Jesus is the Son of his God

[David in NJ]

It isn’t. Echad is singular regardless of whether or not the noun it modifies is singular or plural.

Elohim is always plural in form but seldom plural in meaning.

Any faithful language teacher will instruct you in the righteousness of TRUTH that 'echad' is dependent upon the SUBJECT, which in the Shema, is Adonai Elohim = whether in Hebrew or English

Jewish people without the Spirit of MESSIAH, are not faithful as they remain in darkness and as such they only "seek to establish their own righteousness"

MESSIAH wants you to be reminded of the perilous state of unredeemed Jewish teachers - Matthew ch23

But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
24Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[Matthias]

Any faithful language teacher will instruct you in the righteousness of TRUTH that 'echad' is dependent upon the SUBJECT, which in the Shema, is Adonai Elohim = whether in Hebrew or English

Echad isn’t dependent on the Shema. It’s a common word which occurs around 950 times in the Hebrew Bible. If you want to confirm this you can do so by consulting a Lexicon.

Adonai is a replacement for the tetragrammaton. The Messiah is adoni, not adonai. See, for example, Psalm 110:1.

I don’t know if you can read Hebrew or not but, if you can’t, just count the letters in the two words. That alone will be enough to alert you that the words aren’t the same.

Jewish people without the Spirit of MESSIAH, are not faithful as they remain in darkness and as such they only "seek to establish their own righteousness"

MESSIAH wants you to be reminded of the perilous state of unredeemed Jewish teachers - Matthew ch23

But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
24Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[David in NJ]

Echad isn’t dependent on the Shema. It’s a common word which occurs around 950 times in the Hebrew Bible. If you want to confirm this you can do so by consulting a Lexicon.

Adonai is a replacement for the tetragrammaton. The Messiah is adoni, not adonai. See, for example, Psalm 110:1.

I don’t know if you can read Hebrew or not but, if you can’t, just count the letters in the two words. That alone will be enough to alert you that the words aren’t the same.

King David was "adoni" in Psalm 110:1

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pay attention to the TRUTH = Born-Again Hebrew Prophet Isaiah ch45

Truly You Elohim, who hide Yourself,
O Elohim of Israel, the Savior!
They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.
For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is Elohim
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other. = John 8:23-24 , Acts 4:4 , Philippians 2:5-11

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In law, "allegorical" refers to interpretations that convey deeper meanings or moral lessons through symbolic representations, often used in legal texts or discussions to illustrate complex ideas.

This approach allows for a richer understanding of legal principles beyond their literal wording

Genesis , Exodus , Gospel , Apostles , Revelation

There is One ABBA = Who is Elohim from the Beginning = allegorically is Avraham/FATHER

There is One Yaweh/Adonai = The Word that was Elohim in the Beginning = allegorically is Yitzach/Promised SON/SEED

There is One Ruach HaKodesh = Who is Elohim from the Beginning = allegorically is Yakov/HOLY SPIRIT

 

[ProverbsInPink]

It would be if my spiritual heritage was unbelieving Jews. My spiritual heritage is believing Jews. Believing Jews didn’t stone Christians; they were the earliest Christians.



“Heritage: a person’s racial, ethnic, religious or cultural background.”

heritage

1. features belonging to the culture of a particular society, such as…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Everyone has a heritage. Your religious heritage is trinitarianism. You didn’t develop it yourself; the church did, over a period of several hundred years. It’s been with us since the 4th century. You stand in that long line of history.

You aren’t the first trinitarian. You won’t be the last trinitarian.

Trinitarianism stands against the Shema.

Do you affirm the Nicene Creed?

Do you support the “one gods” teaching that was introduced in the thread yesterday?

One god's is a contradiction.

 

[David in NJ]

One god's is a contradiction.

YES, and the point i was making is that Elohim is PLURAL and literally means 'gods/plural', BUT is always spoken in language structure as singular because THEY are ECHAD= Echad Elohim

Elohim is more then one Person as Declared by Elohim in the very first chapter of Genesis.

Do you really believe that the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT did not know that the word Elohim is PLURAL???

If we are going to believe TRUTH then we must never believe/trust EXACTLY what has been Spoken by ELohim to us.

SHALOM

 

[ProverbsInPink]

YES, and the point i was making is that Elohim is PLURAL and literally means 'gods/plural', BUT is always spoken in language structure as singular because THEY are ECHAD= Echad Elohim

Elohim is more then one Person as Declared by Elohim in the very first chapter of Genesis.

Do you really believe that the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT did not know that the word Elohim is PLURAL???

If we are going to believe TRUTH then we must never believe/trust EXACTLY what has been Spoken by ELohim to us.

SHALOM

https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/58976

"Elohim is technically plural, but unfortunately the lack of knowledge of Biblical Hebrew can make a simple question sound difficult to the outsider. In Hebrew, as in ancient Arabic and Latin, respect is conveyed by using the plural ("Pluralis majestatis"), sort of like the "Royal 'we'" in English, where the king refers to himself as "we". See for example Isaiah 19, 4 where the Bible uses singular and plural together regarding the Egyptian king: "… in the hand of hard (singular) masters (plural) and a brazen king", where obviously that monarch is the one and only ruler. Similarly in Breishit 39, 40 regarding Potiphar, "And Joseph's masters (plural) took (singular) him"; and (42, 30), regarding Joseph, "that man (singular), the masters (plural) of the land"; Shemot 22, 10, "its owners (plural) shall accept (singular) it"; and (21, 4) "if his masters will give (singular) him a wife". None of these could have ever been misconstrued as referring to several or a trinity, although they are all technically plural! The term Eloha, which is without that respectful plural, is almost never used in the Torah and only in a poetic form (e.g. Dvarim 32)."

 

[David in NJ]

https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/58976

"Elohim is technically plural, but unfortunately the lack of knowledge of Biblical Hebrew can make a simple question sound difficult to the outsider. In Hebrew, as in ancient Arabic and Latin, respect is conveyed by using the plural ("Pluralis majestatis"), sort of like the "Royal 'we'" in English, where the king refers to himself as "we". See for example Isaiah 19, 4 where the Bible uses singular and plural together regarding the Egyptian king: "… in the hand of hard (singular) masters (plural) and a brazen king", where obviously that monarch is the one and only ruler. Similarly in Breishit 39, 40 regarding Potiphar, "And Joseph's masters (plural) took (singular) him"; and (42, 30), regarding Joseph, "that man (singular), the masters (plural) of the land"; Shemot 22, 10, "its owners (plural) shall accept (singular) it"; and (21, 4) "if his masters will give (singular) him a wife". None of these could have ever been misconstrued as referring to several or a trinity, although they are all technically plural! The term Eloha, which is without that respectful plural, is almost never used in the Torah and only in a poetic form (e.g. Dvarim 32)."

You did not answer the question.

Do you believe that Elohim/Plural is a mistake/grammatical error???

 

[ProverbsInPink]

You did not answer the question.

Do you believe that Elohim/Plural is a mistake/grammatical error???

Elohim is plural, which the article I linked says too. So I did answer the question.
I believe God is one.Just as He says of Himself in his own words.

 

[David in NJ]

Elohim is plural, which the article I linked says too. So I did answer the question.
I believe God is one.Just as He says of Himself in his own words.Elohim/God Says that THEY are Echad NOT Yachid

Genesis 1:26 - "Elohim said Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness"

Well we cannot have it both ways, for either Elohim is Plural or HE is not.

There are two Hebrew words for "one" = echad and yachid

Echad means it can be more then a single item
Yachid means singular = only one item

This is why Elohim strictly used the word "echad" in the Shema

Just curious here, have you read and studied Genesis???

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Genesis 1:26 - "Elohim said Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness"

Well we cannot have it both ways, for either Elohim is Plural or HE is not.

There are two Hebrew words for "one" = echad and yachid

Echad means it can be more then a single item
Yachid means singular = only one item

This is why Elohim strictly used the word "echad" in the Shema

Just curious here, have you read and studied Genesis???

I take it as the contemporary royal we.

Our faith is not polytheistic or Tritheism.
True. You can't have it both ways.

Hear O Israel out God is one.
I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior

 

[David in NJ]

I take it as the contemporary royal we.

Our faith is not polytheistic or Tritheism.
True. You can't have it both ways.

Hear O Israel out God is one.
I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Strong's Lexicon Hear, שְׁמַ֖ע‪‬ (šə·ma‘) Verb - Qal - Imperative - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 8085: v 1) to hear, listen to, obey 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to hear (perceive by ear) 1a2) to hear of or concerning 1a3) to hear (have power to hear) 1a4) to hear with attention or interest, listen to 1a5) to understand (language) 1a6) to hear (of judicial cases) 1a7) to listen, give heed 1a7a) to consent, agree 1a7b) to grant request 1a8) to listen to, yield to 1a9) to obey, be obedient 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be heard (of voice or sound) 1b2) to be heard of 1b3) to be regarded, be obeyed 1c) (Piel) to cause to hear, call to hear, summon 1d) (Hiphil) 1d1) to cause to hear, tell, proclaim, utter a sound 1d2) to sound aloud (musical term) 1d3) to make proclamation, summon 1d4) to cause to be heard n m 2) sound O Israel: יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל (yiś·rā·’êl) Noun - proper - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 3478: Israel = 'God prevails' 1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel 2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob 2a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split 2b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah 2c) the name of the nation after the return from exile The LORD יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh) Noun - proper - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136 our God, אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū) Noun - masculine plural construct | first person common plural Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God the LORD יְהוָ֥ה ׀ (Yah·weh) Noun - proper - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136 is One. אֶחָֽד׃‪‬ (’e·ḥāḏ) Number - masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 259: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first 1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)

 

[Matthias]

King David was "adoni" in Psalm 110:1

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pay attention to the TRUTH = Born-Again Hebrew Prophet Isaiah ch45

Truly You Elohim, who hide Yourself,
O Elohim of Israel, the Savior!
They shall be ashamed
And also disgraced, all of them;
They shall go in confusion together,
Who are makers of idols.
But Israel shall be saved by the Lord
With an everlasting salvation;
You shall not be ashamed or disgraced
Forever and ever.
For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is Elohim
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other. = John 8:23-24 , Acts 4:4 , Philippians 2:5-11

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++







Genesis , Exodus , Gospel , Apostles , Revelation

There is One ABBA = Who is Elohim from the Beginning = allegorically is Avraham/FATHER

There is One Yaweh/Adonai = The Word that was Elohim in the Beginning = allegorically is Yitzach/Promised SON/SEED

There is One Ruach HaKodesh = Who is Elohim from the Beginning = allegorically is Yakov/HOLY SPIRIT

Psalm 110 is a Messianic psalm. “Yahweh said to my adoni“ -> the God of Israel is speaking prophetically to someone who isn’t the God of Israel. You say it is King David but the New Testament identifies the person spoken to as Jesus.

Adoni is a non-deity title.

 

[David in NJ]

Psalm 110 is a Messianic psalm. “Yahweh said to my adoni“ -> the God of Israel is speaking prophetically to someone who isn’t the God of Israel. You say it is King David but the New Testament identifies the person spoken to as Jesus.

Adoni is a non-deity title.

Yahweh said to David/adoni

David is the non-deity adoni

The Shema declares there is One LORD = Deut 6:4
The OT Prophets declares there is One Savior who is the LORD = Isaiah 43:11 , 45:
The Gospel declares that YESHUA is the One LORD = Matthew 7:21
The Apostles declare that YESHUA is the One LORD = 2 Peter 3:18 , Ephesians 4:5 , 1 Corinthians 8:6 , Philippians 2:9-11 , 3:20
Revelation declares that YESHUA is the One LORD = Revelation 19:11-16

Philippians 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

SHALOM in Adonai YAHshua HaMashiach = Isaiah 26:4

 

[Matthias]

Yahweh said to David/adoni

David is the non-deity adoni

The Shema declares there is One LORD = Deut 6:4
The OT Prophets declares there is One Savior who is the LORD = Isaiah 43:11 , 45:
The Gospel declares that YESHUA is the One LORD = Matthew 7:21
The Apostles declare that YESHUA is the One LORD = 2 Peter 3:18 , Ephesians 4:5 , 1 Corinthians 8:6 , Philippians 2:9-11 , 3:20
Revelation declares that YESHUA is the One LORD = Revelation 19:11-16

Philippians 3:20 - For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

SHALOM in Adonai YAHshua HaMashiach

Again, the NT writers identify Jesus of Nazareth, not King David, as the person whom Yahweh is addressing in the prophetic oracle.

Adoni is a title given to many persons in the Bible. It occurs 195 times, and in every occurrence is someone who isn’t Yahweh.

 

[David in NJ]

I take it as the contemporary royal we.

Our faith is not polytheistic or Tritheism.
True. You can't have it both ways.

Hear O Israel out God is one.
I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior

i do not believe nor promote "tritheism"

The Scriptures Declare a TRINITY

1. trinity /trĭn′ĭ-tē/
   
   

   noun​

   1. A group consisting of three closely related members.
   2. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

i do not believe nor promote "tritheism"

The Scriptures Declare a TRINITY

1. trinity /trĭn′ĭ-tē/
   
   

   noun​

   1. A group consisting of three closely related members.
   2. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God.

I'm aware.

There is no trinity in the Old Testament.

 

[David in NJ]

Again, the NT writers identify Jesus of Nazareth, not King David, as the person whom Yahweh is addressing in the prophetic oracle.

Adoni is a title given to many persons in the Bible. It occurs 195 times and in every occurrence is someone who isn’t Yahweh.

Psalm 110:1 David writes that YAHWEH is His Adonai

The LORD/YHWH said to my lord/adoni/David

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”

They said to Him, “The Son of David.”

He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?
If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?”
And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him


i just gave you overwhelming evidence that there is only One LORD

Yet you want to diverge on something neither the Jews nor others understand

 

[David in NJ]

I'm aware.

There is no trinity in the Old Testament.

question from Genesis 1:26

Who are the "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness"???

 

[Matthias]

Psalm 110:1 David writes that YAHWeh is His Adonai

That’s not true. Yahweh isn’t speaking to my Yahweh. Yahweh is speaking to someone who is identified with the non-deity title. The deity is speaking a a non-deity. The Hebrew deity title adonai doesn’t occur in verse 1.

The LORD/YHWH said ….

That’s right. That’s David’s God. That’s Abraham’s God. That’s the Messiah’s God. That’s the one God of Israel.

… to my lord/adoni/David

That’s not right. That’s the non-deity title but Yahweh is speaking prophetically to Jesus.

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”

They said to Him, “The Son of David.”

He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?
If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?”
And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him


i just gave you overwhelming evidence that there is only One LORD

Yet you want to diverge on something neither the Jews nor others understand

What you’ve written doesn’t agree with the NT identification of “to my lord” as Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

Psalms 110 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Psalm 110 in Hebrew and English.

Yahweh is never given the non-deity title in scripture. Yahweh is the speaker. The Messiah is the person whom Yahweh is speaking to.

An assertion that verse 1 reads “my Adonai” is unsupportable. The text reads, as @David in NJ correctly said, “my adoni”.