How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Aunty Jane]

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?

www.gotquestions.org

- CARM

The following are some of the many bad “translations” offered by the Watchtower Bible Tract Society’s translation of the Bible known as the New World Transla...

carm.org

Is the NWT a valid Bible translation?

Again you provide the opinions of those who accept your own chosen scholars...who said they were correct...? Themselves and you... because you agree with them? How is that evidence?

That is tantamount to asking the Pharisees what they though of Jesus interpretation of Scripture....?
You think they offered an unbiased opinion? Do you think you do?

Have you ever studied Scripture with an open mind? Or did you swallow the party line of the majority thinking that they must be right? When has that ever proven to be true? God has always been about quality, not quantity.

You cannot even read Greek, so your personal studies are not relevant.

All I have is your word that you can.....how do I know you’re not just another fake bragging about credentials that he doesn’t have? You have shown no evidence of your Greek speaking ability....

First you wanted "ho theos", then you wanted the capital G, now you want Jesus saying He is a part of a triune godhead and you want to ignore the teachings of His apostles... typical with Jehovists. Always some weird requirements, inventions and limitations.

Since it is your belief that Jesus is all of those things, it’s not wrong to ask for your evidence.....is it?
If you could provide such evidence there could be no argument...but since it’s not forthcoming, your excuses are a little lame.

If your beliefs cannot be substantiated by a direct unequivocal statement, from either God or his Christ, then what is left but conjecture, misinterpretation, mistranslation and misinformation....the devil’s playground.

We already know that he has the majority of mankind eating spiritual poison out of his hand, pretending to be what he is not. (2 Cor 11:14-15; 2 Cor 4:3-4)

Do you affirm or reject that Jesus died on the cross?

Since the instrument of Christ’s death was never important, what does it matter what shape it was? The Romans had several configurations of their torture stakes, called in the Bible a “stauros” ....so what is the definition of this word in the Bible?

“σταυρός staurós, stow-ros'; from the base of G2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment)” (Strongs)

The configuration of the execution stake upon which Christ gave his life is not stated, and doesn’t need to be. It is inconsequential. Why?
Because it was Christ’s death that paid for man’s sins, which would have held up if even he had been stoned or beheaded or even hanged....

As the Law of God stated that his people were not to make images of anything...let alone the image of the instrument used to torture someone we love to death....how weird would it be if Christ was hanged or shot through with arrows? Would the churches be adorned with images of gallows ....or bows and arrows...? The concept is bizarre to say the least....yet these crosses adorn buildings, people, shrines and alters around the world. No one seems to see the inappropriateness of such a thing....

 

[Brakelite]

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

In the beginning of what? John doesn't tell us.

I don't know what version you're using but that's not what that verse says or means
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Mmm. His version is a clever twist... And he said it wasn't a trick question!

 

[Brakelite]

Philippians 2:6 “who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped”

Not a trick question - who others in your Bible knowledge have done this?

None else, according to the actual true text, has ever been equal to God. However, Satan is in the process of attempting the opposite using human proxies.

 

[Brakelite]

Good idea....

I’ll post this one separately as there is a bit to say about it for those who might be interested.....

Stephen had just given the Jewish Leaders a dressing down which made them extremely angry.

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.” Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him.“

So what was the outcome?

“But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
What did Stephen see? He was about to be martyred....so God, by means of his Holy Spirit, gave Stephen a wonderful vision....where he saw “the glory of God” and Jesus standing at his right hand.

“But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him.”

It was too much for them to bear.....so they stopped up their ears and led him to his death....
How many of God’s prophets had they silenced in their long and sorry history? The truth hurts.

“Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Why would Stephen appeal to Jesus to receive his spirit? What was the “spirit” that Stephen entrusted to his Lord Jesus? As the one he knew was given the power of the resurrection, Stephen entrusted Jesus to restore his life. Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, so a resurrection is what he expected.....he would sleep in death until Christ called him to heaven at a future time.....as a member of his “body”. His reward for faithfulness to death.

Interestingly, Saul presided over the execution as one of the main drivers of persecution heaped upon Christ’s disciples’.
His encounter with the risen Jesus was to come...

“And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.” (ESV)

Why did he ask God not to hold this sin against them?.....like Jesus, he knew that many of his persecutors were ignorant and lacked knowledge, swept away by the emotions of the moment....misled by their corrupt leadership.
As Jesus had asked his God and Father to forgive the Roman soldiers for their part in his death, so Stephen, in agreement with Christ’s teachings (Matt 5:43-44) he knew that to forgive was better that expressing vengeance upon these ones, who might yet come to Christ, as we see many Jews did after Peter preached to them. (Acts 2:29-38)

It's a pity that you missed the real reason the Pharisees block their ears and stoned Stephen. There reacted when he said, I see Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Do you not understand the the significance of being at the Sovereign's right hand?

 

[Hiddenthings]

None else, according to the actual true text, has ever been equal to God. However, Satan is in the process of attempting the opposite using human proxies.

When I said "done this" I meant, who has endeavored to grasp at equality with God. As I said it wasn't a trick question.

 

[Brakelite]

QUESTION

​

Is the king of Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 referring to Satan?​

ANSWER

At first glance, the prophecy in Ezekiel 28:11–19 seems to refer to a human king. The city of Tyre was the recipient of some of the strongest prophetic condemnations in the Bible (Isaiah 23:1–18; Jeremiah 25:22; 27:1–11; Ezekiel 26:1– 28:19; Joel 3:4–8; Amos 1:9, 10). Tyre was known for building its wealth by exploiting its neighbors. Ancient writers referred to Tyre as a city filled with unscrupulous merchants. Tyre was a center of religious idolatry and sexual immorality. The biblical prophets rebuked Tyre for its pride brought on by its great wealth and strategic location. Ezekiel 28:11–19 seems to be a particularly strong indictment against the king of Tyre in the prophet Ezekiel’s day, rebuking the king for his insatiable pride and greed.

However, some of the descriptions in Ezekiel 28:11–19 go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub who covers” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.” Therefore, most Bible interpreters believe that Ezekiel 28:11–19 is a dual prophecy, comparing the pride of the king of Tyre to the pride of Satan. Some propose that the king of Tyre was actually possessed by Satan, making the link between the two even more powerful and applicable.

Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12–13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase “guardian cherub” possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who “guarded” God’s presence. Pride led to Satan’s fall. Rather than give God the glory for creating him so beautifully, Satan took pride in himself, thinking that he himself was responsible for his exalted status. Satan’s rebellion resulted in God casting Satan from His presence and will, eventually, result in God condemning Satan to the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:10).

Like Satan, the human king of Tyre was prideful. Rather than recognize God’s sovereignty, the king of Tyre attributed Tyre’s riches to his own wisdom and strength. Not satisfied with his extravagant position, the king of Tyre sought more and more, resulting in Tyre taking advantage of other nations, expanding its own wealth at the expense of others. But just as Satan’s pride led to his fall and will eventually lead to his eternal destruction, so will the city of Tyre lose its wealth, power, and status. Ezekiel’s prophecy of Tyre’s total destruction was fulfilled partially by Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 29:17–21) and ultimately by Alexander the Great.
Source: Got Questions

There is a more specific answer to the identity of the covering cherub mentioned in Ezekiel in relation to the king of Tyre. As most would be aware, the tabernacle that most had built in the wilderness according to Hebrews, was a copy of the temple in heaven (made without hands) , including the furniture and and rituals etc, all being types of actual items and processes that were carried on in heaven that contributed to our salvation. The cross of Calvary however, was "outside the tabernacle/camp" just as Calvary was outside the gate of Jerusalem. Christs sacrifice took place on earth, not in heaven. But I digress. The ark of the covenant represented the throne of God, the Most Holy Place, the throne room. Daniel 7 confirms that idea several times when speaking of the antitypical day of atonement. Daniel mentions also a time, a specific future event when the Son of Man would be accompanied into that throne room in order to receive His kingdom... The reward for His sacrifice.
The ark however, aside from having the law of God encapsulated within, representing God's governmental authority, was also adorned with two angels. Not by accident. They were covering cherubs. They were especially chosen angels, the highest in rank as was Lucifer, whose responsibility it was to guard the throne against usurpation, and the law against transgression.
“18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. 22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. ”
Exodus 25:18-22 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

That's the only place in Scripture where there is a description of cherubim that cover. The Bible interprets itself. And one of those cherubim who previously had walked up and down upon the stones of fire chose to rebel, found himself in Eden, and will in the end be destroyed in the sight of all the earth.

 

[Brakelite]

When I said "done this" I meant, who has endeavored to grasp at equality with God. As I said it wasn't a trick question.

Yeah it is a trick question when you quote what purports to be Scripture but is a false translation, and then ask me to validate the false idea that Philippians is speaking about someone who has attempted to grasp equality with God. There is one who is doing that Satan, but you didn't believe in him so we'll not go there.

 

[GodsGrace]

In the beginning of what? John doesn't tell us.

So I guess we can't know what happened BEFORE the BEGINNING.
That solves the entire problem !

There could be 10 gods for all we know.
God just chose not to reveal them to us.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Yeah it is a trick question when you quote what purports to be Scripture but is a false translation,

You can provide your translation if you want...it matters not to me!

and then ask me to validate the false idea that Philippians is speaking about someone who has attempted to grasp equality with God.

Then show me what you think it means.

There is one who is doing that Satan, but you didn't believe in him so we'll not go there.

This is diverting away from Phil 2 but happy to discuss this anytime!

 

[Hiddenthings]

That's the only place in Scripture where there is a description of cherubim that cover. The Bible interprets itself. And one of those cherubim who previously had walked up and down upon the stones of fire chose to rebel, found himself in Eden, and will in the end be destroyed in the sight of all the earth.

I’m looking for your understanding of how this lament relates to the King of Tyre, and, like RLT, you are unable to provide it. It’s as if you have taken a fictitious story and superimposed it onto Ezekiel 28, blinding you to its true meaning.

28:11 The word of the Lord came to me: 28:12 “Son of man, sing a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says Eze 28:11–12.

You and RLT do not want to hear what the Sovereign Lord has to say but only the traditions you have been taught. It's a rerun of Mark 7 allover.

 

[HealthyShape]

Again you provide the opinions of those who accept your own chosen scholars...who said they were correct...? Themselves and you... because you agree with them? How is that evidence?

That is tantamount to asking the Pharisees what they though of Jesus interpretation of Scripture....?
You think they offered an unbiased opinion? Do you think you do?

Have you ever studied Scripture with an open mind? Or did you swallow the party line of the majority thinking that they must be right? When has that ever proven to be true? God has always been about quality, not quantity.

All I have is your word that you can.....how do I know you’re not just another fake bragging about credentials that he doesn’t have? You have shown no evidence of your Greek speaking ability....

Since it is your belief that Jesus is all of those things, it’s not wrong to ask for your evidence.....is it?
If you could provide such evidence there could be no argument...but since it’s not forthcoming, your excuses are a little lame.

If your beliefs cannot be substantiated by a direct unequivocal statement, from either God or his Christ, then what is left but conjecture, misinterpretation, mistranslation and misinformation....the devil’s playground.

We already know that he has the majority of mankind eating spiritual poison out of his hand, pretending to be what he is not. (2 Cor 11:14-15; 2 Cor 4:3-4)

Since the instrument of Christ’s death was never important, what does it matter what shape it was? The Romans had several configurations of their torture stakes, called in the Bible a “stauros” ....so what is the definition of this word in the Bible?

“σταυρός staurós, stow-ros'; from the base of G2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment)” (Strongs)

The configuration of the execution stake upon which Christ gave his life is not stated, and doesn’t need to be. It is inconsequential. Why?
Because it was Christ’s death that paid for man’s sins, which would have held up if even he had been stoned or beheaded or even hanged....

As the Law of God stated that his people were not to make images of anything...let alone the image of the instrument used to torture someone we love to death....how weird would it be if Christ was hanged or shot through with arrows? Would the churches be adorned with images of gallows ....or bows and arrows...? The concept is bizarre to say the least....yet these crosses adorn buildings, people, shrines and alters around the world. No one seems to see the inappropriateness of such a thing....

More Jehovist nonsense and tons of useless rhetorical questions. All the information has already been provided to you. I do not need to repeat myself or to argue about "opinions" forever. If you could understand Greek, we could move further, but you can't.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is a lot to address, but all of it is important...so here goes....


“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.” (Rev 1:1-2 ESV)

Well it is a Revelation that God gave to Jesus, to convey to his apostle John, by means of an angel.....
There are four individuals in this chain of command....not five.

Why does one part of the same God need to give information to the other supposedly equal part of himself, to convey to a human, through an angel, what will take place in the future? Jesus is in heaven at this point.

And If Jesus in heaven can say.....to the angel of the Philadelphian congregation....
“The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.” (Rev 3:12 ESV)

Can you tell me how God has a God even in heaven.....? And Jesus has a “new name”....so, who gave that new name to him? It went with attaining an exalted position, which is very confusing if he is already “God”....
“Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name”. (Phil 2:9 ESV)
How does one part of an equal God, “exalt” another part of himself? How does he attain a name that is above all, others when he already has such a name? (Psalm 83:18)

In so many parts of the Christian Scriptures, when God and his son are mentioned together, the Holy Spirit, a supposedly equal third party in the triune God, is missing? (Like all those quoted above)

And in John 17:3....in prayer to his Father in heaven, Jesus said....
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (ESV)
Speaking of this knowledge as a salvation issue, why don’t we have to equally “know” the Holy Spirit”?

Your trinity poses more questions than it answers....all of which are completely illogical.

It might be that it is so illogical and unscriptural that no one has yet convinced me of its authenticity.
I have studied this subject thoroughly and there is only one logical conclusion.....there is only one true God and Jesus is his servant and High Priest. (Heb 3:1; Acts 4:27, 30)

I'm sorry you don't understand God Aunty Jane.
And, unfortunately, YOU don't get to describe Christianity...
nor does Charles Russell.

You see, if you want to define yourself as Christian, you MUST accept Christian tenets...
otherwise you simply are not Christian.

It's kind of like saying you're a yellow Chinese person but you're white and was born in San Francisco by true American parents. It means something to be a yellow Chinese person. It DEFINES you.

And the fact that monotheism forbids the worship of more than one God. (Deut 6:4)

How does “one God” manifest in three separate personages who can talk to one another, have one part that prays to the other, can have separate wills to one another, can know things that the others don’t, and be in three different places at the same time? Only Hudini could wriggle out of those questions.

Could it be that the devil, through his agencies has created another “god” that slipped in when the church went astray in the early centuries? It was foretold by Jesus and his apostles that this would happen.....did no one notice the complete departures from Christ’s teachings? How could they when this “church” forbade the reading of Scripture by anyone other than its own priests....?

It’s sordid history proves that Christ was never in that “church”.... (Matt 7:21-23) and yet the majority accept its warped doctrines.

Jesus said that there would be “wheat” in the world, but that the “weeds” would try to choke them out....and isn’t that what we have seen? In the confused mess that is Christendom, who can you believe?...the ones who trust Scripture, not “the church’s” muddled interpretation of it.

In the Jewish religion, there was only “one God”. (capital “G”) Did Thomas really call Jesus his “God”, in contradiction to all the other apostles who declared.....

“....we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (1 Cor 8:4-6 ESV)

Their “one God” is identified as “the Father”....and their “Lord” is Jesus Christ.
Does the title “Lord” make Jesus “God”?

Calling Jesus “theos” was not calling him “God” but declaring his divinity. They knew he was the divine son of God......and “theos” does not just mean God with a capital “G”. The Bible called many divinely appointed ones “gods”. (John 10:31-36) But what did Jesus call himself?

Others might be interested in debating whether or not Jesus is God....
As I've stated - I am not.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yahweh's name is used before the prophecy.

Not in Greek.

 

[GodsGrace]

And there is the problem, right there....if you don’t know the difference between “deity” and “divinity”, you will not see that there is a very important difference.

Strongs Concordance gives its primary definition of “theos” (god) as...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”.

The word itself can be translated in different ways, with context determining the correct meaning.
Since God himself through Jesus, uses this word to describe human judges in Israel, it is clear that Thomas did not mean what is translated in most trinitarian based Bibles, for obvious reasons.

He did not consider Jesus as his “God” in that sense, but in accord with the rest of Scripture and through a Jewish lens, rather than coloured by Christendom’s skewed doctrines, he acknowledged Christ’s divinity....as one “sent” by his God, Yahweh. (John 17:3)


Yes, as “the Word” he was at his Father’s side since his creation. (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) All creation came “through” him, but not “from” him.

That is exactly what “monogenes” means...an “only child”. He was “unique” among the many “sons of God” mentioned in the Scriptures. He was the “firstborn of ALL creation” according to Paul. (Col 1:15-17) All creation came into existence “through” the son. So yes, he existed long before anything or anyone else.
He is the only direct creation of his God and Father....that makes him unique.....but it doesn’t make him God.

Yes, Jesus was raised by his God who was in heaven whilst he was still on earth.....he did not raise himself.

I believe that most people fail to understand what he was actually saying .....
What was “the temple” that he would raise up in three days?....what definition fits all other Scripture?

It was “the temple of his body”....he was referring to something that was not obvious, and that they didn’t understand?

They were talking about the literal temple but he was talking about his “body”....not his literal body because Jesus wasn’t raised in the body he sacrificed....he was to be raised in a spiritual body....one that could “appear” to his disciples, as he did after his resurrection....they didn’t always recognise him, until he did something familiar, or as in the case of the doubting Thomas, appeared in a body with the marks of his execution.

At other times no mention was made of them.....and don’t we have to ask if those resurrected prior to Jesus were cured of the thing that killed them, why would God raise his son in a battered and beaten body with gaping wounds on his hands and feet, not to mention the damage caused by the crown of thorns that dug into his head and the flogging they gave him that tore his flesh into ribbons....

The “body of Christ” could only begin to be gathered after his resurrection....which took place shortly after his ascension.....at Pentecost his body was identified.....his elect are his body...God’s temple to house his Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 3:16-17) That was the temple he spoke about.

God can give his spirit to whomever he wishes. Jesus was a recipient at his baptism, and his disciples were baptized in Holy Spirit at Pentecost, allowing them too to heal the sick and raise the dead. (Matt 10:5-8)
God provided the power, but mere humans could do the miracles.

Since God is spoken of in Scripture as the King of Eternity, we have to understand what eternity means...
“Without beginning or end”....and since Jesus is said to be the “firstborn of all creation”, he must have had a beginning....and if he was “begotten”, which was long before his human birth, then the one who ‘begat’ him had to have existed before him. A father and son do not come into existence at the same time....


“Logos” can mean a “spokesman”...one who speaks for God...and this certainly fits the description of Jesus as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) ....if he is the mediator between two estraged parties, then he cannot be one of the parties.....

So my research has been thorough in obtaining all the available knowledge from the whole Bible, not just cherry picked bits of it backed up by suggestion and inference.

If there is not one unambiguous statement about something as important as the very nature of God, then what is left but a mountain of conjecture....? and a lot of contradicting Scripture....?

Yes Auntie Jane.
Again YOU are making up new definitions, changing the meaning of words.
The Body of Christ is not here now....
yadda yadda.
Creation came THROUGH HIM but not FROM HIM.
John doesn't seem to know what he was talking about.

All very interesting ideas.
That do not interest me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good idea....

I’ll post this one separately as there is a bit to say about it for those who might be interested.....

Stephen had just given the Jewish Leaders a dressing down which made them extremely angry.

“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.” Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him.“

So what was the outcome?

“But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
What did Stephen see? He was about to be martyred....so God, by means of his Holy Spirit, gave Stephen a wonderful vision....where he saw “the glory of God” and Jesus standing at his right hand.

“But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears and rushed together at him.”

It was too much for them to bear.....so they stopped up their ears and led him to his death....
How many of God’s prophets had they silenced in their long and sorry history? The truth hurts.

“Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Why would Stephen appeal to Jesus to receive his spirit? What was the “spirit” that Stephen entrusted to his Lord Jesus? As the one he knew was given the power of the resurrection, Stephen entrusted Jesus to restore his life. Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, so a resurrection is what he expected.....he would sleep in death until Christ called him to heaven at a future time.....as a member of his “body”. His reward for faithfulness to death.

Interestingly, Saul presided over the execution as one of the main drivers of persecution heaped upon Christ’s disciples’.
His encounter with the risen Jesus was to come...

“And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.” (ESV)

Why did he ask God not to hold this sin against them?.....like Jesus, he knew that many of his persecutors were ignorant and lacked knowledge, swept away by the emotions of the moment....misled by their corrupt leadership.
As Jesus had asked his God and Father to forgive the Roman soldiers for their part in his death, so Stephen, in agreement with Christ’s teachings (Matt 5:43-44) he knew that to forgive was better that expressing vengeance upon these ones, who might yet come to Christ, as we see many Jews did after Peter preached to them. (Acts 2:29-38)

Here is the part when Stephen was stoned:

Acts 7:56
56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

I would suppose that with all the studying you've done, you might understand what THE SON OF MAN means in scripture.

Or you could find out.

 

[Muna]

I've already let him know my thoughts on Ezekiel 28, I agree with the brief article I posted
Right there is where you butted in.
If you want to play 20 questions with him be my guest

I was just quoting you his MO

Thats what he does in otherwords, he will ask you questions until the cows come home, and have babies
and grandkids

He searches for where you cannot answer

After months of back and forth with @Aunty Jane ...

"Right there is where you had no answer."

I was just saying, "I'm feeling ya"

 

[Muna]

It's not that he couldn't answer because I know he can...that's the issue

You have a lively one on the hook this time.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You have a lively one on the hook this time.

Yeah - he's like the Barramundis I use to catch as a kid. He (and possibly you) doesn't know that a good question is better than a good answer.

 

[Hiddenthings]

A good answer often ends a discussion, but a good question can open the way for many more. I managed to ask twenty-two, which is a respectable effort. Now Brakelite and RLT are circling around the issue of Ezekiel 28, but none of them are asking the right questions.

 

[Muna]

Yeah - he's like the Barramundis I use to catch as a kid. He (and possibly you) doesn't know that a good question is better than a good answer.

Sure we do, when we find one of those