Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation

[marks]

Yes, all who follow Christ will have afflictions in their lives, tribulation, but not all believers will experience what Jesus referred to in saying, Then will be great tribulation, more than any other time. Not everyone will be on the planet still, and those who are not, will not experience that.

My mother, for instance, she went to the Lord nearly 20 years ago, and she will NOT be here for the great tribulation. The simple truth is that there is no "requirement" that all Christians experience "the great tribulation", only those people who happen to be here at that time will be there for it.

Those who have left by death or pre-trib rapture simply won't be here for it, as will be true for Christians throughout the centuries.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Has Jesus returned?

Precious friend, Great question - we are instructed by our apostle of Grace To Be:

Looking For, Watching For, And Patiently Waiting For Whom?:

"The Great God And our Saviour, The Holy One, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(Romans 8:18-25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:11-19;
Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
Colossians 3:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; 2 Thessalonians 3:5 AV)

Thus if we are to: "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth”,
we have this pertinent question for the opposition, with a view of post-trib:

How exactly does this harmonize with being a "watchman, who is looking and anxiously(?)
waiting for the Wicked one, the man of sin, son of perdition, deceit, signs and wonders,
and Great Tribulation"? The things of earth?

Conclusion, no Jesus Has Not Returned.

Amen.

 

[Taken]

do you have scripture for each line of what you say?;

-To The 3rd Heaven
-To The 2nd Heaven
-To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
-And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
-And remains There for 7 years, While…
where is this from?

Scriptural KNOWLEDGE…
Heaven(S)

Gen.2
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Deut.10
[14] Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Reason; Heaven is a Holy Place.

Lowest (1st Heaven) Clouds. Glimpse, See.
Mountain tops, clouds.
Mountain top, clouds, ground, holy.

Ex 3:
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Mid (2nd Heaven) Beyond Clouds. constellations, Stars, Holy Angels Estate.
Reason. Number of Stars parallel to the number of Holy Angels.

Rev 12
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Reason, see, “falling stars”.

High (3rd heaven). .A place prepared for Living Saved Departed Souls, to Rest In Peace and Comfort … until they are Returned to Earth, in the Day, Heaven is no longer “separated From the Earth.”

2 Cor 12:
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Heaven Above The Heavens… Gods Estate.

Pss 113:
[4] The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
[5] Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,

John 3:
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Eph 4:
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

Show me these 2 events you describe so I may understand what you mean, to you it may seem evident but I do not see what you see, we are generally in agreement if I remember past threads, please show us and explain.

Blessings

Matt 24
" before the flood, one taken, one left."

 

[Taken]

‘The great tribulation is associated with the end of the age and the return of Jesus Christ.


Has Jesus returned?

The Great Tribulation is associated WITH:

* A recap of Pleasing and Questionable behaviors of the Church.

* The Lamb of Gods Anger…His Tribulations and Wrath and Judgements sent down from Heaven upon the inhabitants of the Earth….
For Rejection against Him.

* The Fulfillment of Gods Promise to SAVE ISRAEL His Faithful People.

* The devils Anger…his Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven upon the inhabitants of the Earth…
For Rejection against him.

* The LORD Gods Anger..His Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven upon the inhabitants of the Earth…
-For Rejection against Him…
-For mens Persecutions against men WITH God.

* To Reveal the Coming of “The Son of Mans Return …”
First SEEN (by ALL, on the Earth, In the Earth, Above the Earth) He Sitting on a White Cloud…
Separating They With and Without God.

* To Then Step down ON the Earth and Claim -His “promised Kingdom Land Inheritance”…
-His “promised Throne Inheritance”…
-His “promised Title Inheritance”…
- And accompanied BY / With His holy servant angels …
- And His Perfected holy saints.

Has Jesus returned?

No. Not yet.

 

[JLB]

The LORD Gods Anger..His Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven upon the inhabitants of the Earth…

‘The great tribulation is the devil through the antichrist persecuting the church.

• Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:9-14

 

[Taken]

‘The great tribulation is the devil through the antichrist persecuting the church.

Open eyes. Those things are happening NOW.

Corrupt Preachers.
Burning Churches.
The open Pride of people Against God.
The Demonstrations of Pride in celebrations of Abominations.
The societies of devil worship.
The underhanded pretense an academic Education is purposed for sex and gender confusion indoctrination of childrens vulnerable minds.

• Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Happening FOR Decades Against JEWS.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and thenthe end will come.
Matthew 24:9-14

A very brief overview without details.

 

[JLB]

Open eyes. Those things are happening NOW.

Corrupt Preachers.
Burning Churches.
The open Pride of people Against God.
The Demonstrations of Pride in celebrations of Abominations.
The societies of devil worship.
The underhanded pretense an academic Education is purposed for sex and gender confusion indoctrination of childrens vulnerable minds.

• Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Happening FOR Decades Against JEWS.


“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:9-14

A brief summary without details.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry sir but the Jews are being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Taken]

A brief summary without details.

Sorry sir but the Jews are being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ.
[/QUOTE]

No need to be sorry.
God Allows … Everything has a purpose… even the things that are hard.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Scriptural KNOWLEDGE…
Heaven(S)

Gen.2
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Deut.10
[14] Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Reason; Heaven is a Holy Place.

Lowest (1st Heaven) Clouds. Glimpse, See.
Mountain tops, clouds.
Mountain top, clouds, ground, holy.

Ex 3:
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Mid (2nd Heaven) Beyond Clouds. constellations, Stars, Holy Angels Estate.
Reason. Number of Stars parallel to the number of Holy Angels.

Rev 12
[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Reason, see, “falling stars”.

High (3rd heaven). .A place prepared for Living Saved Departed Souls, to Rest In Peace and Comfort … until they are Returned to Earth, in the Day, Heaven is no longer “separated From the Earth.”

2 Cor 12:
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Heaven Above The Heavens… Gods Estate.

Pss 113:
[4] The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
[5] Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,

John 3:
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Eph 4:
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.

Glory to God,
Taken

So Taken you have cited these verses that have no connection to one another except by the word "Heaven" in them and created your own interpretation? why not relate to the WORDS given By Christ and Again Christ as revealed to John in the book of revelations?

In fact you do not have proof that what you wrote is from scripture;

""Jesus’ “coming”… by default IS Him Leaving, the “Heaven Above the Heavens…”
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…""

 

[Taken]

So Taken you have cited these verses that have no connection to one another except by the word "Heaven"

Heaven was the TOPIC!

Heaven(S) is the Reality.

You should have learned God Reveals Knowledge little by little, bit by bit… same as prudent individuals teach little children.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Quickly Followed .. God established Divisions, regarding His creations.

Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

There Are DivisionS … THEM Plural Heavens, one Earth.

If the
in them and created your own interpretation?

God interprets His own Words.
God Gives His Interpretations to those IN Christ who Seek, Ask, Receive.

Matters not, nor affects my relationship WITH the Lord God, according to what Knowledge YOU learn, know, believe, or YOUR Understanding.

In fact you do not have proof that what you wrote is from scripture;

In fact, I answered your question.
In fact, I gave you a brief indication in Scripture.
In fact, you could conduct your own study on the Heaven(S].
In fact, if you require a toddler version of one liners, get a toddler Bible.

""Jesus’ “coming”… by default IS Him Leaving, the “Heaven Above the Heavens…”

Even a toddler can reason leaving one place, (living room)…going/ coming to another place (bedroom)…may require, traveling through the dining room, a hall, a stop at a bathroom…before reaching the going/ coming to the intended destination of the bedroom.

Precisely —->
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…""

While The inhabitants of the Earth Suffer The Tribulations sent down from Heaven… until they Believe, and their suffering ends… or defy Belief and they die to be judged Separated from God forever.

It’s Gods Creation, that He determines at His pleasure The Order and Way according to His Will.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Heaven was the TOPIC!

Heaven(S) is the Reality.

You should have learned God Reveals Knowledge little by little, bit by bit… same as prudent individuals teach little children.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Quickly Followed .. God established Divisions, regarding His creations.

Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

There Are DivisionS … THEM Plural Heavens, one Earth.



God interprets His own Words.
God Gives His Interpretations to those IN Christ who Seek, Ask, Receive.

Matters not, nor affects my relationship WITH the Lord God, according to what Knowledge YOU learn, know, believe, or YOUR Understanding.



In fact, I answered your question.
In fact, I gave you a brief indication in Scripture.
In fact, you could conduct your own study on the Heaven(S].
In fact, if you require a toddler version of one liners, get a toddler Bible.



Even a toddler can reason leaving one place, (living room)…going/ coming to another place (bedroom)…may require, traveling through the dining room, a hall, a stop at a bathroom…before reaching the going/ coming to the intended destination of the bedroom.

Precisely —->
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…""

While The inhabitants of the Earth Suffer The Tribulations sent down from Heaven… until they Believe, and their suffering ends… or defy Belief and they die to be judged Separated from God forever.

It’s Gods Creation, that He determines at His pleasure The Order and Way according to His Will.

I know Heaven if s the topic but in your replies you often quoe things not biblical, could we all stick to proper scripture in the proper context, this way we could all understand one another through the words of God. it is important for us not to use out personal interpretations, since there is only one truth! do you think only the non believers will suffer, tribulation is a refinement process by fire for all.

 

[JLB]

Sorry sir but the Jews are being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ.

No need to be sorry.
God Allows … Everything has a purpose… even the things that are hard.
[/QUOTE]


Jews are not being persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ .


They reject Jesus as Messiah.

 

[Taken]

I know Heaven if s the topic

but

in your replies you often quoe things not biblical,

could we all stick to proper scripture in the proper context, this way we could all understand one another through the words of God.

You First…

Topic: heaven.

Question: where IS heaven?
Your answer __________?
Question, what IS heaven?
Your answer __________?
Question, does heaven have divisions?
Your answer ___________?
Question, If heaven has divisions, what ARE the divisions For?
Your answer ___________?
Question, If heaven has divisions, what are the divisions called?
You answer ___________?
Question? Who occupies heaven now?
You answer ___________?

Your question…

do you think only the non believers will suffer,

Answer… no

Your statement.

tribulation is a refinement process by fire for all.

Disagree.

Your Scriptural quote?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You First…

Topic: heaven.

Question: where IS heaven?
Your answer __________?
Question, what IS heaven?
Your answer __________?
Question, does heaven have divisions?
Your answer ___________?
Question, If heaven has divisions, what ARE the divisions For?
Your answer ___________?
Question, If heaven has divisions, what are the divisions called?
You answer ___________?
Question? Who occupies heaven now?
You answer ___________?

Heaven, according to the Bible, is often described as being above the earth, the dwelling place of God, His angels, and the righteous. Scriptures like Psalm 115:16 and Matthew 6:9 suggest it exists "above" or "in the heavens," the full nature and location of heaven remain a mystery. The Bible offers only glimpses of heaven, particularly through visions and teachings of figures like Paul (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) and John (Revelation 21), which hint at multiple levels or aspects, such as the "third heaven" or "paradise." However, these glimpses provide limited information, and the Bible makes it clear that full understanding of heaven is beyond human comprehension.
As Jesus Himself said, "If you do not believe when I speak of earthly things, how will you believe when I speak of heavenly things?" (John 3:12). In essence, the Bible offers only partial insights into heaven, revealing just enough for faith but not exhaustive details.

Ultimately, only God knows the full nature of heaven. Our understanding remains limited, and any certainty we seek can only be fully realized in His presence.

for the rest please see a new thread I posted yesterday;

The Purpose of Tribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal

The Purpose of Tribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal A Non-Pauline Biblical Theology of End-Time Suffering Abstract This study explores the theological purpose of tribulation as presented in the the Bible—specifically, the prophetic writings, the teachings of Jesus, and the Book of...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[rebuilder 454]

Show me these 2 events you describe so I may understand what you mean, to you it may seem evident but I do not see what you see, we are generally in agreement if I remember past threads, please show us and explain.

Blessings

Matt 24
" before the flood, one taken, one left."

 

[LoveYeshua]

Matt 24
" before the flood, one taken, one left."

Yes I did see it but what should I reply

Matthew 24:37-41 (NIV):
"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

The "one taken, one left" part refers to the separation of people: one person is taken, and the other is left behind, as it will be during the return of Christ, when some will be saved and others will not.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Precious friend, Great question - we are instructed by our apostle of Grace To Be:

Looking For, Watching For, And Patiently Waiting For Whom?:

"The Great God And our Saviour, The Holy One, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(Romans 8:18-25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:11-19;
Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;
Colossians 3:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; 2 Thessalonians 3:5 AV)

Thus if we are to: "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth”,
we have this pertinent question for the opposition, with a view of post-trib:

How exactly does this harmonize with being a "watchman, who is looking and anxiously(?)
waiting for the Wicked one, the man of sin, son of perdition, deceit, signs and wonders,
and Great Tribulation"? The things of earth?

Conclusion, no Jesus Has Not Returned.

Amen.

The Lord asks us to watch. Myself I focus on the announced Kingdom of heaven and nothing else is worth my time because we do not have much of it left. The Kingdom of Heaven is what we have so seek first. There is no need to be anxious about the coming events, The Lord will protect the faithful. I have had a dream about this I will post in the section dream and visions when I have a bit of time.

Blessings.

 

[Taken]

Heaven, according to the Bible, is often described as being above the earth, the dwelling place of God, His angels, and the righteous. Scriptures like Psalm 115:16 and Matthew 6:9 suggest it exists "above" or "in the heavens," the full nature and location of heaven remain a mystery. The Bible offers only glimpses of heaven, particularly through visions and teachings of figures like Paul (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) and John (Revelation 21), which hint at multiple levels or aspects, such as the "third heaven" or "paradise." However, these glimpses provide limited information, and the Bible makes it clear that full understanding of heaven is beyond human comprehension.
As Jesus Himself said, "If you do not believe when I speak of earthly things, how will you believe when I speak of heavenly things?" (John 3:12). In essence, the Bible offers only partial insights into heaven, revealing just enough for faith but not exhaustive details.

Ultimately, only God knows the full nature of heaven. Our understanding remains limited, and any certainty we seek can only be fully realized in His presence.

for the rest please see a new thread I posted yesterday;

The Purpose of Tribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal

The Purpose of Tribulation: Part I: Refinement, Not Removal A Non-Pauline Biblical Theology of End-Time Suffering Abstract This study explores the theological purpose of tribulation as presented in the the Bible—specifically, the prophetic writings, the teachings of Jesus, and the Book of...

www.christianityboard.com

Simply asked what you believe.

Question: where IS heaven?
Above man’s habitat Earth.

Question, what IS heaven?
Gods Throne.
A firmament.
A spirit dwelling place.

Question, does heaven have divisions?
Yes

Question, If heaven has divisions, what ARE the divisions For?

Dwelling places of Different spirits.

Question, If heaven has divisions, what are the divisions called?
1st, Lower heaven closest to Earth … clouds.
2nd, Outer heaven between Lower and Higher Heaven … Stars
3rd, High Heaven, Paradise
Gods dwelling place, Heaven above the Heavens.

Question? Who occupies heaven now?
Spirits, Saved departed souls.

What is a firmament?
A water divided from water.

 

[Taken]

The "one taken, one left" part refers to the separation of people: one person is taken, and the other is left behind, as it will be during the return of Christ, when some will be saved and others will not.

To Where specific does CHRIST Return?

When specific does CHRIST Return?
Before the Great Tribulation?
During The Great Tribulation?
After the Great Tribulation?