WHAT IS MEANT IN HEBREWS SAYING THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS?
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
WHAT IS MEANT IN HEBREWS SAYING THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS?
God cannot show you any more of his kindness because the emptying of himself in Jesus has been rejected........putting it another way, you will not see the great kindness towards you when you trample the Son of God underfoot.
It is like, 'if you refuse to forgive others, God will not forgive you'.....Jesus (Matthew 6:15)
......in other words, if you refuse to forgive others you will loose the ability to see (believe) that God has forgiven you.
Last edited:
i disagree, you're adding things just to suite your version and sect believes.
His calling to minister and witness for Jesus by definition above, is the same given to the 12 in commission as pertaining to the Gospel.
If that's the case there should be a Gospel according to Paul to the Gentiles, but there's none, so stop adding.
To us Paul's given Gospel as he claims in his epistles, is an addition and clarification in progress. and not contradicting to what initially the 12 received.
Since there was also a division and confusion between the Jew and Gentile church believes and individual practices.
Furthermore Paul's given ministry and witnessing sorted them out, with Peter being the decision maker for the Jew and Gentile church.
Therefore put together in full context to what is origin of the 12 from Christ and what is addition in progress of Paul from Christ in sound doctrine
As a result it's the one Gospel of GOD through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost in completion, both for the Jews and Gentiles, whether saved or unsaved.
Next,
'Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto to whom now I send thee'.
As my quote, where Jesus spoke to Ananias, is the same above, that Paul is not specifically sent to the Gentiles. but also those besides the Gentiles.
For example, if you minister and witness the Gospel of the 12 to a Jew and minister and witness the Gospel of Paul to a Gentile, apparently there's a 'division' between them.
Therefore the Jewish believers will have their own church in order not to contradict cum have conflict with the Gentile believers, and so too the Gentiles on their own
When on the other hand according to the same Gospel, Christ broke the division and united them as the one body of Christ.
And only in full context and one sound doctrine of the Gospel in the New Testament, can 'unite' them in togetherness and oneness thus one body of Christ in representation.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Complete,
I'm of the idea that the translators know how to translate better than we do.
Some use Strong's as if concentrating on a word equates to knowing the language...this is not true.
At times Strong's will even give several meanings and what do some do?
They pick the one that most suits them instead of the one the writer most probably meant.
Translators use hermeneutics...we do not.
So, I think it's wrong to get obsessed by one word...
in lieu of the rest of scripture.
Fred J,,,
I'm reading the other member totally different than you are!
I hope he/she clarifies.
You're diligently doing your part as according to the wisdom given thee discipled in the All Scripture=Holy Bible.
And am doing my part in the way am given, whilst as according to our given talent and ability, as unworthy servants ministering and witnessing for the Word(John1:1) of GOD.
The same the 12 Apostles and the 13th Paul, were busy doing according to each given talents and abilities, not contradicting each other.
For only when they met together in fellowship on rare occasions, the 12 or less, discovered Christ's addition in progress to the Gospel through Paul.
(For example, the 4 Gospels are written differently, because is according to their given talents and abilities. One can add more than the other and testify in a different manner than the other. But they do not contradict when the 4 are put together as one Gospel, including Paul's)
The only contradiction was the past traditions of the Jews forced onto the Gentiles, and moreover the 12 have not received revelation from Christ on that matter.
Until Christ chose Paul and sent him also on this matter besides others in addition and progress to the Gospel.
And Peter acknowledged Paul as brother Paul in his epistle, and who's teaching are some things hard to be understood.
Adding, which they (not including Peter and the Apostles) that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Therefore why are we surprised what is happening here on this thread as well, who similarly 'wrest' Paul's teaching and scripture.
But we've been responding in aid, not judging nor ridicule, merely correction and rebuke to stir listening and paying attention ears.
Paul should have mentioned to Peter, that he and his 11 should not force their Gospel on the Gentiles, because Christ have given him the Gospel for the Gentiles, is there any record?
Paul's Gospel minister and witness not about water baptism nor forbid it, because according to him Christ did not send him to water baptize, but yet he water baptized a few.
Since ministry and witnessing to water baptism have been up and going since John the Baptist to Jesus Christ and to the Acts of the Apostles,
Therefore does Christ through Paul need to minister and witness about that again, or rather about progressing unsolved issues between the Jew and Gentile church?
i feel sorry for Peter who haven't a clue what is Christ's decision between the Jew and Gentile church and tradition, where he was stuck making peace and pleasing both.
Until Paul rebuked him, ministered and witnessed the solution given by Christ about this matter, and finally Peter made the decision binding it on earth, and which is bound in Heaven for good.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Agreed on all.
As to being sorry for Peter, your words remind me of
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
The above is actually addressing the jews who had come to know and believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
But they were hard-pressed to abandon the religion they grew up with and trusted...the Jewish faith.
They were unsure as to the verocity of this new Christian religion and some of them either desired to return to their previous faith or actually did..thus trampling underfoot the sacrifice of Jesus.
Yes. I can understand that Peter might have had a dilemma.
These were real human beings, and not cartoon characters.
Their experience was truly incredible...
but they all came to one agreement...
they all believed who Jesus claimed to be.
i agree, the true Jews who are zeal and claim to be the followers of Moses, did play a rebellious and hostile role against the Gospel, the Messiah, the Apostles and the church.
Also until today, because worldwide to date there are a lot of Gentiles being saved by the Gospel, and the full number of them apparently have not come in yet.
But according to Romans chapter 11, the unsaved true Jews(house of Jacob) are exempted in any wrong doing, because GOD the FATHER have concluded them all in unbelief. (vs.30)
I say then, Have they(unsaved Israel) stumbled that they should fall? GOD forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them in jealousy.
(Lately in Israel, as usual the unsaved Jews meet at the 'wailing wall', to wail and pray for the Temple to return. And so happened that Christians gathered from other nations to also pray for Israel and sang worship songs there. Then suddenly the unsaved Jews turned against and assaulted one or two of the Christians, and the government condemn their action. That shows scripturally, 'for to provoke them in jealousy', why they turned against the Gentile Christians who were praying and worshiping their GOD there.)
That blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (vs.25)
To continue;
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob(Israel): (vs.26)
For this My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (vs.27)
As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your(Gentiles) sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. (vs. 28)
For the gifts and calling of GOD are without repentance(for the unsaved true Jews/Israelites). (vs.29)
For as ye(Gentiles) in time past have not believed GOD, yet have now obtained mercy through their(unsaved Israel) unbelief: (vs,30)
Even so have these also now(Paul's time) not believed, that through your(Gentiles) mercy they(unsaved Israel) also may obtain mercy. (vs.31)
To conclude;
We Gentile Christians should be thankful and pray for the unsaved Israel (besides the world), since we've obtained mercy form GOD because of their fall.
And finally that verse you've quoted from Hebrews, refers to those Jews and Gentiles who are saved under the election of grace, and fall back consequences.
Even though it's written to the Hebrews church, but this letter is also circulated and read in the Gentile churches, as also concerning them in faith.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
To add, the Gospel of Christ given to the 12, beginning from the day of Pentecost with Holy Ghost and fire.
Equipped with the mother tongues of the Gentile nations, beginning to spread to all nations, commissioned and blessed by Christ Himself,
And, many Gentiles and scattered Jews in their nations were being saved, discipled in the same Gospel and water baptized for the remission of sins.
Meantime, Paul was persecuting the church, and to top it up pleasing the Sanhedrin, he even got letters to go to Damascus to persecute more Jewish Christians especially.
In this city there's also mixture of Gentiles, whom also are saved, disciple in the same Gospel and water baptized, whom Paul have no authority over them.
In Acts of the Apostles, 12 or less documented, we have the Gentile Roman centurion and jailer, and Eunuch etc., who're saved in the same method, whether discipleship came first or water baptism came first.
Then only in the middle of Acts of the Apostles, Paul is being saved, hence begin to minister and witness his Christ given Gospel.
So the saved Gentiles prior discipled by the 12 and their Gospel, suddenly cast it away, non applicable, and move on to Paul's Gospel??
So this is where we 'conflict' with the Pauline sect, where the scripture is not 'tangible' to their claim, don't readers agree?
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Equipped with the mother tongues of the Gentile nations, beginning to spread to all nations, commissioned and blessed by Christ Himself,
And, many Gentiles and scattered Jews in their nations were being saved, discipled in the same Gospel and water baptized for the remission of sins.
Meantime, Paul was persecuting the church, and to top it up pleasing the Sanhedrin, he even got letters to go to Damascus to persecute more Jewish Christians especially.
In this city there's also mixture of Gentiles, whom also are saved, disciple in the same Gospel and water baptized, whom Paul have no authority over them.
In Acts of the Apostles, 12 or less documented, we have the Gentile Roman centurion and jailer, and Eunuch etc., who're saved in the same method, whether discipleship came first or water baptism came first.
Then only in the middle of Acts of the Apostles, Paul is being saved, hence begin to minister and witness his Christ given Gospel.
So the saved Gentiles prior discipled by the 12 and their Gospel, suddenly cast it away, non applicable, and move on to Paul's Gospel??
So this is where we 'conflict' with the Pauline sect, where the scripture is not 'tangible' to their claim, don't readers agree?
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
OK on Romans chapters 9 to 11.
I'm not understanding Romans 11:30 very well and cannot get to it right now.
Later...
This epistle is written to the Gentile Roman church addressing the to the Gentile Christian.
And in verse 30, Paul reminds the Gentile Christians how in time past they have not believed in GOD.
Yet now they have obtained mercy from GOD through the unbelief of the Jews.
Hope that helps, thank you
"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:" [Rom 11:30 KJV]
Yes all are in unbelief so God can have mercy upon all
Just a side note "times past" is a dispensational term
The Gentiles in Romans 11 are not the Gentiles in the body of Christ. They believed Peter's preaching in Acts 10:45 and are members in the believing remnant of Israel and members in the church lead by Peter
"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:" [Rom 11:30 KJV]
Yes all are in unbelief so God can have mercy upon all
Just a side note "times past" is a dispensational term
The Gentiles in Romans 11 are not the Gentiles in the body of Christ. They believed Peter's preaching in Acts 10:45 and are members in the believing remnant of Israel and members in the church lead by Peter
Similar threads
