Jesus is the Son of his God
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You need language for that - lol
John 1:3 - "Through Him all things were made...." and Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created..."
| Strong's Lexicon Through δι’ (di’) Preposition Strong's Greek 1223: A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through. Him αὐτοῦ (autou) Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive Masculine 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 846: He, she, it, they, them, same. From the particle au; the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons. all things πάντα (panta) Adjective - Nominative Neuter Plural Strong's Greek 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole. were made, ἐγένετο (egeneto) Verb - Aorist Indicative Middle - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 1096: A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be, i.e. to become, used with great latitude. In the beginning בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ) Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part God אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm) Noun - masculine plural Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God created בָּרָ֣א (bā·rā) Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 1254: 1) to create, shape, form 1a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject) 1a1) of heaven and earth 1a2) of individual man 1a3) of new conditions and circumstances 1a4) of transformations 1b) (Niphal) to be created 1b1) of heaven and earth 1b2) of birth 1b3) of something new 1b4) of miracles 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to cut down 1c2) to cut out 2) to be fat 2a) (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat |
All English translations of the prologue in John’s Gospel published prior to 1611* (and many English translations since 1611) render autos “it,” not “he”. The Greek Lexicon validates the use and the Bibles published by trinitarians prior to 1611 is the evidence that those translators recognized and selected it as the best option.
* There is one exception: the Wycliffe translation. It was produced by translating from Latin, not from Greek.
Define if you mean some special creation or if you are asking in a general sense like "everything was created by God, including my shoes, because they lead to the initial creation through the chain of events".
If you mean the first one, then none I know of. If you mean the second one, then all languages were made by God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
So this rendering hasn't changed since Wycliffe. Interesting. I thought I could blame Willian Tyndale.
Why did I like your post because you said nothing of your own? But Quoted Psalam 110:1
Its my most favorite verse in the scripture, search my name and the use of that verse, why wouldn't I like it?
Do you hear yourself here?
I hadnt read this, if he feels this is false then instead of whining through the thread why did you not requote yourself bring it to my attention and David in NJ's and call it out to be adressed further?
I was urging you both to kiss and make up, not letting this thing get you so angry and defensive.
No applicable to me (at least for the most part) so I won't comment
I have noticed in the post temple Christian church that the triad evolved into the trinity doctrine. Ignatius was one of the first to believe Jesus created the universe, but Justin Martyr was the first to take the divine stoic logos and create Metatron as part of the Triad. Reading Justin, one cannot escape that Roman version of the Holy Spirit was not the first.
And we all know Polycarp didn't believe anything Cerinthus/Valentinus believed.
And we all know Polycarp didn't believe anything Cerinthus/Valentinus believed.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Colossians 1:15–17
“...but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”
Hebrews 1:2
The apostles were the first.
You liked the post because you liked what the translators of AMP said in parentheses, for clarification to the reader. They made it crystal clear that the Father is speaking to the Son of God the Messiah. You liked it bacause you believe what they said is true.
@David in NJ said repeatedly that it is not true; that it is false.
What does his amplification - what he asserts is the truth - look like? It looks like this -
The LORD (the pre-incarnate Jesus) says to my lord (King David).
So in his teaching, the Father did not say anything to the Son in verse 1. The Father isn’t the speaker and the Son isn’t the one spoken to. The pre-imcarnate Son said something to King David.
One of them is true and one of them is false. I say AMP is true.
Is the Father speaking to the Son (AMP) in the verse true or is the Son speaking to King David in the verse true?
The LORD said, LET US go down and confuse their speech, and God said, LET US make man in OUR own image. And Jesus (who is both God/the Word) came out from God (His God, the most high) the LORD having made Jesus both Lord and Christ (who was HID in God prior). Where we get, "The LORD said unto MY Lord sit thou at my right hand". Speaking of the resurrection.
I see Jesus Christ as part of that US of the LORD being made flesh (and so my Lord) as The Father made him.
He is still referred to as God, by the Father in Psalm 45:7 but he is made FOR US, certain things, like sin, that we might be the righteousness of God in him and made Lord and Christ, captain of our salvation, the wisdom of God etc etc.
All things could be anything in Greek, and it is talking about the Church. All were made not created at him. There are few words in Greek for the creation of something out of nothing, and
Lexicon :: Strong's G2936 - ktizō κτίζω
is not one of them.He is also the "the firstborn from the dead". Morelike, the first in rank. Protos doesn't mean first in Greek but means most important in rank; thus πρωτότοκος prototokos means the most important of those conceived from the dead, and he was. I don't if it is still true, but most people are up to his standards of courage. Does God need courage? That is a Greek god trait.
δι᾽ οὗ καὶ τοὺς αἰῶνας· ἐποίησεν through whose actions (Greek is genitive here) precedents or rather permanent precedents.
Easily so, and it has to do with the rules of the kingdom of God.
It originated with Valentinus
Fragment B
Fragment 7: Valentinus' Vision of the Word
In fragment seven, Valentinus had a dream which told him the word of God is Yahweh, but Jesus.
Last edited:
I’ll simplfy it for you. The post you liked is true or the post you liked is false.
I liked your post, what are trying to imply?
I liked it openly, I already said so, what is your problem concerning pressing the point home, its my favorite verse of all scripture, so I liked it and you are harrassing me for some reason concerning this verse for whatever reason I cannot understand, so please explain.
Lots of people might disagree with something I like, if they want to further discuss it we are here.
But as far as God and Christ go, they tell us very specifically God made Jesus both Lord and Christ
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
How can that be if Jesus is LORD and not Lord, well, because the Word was made so by the God who said, LET US (and is speaking to someone that is HID from us) and here we can see that was Jesus Christ
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Regardless of that He is adressed as God by the Father (revealing who that "LET US" is)
Heb 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Heb 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
God is calling this one God, God THY GOD, as the head of Christ IS God, His Father is the Most High.
But when Jesus ascended he went to His God and Our God and His Father and our Father, and for us (because of God the Father has done for us by Jesus Christ) we have one God, even the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Every knee shall bow every tongue confess Jesus is Lord
Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Ephes 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ephes 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Similar threads
