Did the Apostle Paul believe in a forever burning hell?

[

Paul was a Pharisee.
He would have known about Sheol.

 

[soberxp]

Paul was a Pharisee.
He would have known about Sheol.

This is the Sheol I saw in reality.

 

[ScottA]

"one taken and one left behind"
I thought it means the same person,
Soul taken and flesh left behind.

It's not average to take one and leave the other. That's not fair enough.

Everything is indeed equal and "fair." And yes, the soul is taken and the flesh left behind, some raised up unto eternal damnation, and some to eternal life.

 

[St. SteVen]

Paul was a Pharisee.
He would have known about Sheol.

Yes.
We need to understand that Sheol is the realm of the dead from which souls will be resurrected for the judgement. (evaluation)
That is different than a forever burning hell.

[

 

[ScottA]

Yes.
We need to understand that Sheol is the realm of the dead from which souls will be resurrected for the judgement. (evaluation)
That is different than a forever burning hell.

[

So, what would you call "everlasting destruction?" Probation?