you did not read properly read again I say CLEARLY no secret coming for christ. Ill stop there, I think you have me confused with someone else
Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Yes that is what I quoted you as saying " no secret coming".
How would you be someone else?
The pretrib rapture is not a secret coming, so we both agree.
I am only centering on what Jesus said.
Not an assumption of what someone thinks I believe.
I believe if Jesus said it, I need to embrace it.
Postribs do not begin to embrace what Jesus said.
They mainly omit it.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped
Remember the "one coming declaration of postribs?
They will tell you that passage is exactly the same as this:
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
SMH
PLAIN BIZARRE
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped
Remember the "one coming declaration of postribs?
They will tell you that passage is exactly the same as this:
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
SMH
PLAIN BIZARRE
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
You do make a lot of assumptions about me but what you wrote about me is wrong. If you would just read PROPERLY what I wrote you would see me differently. My truth is not my own but the words written in the bible in proper context. You have put me in a category "postribber" in your mind. You have judged me unjustly. I suspect you barely read anything I wrote, if you had you would not have made all these suppositions on things I supposedly sais and I know I did not.
If you do have one specific question I can answer but please read the answers I give if you may do so we can discuss. I do not like to argue. If this if what you want I wont bite but I am always willing to discuss for now one item at a time. I ask you make your defence based in scripture ( YES USE VERSES !!)
this is what you wrote to me;
""This is where you divert from the actual written word and trust your assumptions.
Your key assumption is "secret coming"
And proceed to make your case off of an assumption, and ACTUALLY USE OMISSIONS as if you are going to "prove" your doctrine that YOU ADMIT are off of omissions.
The bible written Word is what I am going by.""
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Taken
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
What part are you addressing?
Margaret was a postribber.
She believed inspite of scripture that the church needed to go through the trib for cleansing.
( I did research on it, because I saw how postribbers actually edited out her position.
Her dream was pretrib rapture. Her postrib mind could not process it.)
My pretrib position is based off of scripture.
Postribbers reference as their main pillar dead ancient men as if they were infallible.
Those people with the postrib rapture belief are hard to shake off of that position based on men rather that the bible.
Postribs celebrate those dead men.and base their doctrine off of men.
Then accuse their opponent of following men.
Bizarre
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE:
"You do not have any verses to prove what you say, none.
Look I do not present a "doctrine" I present scripture, ill say the same to you as I said to taken this morning.
rebuilder, the words of Christ are very clear and should not be denied, either you believe what jesus said or you do not there is no middle ground;
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
Mat 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other..""
You go by scripture?
Then why do you post a verse that says angels, not Jesus, gather saints in heaven and not earth?
Are you aware we agree that Jesus returns postrib?
What we disagree on is the fact of the 3 future comings IN SCRIPTURE. NOT SOMEBODY'S BELIEF.
Your verse supports PRETRIB RAPTURE PERFECTLY.
I 100% believe after the trib , we, having been in heaven For 7 years, will be gathered in heaven, exactly as your verse says, and we will mount the white horses as revelation 19 has depicted, in heaven. We mount white horses on the second coming having been raptured 7 years earlier as your verse depicts
Yes...angels gather in heaven..
Again thank you for pointing out the pretrib passage.
Quote:
"rebuilder, the words of Christ are very clear and should not be denied, either you believe what jesus said or you do not there is no middle ground;"
Yes yes yes ... A Million amens to that!!!!!
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
DURING ?
* First 7 of 21 Judgements…
* “Wrath of the Lamb, sent down from Heaven UPON the inhabitants of the Earth.”
*** “The Converted” IN Christ, Baptized by the Lamb of God, Not present ON Earth..
THEY, Notably (ignored by YOU) Already Delivered FROM the Wrath.
Twisted False Conclusion…
“EVERYONE” is Inclusive, by YOUR Teaching;
* YOU have ZERO “non believers” coming into Belief, During the Trib.
* YOU have “ALL Believers, Converted Believers and Non-Believers Going THROUGH” the Trib.
It appears quite evident, YOUR Teaching, completely IGNORES the BASIC Character OF God, When Trying to Carnally Support your position…
Deut 32
[4] He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Prior to The Great Trib… UPON the Earth…
Gods JUSTICE Prevails…
* THE JUSTIFIED Are Escaped, Removed, Delivered FROM the Face of the Earth.
( nothing NEW. You Should have Learned THAT, During Gods First Great Tribulation UPON the Earth!)
Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
Gods JUST Warning…another Great Tribulation sent Down from Heaven upon the Earth.
Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Gods JUSTICE:
Again [As in Justified Noah’s day) the JUSTIFIED SHALL be Lift UP Above the Earth.
1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Not a mystery… The Clouds ARE ABOVE The Earth!!
Not a mystery… They ON Earth … Have NOT been Made JUSTIFIED, and WILL Remain ON Earth… TO BE SUBJECT TO “ONE or ALL” of the Series of 21 Judgements Sent Down From Heaven UPON the inhabitants OF the Earth”!
Not a mystery… The 144.,000 ARE among Gods First Fruits…
* Justified long Ago.
* No longer Inhabitants OF this Earth.
* Sent to Earth, TO a specific Mountain, and THEY the ONLY Men ON Earth, Baring the Physical, Visible MARK of Gods SEAL.
* Their Mission of Righteous Service Unto God IS Exclusive … TO Fulfill Gods PROMISE TO SAVE Gods People “ISRAEL”.
Not a mystery… Gods JUSTICE;
ANYONE Jew or Gentile, ALIVE UPON the Earth…During the Great Trib…
* “Not Justified”,
* “Not baring Satan’s Mark”
* “Not having Heard of God”
* “Not having Heard of Gods Word”
** “ARE GIVEN Gods Gift of Faith …
TO, become Made Justified, OR IGNORE / REJECT Gods Offering!”
After Gods Word is Taught in the World.
After the World is Warned..
When the Tribulations from Heaven Begin…
After the 7 Seal Judgements…
After the World is Beginning to Experience Tribulations of The Wrath of the Lamb.
After the Jews are Taught from their OWN kinsmen About Christ the Lord Jesus,
After the Woes of The Devils Wrath,
The continuing increase of Trumps Judgements.
After The fullness of the 7 Trumps judgements…
** THEN DOES ONE holy angel Servant of God…PREACH to THE WHOLE World, All men (Void) of Satan’s MARK, remaining Alive upon the Earth…
“THE WORD of God”…that They can freely Accept, Believe, or freely Reject.
CONTRARY to your Teaching After the 7 Seals Judgements and 7 Trump Judgements, DURING The Trib…Gods Gift of Faith, Justification and Salvation IS Still Offered to men Alive upon the Earth.
Rev 14:
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
CONTRARY to YOUR teaching … men who come INTO Belief during the Trib, and Remain Mortally Alive…
Shall Repopulate the Earth of mortals for generations, up to 1,000 years, Void of All devils influence, With their KING (Lord Jesus) KING of all Nations kings, He, KING, occupying His Kingdom (ie. His inherited Promised Land, sitting on His inherited Everlasting “king Davids”, THRONE…. And WITH He, KING in His Kingdom ARE His holy Angel servants and His holy risen, glorified Marked Sealed Saints…His Church.
You have learned Half Truths… and Preach Deception, BECAUSE you Ignore the WHOLE Truths..and Gods Applicability Thereof the WHOLE Truths
God is Just. Gods Way IS Righteous. God by, through, of His JUST and Righteous WAYS TO INCLUDE, SAVE, WHOM And WHEN (before, during, after the great Tribulation), IS Exclusively Accordingly to Gods Authority and Pleasure…
Whether or Not IF it is your knowledge, your understanding, your liking or your corrupt teaching.
Rom 9:
[15] For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Glory to God,
Taken
Davy
Well-Known Member
I had to edit your above post because you failed to separate it properly...
Taken Said:
"Rev 7:
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Nothing funny about you again being pridefully arrogantly wrong."
____________________________________________________________________________
I say:
What is actually funny... is that you show you do not know the Scriptures there that you tried... to use to prove your point.
That vision of the Rev.7 "great multitude" Apostle John is shown having come out... of "great tribulation" DOES NOT MEAN CONVERTS DURING THE TRIB. That vision John is being shown is about AFTERWARDS when Christ had already returned and they were standing at His Throne in His future Kingdom.
There is nothing written there in Rev.7 that claims that "great multitude" only converted to Jesus DURING the trib.
But that they will be converts DURING the trib and thus called 'tribulation saints' by the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTORS, that... is where YOU got your idea. There is NO specific 'tribulation saints' idea written in God's Word. How do I know that?
It is because it is shown in the Old Testament prophets, that at the end, whatever one's belief is, that is what they will remain in all the way... up to the day of Christ's future return. That is the following type Bible Scripture is given...
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
KJV
That word "wail" above in the Greek means to beat the chest in grief. Do you really think that's about Christ's servants? No, it's about the wicked and unbelieving when they see Jesus on that day.
Zech 12:10-14
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
KJV
That above is about the UNBELIEVING JEWS that when Jesus appears, they will wail for Him like a long lost son, and they will be in shame, even as Jesus showed in Luke 23 with what those deceived Jews will say about "Blessed are the barren...". The 'barren' in that parable represent those who remain in Christ as a symbolic "chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus to return.
In Romans 11, Apostle Paul also taught how God has spiritually blinded the majority of the Jews during this present world time, and for those in Christ to NOT be conceited in wrongly thinking God has forgotten them. Because Paul said when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, their spiritual blindness away from The Gospel will be removed, and they will then... convert to Jesus WHEN THEY SEE HIM COMING IN THE CLOUDS.
Taken Said:
"Rev 7:
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Nothing funny about you again being pridefully arrogantly wrong."
____________________________________________________________________________
I say:
What is actually funny... is that you show you do not know the Scriptures there that you tried... to use to prove your point.
That vision of the Rev.7 "great multitude" Apostle John is shown having come out... of "great tribulation" DOES NOT MEAN CONVERTS DURING THE TRIB. That vision John is being shown is about AFTERWARDS when Christ had already returned and they were standing at His Throne in His future Kingdom.
There is nothing written there in Rev.7 that claims that "great multitude" only converted to Jesus DURING the trib.
But that they will be converts DURING the trib and thus called 'tribulation saints' by the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTORS, that... is where YOU got your idea. There is NO specific 'tribulation saints' idea written in God's Word. How do I know that?
It is because it is shown in the Old Testament prophets, that at the end, whatever one's belief is, that is what they will remain in all the way... up to the day of Christ's future return. That is the following type Bible Scripture is given...
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
KJV
That word "wail" above in the Greek means to beat the chest in grief. Do you really think that's about Christ's servants? No, it's about the wicked and unbelieving when they see Jesus on that day.
Zech 12:10-14
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
KJV
That above is about the UNBELIEVING JEWS that when Jesus appears, they will wail for Him like a long lost son, and they will be in shame, even as Jesus showed in Luke 23 with what those deceived Jews will say about "Blessed are the barren...". The 'barren' in that parable represent those who remain in Christ as a symbolic "chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus to return.
In Romans 11, Apostle Paul also taught how God has spiritually blinded the majority of the Jews during this present world time, and for those in Christ to NOT be conceited in wrongly thinking God has forgotten them. Because Paul said when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, their spiritual blindness away from The Gospel will be removed, and they will then... convert to Jesus WHEN THEY SEE HIM COMING IN THE CLOUDS.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Every postribber omits the AC kills all refusing the mark.
That is a mathematical formula.
The barrel of dogs and cats.
All the cats are beheaded.
Postribbers: " the cats are still in the barrel. Let's examine this "
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
1) the AC kills all refusing the mark.
2) bingo...we see the great multitude THAT WERE MARTYRED in heaven as your verse INDICATES.
3) They are in fact those that were left behind AFTER THE PRETRIB RATURE (The ones taken and left in the pretrib rapture depicted in mat 24)...left behind , refuse the mark, martyred, and go to heaven during the gt
4) no postrib can unpack all the parallel verses.
Watch what ya'll do with the "ones taken/ left" in mat 24.
You can not possibly unpack it.
Notice every one of you takes that dynamic, and since you have nowhere to go with it scripturally, you apply strange logic and insist half the world is wicked and half righteous.
But it gets worse, ...then you insist that Jesus gathers the wicked half of earth's population BEFORE THE FLOOD.
PSSSSSSST....there never will be a time when earth's population is half wicked and half righteous.
Can we say busted?????????
Davy
Well-Known Member
Lot of canon fodder in your post. I'm not going to address every point, so you're wasting your time if you think you can just flop all this down as Biblical proof for your point, when it is not.
That above point in 'red' of course is NOT WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD. It is a MAN-MADE idea, the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY that began in 1830's Great Britain by John Darby. Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His future coming will be AFTER... the tribulation when He comes to gather His saints.
So you're not starting off on the right foot here already.
Actually, it's the FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTORS who wrongly teach that there are NO believers on Christ going through the "great tribulation", because THEY say all believers are raptured out prior to the trib. That means ONLY non-believers are Left-behind, in THEIR TWISTED VIEW. And the fact that I am having to REMIND you of this, when you make such strong claim about being of the 1st ones that will be TAKEN, shows your mind just can't keep focus.
That is a STUPID STATEMENT that you have absolutely NO proof of. It is a VAIN attempt at character assassination where you HOPE the Biblically illiterate who read this will believe what you say. But what you have actually done by that to your OWN CREDIBILITY and CHARACTER is to throw it in the gutter with the serpents.
GOD and His Son Jesus Christ definitely is my ROCK. But your character and lies reveal that at present you are following the false 'rock'...
Deut 32:31
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
KJV
Once again, you keep making untrue statements as if... they are written, BUT you offer no actual Bible Scripture proof. You are just pushing hot air, and that's all.
Once again, you follow the false pre-trib rapture charlatans who don't have a clue of what God's Word actually teaches as written. The ark of Noah was upon the waters of the flood for 150 days, PRESERVED THROUGH THE TRIBULATION OF THAT FLOOD, and God is Who even closed and sealed the door of the ark for Noah and his! What do you think that represents for the last days of the coming "great tribulation"? It means Jesus Christ is our ARK for the trib, and that He SEALS His servants in prep to GO THROUGH IT! And like He said, He ain't coming to get us until AFTER the tribulation.
The rest of your post is nothing but a BUTCHERING OF GOD'S WORD to TRY and use only the verses that you THINK support a false pre-trib rapture theory. Doing that is a SIN against God's written Word, but those with the greater sin are those charlatans who taught... you to do that to God's Word.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Noah was gathered into the Ark, which is a type of heaven, before the flood, and Noah rose via those flood waters over a mile into the sky (depicting the pretrib rapture) Noah was over a mile into the heavens during the flood ,way above the Earth, just like in the pre Tribulation rapture, and then Noah returned after the flood, (after the tribulation), and set up a new kingdom
Wow, thanks for reminding me!!
it's a beautiful depiction of the pre tribulation rapture.
The church high above the earth during the trib!!!
Amen to your pretrib teaching.
Taken
Well-Known Member
No clue what DOCTORS YOU have listened to.
I have NEVER made such a Claim.
I do NOT believe, promote or Claim such nonsense.
You obviously ARE unaware of the Differences MEANINGS Between…specific Words…
Christ-IAN… simply means FOLLOW-ER.
Lesson- Judas WAS a Follower- and STOPPED
Lesson-Many Jews WERE Followers- and STOPPED
Lesson-Many Gentiles WERE / ARE Followers- and STOP
Lesson-Many Gentiles ARE Followers-BUT NOT Believers)
FOR (Umpteen reasons… Parents force, spouse goes along to appease spouse, Community Clout, instant “contact list” to solicit personal business contracts, etc.)
Christ-IAN “implies” Believer BUT Does NOT mean Believer.
BELIEVER- IS Is Vague, in discussions.
Believer… IN WHAT?
IN Christian-ITY?
IN A higher Power?
IN An Invisible SUPREME Power?
IN A Heavenly Creator?
IN A Heavenly Maker?
IN A Supreme God Above ALL Things?
CREATOR / MAKER- IS Vague in discussions.
Differences?
Between Creator AND Maker?
Creators… name, titles?
Makers…name, titles?
Differences Between Simple Words
CREATED vs MADE
IS vs AS…(Corrupt in conversations)
TERRESTRIAL vs CELESTIAL
LIFE vs DEATH (physical/ mortal vs spiritual)
100% This and That LOL
WHOLE vs PARTIAL
COMMITTED vs NOT-COMMITTED
Details Matter.
Intending to have “a spiritual conversation” with undefined, wishy washy terms “iS a FAIL.”
LOL. I have Never made such a claim.
I have Detailed Expressly;
“BELIEVERS” WILL “miss the Rapture, Be Left Behind”, AND WHY, and SOME men DURING the Trib, WILL come INTO Belief, and Belief IN WHAT, and WHAT WILL become of THEM!”
When I MAKE a claim Pertaining TO ME specific… it HAS nothing to do with, An other mans beliefs, understanding, or my Carnal Minded “Thinking or Belief” and EVERYTHING TO DO WITH , MY Spiritual Choices, and MY TRUST IN a Spiritual Lord God Almighty IS True, Just and Faithful.
You should Examine your OWN Standing, before you pretend to be A spokesman, an expert, a gaslighter for an others Standing.
Your “you, you, you” but NOT “me, me. me”,
Is “accounted unto you”, “your record in Gods Books” for your own bragging and pride.
Last edited:
Taken
Well-Known Member
Precisely. Noah was Lift up IN the clouds.
LOL
Ecc. 1-9. Nothing new.
Amen
Glory to God,
Taken
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
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