Reason for The Crusades explained

[Jericho]

“Let us not forget this: War is in itself a crime against humanity. People need peace! The world needs peace!”

There are such things as just wars if the objective is to stop evil, such as during World War 2. If evil is allowed to proliferate, it causes untold suffering, misery, and death. The only way to stop evil is by force. That's true even at the micro level when combating crime on the streets. Turning the other cheek is a good practice when it comes to interpersonal relations but it does not apply to nations. And it certainly doesn't infer that someone should allow themselves to be harmed. God put survival instincts into every living creature for a reason. I don't believe God will condemn anyone for defending themselves with lethal force if need be, as there is a clear distinction between murder and killing.

We should model our lives after Christ, but people forget there are two facets to his character. The first time he came as a lamb to be sacrificed. Even then he showed he wasn't a pacifist when he turned over the tables of the money changers and drove them out with a whip. But the second time, he's coming as a lion to make war (Rev 19:11) and forcibly remove the anti-Christ and those allied with him. He's not making war alone either; he's coming back with the armies of heaven (Rev 19:14). So, yes, even in the heavenlies there are armies and war. One day we will beat our swords into plowshares, but that day is not today. Even Ecclesiastes 3:8 affirms there is a time for war and a time for peace.

 

[walter]

There are such things as just wars if the objective is to stop evil, such as during World War 2. If evil is allowed to proliferate, it causes untold suffering, misery, and death. The only way to stop evil is by force. That's true even at the micro level when combating crime on the streets. Turning the other cheek is a good practice when it comes to interpersonal relations but it does not apply to nations. And it certainly doesn't infer that someone should allow themselves to be harmed. God put survival instincts into every living creature for a reason. I don't believe God will condemn anyone for defending themselves with lethal force if need be, as there is a clear distinction between murder and killing.

We should model our lives after Christ, but people forget there are two facets to his character. The first time he came as a lamb to be sacrificed. Even then he showed he wasn't a pacifist when he turned over the tables of the money changers and drove them out with a whip. But the second time, he's coming as a lion to make war (Rev 19:11) and forcibly remove the anti-Christ and those allied with him. He's not making war alone either; he's coming back with the armies of heaven (Rev 19:14). So, yes, even in the heavenlies there are armies and war. One day we will beat our swords into plowshares, but that day is not today. Even Ecclesiastes 3:8 affirms there is a time for war and a time for peace.

In World War I and World War II didn't the church bless the German soldiers and then in America the church blessed the American soldiers?

Google says over 100 million people died in those two Wars, what would the numbers be if all the people, Listened to Jesus words of Peace?

 

[Jericho]

In World War I and World War II didn't the church bless the German soldiers and then in America the church blessed the American soldiers?

No idea, but no one thinks they're evil, everyone thinks they're on the side of good.

 

[Triumph1300]

In World War I and World War II didn't the church bless the German soldiers and then in America the church blessed the American soldiers?

Christianity in Europe during WWII

The beliefs owned by the Fascists and Nazis came from their Christian upbringing from church, school, and Christian traditions.

churchandstate.org.uk

 

[Matthias]

There are such things as just wars if the objective is to stop evil, such as during World War 2. If evil is allowed to proliferate, it causes untold suffering, misery, and death. The only way to stop evil is by force. That's true even at the micro level when combating crime on the streets. Turning the other cheek is a good practice when it comes to interpersonal relations but it does not apply to nations. And it certainly doesn't infer that someone should allow themselves to be harmed. God put survival instincts into every living creature for a reason. I don't believe God will condemn anyone for defending themselves with lethal force if need be, as there is a clear distinction between murder and killing.

We should model our lives after Christ, but people forget there are two facets to his character. The first time he came as a lamb to be sacrificed. Even then he showed he wasn't a pacifist when he turned over the tables of the money changers and drove them out with a whip. But the second time, he's coming as a lion to make war (Rev 19:11) and forcibly remove the anti-Christ and those allied with him. He's not making war alone either; he's coming back with the armies of heaven (Rev 19:14). So, yes, even in the heavenlies there are armies and war. One day we will beat our swords into plowshares, but that day is not today. Even Ecclesiastes 3:8 affirms there is a time for war and a time for peace.

What was the position of Christianity before the Just War theory?

 

[Matthias]

“Let us not forget this: War is in itself a crime against humanity. People need peace! The world needs peace!”

The nations of the world are perfectly capable of warring against one another without Christian participation.

 

[Wrangler]

Here is an interesting article of Christians who give to Caesar what is Caesar's. It points out:

• the The Chaplain Corps was established in 1775 at the request of George Washington, who at the time was serving as general of the Continental Army. Washington established the corps to meet the spiritual needs of the men (who followed Christ's command to buys swords and were using them for the purpose intended).
• The Secretary of War points to the U.S. Army Spiritual Fitness Guide as a critical example of the ways secularism has influenced the Chaplain Corps.
• The 112-page document mentions "God" only once, does not mention "Jesus" or "virtue," but does mention "feelings" 11 times and "spiritual" over 350 times.
• "There will be a top-down cultural shift putting spiritual well-being on the same footing as mental and physical health," Hegseth said.
• Being a chaplain in the U.S. military is a "high and sacred calling, but this only works if our shepherds are actually given the freedom to boldly guide and care for their flock," he said.

 

[walter]

No idea, but no one thinks they're evil, everyone thinks they're on the side of good.

I am sure that the soldiers on both sides of the war, thought they were doing the right thing for their country and God.
....
World War I and World War II, took many lives, judging from the past experiences in war times, did people go to prison? What would you rather do go to prison or listen to Jesus words of Peace?

AI Overview

During the First and Second World Wars, individuals faced imprisonment for a variety of offenses related to the war effort, including treason, espionage, draft evasion, and conscientious objection [1, 2]. Governments established penalties for those who opposed or resisted war measures, resulting in many people serving time in prison.

The question of choosing between imprisonment and listening to "Jesus words of Peace" involves a comparison between a legal and civil consequence in a time of conflict, and a moral or spiritual directive.

• The first option, going to prison, represents the tangible consequence of breaking specific laws or refusing state directives related to a conflict.
• The second option involves adherence to the religious teachings of Jesus, which are widely interpreted as advocating for peace, love, and non-violence.

Ultimately, whether an individual chose to comply with war efforts, face imprisonment for their beliefs, or follow a spiritual path of peace was a deeply personal decision influenced by their circumstances, legal obligations, and moral or religious convictions.
.....

Why do I consider the words from "AI Overview", because they are mostly neutral, not from any church and they are informative.

 

[Matthias]

Here is an interesting article of Christians who give to Caesar what is Caesar's. It points out the The Chaplain Corps was established in 1775 at the request of George Washington, who at the time was serving as general of the Continental Army. Washington established the corps to meet the spiritual needs of the men (who followed Christ's command to buys swords and were using them for the purpose intended).

Washington was wrong. The Chaplains were wrong. Christians from here killed Christians from there, and Jesus? Well, you think he’s pleased with his followers killing one another.

Blessing the Bombs

Zabelka served as a priest for the airmen who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Zabelka died in 1992, but his message, in this speech given on the 40th anniversary of the bombings, must never be forgotten.

www.plough.com

 

[Matthias]

Jesus to his disciples -> “Go and purchase swords to kill one another with.”

That’s not the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth. That’s the teaching of ”another Jesus”.

 

[Matthias]

“IASP condemns the pain and suffering caused by the violence of war, especially to civilian populations and hospital facilities. We are grateful for the health care workers, physicians, and scientists working hard to relieve pain in difficult and dangerous circumstances.”

Statement on Pain and Suffering Caused by the Violence of War | International Association for the Study of Pain

IASP condemns the pain and suffering caused by the violence of war

www.iasp-pain.org

I’m not endorsing IASP [International Association for the Study of Pain] but followers of Jesus should be able to agree with their statement on pain and suffering caused by the violence of war.

 

[walter]

Jesus to his disciples -> “Go and purchase swords to kill one another with.”

That’s not the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth. That’s the teaching of ”another Jesus”.

I agree,

Jesus says earlier that day to his disciples to purchase swords, then later that day Jesus explains the consequences of using a sword.

 

[Matthias]

A request to those who are calling on the followers of Jesus to fight the wars of the nations: You can’t guarantee that Christian soldiers can avoid inflicting non-combatant casualties any more than you can guarantee that non-Christian soldiers can avoid inflicting non-combatant casualties. Please provide civilian casualty figures from World War I and World War II for our consideration. (Include civilian casualty figured from other wars, if you would like to.) Let us see the fruit of your labor.

 

[Matthias]

I agree,

Jesus says earlier that day to his disciples to purchase swords, then later that day Jesus explains the consequences of using a sword.

@Wrangler knows the consequences of using a sword. (He‘s a modern-day Crusader.) He wants those consequences. He needs those consequences. He lives for those consequences. He may die for, and from, those consequences. He’s leading others down the same path.

***

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

Little children, is that Jesus of Nazareth or “another Jesus” whispering in your ears?

Test the spirit (1 John 4:1).

Post in thread 'Be like little children'
Be like little children

 

[Wrangler]

I know that you have killed human beings in your heart

This is a dead give-away that you are over-spiritualized; when you make it seem that something soulful is sinful when it’s not. I killed human beings in my heart? Oh no! Oh no. Oh no. Wait a minute.

I have NOTHING SINFUL in my soulful heart; to follow Jesus and his commands, do justice, to give to government what is the governments, to buy a sword (for self defense) - meaning I’m 100% ready mentally, physically and spiritually to do what is necessary to protect myself and loved ones, totally including killing people. This is justice! So help me God - just as my Crusader brothers!

You cannot accept that killing people is the very first thing Christ will do when he returns. The very first thing! Then, he’ll send many others to die the 2nd Death in the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day. Do you accuse Jesus of killing people in his heart also?

 

[Matthias]

Father and son meet across the field of battle, both harboring the “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” teaching in their heart. As the father thrusts his sword into his son and his son blows a hole in his father’s stomach, both men lay dying, thinking of the Caesar whom they faithfully served.

Think it can’t happen?

 

[Matthias]

This is a dead give-away that you are over-spiritualized; when you make it seem that something soulful is sinful when it’s not. I killed human beings in my heart? Oh no! Oh no. Oh no. Wait a minute.

I have NOTHING SINFUL in my soulful heart; to follow Jesus and his commands, do justice, to give to government what is the governments, to buy a sword (for self defense) - meaning I’m 100% ready mentally, physically and spiritually to do what is necessary to protect myself and loved ones, totally including killing people. This is justice! So help me God - just as my Crusader brothers!

May the justice which you seek to mete out to others be meted out to you.

You cannot accept that killing people is the very first thing Christ will do when he returns. The very first thing!

I have accepted it. More than once now I’ve advised you to wait for Messiah to return.

Then, he’ll send many others to die the 2nd Death in the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day. Do you accuse Jesus of killing people in his heart also?

No. I acknowledge that he will do what God has appointed him to do.

 

[Matthias]

Never claimed to be the final judge. Doesn't change the fact that I am a judge.1 Corinthians 6:3
3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Well then judge the earliest followers of Jesus who - like Jesus and the apostles - history documents did not kill their enemies.

“You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

Thank you. The Lord rebuke you.

 

[walter]

A request to those who are calling on the followers of Jesus to fight the wars of the nations: You can’t guarantee that Christian soldiers can avoid inflicting non-combatant casualties any more than you can guarantee that non-Christian soldiers can avoid inflicting non-combatant casualties. Please provide civilian casualty figures from World War I and World War II for our consideration. (Include civilian casualty figured from other wars, if you would like to.) Let us see the fruit of your labor.

I don't know if these words are relevant to your comments, but this is some information I could find.


Estimates for civilian casualties in the World Wars vary, with authoritative sources indicating staggering numbers, often exceeding military deaths, particularly in World War II. The figures highlight that the nature of modern warfare inherently results in significant non-combatant casualties, regardless of the soldiers' personal beliefs.

Civilian Casualty Figures
Here are estimated civilian casualty figures from World War I and World War II:

Conflict	Estimated Military Deaths	Estimated Civilian Deaths (direct & indirect)	Total Estimated Deaths	Civilian Deaths as a Percentage of Total
World War I	~9 to 11 million	~6 to 13 million	~15 to 22 million	~33% - 50%
World War II	~15 to 25 million	~45 to 65 million	~60 to 85 million	~66% - 75%

Key Observations

• Scale of Civilian Harm: World War II was markedly more devastating to civilian populations than WWI. The rise of strategic bombing, the targeting of population centers, and genocides contributed to the shift where civilian deaths drastically outnumbered military deaths.
• Causes of Death: Civilian deaths in both wars resulted from a combination of direct military action (aerial bombardment, massacres), and indirect war-related causes like starvation, disease, and famine.
• Notable National Impacts (WWII): Some nations experienced incredibly high civilian death tolls. The Soviet Union had an estimated 14-15 million civilian deaths, and China potentially 16 million or more, many due to famine and Japanese occupation forces. Poland also suffered immensely, with around 5 million civilian deaths, largely from genocide and military activity.

Civilian Casualties in Other Wars
The high proportion of civilian casualties has continued in many subsequent conflicts:

• Korean War (1950-1953): Total deaths are estimated at 5 million, including a significant number of civilians.
• Vietnam War (c. 1955-1975): Civilian deaths in North and South Vietnam were estimated at around 627,000, out of a total of over 1.3 million deaths.

The data demonstrates the devastating and often unavoidable reality of non-combatant casualties in modern warfare, a central ethical consideration for all individuals and nations involved in conflict.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know if these words are relevant to your comments, but this is some information I could find.


Estimates for civilian casualties in the World Wars vary, with authoritative sources indicating staggering numbers, often exceeding military deaths, particularly in World War II. The figures highlight that the nature of modern warfare inherently results in significant non-combatant casualties, regardless of the soldiers' personal beliefs.

Civilian Casualty Figures
Here are estimated civilian casualty figures from World War I and World War II:

Conflict	Estimated Military Deaths	Estimated Civilian Deaths (direct & indirect)	Total Estimated Deaths	Civilian Deaths as a Percentage of Total
World War I	~9 to 11 million	~6 to 13 million	~15 to 22 million	~33% - 50%
World War II	~15 to 25 million	~45 to 65 million	~60 to 85 million	~66% - 75%

Key Observations

• Scale of Civilian Harm: World War II was markedly more devastating to civilian populations than WWI. The rise of strategic bombing, the targeting of population centers, and genocides contributed to the shift where civilian deaths drastically outnumbered military deaths.
• Causes of Death: Civilian deaths in both wars resulted from a combination of direct military action (aerial bombardment, massacres), and indirect war-related causes like starvation, disease, and famine.
• Notable National Impacts (WWII): Some nations experienced incredibly high civilian death tolls. The Soviet Union had an estimated 14-15 million civilian deaths, and China potentially 16 million or more, many due to famine and Japanese occupation forces. Poland also suffered immensely, with around 5 million civilian deaths, largely from genocide and military activity.

Civilian Casualties in Other Wars
The high proportion of civilian casualties has continued in many subsequent conflicts:

• Korean War (1950-1953): Total deaths are estimated at 5 million, including a significant number of civilians.
• Vietnam War (c. 1955-1975): Civilian deaths in North and South Vietnam were estimated at around 627,000, out of a total of over 1.3 million deaths.

The data demonstrates the devastating and often unavoidable reality of non-combatant casualties in modern warfare, a central ethical consideration for all individuals and nations involved in conflict.

Thank you. I really wanted someone like @Wrangler to provide them for us. He / they need to own them.

”You are not a disciple of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill“ has civilian non-combatant blood on its hands, and it wants more.