Is it possible to lose salvation?

[rvmb]

Still a lot of waffle to answer the thread's question in the title of this thread which only requires a Yea" or a "No" answer.

In the Opening post, a lot of words were placed as quoted below, however does this tread require our justification as to whether or not we believe we can lose our salvation.

Below is the opening post in this thread: -



I have said three times above that the answer is "yes", we can lose our salvation.

This thread should have birth four other threads.

The initial question would be, "How do I, or what must I do, to gain God's Salvation?"

The second question would be, "How Can I maintain God's gift of salvation, just for me?"

The third question would be, "What should I not do such that I lose my Salvation?" And,

The fourth question would be, "How do I go about restoring my Salvation, after I have abandoned it?"

If someone starts these four threads, remember the KISS principle,"How do I go about restoring my Salvation, after I have abandoned it?"

Otherwise, you are following what the Pharisees were doing in Jesus' day.

"How do I, or what must I do, to gain God's Salvation?"
Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
"How Can I maintain God's gift of salvation, just for me?"
Titu 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
"What should I not do such that I lose my Salvation?" And,
"How do I go about restoring my Salvation, after I have abandoned it?"
KISS
Where does Paul (Rom-Philemon) teach a Saint can become UNsaved, UNsealed, UNjustified ?

 

[walter]

Thankyou but I'm not a stranger to those verses.
Gal 5:3-4
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Who is the warning to ?
whosoever of you are justified by the law;
How are believers saved today ?
By grace or by the law ?
Why do you believe a warning to the law justified applies to the grace justified ?

Don't really want to debate it, just looking for scriptures I thought were relevant to Salvation, sorry I picked a couple wrong scriptures.

 

[rvmb]

Don't really want to debate it, just looking for scriptures I thought were relevant to Salvation, sorry I picked a couple wrong scriptures.

Discussion helps everyone :)
Who do believe the Gal 5:4 warning is to ?
Those JUSTIFIED by grace
or
Those JUSTIFIED by the law ?

 

[walter]

Discussion helps everyone :)
Who do believe the Gal 5:4 warning is to ?
Those JUSTIFIED by grace
or
Those JUSTIFIED by the law ?

Either way Galatians 5:4 does not change the meaning of other scriptures: like Hebrews 5:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36

I believe we have to take into account all the scriptures we can find on this Bible topic to form a complete understanding.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Yes...


In your opinion. Yeah, I get it.


Okay, well, that's an erroneous opinion. We have established ~ whether you deny it or not ~ that circumcision was the Old Testament sign and seal of the covenant, and that baptism is the New Testament sign and seal of the covenant. The Lord commanded Abraham to give the covenant sign of circumcision to all the males in his household on the eighth day (see Genesis 17:11–14). Closely related to the covenant promise itself, the Lord calls the sign of circumcision “My covenant” (Genesis 17:10). And in Colossians 2:11 specifically, Paul says baptism is ~ IS ~ a circumcision. So it also ~ now, having replaced circumcision as such ~ is the sign and seal of God's covenant, and as such should be administered in the same way as circumcision was. The intimate similarity between circumcision and baptism is that baptism, as circumcision did, functions as both a sign and a seal of God’s new covenant... they both visibly symbolize our union with Christ in his death and resurrection, and when we believe, which in the case of infants then was probably years after the actual circumcision and now is probably years after the actual baptism ~ it becomes a means by which God communicates His grace, allowing us to participate in the promises of salvation throughout our lives. Now don't misunderstand... belief was not a prerequisite for circumcision as is not now a prerequisite for baptism. But there you go; that should be plenty enough to convince you.

One more time: Through a symbolic washing with water, the Lord signifies and seals the covenant promises to forgive, cleanse, and renew His covenant people. The meaning of baptism is rooted in the meaning of the covenant signs in the Old Testament. In the new covenant, baptism has replaced the old covenant sign of circumcision. Both sacraments signified membership in the visible church. Both point to the promise of redemption through the shed blood of Jesus.



That's too bad...


Well, they're probably still "children of the devil," but the promise is that ~ in the case of babies ~ someday they will no longer be, that they will be children of the living God, and that's the point. So no, it's far from a "futile exercise." The promise is for us and all our children.


Believing that God will do what He has promised to do is not glorifying God? Hmmmm...


In your opinion. I understand. But, even as highly intelligent as you are, CS, you are mistaken in that.


I do. I never even insinuated otherwise. Yeah, I mean, transformed... and being transformed at the same time. We'll not be fully transformed... conformed to the image of Christ, of course, until He returns. But sure. But it's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that begins this transformation. The baptism that we administer, by water, like circumcision of the Old Testament, is an outward sign and seal of God's promise to... well, make this transformation happen.


Well, it does... <smile> I mean, we are all one in Christ Jesus after all...


Yes... but... <smile> By extension, those covenants are with and for us, too... <smile>


Right, you can, but far more than you suppose, apparently...


Ohhhhhhhh. Well. Yes it does, in... many ways... <smile> Cheers, my friend.

Grace and peace to you.

It's easy to simply disagree with, most of what I believe,, but you should have offer up some kind of biblical correction. I don't agree with most of your theological views, and I always provide supporting scriptures, to show that I'm not rejecting your theology based on my private opinions as you always do.

I would have addressed each of the points in your reply, but my keyboard is malfunctioning, so I'll need to do that after I install a new one

 

[Christian Soldier]

Do you claim you no longer sin ?

That's a silly question, because you know that it's not possible to live without sinning. But I thank the Lord Jesus for paying the penalty for all of my past, present and future sins, so I have nothing to worry about.
I have already been saved and no amount of sin can cause me to lose my salvation, I have already inherited eternal life in paradise

 

[rvmb]

Either way Galatians 5:4 does not change the meaning of other scriptures: like Hebrews 5:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36

I believe we have to take into account all the scriptures we can find on this Bible topic to form a complete understanding.

We agree that Gal 5:4 is not a lose salvation verse :)
Next, Hebrews, where does Paul teach that he wrote Hebrews ?

 

[rvmb]

That's a silly question, because you know that it's not possible to live without sinning. But I thank the Lord Jesus for paying the penalty for all of my past, present and future sins, so I have nothing to worry about.
I have already been saved and no amount of sin can cause me to lose my salvation, I have already inherited eternal life in paradise

Are you are unable to answer questions without resorting to compliments ?
Yes, we all continue to sin in some way, using verses from Paul, what level of sin would be required for a Saint today to become unsaved ?

 

[walter]

Next, Hebrews, where does Paul teach that he wrote Hebrews ?

I am not interested in debating every single sentence, Google says it is the Apostle Paul, but then when you ask a question about it, it says Hebrews is anonymous.

I see you like to get your questions answered, but you like to ignore the other person's comments.



I believe we have to take into account all the scriptures we can find on this Bible topic to form a complete understanding.

like Hebrews 5:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36

 

[rvmb]

I am not interested in debating every single sentence, Google says it is the Apostle Paul, but then when you ask a question about it, it says Hebrews is anonymous.

I see you like to get your questions answered, but you like to ignore the other person's comments.



I believe we have to take into account all the scriptures we can find on this Bible topic to form a complete understanding.

like Hebrews 5:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:36

If you ask me a simple yes/no question then I answer you with volumes of opinions, quote out of context verses, make claims without verses, go off topic etc, and make a habit of it how would you respond later when I asked you a simple question ?

 

[walter]

If you ask me a simple yes/no question then I answer you with volumes of opinions, quote out of context verses, make claims without verses, go off topic etc, and make a habit of it how would you respond later when I asked you a simple question ?

Do whatever you think is best, thanks for the conversation. "I answer you with volumes of opinions" you would be wasting your time because I don't rely on opinions, I let Jesus do all the talking to explain what he took the time to talk about. Opinions are useless!
Is your volumes of opinions supposed to be more important then what Jesus explains in his own words?

 

[GodsGrace]

They have heard that WORKS OF THE LAW is not necessary, most do not even know what works are or what "Law" Jesus was teaching is. They twist Paul's words who was speaking of the Levetical Laws of Moses as obsolete since Christ fulfilled these Laws, worse they extend obsolescence that Paul spoke of the Levetical Laws to the TEN Commandments, not understanding that the ten commandment, the Covenant , placed IN the ark of the Covenant was set apart and Is Holy and everlasting. this is what Jesus was teaching and said clearly that to enter into life one must keep the Ten Commandments from the heart, and show this light to the world and not hide it, the works Jesus speak of are simple, help others in need. Imagine if everyone did this, it would be paradise.

Blessings GG

Agreed.

Many speak of good works as if THE LAW is being discussed.
Totally different.

Jesus did abolish THE LAW,,,except for the Moral Law...that will live for eternity because God has given us the moral law....HE is a moral being...HE IS MORAL (divine simplicity) and we are made in His image, which is why man seeks morals and the absence of morals will lead to chaos.

Yes sir,,,Jesus said the Kingdom is within us...indeed IF we all followed Him, this world would be a far better place.

 

[walter]

..indeed IF we all followed Him, this world would be a far better place.

I agree. Yes it would be so nice, if we would just read his words and try to follow his words a little more each day.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Are you are unable to answer questions without resorting to compliments ?
Yes, we all continue to sin in some way, using verses from Paul, what level of sin would be required for a Saint today to become unsaved ?

There is no level of sin, that can make a Saint lose his salvation.

There's nothing in the bible to support this silly idea that born again believers can lose their salvation. I will abandon my faith and join your religion immediately if you can find a shred of evidence to support this nonsense.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh you're a Paul only kinda guy.
To teach Salvation for TODAY ?
Yes, because that's EXACTLY why & what Christ selected & taught Paul to do.
If you believe I am wrong then please list the verses that after Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 teach Matthew, Luke, John etc have the role of Apostle & Minister to the believers spoken of in Gal 3:28, 1 Cor12:13, Col 3:11.
Let Scripture do the talking for you :)

Follow Paul? - doctrine.org

Introduction A fascinating but largely unknown fact of the New Testament is Paul’s command to believers to follow or imitate him. He issued this command several times throughout his letters. No other writer of Scripture issued such an imperative. We…

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Paul's "Mystery" - doctrine.org

Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the secrets of God (1 Corinthians 4.1). Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of…

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Jesus vs. Paul - doctrine.org

Introduction Controversy has arisen regarding Jesus versus Paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of Jesus and Paul.1 Jesus preached the kingdom of heaven. Paul did not. Paul preached justification by faith alone. Jesus did not. What are we…

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rvmb
I'm not going to read your links because this whole idea is just too silly.

Here is, basically, what you're asserting:

Jesus picked 12 men to follow Him around for about 3.5 years.
He taught them and they experienced everything that happened.
It's obviuos that they didn't really understand WHO Jesus was...
but they knew by the end, after the resurrection.

In Matthew 10 Jesus sent them out to preach and teach.
In Matthew 28 Jesus sent them out to preach and teach all nations (in that area of course).
And, indeed, their message did eventually reach ALL nations.

BUT
Jesus made a mistake!
He realized that the Apostles would not have the capability of teaching EVERY NATION, as He had instructed them to do.
Especially those nutty Gentiles.
So, He decided to knock Paul off his horse and commanded PAUL to teach and preach.
I think Jesus forgot to tell Paul he should also baptize....

Maybe Jesus didn't really know what He was doing all that time he taught the Apostles?


You see r....this scenario is so silly that it requires NO SCRIPTURE.
IF YOU were correct in your thinking....
WHY would the other books have been added to the NT?
For the Jews?
So then there should be TWO NT's.
One for the Jews
One for the Gentiles.

And yet Jesus said we are to be ONE with the Father.

Ive already posted to you that maybe we should just throw out the NT and leave the 6 or 7 letters that Paul wrote.
You are aware that he may not have written every letter we THINK or THOUGHT he did? Only 6 or 7 of them can be verified...can't remember which ones right now.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no level of sin, that can make a Saint lose his salvation.

There's nothing in the bible to support this silly idea that born again believers can lose their salvation. I will abandon my faith and join your religion immediately if you can find a shred of evidence to support this nonsense.

As promised CS....I will be replying to some of your posts.
This one happened to come up when I was replying to another member.

The NT is CHOCK FULL of verses stating that your salvation can be lost.
It's just that some persons like to read their favorite verses and leave out the rest....

I'll post some for those reading along....

We must ENDURE if we are to be saved:

JESUS said:

Matthew 24:13
13But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Revelation 2:10
10...and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.


Paul said:

Hebrews 3:6
6...And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence ...

Hebrews 3:14
14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Colossiand 1:22-23
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,



We can be led astray:

JESUS said:

Matthew 24:51
51“See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...

Revelation 2:5
5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -unless * you repent.

Mark 3:15
15And Jesus began to say to them, “See that no one leads you astray.


Paul said:

Hebrews 13:9
9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings,

1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith

Galatians 6.1
1Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.



And there are many more...
but some refuse to read and adhere to the entire NT.

Salvation can be lost...
And the NT states this very clearly.

 

[GodsGrace]

the truth is what matters at the end. It shines light in the darkness.

Yes sir.
The truth shines light in the darkness....

For those that wish to see it.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's were Paul raises concerns about losing his right to PREACH not losing salvation.
Please list the Paul verses that teach a believer can become UNsaved or UNsealed :)

Wow rvmb...
You need to rethink your position here.

So NOW you're saying that Paul is referring to making mistakes in PREACHING and he may LOSE HIS RIGHT to preach?

So now you're saying that Jesus made a mistake in giviing the OTHER APOSTLES the authority to teach and preach and baptize....

AND

Jesus ALSO made the mistake of choosing PAUL to preach and teach becasue Paul believes that Jesus may have to retract Paul's authority?

Which would mean that Jesus made TWO MISTAKES:

1. He made a mistake in choosing the Apostles.
2. He made a mistake in choosing Paul.


No scripture required here r....
your whole premis is incorrect, unbiblical, and has NEVER been taught by any mainline denomination.
It is NOT orthodox christianity....

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes...


In your opinion. Yeah, I get it.


Okay, well, that's an erroneous opinion. We have established ~ whether you deny it or not ~ that circumcision was the Old Testament sign and seal of the covenant, and that baptism is the New Testament sign and seal of the covenant. The Lord commanded Abraham to give the covenant sign of circumcision to all the males in his household on the eighth day (see Genesis 17:11–14). Closely related to the covenant promise itself, the Lord calls the sign of circumcision “My covenant” (Genesis 17:10). And in Colossians 2:11 specifically, Paul says baptism is ~ IS ~ a circumcision. So it also ~ now, having replaced circumcision as such ~ is the sign and seal of God's covenant, and as such should be administered in the same way as circumcision was. The intimate similarity between circumcision and baptism is that baptism, as circumcision did, functions as both a sign and a seal of God’s new covenant... they both visibly symbolize our union with Christ in his death and resurrection, and when we believe, which in the case of infants then was probably years after the actual circumcision and now is probably years after the actual baptism ~ it becomes a means by which God communicates His grace, allowing us to participate in the promises of salvation throughout our lives. Now don't misunderstand... belief was not a prerequisite for circumcision as is not now a prerequisite for baptism. But there you go; that should be plenty enough to convince you.

One more time: Through a symbolic washing with water, the Lord signifies and seals the covenant promises to forgive, cleanse, and renew His covenant people. The meaning of baptism is rooted in the meaning of the covenant signs in the Old Testament. In the new covenant, baptism has replaced the old covenant sign of circumcision. Both sacraments signified membership in the visible church. Both point to the promise of redemption through the shed blood of Jesus.

Great explanation!!

That's too bad...


Well, they're probably still "children of the devil," but the promise is that ~ in the case of babies ~ someday they will no longer be, that they will be children of the living God, and that's the point. So no, it's far from a "futile exercise." The promise is for us and all our children.


Believing that God will do what He has promised to do is not glorifying God? Hmmmm...


In your opinion. I understand. But, even as highly intelligent as you are, CS, you are mistaken in that.


I do. I never even insinuated otherwise. Yeah, I mean, transformed... and being transformed at the same time. We'll not be fully transformed... conformed to the image of Christ, of course, until He returns. But sure. But it's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that begins this transformation. The baptism that we administer, by water, like circumcision of the Old Testament, is an outward sign and seal of God's promise to... well, make this transformation happen.


Well, it does... <smile> I mean, we are all one in Christ Jesus after all...


Yes... but... <smile> By extension, those covenants are with and for us, too... <smile>


Right, you can, but far more than you suppose, apparently...


Ohhhhhhhh. Well. Yes it does, in... many ways... <smile> Cheers, my friend.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christian Soldier]

As promised CS....I will be replying to some of your posts.
This one happened to come up when I was replying to another member.

The NT is CHOCK FULL of verses stating that your salvation can be lost.
It's just that some persons like to read their favorite verses and leave out the rest....

I'll post some for those reading along....

We must ENDURE if we are to be saved:

JESUS said:

Matthew 24:13
13But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Revelation 2:10
10...and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.


Paul said:

Hebrews 3:6
6...And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence ...

Hebrews 3:14
14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Colossiand 1:22-23
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,



We can be led astray:

JESUS said:

Matthew 24:51
51“See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...

Revelation 2:5
5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -unless * you repent.

Mark 3:15
15And Jesus began to say to them, “See that no one leads you astray.


Paul said:

Hebrews 13:9
9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings,

1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith

Galatians 6.1
1Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.



And there are many more...
but some refuse to read and adhere to the entire NT.

Salvation can be lost...
And the NT states this very clearly.

All you offer is delusion, you promised to show verses to support your false doctrine, but you never do. It's quite sad to see such delusion, you should read your posts to see how pathetic your attempt to push demonic doctrine is.

You have never ever found a single verse to support this foolish idea that "salvation can be lost" I will give you my house, my cars and motorcycle, if you find a single verse that even hints at this ridiculous heresy.