David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Interesting
How did you come to the conclusion of thought that JE prexisted as a man???
Jesus is the Son of his God
- Thread starter Matthias
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How did you come to the conclusion of thought that JE prexisted as a man???
The theology or the lure?
I’m a Jewish monotheist. Jewish monotheists believe in ideal preexistence.
Jesus is elohim and anthropos -> God and man.
I thought you already knew that.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
BOTH
How so???
In other words, How does a Jewish monotheist come to this conclusion?
The lure
Some days you get the bass and some days the bass gets you. The bass got me that day. The lure had tremendous sentimental value to me. It was my father’s favorite lure. He gave it to me and told me to take good care of it. I’ve never had the desire to fish since that day.
***
The theology
Jewish monotheism is the unitary monotheism of Israel.
From reading scripture through Hebraic, not Hellenistic, eyes.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jewish monotheism is based on Torah/Holy Scriptures/5 Books = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Jewish montheism claim the SHEMA speaks only of one/yachid God
HOWEVER, they do so in unbelief and in rebellion against Moses and the prophets for the SHEMA uses two plural words:
a.) Elohim (Gods)
b.) ECHAD = more then one that are act/unified as one
GENESIS Declares that Elohim is THREE = and the GOSPEL Declares Elohim is THREE = REVELATION Declares Elohim is THREE
Love you @Matthias
Jewish monotheism doesn’t make the claim that the Shema speaks only of one / yachid elohim.
Jewish monotheism makes the claim that the Shema speaks only of one / echad elohim.
Yachid isn’t applied to the God of Israel in scripture. Yahweh is echad, never yachid.
I’ve addressed all of these claims about elohim and echad with you many times before. I don’t have anything new to add to what I’ve said before.
There is no connection in the Shema with the Hebrew word yachid.
At the 0:54 mark in the video I’ve linked, the Hebrew word is highlighted in red and pronounced aloud. The word is unquestionably echad, not yachid.
When a Jewish monotheist recites the Shema, - as Jesus himself would have done thousands of times - it’s unthinkable, a complete impossibility, that he (or she) would ever say yachid.
Yachid is a rare word and seldom occurs (only 12 times) anywhere in the Hebrew Bible. This can be confirmed by consulting a Hebrew Lexicon.
P.S.
My spirit was so grieved - this would be a common reaction by any Jewish monotheist, whether or not he or she believes that Jesus is the Messiah - that I couldn’t go to bed.
I retrieved Lexical information on yachid from biblehub.com for my readers:
At the 0:54 mark in the video I’ve linked, the Hebrew word is highlighted in red and pronounced aloud. The word is unquestionably echad, not yachid.
When a Jewish monotheist recites the Shema, - as Jesus himself would have done thousands of times - it’s unthinkable, a complete impossibility, that he (or she) would ever say yachid.
Yachid is a rare word and seldom occurs (only 12 times) anywhere in the Hebrew Bible. This can be confirmed by consulting a Hebrew Lexicon.
P.S.
My spirit was so grieved - this would be a common reaction by any Jewish monotheist, whether or not he or she believes that Jesus is the Messiah - that I couldn’t go to bed.
I retrieved Lexical information on yachid from biblehub.com for my readers:
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Jews CHANGED the scripture from echad to yachid
I will get you the persons name who did this = famous rabbi(now dead)
Genesis and Exodus DECLARE Elohim is THREE and the Shema declares a untited/echad Elohim.
Good night my Brother in CHRIST
I’ve heard that argument before.
I might be mistaken but I think you’re speaking about Maimonides.
Echad vs Yachid – Excerpt from Supplement to Contra Brown
1. Page 4 Brown addresses Maimonides’ statement that Jews must believe in God as an “only one (- absolute unity): “There is no doubt that this reaction was due to exaggerated, unbiblical, “Christia…
judaismresources.net
If the famous rabbi you have in mind is someone else, please let me know.
Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth would never have said yachid.
When I recite the Shema, I would never say yachid.
Never in my life have I ever heard a Jew say the word yachid when reciting the Shema.
Not when read through the prism of Jewish monotheism.
Good night.
Watch as the cantor covers his eyes at the 0:50 mark in the video and listen his words. He is leading the congregation in reciting the Shema.
Does he say yachid? No. He says echad.
If Moses himself had been there and heard the cantor and the congregation he would have nodded in agreement. So too would have the Messiah if he had been there.
It’s absurd to say or even to suggest that the Jews have changed the scripture. They haven’t.
I’ve personally visited the synagogue and heard the unbelieving Jews recite the Shema in their service. I recited the Shema with them, in Hebrew. Not a single one of them uttered the word yachid. I didn’t utter the word yachid. If I had done such an irresponsible thing there would have been severe consequences.
I ate lunch with the rabbi (and several members of the congreagation) after the service concluded. If anyone had said yachid instead of echad I would have confronted the rabbi about it during our meal.
(Deuteronomy 6:4) Doesn’t Scripture Use the Hebrew Word Echad to Refer to God as a Compound Unity? -
A collection of books, articles and presentations giving clear answers to your questions concerning the character of God.
For anyone who might be interested, I just finished reading this article. I don’t know who the author is, nor do I know what else this ministry promotes. What I can say is that this particular article provides a thorough response on the echad vs. yachid issue and I’m in agreement with it.
Here is the bottom line, no matter what a believing or an unbelieving Jew might say. Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of the living God, must have the final word.
The Shema is the creed, his creed, about his God. His God is echad. There is no plurality in the God and Father of the lord Jesus Messiah. There is no plurality in the God of Israel, Yahweh.
The Shema is the creed, his creed, about his God. His God is echad. There is no plurality in the God and Father of the lord Jesus Messiah. There is no plurality in the God of Israel, Yahweh.
It is not either-or. The cultures influenced each other and mixed. For example Galilee was something like today's USA - a melting pot of various cultures and nations. Inhabitants were even commonly multilingual.
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@Matthias you gave me like 12 questions in 6 posts. Let us keep the conversation a bit manageable. Would you say you have some form of OCD?
I do not think that non-trinitarians can be called Christians. Not in the standard, accepted meaning of the word, today. Maybe only technically "somebody believing in Christ", but that is all. They would not be accepted as Christians by the vast majority of Christians.
Anyway, the point was these are Christian forums. So your answers like "but this is not so in Judaism" are irrelevant.
I do not think that non-trinitarians can be called Christians. Not in the standard, accepted meaning of the word, today. Maybe only technically "somebody believing in Christ", but that is all. They would not be accepted as Christians by the vast majority of Christians.
Anyway, the point was these are Christian forums. So your answers like "but this is not so in Judaism" are irrelevant.
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dak
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- Feb 9, 2013
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Since you have mentioned earlier that you are able to read the scripture in Greek, (that was you, correct? forgive me if I am wrong), please explain the meaning of pros.
I had no intention of quoting it again in this thread but due to the comment about an alleged connection of yachid with the Shema by the Jews, I am going to post it in this thread.
“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud [aism] his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; see Mk. 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3.”
(New International Dictionary of New Testament TheologyAbridged Edition, p. 244)
Bold is mine.
The one God is echad, not yachid.
The one God is the God of the fathers.
The one God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The one God is the God of Israel.
The one God is the God of Jesus Christ.
The one God is the God of the Shema.
The one God is the God of Jewish monotheism.
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