Is it possible to lose salvation?

[BreadOfLife]

[Rev 3:11 KJV] 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 KJV] 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Inflected:	ἔρχομαι
Root:	ἔρχομαι
Strong's:	G2064
English:	come I
Code:	V-PNI-1S
Long:	Verb - Present Middle or Passive Deponent Indicative - 1st Person Singular

Speech:	Verb
Tense:	Present
Voice:	Middle or Passive Deponent
Mood:	Indicative
Person:	1st Person
Number:	Singular

Inflected:	ταχύ
Root:	ταχύ
Strong's:	G5035
English:	quickly.
Code:	ADV

Speech:

Adverb

I'm STILL waiting for evidence that Jesus already returned.
If it already happened - -then you must have a date . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Care to describe what clit means in Latin? It is not the same as in English.

NOT sure why you mentioned that word - which had NOTHING to do with virginity.
It is the intact hymen that determines virginity.

Perhaps a course in Biology is overdue . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is used of fathered siblings but not uterine siblings; hence the special NT usage refering to the adoption of progeny by God, a promise of afterlife.

And as I pointed out - in the majority of instances, adelphos(e/oi) is used to describe relatives or some other type of non-familial acquaintance.

 

[MonoBiblical]

I'm STILL waiting for evidence that Jesus already returned.
If it already happened - -then you must have a date . . .

40-70AD which is close to the fall of the 2nd temple.

 

[MonoBiblical]

NOT sure why you mentioned that word - which had NOTHING to do with virginity.
It is the intact hymen that determines virginity.

Perhaps a course in Biology is overdue . . .

Your course in Biology is evidently lacking. Clit in Latin is the cork, whatever that is.

 

[MonoBiblical]

And as I pointed out - in the majority of instances, adelphos(e/oi) is used to describe relatives or some other type of non-familial acquaintance.

Wrong, the early church, not the catholik church was an adopted family. You can't say that today. 3 points to your 0. At least, you could put in the effort of a real argument or rebuttal.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your claim above in RED is not only a LIE – it has already been debunked.

We see Mary’s relative (adelphe), who is also named “Mary” standing near the cross with her: She is the wife of Clopas/Alphaeus and the mother of the “adelphoi of Jesus (James, Joses.)

What do the Scriptures have to say about the women standing at the cross and their children?
- Matt. 27:56 says, "…among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee".

All these ae you playing with sentence construction

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Normal usual reading places 4 women at the cross. God is not the author of confusion like you Romanists are. He wouldn't use the word for relative is several places and then swap to the term that means family brothers here. this is a disingenuous ploy of Rome.

adelphē (Key)
Pronunciation
ad-el-fay'

KJV Translation Count — Total: 24x

The KJV translates Strong's G79 in the following manner: sister (24x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a full, own sister
2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion

1. Bible
2. Lexicons
3. New Testament Greek Lexicon - NAS
4. Adelphe

Adelphe​

ad-el-fay'
Parts of SpeechNoun Feminine

Adelphe Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 25

1. a full, own sister
2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

Catholic Public Domain Version
And standing beside the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, and Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Now let me give you a free grammar education here. Even your own Roman bibles agree when they put in punctuation. If those, who under the inspiration of God translated the bible, wanted Mary of Clopas to be the relative, they would have moved the comma to after her name. It would read "....and his Mothers siter Mary, the wife of clopas.".... That is how the grammar works for that little comma. Even your own roman bible translators did the same!

Matt. 1:25 says, "... but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

Lie! that is a paraphrase of what was actually written. but even your fools attempt to defend the indefensible still shows that Jospeh didn't have sex with Mary until she gave birth!

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

And we dealt with that. Even little children realize that once death occurs, women cannot have children. The renderinf of that passage to people with a bare minmum of knowledge says that Michal was barren to the time of her death. Maybe you need to getg a biology book.

- Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states: And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Still playhing ignorant, I see! When that was written, no one knew where Moses' grave was. Sad you do not know how to understand your mother language.

You have completely failed to prove Joseph and Mary were not obedient jews and had sex after jesus, and that the people in Mark are not His half brothers and sisters. All you present to teh table is conjecture, hypothesis and retranslating basic grammatic knowledge.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If Jesus is truth itself and the Church is the FULLNESS of Him and the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15) – then YOU are wrong.

You are correct about ONE thing – the Catholic Church is not a denomination . . .

You can't help but lie can you! The Catholic Church is a denomination with Christendom. There are 24 big C Catholic Denominations with in Christendom, The Roman one happens to be the biggest. the small c catholic church is not a denomination butr a living organism comprised of all believers in every sect of Christendom.

The roman church has proven it is very very fallible in many things.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That’s a childish understanding of John 3:5.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

He didn’t say: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from his mommy, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
That would include EVEERY person who ever existed . . .

- In the first Chapter, we see the Baptism of Jesus. What TWO elements are spoken of here?
WATER and the Holy Spirit (John 3:32-34).

- In Chapter 2, we see Jesus at the Wedding at Cana. AGAIN, we see the use of WATER which is transformed into wine

- In the third Chapter, Jesus answers Nicodemus's question about how to be born AGAIN. What does Jesus tell Him?
That we must be born again of WATER and the Spirit (John 3:5). Gee - that looks just like HIS Baptism.

- Finally - after Nicodemus leaves, WHERE does Jesus go? He goes with His Apostles to BAPTIZE people in the Judean countryside (John 3:22).

The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transforming waters of Baptism.

Well as Jesus said to approach Him as a childe, I thank you. but natural birth for milennia has been condidered born of water. Woman today still use the metaphor that has been used for centuries when labor begind..."My water broke".

If ignorance is bliss- you are one of the happiest people on earth.

MY position all along has been that “adelphos” doesn’t always means uterine sibling . . .

YOUR statement about what Jesus said in Matt.12:50 and Mark 3:35 solidified my position.

We know that is you rposition, but those who translate Koine Greek with experise say you are wrong as far as relation use goes.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

He didn’t say: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from his mommy, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
That would include EVEERY person who ever existed . .

You should read the context for Jesus even defines being born of water!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And if you knew history and culture at all, you would know that Jews, thought that just by being born Jewish were promised the kingdom! Jesus corrected that widespread belief by saying you have to be born naturally and supernaturally.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Bible never makes this claim . . .

Such ignorance.

Baptize:

βαπτίζει — 2x
βαπτίζειν — 2x
βαπτίζεις — 1x
βαπτίζομαι — 4x
βαπτιζόμενοι — 1x
βαπτίζονται — 1x
βαπτίζοντες — 1x
βαπτίζω — 3x
βαπτίζων — 7x
βάπτισαι — 1x
βαπτίσει — 3x
βαπτισθεὶς — 3x
βαπτισθέντες — 2x
βαπτισθέντος — 1x
βαπτισθῆναι — 11x
βαπτισθήσεσθε — 4x
βαπτισθήτω — 1x
βαπτίσωνται — 1x
βεβαπτισμένοι — 1x
ἐβάπτιζεν — 2x
ἐβαπτίζοντο — 5x
ἐβάπτισα — 5x
ἐβαπτίσαντο — 1x
ἐβάπτισεν — 4x
ἐβαπτίσθη — 5x
ἐβαπτίσθημεν — 3x
ἐβαπτίσθησαν — 2x
ἐβαπτίσθητε — 3x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 1:529,92
KJV Translation Count — Total: 80x
The KJV translates Strong's G907 in the following manner: baptize (76), wash (2x), baptist (1x), baptized (with G2258) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3. to overwhelm
   "Note on Baptism in Ac. Baptism in water (such as John's) is distinguished from baptism with the Holy Spirit (i. 5, etc.). Those who receive the latter, however, may also be baptized in water (cf. xi. 16 with x. 47); and there is one example of people who had previously received John's baptism receiving Christian baptism as a preliminary to receiving the Spirit (xix. 3 ff.). John's was a baptism of repentance (xiii. 24; xix. 4), as was also Christian baptism (ii. 38), but as John's pointed forward to Jesus (xix. 4), it became obsolete when He came. Christian baptism followed faith in the Lord Jesus (xvi. 31 ff.); it was associated with His name (ii. 38; viii. 16, etc.), which was invoked by the person baptized (xxii. 16); it signified the remission (ii. 38) or washing away of sins (xxii. 16); sometimes it preceded (ii. 38; viii. 15 ff.; xix. 5), sometimes followed (x. 47 f.) the receiving of the Spirit." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles[Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 98, n. 1.)
   This word should not be confused with baptô (911). The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (baptô) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizô) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
4. 
   
5. So to dip or submerge is to dunk something or someone under water. Learn definitions and not redefined words vomited out by roman priests to make new doctrine that do not agree with Scripture

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And He will never leave OR forsake us.
It is US who can leave and forsake HIM. It happens ALL the time.

Are you really that dense???? If Jesus will never leave us, how can we leave Him? He won't leave us! Think on this- Jesus will never leave a person, no exceptions, If He won't leave us, we can't leave Him.

People that do leave Jesus, the bible in 3 places define them, they were never saved to begin with, even though they may have had a religious exterior.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No - what is tragic is your refusal to accept the Word of God.

We are told over and over again to “stay good”. This idea that we are “saved”, so we can behave ANY way we because “Jesus has out back” want is heresy. Contrary to YOUR objections - we are SUPPOSED to live a good and godly life (Rom. 6:12-14, Eph. 4:26-32, James 4:17, 1 John 3:6-9).

Wake up . . .

I never said that we can behave any way we want once we are saved. That whole mentality you just vomited out comes from a very carnal understanding of salvation.

I agree that we are to live a godly life, and we can only do that when we are saved or born of the spirit! the old us is rendered deaqd by God and the new man is born, with a new heart, new desire, new destiney, and new path to live.

You should vome to teh god of the bible instead of the man made God of Rome

 

[BreadOfLife]

40-70AD which is close to the fall of the 2nd temple.

That's NOT historical evidence.
It's just another one of your unsubstantiated claims . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your course in Biology is evidently lacking. Clit in Latin is the cork, whatever that is.

I haven’t been able to find such language in the entire document.

I asked you for an excerpt, which you haven’t been able to do so far . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong, the early church, not the catholik church was an adopted family. You can't say that today. 3 points to your 0. At least, you could put in the effort of a real argument or rebuttal.

The Early Church WAS the Catholic Church.

- It had a hierarchy of Bishops, Priests and Deacons . . .

- They celebrated the Liturgy of the Eucharist – NOT as a mere symbol - but as the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ . . .

- They confessed their sins to the Church . . .

- It was even called the “Catholic Church” - NOT as a description but as a TITLE . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

All these ae you playing with sentence construction

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Normal usual reading places 4 women at the cross. God is not the author of confusion like you Romanists are. He wouldn't use the word for relative is several places and then swap to the term that means family brothers here. this is a disingenuous ploy of Rome.

adelphē (Key)
Pronunciation
ad-el-fay'

KJV Translation Count — Total: 24x

The KJV translates Strong's G79 in the following manner: sister (24x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a full, own sister
2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion
3. Bible
4. Lexicons
5. New Testament Greek Lexicon - NAS
6. Adelphe

Adelphe​

ad-el-fay'
Parts of SpeechNoun Feminine

Adelphe Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 25

1. a full, own sister
2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.

Catholic Public Domain Version
And standing beside the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, and Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Now let me give you a free grammar education here. Even your own Roman bibles agree when they put in punctuation. If those, who under the inspiration of God translated the bible, wanted Mary of Clopas to be the relative, they would have moved the comma to after her name. It would read "....and his Mothers siter Mary, the wife of clopas.".... That is how the grammar works for that little comma. Even your own roman bible translators did the same!

Good grief . . .

In Jewish culture two children of the SAME parents NEVER given the SAME name (Mary). I challenge you to find ONE SINGLE Biblical example of tis.

Mary’s adelphe in this verse is some other relation – but NOT a uterine sister.
Do some actual HOMEWORK . . .

Lie! that is a paraphrase of what was actually written. but even your fools attempt to defend the indefensible still shows that Jospeh didn't have sex with Mary until she gave birth!

Let me know when YOU have proven the contrary.
Because so far, you've FAQILED . . .

And we dealt with that. Even little children realize that once death occurs, women cannot have children. The renderinf of that passage to people with a bare minmum of knowledge says that Michal was barren to the time of her death. Maybe you need to getg a biology book.

Obviously, Einstein . . .

MY argument is that the word “UNTIL” was used anyway – showing that it doe NOT always mean that something occurred AFTER . . .

Still playhing ignorant, I see! When that was written, no one knew where Moses' grave was. Sad you do not know how to understand your mother language.

Once again – the word “UNTIL” is used.

If it ALWAYS means that something occurred afterwards – the explain the use of it here . . .

You have completely failed to prove Joseph and Mary were not obedient jews and had sex after jesus, and that the people in Mark are not His half brothers and sisters. All you present to teh table is conjecture, hypothesis and retranslating basic grammatic knowledge.

I never claimed that I could prove it. Neither have YOU proven the contrary.

MY evidence that she remained a virgin is simply stronger than YOURS that she didn’t . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can't help but lie can you! The Catholic Church is a denomination with Christendom. There are 24 big C Catholic Denominations with in Christendom, The Roman one happens to be the biggest. the small c catholic church is not a denomination butr a living organism comprised of all believers in every sect of Christendom.

Your ignorance is astounding . . .

First of all – there is only ONE Catholic Church. There are over 20 Liturgical Rites who are ALL in FULL communion with each other. The differences are only cultural – NOT doctrinal.

I think that one of the reasons you are so angry is because you are so confused . . .

The roman church has proven it is very very fallible in many things.

ONE more time, Einstein . . .

The “Roman” Church only refers to ONE of the more that TWENTY Liturgical Rites of the ONE Catholic church.

Do your homework, for crying out loud . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well as Jesus said to approach Him as a childe, I thank you. but natural birth for milennia has been condidered born of water. Woman today still use the metaphor that has been used for centuries when labor begind..."My water broke".

If ignorance is bliss- you are one of the happiest people on earth.

YOU actually believe that Jesus said: “Unless one is born in the normal way, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven”??

What about premature Caesarean births?
What about miscarried babies?
What about aborted babies?
According to YOU – they are all damned to Hell because they weren’t “born of water” . . .

As for YOUR claim that this was the belief for a “millennia” – it was only invented after the 16th century . . .

We know that is you rposition, but those who translate Koine Greek with experise say you are wrong as far as relation use goes.

WRONG.

I gave you the scholarly definition from Strong’s Greek Concordance and Dictionary that “adelphos” can mean MANY things, including:

Brother, half-brother, step-brother, cousin, nephew, kinsman, neighbor, fellow-believer, fellow-countryman, etc.

Like I said before – you’ve LOST this argument . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You should read the context for Jesus even defines being born of water!

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And if you knew history and culture at all, you would know that Jews, thought that just by being born Jewish were promised the kingdom! Jesus corrected that widespread belief by saying you have to be born naturally and supernaturally.

He doesn’t “define” it, as YOU say. Nicodemus was STILL puzzled. Jesus was talking about supernatural, spiritual birth – NOT about physical birth.

Why do you think John’s Gospel is so fixated on Baptism for the first THREE chapters?? What does Jesus DO after conversing with Nicodemus?? He goes out with His disciples to BAPTIZE (John 3:22).