How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Hiddenthings]

Sure we do, when we find one of those

When you do please share!

 

[Aunty Jane]

More Jehovist nonsense and tons of useless rhetorical questions.

So dismissive, and yet you still can’t provide evidence for your beliefs. The questions were not rhetorical...but you just seem to have no answers.

All the information has already been provided to you.

I addressed your information, one quote at a time....yet you had no come back.....you had no defence, nor did you supply back up Scripture for your interpretation. There can’t be just one Scripture...they all have to agree in every respect...and a true Bible student would be able to always add to the discussion.
There does not have to be animosity.....just truth....and there can only be one truth.

I do not need to repeat myself or to argue about "opinions" forever. If you could understand Greek, we could move further, but you can't.

Who is asking you to repeat yourself? Opinions abound here in case you haven’t noticed.....Once the Scripture was evaluated and dismissed as misinterpreted I was inviting you to provide more evidence for your views....all you seem to be able to do is back peddle.

I may not be a Greek speaker, but I rely on those who are, as well as using a Concordance and an Interlinear to ascertain how various words are defined, and also how those words are used in other verses....I study how the Scriptures validate themselves, and how they tell one story, with no contradictions.

Aren’t we encouraged to defend our faith....? I haven’t seen you do that.

 

[Taken]

How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

In Brief -

Develop Meaning - Advance in maturity.
Maturity Meaning - Gaining bit by bit.
Trinity Meaning - Tri=3 / nity=united
Doctrine Meaning - Established Beliefs
Church Meaning -Jesus Followers / Believers
Followers…can Leave following / leave Believing.
Committed…Remain “With” God.
Committed…Kept “remaining With God”, by, through, of The Supreme Power of God.

How?
Gods Revealings - Bit by bit
Mans Discovery - Generation by Generation
Mans Hearing - Sharing
Gods Faith “gift”- for Hearing
Gods Blessings - for Sharing “His” revealings

What?
Lord God Almighty

What IS Lord?
Creators invisible Word.

What IS God?
Invisible Supreme Spirit Being.

What IS Almighty?
Invisible Supreme Power.

What does God DO?
“Creates” Things For His Pleasure.

What does Lord DO?
“Makes” Gods Creations Aware they Exist.
(And continue existing in a particular Form, or another Form,)

What does Gods Almighty Power DO?
Catalyst which Effects Gods Creations and Makings to Become From Non-Existent TO Exist.

First Revealing clues -
Gods desire revealed…
What was NOT … to Begin Existing.
Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

[2a]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

[2a]And the Spirit (POWER] of God moved upon the face of the waters.

[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gods desire / pleasure.
To CREATE…To MAKE…To SPEAK
And it Be So.

Habitats Created, Made, Exist.
Followed by, Inhabitants / Creatures Created, Made, Exist.

From the Beginning of Gods Desires, Ideas, Plans, and Pleasure… IS NOT Secret.

From the get go…
God Accredits, Claims, by His own Authority..
He Alone CREATES, MAKES…
BY, THROUGH, OF…
His WORD, WILL, POWER all He Desires.

It is Bit by Bit, Little by Little His Created and (continual MAKING / Maturing) of His Creatures… (called manKIND)…
* Have the Ability…Freewill..Authority…To Hear, Learn About, Temporarily or Permanently Experience, Follow, Trust, Believe, Commit….OR REJECT…

*His WORD…(revealed called: Lord, teacher, Truth, life, way, maker, Son, Father, Nazarene, Jew, Holy, Savior, I AM He, Righteous, All knowing, Church Head, God, ROCK….)
JESUS
* His SPIRIT…( revealed called: Almighty, Power, Holy, Messiah, Righteous, God, ROCK…)
CHRIST
* His WHOLE… (revealed called: I AM, God, Jehovah, Spirit, Word, Power, all knowing, Righteous, Holy, Father, LORD, Yahweh,
INVISIBLE

ONE Holy, Holy, Holy, Supreme Creator, Maker, Powerful Spirit Lord God Almighty

The Created ( manKind creature )
FREEWILL to hear, verify, experience, agree, trust, accept Offering to become MADE WHOLE… (and the acceptances’ Consequence)
or Ignore, Reject, Rally Against…(and the Rejections’ Consequence )


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Brakelite]

The following may not be to everyone's liking, but for me, it is a well composed commentary on the divinity of Christ. It is an except written by E J Wagoner, from his excellent book, Christ and His Righteousness.

How Shall We Consider Christ?
“But how should we consider Christ? Just as He has revealed Himself to the world, according to the witness which He bore concerning Himself. In that marvelous discourse recorded in the fifth chapter of John, Jesus said, ‘For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent Him.’ Verses 21-23” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 8.1}.
“To Christ is committed the highest prerogative, that of judging. He must receive the same honor that is due to God and for the reason that He is God. The beloved disciple bears this witness, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ John 1:1. That this Divine Word is none other than Jesus Christ is shown by verse 14: ‘And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the Only-begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.’” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 8.2}.
“The Word was ‘in the beginning.’ The mind of man cannot grasp the ages that are spanned in this phrase. It is not given to men to know when or how the Son was begotten; but we know that he was the Divine Word, not simply before He came to this earth to die, but even before the world was created. Just before His crucifixion He prayed, ‘And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.’ John 17:5. And more than seven hundred years before His first advent, His coming was thus foretold by the word of inspiration: ‘But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.’ Micah 5:2, margin. We know that Christ ‘proceeded forth and came from God’ (John 8:42), but it was so far back in the ages of eternity as to be far beyond the grasp of the mind of man” {CHR 9.1}.

Is Christ God?
“In many places in the Bible Christ is called God. The Psalmist says, ‘The mighty God, even the Lord [Jehovah], hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence; a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people. Gather My saints together unto Me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare His righteousness; for God is judge Himself.’ Psalm 50:1-6” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 9.2}.
“That this passage has reference to Christ may be known 1) by the fact already learned, that all judgment is committed to the Son, and 2) by the fact that it is at the second coming of Christ that He sends His angels to gather together His elect from the four winds. Matthew 24:31. ‘Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence.’ No. For when the Lord Himself descends from heaven, it will be ‘with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.’ 1 Thessalonians 4:16. This shout will be the voice of the Son of God, which will be heard by all that are in their graves and which will cause them to come forth. John 5:28, 29. With the living righteous they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, ever more to be with Him, and this will constitute ‘our gathering together unto Him.’ 2 Thessalonians 2:1. Compare Psalm 50:5; Matthew 24:31, and 1 Thessalonians 4:16” {CHR 10.1}.
“‘A fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him’ for when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, it will be ‘in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ 2 Thessalonians 1:8. So we know that Psalm 50:1-6 is a vivid description of the second coming of Christ for the salvation of His people. When He comes it will be as ‘the mighty God.’ Compare Habakkuk 3” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 11.1}.

 

[HealthyShape]

So dismissive, and yet you still can’t provide evidence for your beliefs. The questions were not rhetorical...but you just seem to have no answers.

I addressed your information, one quote at a time....yet you had no come back.....you had no defence, nor did you supply back up Scripture for your interpretation. There can’t be just one Scripture...they all have to agree in every respect...and a true Bible student would be able to always add to the discussion.
There does not have to be animosity.....just truth....and there can only be one truth.

Who is asking you to repeat yourself? Opinions abound here in case you haven’t noticed.....Once the Scripture was evaluated and dismissed as misinterpreted I was inviting you to provide more evidence for your views....all you seem to be able to do is back peddle.

I may not be a Greek speaker, but I rely on those who are, as well as using a Concordance and an Interlinear to ascertain how various words are defined, and also how those words are used in other verses....I study how the Scriptures validate themselves, and how they tell one story, with no contradictions.

Aren’t we encouraged to defend our faith....? I haven’t seen you do that.

Again, another empty words post. Nothing factual. Nobody who understands Greek supports the Jehovah Witnesses nonsensical inventions.

Even the so called "translators" of the Jehovist Bible - the NWT - are anonymous, because the translation is so sectarian that, nobody wants to be publicly associated with it. They would be discredited.

 

[Brakelite]

Continued....

This is one of His rightful titles. Long before Christ’s first advent, the prophet Isaiah spoke these words of comfort to Israel, ‘For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.’ Isaiah 9:6” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 11.2}.
“These are not simply the words of Isaiah; they are the words of the Spirit of God. God has, in direct address to the Son, called Him by the same title. In Psalm 45:6 we read these words, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Thy kingdom is a right scepter.’ The casual reader might take this to be simply the Psalmist’s ascription of praise to God, but when we turn to the New Testament, we find that it is much more. We find that God the Father is the speaker and that He is addressing the Son, calling Him God. See Heb. 1:1-8” {CHR 11.3}.
“This name was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement, but it is His by right of inheritance. Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because ‘He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.’ Hebrews 1:4. A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as ‘the only begotten Son of God,’ has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works, and so Christ is the ‘express image’ of the Father’s person. Hebrews 1:3. As the Son of the self-existent God, He has by nature all the attributes of Deity” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 11.4}.
“It is true that there are many sons of God, but Christ is the ‘only begotten Son of God,’ and therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was or ever can be. The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption (Romans 8:14, 15), but Christ is the Son of God by birth. The writer to the Hebrews further shows that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated but that it is one which He has by right. He says that Moses was faithful in all the house of God, as a servant, ‘but Christ as a Son over His own house.’ Hebrews 3:6. And he also states that Christ is the Builder of the house. Verse 3. It is He that builds the temple of the Lord and bears the glory. Zechariah 6:12, 13” {CHR 12.1}.
“Christ Himself taught in the most emphatic manner that He is God. When the young man came and asked, ‘Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?’ Jesus, before replying to the direct question, said, ‘Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God.’ Mark 10:17, 18. What did Jesus mean by these words? Did He mean to disclaim the epithet as applied to Himself? Did He mean to intimate that He was not absolutely good? Was it a modest depreciation of Himself? By no means, for Christ was absolutely good. To the Jews, who were continually watching to detect in Him some failing of which they might accuse Him, He boldly said, ‘Which of you convinceth me of sin?’ John 8:46. In the whole Jewish nation not a man could be found who had ever seen Him do a thing or heard Him utter a word that had even the semblance of evil, and those who were determined to condemn Him could do it only by hiring false witnesses against Him. Peter says that He ‘did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth.’ 1 Peter 2:22. Paul says that He ‘knew no sin.’ 2 Corinthians 5:21. The Psalmist says, ‘He is my Rock and there is no unrighteousness in Him.’ Psalm 92:15. And John says, ‘Ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin.’ 1 John 3:5” {Ellet J Waggoner, CHR 13.1}.
“Christ cannot deny Himself, therefore He could not say that He was not good. He is and was absolutely good, the perfection of goodness. And since there is none good but God, and Christ is good, it follows that Christ is God and that this is what He meant to teach the young man” {CHR 14.1}.
“It was this that He taught the disciples. When Philip said to Jesus, ‘Show us the Father, and it sufficeth us,’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?’ John 14:8, 9. This is as emphatic as when He said, ‘I and my Father are one.’ John 10:30. So truly was Christ God, even when here among men, that when asked to exhibit the Father He could say, Behold Me. And this brings to mind the statement that when the Father brought the First-begotten into the world, He said, ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him.’ Hebrews 1:16. It was not simply when Christ was sharing the glory of the Father before the world was that He was entitled to homage, but when He came a Babe in Bethlehem, even then all the angels of God were commanded to adore Him” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 14.2}.
“The Jews did not misunderstand Christ’s teaching concerning Himself. When He declared that He was one with the Father, the Jews took up stones to stone Him, and when He asked them for which of His good works they sought to stone Him, they replied, ‘For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.’ John 10:33. If He had been what they regarded Him, a mere man, His words would indeed have been blasphemy, but He was God” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 14.3}.
“The object of Christ in coming to earth was to reveal God to men so that they might come to Him. Thus the apostle Paul says that ‘God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself’ (2 Corinthians 5:19), and in John we read that the Word, which was God, was ‘made flesh.’ John 1:1, 14. In the same connection it is stated, ‘No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him’ (or made Him known). John 1:18” {EJ Waggoner, CHR 15.1}.
“Note the expression, ‘the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father.’ He has His abode there, and He is there as a part of the Godhead, as surely when on earth as when in heaven. The use of the present tense implies continued existence. It presents the same idea that is contained in the statement of Jesus to the Jews (John 8:58), ‘Before Abraham was, I am.’ And this again shows His identity with the One who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, who declared His name to be ‘I AM THAT I AM’” {CHR 15.2}.
“And, finally, we have the inspired words of the apostle Paul concerning Jesus Christ, that ‘it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell.’ Colossians 1:19. What this fullness is which dwells in Christ, we learn from the next chapter, where we are told that ‘in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.’ Colossians 2:9. This is most absolute and unequivocal testimony to the fact that Christ possesses by nature all the attributes of Divinity. The fact of the Divinity of Christ will also appear very distinctly as we proceed to consider:” {Ellet Joseph Waggoner, CHR 15.3}.
•

“Immediately following the oft-quoted text which says that Christ, the Word, is God, we read that ‘all things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.’ John 1:3. Comment cannot make this statement any clearer than it is, therefore we pass to the words of Hebrews 1:1-4, ‘God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they’”

 

[Brakelite]

Continuing...

Still more emphatic than this are the words of the apostle Paul to the Colossians. Speaking of Christ as the One through whom we have redemption, he describes Him as the One ‘who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature; for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him; and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.’ Colossians 1:15-17”

We cannot possibly omit in this connection Isaiah 40:25, 26: ‘To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number; he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.’ Or, as the Jewish translation more forcibly renders it, ‘from him, who is great in might, and strong in power, not one escapeth.’ That Christ is the Holy One who thus calls the host of heaven by name and holds them in their place is evident from other portions of the same chapter. He is the One before whom it was said, ‘Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.’ He is the One who comes with a strong hand, having His reward with Him; the One who, like a shepherd, feeds His flock, carrying the lambs in His bosom” {CHR 17.2}.

“One more statement concerning Christ as Creator must suffice. It is the testimony of the Father Himself. In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read that God has spoken to us by His Son; that He said of Him, ‘Let all the angels of God worship him’ that of the angels He saith, ‘Who maketh his angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire,’ but that He says to the Son, ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom.’ And God says further, ‘Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thine hands.’ Hebrews 1:8-10. Here we find the Father addressing the Son as God, and saying to Him, Thou hast laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. When the Father Himself gives this honor to the Son, what is man, that he should withhold it? With this we may well leave the direct testimony concerning the Divinity of Christ and the fact that He is the Creator of all things”

“A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son. We are mindful of Paul’s words, that ‘to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him’ (1 Corinthians 8:6); just as we have already quoted, that it was by Him that God made the worlds. All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. Our object in this investigation is to set forth Christ’s rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated” {Waggoner, CHR 19.1}.

 

[Brakelite]

I’m looking for your understanding of how this lament relates to the King of Tyre, and, like RLT, you are unable to provide it.

The section that applies to Satan doesn't apply to the king of Tyre. The king wasn't a covering cherub. He wasn't in the garden of Eden. Satan was both.
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ”
Revelation 12:9 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

I don't know what the stones of fire are. They maybe a reference to coals of fire used a couple of times in association with hail as a means of judgment from heaven. I don't know.

You berated us for not asking the right questions. Why would we be interested in asking questions of you? I don't recognize you as a teacher worthy of my interest. I have others far more knowledgeable in the scriptures and less arrogant.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Again, another empty words post. Nothing factual. Nobody who understands Greek supports the Jehovah Witnesses nonsensical inventions.

We actually have many Greek speakers in our ranks, not to mention many congregations in Greece itself....so what is that all about? You think you know because you speak Greek that we cannot match your understanding of it more than a native speaker?
Your opinions are offered in ignorance.

Even the so called "translators" of the Jehovist Bible - the NWT - are anonymous, because the translation is so sectarian that, nobody wants to be publicly associated with it. They would be discredited.

Is this true, or just based on someone’s biased opinion?.....or hearsay?
The NWT is based on the manuscripts of Westcott and Hort.
These are our chosen scholars, but you will have your own, and for your own reasons as well...
Who determines accuracy among scholars.....they do. Pick your scholars. They disagree with each other.

So what are the rules for an accurate translation?

A reliable translation must:​

• Sanctify God’s name by restoring it to its rightful place in the Scriptures.—Matthew 6:9.
• Accurately convey the original message that was inspired by God.—2 Timothy 3:16.
• Translate expressions literally when the wording and structure of the target language allow for such renderings of the original-language text.
• Communicate the correct sense of a word or a phrase when a literal rendering would distort or obscure the meaning.
• Use natural, easy-to-understand language that encourages reading.—Nehemiah 8:8, 12.”

Does this describe the translations that you approve of? I believe ours does....but I seldom use it here for obvious reasons. I use the ESV a lot because it is widely accepted by most....and I refer to Strongs Concordance a lot as well as using other translations to show that we believe your own Bibles tell the truth if people are really searching for it.

You will apparently believe whatever you are told about us....it’s nothing new. Prejudice is ancient, but alive and well and living amongst us to this day. As Christians we expect the kinds of responses that you have delivered here, (John 15:18-21) elevating yourself above something you have no real knowledge about....but think that you do. Ignorance does more damage than knowledge....

 

[Hiddenthings]

I don't know what the stones of fire are.

Honesty is good!

The section you are pointing to is the lament.

Every precious stone was thy covering (v. 13) and ‘you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire’ (v. 14) allude to the stones set in the high priest’s breastplate (Exod 39:10–14). They are called ‘stones of fire’ because they would gleam with brilliance when illuminated by the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. These stones symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel (Exod. 39:1).

The king of Tyre ‘walked among’ these stones of fire in the sense that he interacted with Israel, most notably during the preparation of materials for the temple. Israel’s unique position in God’s purpose became a ‘covering’ for Tyre, consistent with the decree of Genesis 12:3: ‘I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee.’

Just as the house of Potiphar was blessed because of Joseph (‘the LORD blessed the Egyptian’s house for Joseph’s sake,’ Gen. 39:5), so Tyre enjoyed blessing because of its association with Israel.

Brakelite, the chapter contains profound lessons meant for wayward Israel, and it is unfortunate to see these principles distorted by the imposition of a false narrative. This passage is really about understanding who God is and how He communicates, using historical events and then attaching symbolic meaning to them.

The lament is beautifully poetic and delivers a strong message to Israel: God shows no partiality and will judge them just as He judged the king of Tyre.

By the way, your thoughts about me, whether accurate or not do not diminish the importance of asking good questions and being hungry enough to seek correct answers. For some, the questions are too challenging; others desire to go deeper. To ‘prove all things,’ one must ask questions of the Word and allow it to speak, rather than speaking over it as many do.

Forcing the doctrine of a fallen angel on this record is to erase His Wisdom from its pages.

I will never allow that.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Not in Greek.

The LXX did have the Hebrew letters of HIS name before it was replaced with kurios.

 

[Brakelite]

Honesty is good!

The section you are pointing to is the lament.

Every precious stone was thy covering (v. 13) and ‘you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire’ (v. 14) allude to the stones set in the high priest’s breastplate (Exod 39:10–14). They are called ‘stones of fire’ because they would gleam with brilliance when illuminated by the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. These stones symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel (Exod. 39:1).

The king of Tyre ‘walked among’ these stones of fire in the sense that he interacted with Israel, most notably during the preparation of materials for the temple. Israel’s unique position in God’s purpose became a ‘covering’ for Tyre, consistent with the decree of Genesis 12:3: ‘I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee.’

Just as the house of Potiphar was blessed because of Joseph (‘the LORD blessed the Egyptian’s house for Joseph’s sake,’ Gen. 39:5), so Tyre enjoyed blessing because of its association with Israel.

Brakelite, the chapter contains profound lessons meant for wayward Israel, and it is unfortunate to see these principles distorted by the imposition of a false narrative. This passage is really about understanding who God is and how He communicates, using historical events and then attaching symbolic meaning to them.

The lament is beautifully poetic and delivers a strong message to Israel: God shows no partiality and will judge them just as He judged the king of Tyre.

By the way, your thoughts about me, whether accurate or not do not diminish the importance of asking good questions and being hungry enough to seek correct answers. For some, the questions are too challenging; others desire to go deeper. To ‘prove all things,’ one must ask questions of the Word and allow it to speak, rather than speaking over it as many do.

Forcing the doctrine of a fallen angel on this record is to erase His Wisdom from its pages.

I will never allow that.

Quite frankly, the unbelief of a fallen angel, while to my mind inexplicable considering the numerous references to such a being, is a minor issue compared to the Christedelphian views on the divinity of Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

The LXX did have the Hebrew letters of HIS name before it was replaced with kurios.

Was that earliest manuscripts, or Textual Variants?

 

[MonoBiblical]

Was that earliest manuscripts, or Textual Variants?

Textual Variant of the LXX and New Testament of "Isaiah 7:14"

 

[RLT63]

Honesty is good!

The section you are pointing to is the lament.

Every precious stone was thy covering (v. 13) and ‘you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire’ (v. 14) allude to the stones set in the high priest’s breastplate (Exod 39:10–14). They are called ‘stones of fire’ because they would gleam with brilliance when illuminated by the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. These stones symbolized the twelve tribes of Israel (Exod. 39:1).

The king of Tyre ‘walked among’ these stones of fire in the sense that he interacted with Israel, most notably during the preparation of materials for the temple. Israel’s unique position in God’s purpose became a ‘covering’ for Tyre, consistent with the decree of Genesis 12:3: ‘I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee.’

Just as the house of Potiphar was blessed because of Joseph (‘the LORD blessed the Egyptian’s house for Joseph’s sake,’ Gen. 39:5), so Tyre enjoyed blessing because of its association with Israel.

Brakelite, the chapter contains profound lessons meant for wayward Israel, and it is unfortunate to see these principles distorted by the imposition of a false narrative. This passage is really about understanding who God is and how He communicates, using historical events and then attaching symbolic meaning to them.

The lament is beautifully poetic and delivers a strong message to Israel: God shows no partiality and will judge them just as He judged the king of Tyre.

By the way, your thoughts about me, whether accurate or not do not diminish the importance of asking good questions and being hungry enough to seek correct answers. For some, the questions are too challenging; others desire to go deeper. To ‘prove all things,’ one must ask questions of the Word and allow it to speak, rather than speaking over it as many do.

Forcing the doctrine of a fallen angel on this record is to erase His Wisdom from its pages.

I will never allow that.

I'm sure everyone is grateful

 

[Brakelite]

The NWT is based on the manuscripts of Westcott and Hort.

Sorry editing serious errors...If you knew who those two were in character and their purpose in undermining protestantism and their love for Mariolatry and Romanism, you would blush with embarrassment. The absolute corrupt nature of the manuscripts they used in the Greek New testament, based solely on their reputation as the oldest, led to later alterations and distortions in numerous Bible "translations" with the intent of not finding truth as a precept, but for the sole purpose of destroying the power and integrity of the KJV.
It amazes me that a church so professedly opposed to Catholicism should embrace the corruptions of a number of anti protestant pro Catholic agitators such as Westcott, Hort, Lightfoot, and Newman.

 

[St. SteVen]

Textual Variant of the LXX and New Testament of "Isaiah 7:14"

Wouldn't that indicate that it shouldn't be used or trusted?

 

[MonoBiblical]

Wouldn't that indicate that it shouldn't be used or trusted?

An almah having a child is not a supernatural event. I don't trust the entire Tenak. By the grace of God, the important stuff about creation wasn't altered much.

 

[St. SteVen]

An almah having a child is not a supernatural event.

A virgin?

 

[RLT63]

A virgin?

Isa 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
If virgin just means young girl, what kind of sign is that? Behold, a young girl shall conceive! I guess God was sending signs every day