How Many Judgements Of Being Cast Into The Lake of Fire Are There?

[Davy]

If you've gone through the thread about how many times are the 'dead' judged, you'll just find complete confusion. Most there can't even get past their fleshy carnal thinking when the events after Christ's future return have to do with the world to come of Spirit. We all will be in spirit bodies then, no more flesh body existence.

There are many different judgments written of in God's Word, but only ONE final Judgment of being cast into the future "lake of fire", called the "second death" in Revelation 20.


So anyone can ask a loaded question like how many times are the 'dead' judged, and it will not focus on the actual Judgement that casts them into the future "lake of fire", which only is judged after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

Amills like to present such inconsistent arguments in attempt to prove their false position, because they instead wrongly teach that the wicked are all judged in final to the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, and that the "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign is not literal they believe.

 

[Jay Ross]

that the "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign is not literal

Oh Davy, can I ask you what type of "future reign" you or the Amills are speaking of and from where this future reign will take place?

There is so much misinformation being floated around on "feelings" that confusion is presently the order of the day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you've gone through the thread about how many times are the 'dead' judged, you'll just find complete confusion. Most there can't even get past their fleshy carnal thinking when the events after Christ's future return have to do with the world to come of Spirit. We all will be in spirit bodies then, no more flesh body existence.

There are many different judgments written of in God's Word, but only ONE final Judgment of being cast into the future "lake of fire", called the "second death" in Revelation 20.


So anyone can ask a loaded question like how many times are the 'dead' judged, and it will not focus on the actual Judgement that casts them into the future "lake of fire", which only is judged after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

Amills like to present such inconsistent arguments in attempt to prove their false position, because they instead wrongly teach that the wicked are all judged in final to the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, and that the "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign is not literal they believe.

Matthew 25:31-46 makes it very clear that the unsaved will be cast "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" when Jesus comes again with His angels and not 1,000+ years later. So, you can say all you want, but you don't have scripture on your side. Jesus also said that the wicked will be cast into a furnace of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the end of the age (Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 13:47-50). Jesus will return at the end of the age, so those passages also show the wicked unsaved being cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returns. Unlike Premills, Amills are able to back up their understanding of Revelation 20 with other scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh Davy, can I ask you what type of "future reign" you or the Amills are speaking of and from where this future reign will take place?

There is so much misinformation being floated around on "feelings" that confusion is presently the order of the day.

Amills don't speak of any future reign, but instead believe that Christ has been reigning since His resurrection, so why did you ask him what future reign he "or the Amills are speaking of"?

 

[Jay Ross]

Amills don't speak of any future reign, but instead believe that Christ has been reigning since His resurrection, so why did you ask him what future reign he "or the Amills are speaking of"?

There is a strong belief by some that Christ will soon reign upon the face of the earth for 1,000 years. Scripture suggests otherwise.

I was asking for clarification of his understanding.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is a strong belief by some that Christ will soon reign upon the face of the earth for 1,000 years.

You know that Amills don't believe that, right? Were you just talking about Amills referencing what Premills believe about that? It came across as if you were saying that Amills also believe that, so that's why I questioned your statement.

Scripture suggests otherwise.

Agree.

I was asking for clarification of his understanding.

Yes, but I didn't understand why you lumped Amills in with his understanding. He is a Premill.

 

[Jay Ross]

Yes, but I didn't understand why you lumped Amills in with his understanding. He is a Premill.

Do we all really understand each other's understanding unless it is carefully spelt out?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do we all really understand each other's understanding unless it is carefully spelt out?

Maybe not completely, but no Amill believes in a future earthly reign of Christ for a thousand years. That's something only Premills believe.

 

[Jay Ross]

Maybe not completely, but no Amill believes in a future earthly reign of Christ for a thousand years. That's something only Premills believe.

Why do you have a need to answer for others?

From my perspective there is not much difference between the two perspectives, but I was wanting Davy to explain why there is a difference.

 

[Davidpt]

If you've gone through the thread about how many times are the 'dead' judged, you'll just find complete confusion. Most there can't even get past their fleshy carnal thinking when the events after Christ's future return have to do with the world to come of Spirit. We all will be in spirit bodies then, no more flesh body existence.

There are many different judgments written of in God's Word, but only ONE final Judgment of being cast into the future "lake of fire", called the "second death" in Revelation 20.


So anyone can ask a loaded question like how many times are the 'dead' judged, and it will not focus on the actual Judgement that casts them into the future "lake of fire", which only is judged after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

Amills like to present such inconsistent arguments in attempt to prove their false position, because they instead wrongly teach that the wicked are all judged in final to the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, and that the "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign is not literal they believe.

The following passages, and there could be more, record being cast into the LOF.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The first question that needs to be asked. Based on what Revelation 20:15 records in regards to not being found written in the book of life, would that also apply to Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10? Of course not. Therefore, those 2 judgments are not involving the same judgment Revelation 20:12-15 is involving, yet they all get cast into the same LOF, but at different times.

Would it also apply to Matthew 25:46 then, in regards to not found written in the book of life? One thing is for certain, Matthew 25:46 is determined during His 2nd coming, not a thousand years later instead. And since they are already judged and sentenced in Matthew 25, does it makes sense that they get judged and sentence again, a thousand years later during the GWTJ? The point being, it could mean some of the unsaved are cast into the LOF prior to the beginning of the millenium, the rest of the unsaved are cast into the LOF after the millennium.

Per my view this can be explained. The goats in Matthew 25 are not meaning all the lost in general, from the beginning of mankind through the end of this age. They are only meaning those in the body of Christ that fell away, thus NOSAS.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you have a need to answer for others?

I don't. What are you talking about? You asked me a question and I answered it. Did you somehow forget that you were talking to me in post #7 and not to him?

From my perspective there is not much difference between the two perspectives, but I was wanting Davy to explain why there is a difference.

You have to be very ignorant to think there is not much difference between Amill and Premill.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The following passages, and there could be more, record being cast into the LOF.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The first question that needs to be asked. Based on what Revelation 20:15 records in regards to not being found written in the book of life, would that also apply to Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10? Of course not. Therefore, those 2 judgments are not involving the same judgment Revelation 20:12-15 is involving, yet they all get cast into the same LOF, but at different times.

Would it also apply to Matthew 25:46 then, in regards to not found written in the book of life? One thing is for certain, Matthew 25:46 is determined during His 2nd coming, not a thousand years later instead. And since they are already judged and sentenced in Matthew 25, does it makes sense that they get judged and sentence again, a thousand years later during the GWTJ? The point being, it could mean some of the unsaved are cast into the LOF prior to the beginning of the millenium, the rest of the unsaved are cast into the LOF after the millennium.

Per my view this can be explained. The goats in Matthew 25 are not meaning all the lost in general, from the beginning of mankind through the end of this age. They are only meaning those in the body of Christ that fell away, thus NOSAS.

Would you agree that Matthew 25:41 refers to people being cast into the lake of fire, also? The same people referenced in Matthew 25:46 are the ones referenced here...

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

How about these passages. Do you understand these to be talking about the same thing as the lake of fire, even though Jesus refers to "the furnace of fire" in these?

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus will return at the end of the world/age. That is when He indicated that the wicked will be cast into the furnace of fire, which is just another way of referring to the lake of fire. Jesus also referred to it as "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" in Matthew 25:41.

So, it seems that you acknowledge that at least some whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire when Jesus comes again. Yet, Revelation 20:15 does not say that some of those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire as of the time that Revelation 20:15 occurs. It just says those whose names are not written in the book of life, which I would say implies all whose names are not written in the book of life. Why would some whose names are not written in the book of life be cast into the lake of fire on one occasion and some on another occasion? What would be the reasoning for that? I don't see any basis for that or any reason why that would be the case.

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh Davy, can I ask you what type of "future reign" you or the Amills are speaking of and from where this future reign will take place?

There is so much misinformation being floated around on "feelings" that confusion is presently the order of the day.

I believe that I had posed a question to Davy, as quoted above, which you replied with: -

Amills don't speak of any future reign, but instead believe that Christ has been reigning since His resurrection, so why did you ask him what future reign he "or the Amills are speaking of"?

To which I responded with: -

There is a strong belief by some that Christ will soon reign upon the face of the earth for 1,000 years. Scripture suggests otherwise.

I was asking for clarification of his understanding.

This diagram tries to explain the difference between the four different "Millenium" understandings.



This diagram sort of satisfies the different understandings. However, the diagram below provides a different understanding but since I do not believe in the rapture as depicted in this diagram or some of the other present understandings, I am only showing this diagram to show the scope of the weird understandings: -



Yes we can read all of the different forms of understandings out there in the ethernet, but what I was asking Davy to do was to present his own understanding.

 

[Davy]

Oh Davy, can I ask you what type of "future reign" you or the Amills are speaking of and from where this future reign will take place?

There is so much misinformation being floated around on "feelings" that confusion is presently the order of the day.

All one need do is 'stay' with what is written in God's Word instead of heeding misinformation from men's doctrines.

Ps 2:6-12
6 Yet have I set my king upon My holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, "Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

Rev 2:26-29
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

The above should... be all the Biblical proof one needs to know that Christ's future reign with that "rod of iron" over the nations is what the Revelation 20 "thousand years" period will be about; a literal period. That Psalms 2 prophecy is about the future with Lord Jesus having returned ON EARTH (holy hill Zion, which means Jerusalem on earth), reigning with that "rod of iron" over the nations, and His elect Church reigning with Him with that "rod of iron", as He promised in the above Revelation 2 Scripture.

 

[Davy]

The following passages, and there could be more, record being cast into the LOF.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Does that Matt.25 Scripture mention anything about God's Great White Throne Judgment that happens after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, per Rev.20? No, Matthew 25 does not go into that amount of detail, but Revelation 20 does. So why try and default to an incomplete coverage of those events which contain more details in other Bible Scripture written elsewhere in God's Word?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

That event that occurs only on the day of Christ's future return, I have already tried to explain to folks, but men's doctrines have many blinded about it. We do not worship a GOD that will destroy any soul 'born in the flesh', in the "lake of fire" PRIOR to the Judgment written to happen AFTER the future "thousand years" by Christ, per Rev.20.

The titles of the "beast" and "false prophet" of Rev.16 and Rev.19 are specific to the endtime 'beast' idea, both the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, and the beast king idea of Rev.17. And the "false prophet" is a title associated with the idea of the 'beast king', or "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward. Those are ROLES that the coming Antichrist (beast king) will play. They are not flesh men, simply because no one born in the flesh is judged to perish untill after the future "thousand years" reign by Jesus Christ and His elect. By that, Lord Jesus revealed that it will be the "dragon" (Satan himself) as the coming Antichrist at the end of this world, because Rev.19:20 shows us the "dragon" is not destroyed yet along with the "beast" and "false prophet" at Christ's coming. And that fact further points to the "thousand years" event in Rev.20 as being a literal period.

 

[Jay Ross]

All one need do is 'stay' with what is written in God's Word instead of heeding misinformation from men's doctrines.

Ps 2:6-12
6 Yet have I set my king upon My holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, "Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

Rev 2:26-29
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

The above should... be all the Biblical proof one needs to know that Christ's future reign with that "rod of iron" over the nations is what the Revelation 20 "thousand years" period will be about; a literal period. That Psalms 2 prophecy is about the future with Lord Jesus having returned ON EARTH (holy hill Zion, which means Jerusalem on earth), reigning with that "rod of iron" over the nations, and His elect Church reigning with Him with that "rod of iron", as He promised in the above Revelation 2 Scripture.

Davy, I do not believe that you have adequately answered my question re Christ's rule during the Millenium period.

Perhaps you may like to try explaining your understanding again.

 

[David in NJ]

I believe that I had posed a question to Davy, as quoted above, which you replied with: -



To which I responded with: -


This diagram tries to explain the difference between the four different "Millenium" understandings.

View attachment 72782

This diagram sort of satisfies the different understandings. However, the diagram below provides a different understanding but since I do not believe in the rapture as depicted in this diagram or some of the other present understandings, I am only showing this diagram to show the scope of the weird understandings: -

View attachment 72784

Yes we can read all of the different forms of understandings out there in the ethernet, but what I was asking Davy to do was to present his own understanding.

Well pre-trib is false because there never existed such a fib in Scripture as a third Coming of Christ, which your chart described as two separate 2nd Comings - lol

Post-millenialism is also inaccurate because the Final Judgment is the Great White Throne Judgment and that ONLY follows the 1,000 Years which ONLY follows AFTER the 2nd Coming of Christ

Ammilinialism is also inaccurate because it disavows the words of Christ and the Apostles and Genesis in that God created LITERAL 24 hour days and 7 days a week and of course the Sun/Moon/Stars and the Seasons which are YEARLY Cycles = who'd of thought!!!

That leaves us with ONLY the TRUTH of Genesis , Gospel and Revelation = I'll TAKE IT

 

[Davy]

Davy, I do not believe that you have adequately answered my question re Christ's rule during the Millenium period.

Perhaps you may like to try explaining your understanding again.

Nah... I already showed you, or actually the Psalms 2 and Revelation 2 Scriptures showed you. The problem you are obviously having is that you have chosen to heed doctrines from men that go against those written Bible Scriptures.

 

[Jay Ross]

Nah... I already showed you, or actually the Psalms 2 and Revelation 2 Scriptures showed you. The problem you are obviously having is that you have chosen to heed doctrines from men that go against those written Bible Scriptures.

So, your best defence against anyone who questions your understanding is to use the false argument that they are the problem and that you have the right understanding by inference.

Sorry Davy, your defence shows that your understand does not stack up even against the scriptures that you quote.

 

[Douggg]

If you've gone through the thread about how many times are the 'dead' judged, you'll just find complete confusion. Most there can't even get past their fleshy carnal thinking when the events after Christ's future return have to do with the world to come of Spirit. We all will be in spirit bodies then, no more flesh body existence.

There are many different judgments written of in God's Word, but only ONE final Judgment of being cast into the future "lake of fire", called the "second death" in Revelation 20.


So anyone can ask a loaded question like how many times are the 'dead' judged, and it will not focus on the actual Judgement that casts them into the future "lake of fire", which only is judged after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect.

Amills like to present such inconsistent arguments in attempt to prove their false position, because they instead wrongly teach that the wicked are all judged in final to the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's future return, and that the "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign is not literal they believe.

The beast and false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire the day that Jesus returns. Revelation 19:20.

A thousand years later, Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10.

Then at the Great White Throne judgement, anyone who's name is not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.