Rapture ... soon?

[Marilyn C]

Given to Him to be destroyed. How are you missing that part?

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Our home will be the new heavens and new earth for eternity.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I agree however, you seemed to have missed that the nations will be on the New Earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

So glad we agree that our inheritance is in heaven. There is a big push at the moment throughout many religious organizations saying that we will be on the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, JESUS and the Apostles have the revelation of the OT = they wrote it down for you to SEE

And it says that Israel is the wife, the bride of their Master/bridegroom.

 

[David in NJ]

You should be able to answer a simple question about what you believe. Are you not interested in being clear about what you believe and why?

i certainly are able AND you were asked to NOT isolate scripture when the subject matter covers Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11
as well as Galatians and Ephesians
as well as 1 Peter and more

So, please tell me why you believe that the current earthbound nation Israel, which the LORD JESUS Himself promised that HE would Return to rescue them is not Truth by your estimation.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

FYI, - i detest the lie of dispensationalism = as does the LORD

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree however, you seemed to have missed that the nations will be on the New Earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

What are you agreeing with exactly? I'm saying the heathen will be destroyed by Jesus when He returns, as Psalm 2:8-9 indicates. How can they be on the new earth if they have been destroyed?

So glad we agree that our inheritance is in heaven.

LOL. When did I say that? I said our home will be the new heavens and new earth. Are you actually reading what I'm saying or not, Marilyn?

There is a big push at the moment throughout many religious organizations saying that we will be on the earth.

We will. But, it will be renewed when Jesus comes by fire, resulting in the new earth. It's not an entirely new earth, but this earth renewed. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5) and it won't just be temporarily.

 

[Marilyn C]

What are you agreeing with exactly? I'm saying the heathen will be destroyed by Jesus when He returns, as Psalm 2:8-9 indicates. How can they be on the new earth if they have been destroyed?


LOL. When did I say that? I said our home will be the new heavens and new earth. Are you actually reading what I'm saying or not, Marilyn?


We will. But, it will be renewed when Jesus comes by fire, resulting in the new earth. It's not an entirely new earth, but this earth renewed. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5) and it won't just be temporarily.

OK so we see differently regarding the 3 inheritances.

Body of Christ with Christ on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

OT saints in the New Jerusalem in the universal realm. (Heb. 11: 16)

Israel and the nations on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

(I have to leave now to do jobs.)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

i certainly are able AND you were aske to NOT isolate scripture when the subject matter covers Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11
as well as Galatians and Ephesians
as well as 1 Peter and more

I'm not isolating scripture and I'm also making it clear what I believe and how I interpret different passages. You, on the other hand, are seemingly unwilling to do the same for some reason.

So, please tell me why you believe that the current earthbound nation Israel, which the LORD JESUS Himself promised that HE would Return to rescue them is not Truth by your estimation.

Please don't ask me ridiculous questions. Don't ask me why I think something Jesus promised is not truth when you know darn well that I believe everything He said and everything He promised is truth.

What did He promise to unbelievers? Hell. Read Matthew 23. Why do you think Jesus will rescue people just because of their nationality when scripture never teaches such a thing? It's about faith, not nationality. That is taught repeatedly in scripture.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

How exactly do you interpret this passage? Those "hypocrites" and "brood of vipers" (His words in Matthew 23) that He was talking to there will see Him when He returns and will bow down before Him while acknowledging that He is Lord. That passage is not talking about national repentance in Israel, as dispensationalists try to claim.

FYI, - i detest the lie of dispensationalism = as does the LORD

You say that, yet you are supporting it with your understanding of Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

OK so we see differently regarding the 3 inheritances.

Body of Christ with Christ on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

OT saints in the New Jerusalem in the universal realm. (Heb. 11: 16)

Israel and the nations on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

(I have to leave now to do jobs.)

Yes, we have talked about that before and we see that VERY differently. Scripture teaches unity amongst all believers in one body, so how could I possibly agree with you about this? You're contradicting many scriptures with your view. Peter said believers are looking for new heavens and a new earth in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13), so why are you looking for anything else but that? I don't understand the way you look at scripture at all. I'm not sure if there is a single verse in all of scripture that we would agree on.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm not isolating scripture and I'm also making it clear what I believe and how I interpret different passages. You, on the other hand, are seemingly unwilling to do the same for some reason.


Please don't ask me ridiculous questions. Don't ask me why I think something Jesus promised is not truth when you know darn well that I believe everything He said and everything He promised is truth.

What did He promise to unbelievers? Hell. Read Matthew 23. Why do you think Jesus will rescue people just because of their nationality when scripture never teaches such a thing? It's about faith, not nationality. That is taught repeatedly in scripture.


How exactly do you interpret this passage? Those "hypocrites" and "brood of vipers" (His words in Matthew 23) that He was talking to there will see Him when He returns and will bow down before Him while acknowledging that He is Lord. That passage is not talking about national repentance in Israel, as dispensationalists try to claim.


You say that, yet you are supporting it with your understanding of Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11.

JESUS Says: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" = this is to a specific nationality = the Jewish people and Israel on this earth.

So also is Romans 11:25-35

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

JESUS Says: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" = this is to a specific nationality = the Jewish people and Israel on this earth.

Read the verses prior to that. Jesus had just been talking to the unbelieving scribes and Pharisees in Jerusalem who He called "hypocrites" and a "brood of vipers". He was telling them that they will not see Him again until they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". They will be resurrected from the dead and will see Him after He comes when they are standing before Him to be judged (Matthew 25:31-46). They will be bowing down to Him and confessing that He is Lord at that time (Romans 14:10-12). But, it will be too late for them to be saved at that point.

So also is Romans 11:25-35

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”

Which Israel is Paul talking about in Romans 11:26? How do you interpret this passage...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

You say you despise dispensationalism and, yet, you interpret Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11 exactly like dispensationalists do.

 

[David in NJ]

Read the verses prior to that. Jesus had just been talking to the unbelieving scribes and Pharisees in Jerusalem who He called "hypocrites" and a "brood of vipers". He was telling them that they will not see Him again until they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". They will be resurrected from the dead and will see Him after He comes when they are standing before Him to be judged (Matthew 25:31-46). They will be bowing down to Him and confessing that He is Lord at that time (Romans 14:10-12). But, it will be too late for them to be saved at that point.


Which Israel is Paul talking about in Romans 11:26? How do you interpret this passage...

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

You say you despise dispensationalism and, yet, you interpret Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11 exactly like dispensationalists do.

JESUS is speaking not only to those Jewish leaders but to the entire nation from that point on and forward.

In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.

2“It shall be in that day,” says the Lord of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land. 3It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the name of the Lord.’ And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies.

4“And it shall be in that day that every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies; they will not wear a robe of coarse hair to deceive. 5But he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a farmer; for a man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.’ 6And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your [a]arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

JESUS is speaking not only to those Jewish leaders but to the entire nation from that point on and forward.

In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.

2“It shall be in that day,” says the Lord of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land. 3It shall come to pass that if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who begot him will say to him, ‘You shall not live, because you have spoken lies in the name of the Lord.’ And his father and mother who begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesies.

4“And it shall be in that day that every prophet will be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies; they will not wear a robe of coarse hair to deceive. 5But he will say, ‘I am no prophet, I am a farmer; for a man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.’ 6And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your [a]arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’

Spoken like a true dispensationalist.

Why did you stop at verse 6? Would you agree that Zechariah 13 verse 7 is talking about the same "day" (time period) as those verses?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Jesus quoted that verse in relation to His first coming, not His second coming. By trying to relate Zechariah 13 to His second coming contradicts what Jesus Himself indicated.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

 

[David in NJ]

Spoken like a true dispensationalist.

LOL x100

Dispensationalism is/are doctrines of demons = part truth mixed with lies = same as pre-trib

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL x100

Dispensationalism is/are doctrines of demons = part truth mixed with lies = same as pre-trib

Your understanding of Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11 matches what is taught in dispensationalism exactly. That should make you reconsider how you are interpreting those passages.

 

[David in NJ]

Your understanding of Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11 matches what is taught in dispensationalism exactly. That should make you reconsider how you are interpreting those passages.

dispensationalists have part truth mixed with error/lie SAME as pre-trib

According to Scripture how many Jerusalems are there?
and
According to Scripture how many Israels are there?

 

[David in NJ]

Your understanding of Matthew 23:37-38 and Romans 11 matches what is taught in dispensationalism exactly. That should make you reconsider how you are interpreting those passages.

Post 1,615

 

[David in NJ]

Spoken like a true dispensationalist.

Why did you stop at verse 6? Would you agree that Zechariah 13 verse 7 is talking about the same "day" (time period) as those verses?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

Jesus quoted that verse in relation to His first coming, not His second coming. By trying to relate Zechariah 13 to His second coming contradicts what Jesus Himself indicated.

Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

verse 7 = 1st Coming
7“Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
“Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered;
Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

verse 8 and 9 = 2nd Coming
8And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.

2nd Coming continues in ch14
1Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,

 

[Angelina]

Please take care how you address one another on this thread, folks. Be kind, agree to disagree if you have to and walk away. You don't always need to be right or get the last word in. I'd hate to shut this thread down but I will.

Angie

 

[rwb]

The kingdom rule of the Lord is not conferred by any earthly ruler, for it is by the Father who will set Him on Mount Zion in the heavenlies. (Ps. 2: 6)

And yes His rulership is within us now. However, he will rule over all the nations for the Father has given them to Him. (Ps. 2: 8)

And yes Christ came to establish His rulership through Israel at that time. He knew they would reject Him but He still offered it to them so that they could be accountable for rejecting Him.

I am a premil, but I am not looking for the earthly rule of the Lord over the nations, that is for Israel. I am looking for the Lord to come and take me `home.`

You're making my point for me. When Christ came Israel of Old was looking for a physical military King, one like King David. Which is why they rejected Christ who came meek and mild riding on a donkey. In a parable speaking of them Christ speaking of them says, "We will not have this man to reign over us."

The Psalms are pointing us to the coming of Jesus, the Son of God, who is since He ascended to heaven ruling and reigning over His Kingdom from heaven. Not a physical kingdom of this earth, but His Spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven that shall never pass away. Christ is not only ruling within His saints, but He is also ruling over His saints from Heavenly Mount Zion, the city of God. When Christ ascended into heaven He received an everlasting dominion that and Kingdom that shall never be destroyed.

Psalm 2:6-7 (KJV) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psalm 2:8 (KJV) Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9-11 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

This earth and all that belongs to this earth are destined for destruction! Since the Kingdom of God shall never pass away, why would He rule over things that are temporal? Is not all that is temporal and destined for destruction ruled over by the evil one? This world is NOT and shall never be the Kingdom of God. Not in this age nor the age to come.

All who are of ethnic Israel who are still in unbelief must turn to Christ for life before they die or their fate of the second death is assured. There will not be more time given them after Christ comes again. They must turn to Christ in this age of time through repentance and faith, or be lost forevermore.

 

[rwb]

I agree however, you seemed to have missed that the nations will be on the New Earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Not nations as a whole Marilyn, nations of them that are saved! IOW everlasting salvation belongs not only to the Jews, but to people from every nation of the world. For in Christ there is no longer Jew & Gentile, but ONE people called Christians.

Revelation 21:24 (KJV) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 

[rwb]

And it says that Israel is the wife, the bride of their Master/bridegroom.

Is that Israel of the flesh, or Israel of God?

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.