Why I hate the Bible... Or so they say?

[Jack]

How does Satan attack the Bible? (provide scripture)

How about I provide some of YOUR Bible attacks?

 

[One 2 question]

On a scale of 1 to 10 (low to high) how much do you know about where the Bible came from?

Can I ask a simple question. Does the bible, say the KJV (66 books or the original with 80 books), contain ALL SCRIPTURE? "all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial" 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[One 2 question]

The word of God has been misused and mistranslated to accommodate these false ideas.

When did people start refering to the bibles as the word of God? As there has been many different bibles over the past 2000 year. I believe one of the first had 11 books, the original KJV had 80 books and there are others with more again.

If I take 66 buckets of water out of the ocean and put it into my fish tank, is my tank THE OCEAN? Of course it contains some.

The bibles contain some of THE WORD OF GOD but it isn't all of God's words.

It doesn't even contain ALL SCRIPTURE. Or does it?

 

[Brakelite]

I have found that over the years of using the NKJ and other translations, the KJV has always been proven right, and stand alone most of the time. I see the same Greek texts repeated in all the translations but not in the KJV.
Hebrews 2:16 -

• For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (KJV)
• For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. (NKJV)

This is strange.

Not so strange. From what I have read of those who have studied the various translations, (me not being one of them), they find a common feature of those texts that have been altered or omitted. Many of them negatively impact, directly or indirectly, the character and/or nature of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Can I ask a simple question. Does the bible, say the KJV (66 books or the original with 80 books), contain ALL SCRIPTURE? "all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial" 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

That's a great question.
And that scripture (which was not a part of the canon when written) does not tell us.

When that was written, only the scrolls they had in hand could be considered scripture. And not all of them.
It's not clear what the Apostle was referring to.

Timothy knew the Holy Scriptures from infancy (vs 15), so I assume that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 only refers to the OT scripture.
The scriptures they read in the synagogues.

Christians today claim that this refers to the English translation Bible they have in hand. (66 books)
They argue that Peter confirmed that Paul's writings were scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 3:16 NIV
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things
that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When did people start refering to the bibles as the word of God? As there has been many different bibles over the past 2000 year. I believe one of the first had 11 books, the original KJV had 80 books and there are others with more again.

If I take 66 buckets of water out of the ocean and put it into my fish tank, is my tank THE OCEAN? Of course it contains some.

The bibles contain some of THE WORD OF GOD but it isn't all of God's words.

It doesn't even contain ALL SCRIPTURE. Or does it?

Having studied the Bible carefully for many decades, one thing stands out for me......men maybe able to alter the meanings of original language words and suggest things that are not written in the original texts, but the fact that God’s word is still here teaching us about his truth, despite all attempts to destroy it, demonstrates that God has protected and preserved its contents.....when 2 Tim 3:16-17 says that “all scripture is inspired of God”, he meant the word as it was delivered by inspiration to his servants.

We are not just talking about things that were experienced, but things that these men wrote that they could not possibly have known any other way.....the creation account for example. How could Moses have known the details recorded in that account....not scientific explanations, but simple clear language about what they needed to know, when they needed to know it.
How did Isaiah know that the earth was round? (Isa40:22)

When God spoke to Job out of the windstorm, he gave more details about creation from his perspective...but again in plain human terms.

Job 38....ESV...
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? “Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, . . . .and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? . . . Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth?
Declare, if you know all this.” (Vs 4-9, 11, 18)

These details explain that all the “sons of God” existed before the creation of the Universe and applauded it with joy....and why all the heavenly bodies, (in the entire Universe) which were all created as one act of the Almighty, were not visible from an earthly perspective, until God made the light shine on the first day. The light was already there but vs 1-2 tell us that earth was in darkness. God removed some of the darkness, but not all. Why was light so important? To create night and day...a foundational issue for all living creatures. And also because vegetation was the first living creation....though not the same kind of life that animate creatures would enjoy later.
The heavenly bodies only became visible from an earthly perspective on day 4. But their light source was already there.

After dividing the waters that covered the earth into the waters above the atmosphere and the waters below it, God formed the oceans and made dry land appear. If we note where half the waters went (above the expanse) and read 2 Pet 3:5-6, it demonstrates where the water came from when God flooded the earth in Noah’s day. (Gen 7:11) God used both the waters under the earth (aquifers) and the waters above the earth,
to again flood it.

But where did the waters go after the flood? We know that this displacement of the waters above the earth would have altered the climate dramatically and geologists tell us that the earth at one time enjoyed a mild and temperate, uniform climate. But with the removal of that water canopy, extremes of weather could now be experienced.

We also know that the poles are magnetic and that magnetic attraction influences the waters on earth. Tides are the result of the moon’s magnetic effects on earth...so it stands to reason that the magnetic poles drew the water to them and snap froze it in place. Climate change is said to be melting the polar ice caps, which if not halted, will again flood the earth.

These are the kinds of details that the Bible contains, but would never be revealed unless we study the whole ‘library’ of the books it contains. All we need to know is there if we search for it.....most will not put in the effort. Others are too busy defending doctrines to even see how clearly the Bible explains things in simple terms.
By complicating simple concepts, sinful humans muddy the waters and create confusion....most of it is illogical, but the God of the Bible never is. He gave us our sense of logic and has preserved his word, so that what we need to know is provided...but not necessarily all that we want to know....not yet.

I trust him....he knows what he is doing....

 

[One 2 question]

Having studied the Bible carefully for many decades, one thing stands out for me......men maybe able to alter the meanings of original language words and suggest things that are not written in the original texts, but the fact that God’s word is still here teaching us about his truth, despite all attempts to destroy it, demonstrates that God has protected and preserved its contents.....when 2 Tim 3:16-17 says that “all scripture is inspired of God”, he meant the word as it was delivered by inspiration to his servants.

We are not just talking about things that were experienced, but things that these men wrote that they could not possibly have known any other way.....the creation account for example. How could Moses have known the details recorded in that account....not scientific explanations, but simple clear language about what they needed to know, when they needed to know it.
How did Isaiah know that the earth was round? (Isa40:22)

When God spoke to Job out of the windstorm, he gave more details about creation from his perspective...but again in plain human terms.

Job 38....ESV...
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? “Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, . . . .and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? . . . Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth?
Declare, if you know all this.” (Vs 4-9, 11, 18)

These details explain that all the “sons of God” existed before the creation of the Universe and applauded it with joy....and why all the heavenly bodies, (in the entire Universe) which were all created as one act of the Almighty, were not visible from an earthly perspective, until God made the light shine on the first day. The light was already there but vs 1-2 tell us that earth was in darkness. God removed some of the darkness, but not all. Why was light so important? To create night and day...a foundational issue for all living creatures. And also because vegetation was the first living creation....though not the same kind of life that animate creatures would enjoy later.
The heavenly bodies only became visible from an earthly perspective on day 4. But their light source was already there.

After dividing the waters that covered the earth into the waters above the atmosphere and the waters below it, God formed the oceans and made dry land appear. If we note where half the waters went (above the expanse) and read 2 Pet 3:5-6, it demonstrates where the water came from when God flooded the earth in Noah’s day. (Gen 7:11) God used both the waters under the earth (aquifers) and the waters above the earth,
to again flood it.

But where did the waters go after the flood? We know that this displacement of the waters above the earth would have altered the climate dramatically and geologists tell us that the earth at one time enjoyed a mild and temperate, uniform climate. But with the removal of that water canopy, extremes of weather could now be experienced.

We also know that the poles are magnetic and that magnetic attraction influences the waters on earth. Tides are the result of the moon’s magnetic effects on earth...so it stands to reason that the magnetic poles drew the water to them and snap froze it in place. Climate change is said to be melting the polar ice caps, which if not halted, will again flood the earth.

These are the kinds of details that the Bible contains, but would never be revealed unless we study the whole ‘library’ of the books it contains. All we need to know is there if we search for it.....most will not put in the effort. Others are too busy defending doctrines to even see how clearly the Bible explains things in simple terms.
By complicating simple concepts, sinful humans muddy the waters and create confusion....most of it is illogical, but the God of the Bible never is. He gave us our sense of logic and has preserved his word, so that what we need to know is provided...but not necessarily all that we want to know....not yet.

I trust him....he knows what he is doing....

Thanks.

It appears that the bibles contain some scriptures but not all. To me that's fine. Even if all the bibles were removed from this planet, this could be a great move by God. Maybe Satan could have some objections. He knows how useful a tool it has been in his hands and that of his minions, angelic and human.

The true children of the Divine Father will have to rely on His indwelling Spirit to lead, feed, protect and supply all our needs. He will be our Teacher and Enabler.

I can't wait for the cleansing of the true body of Christ on the earth so that she experience a thorough detox of all the toxic beliefs and practices that have built up in her. That the Bride of Christ be prepared for Him, made pure and holy.

 

[One 2 question]

the fact that God’s word is still here teaching us about his truth, despite all attempts to destroy it, demonstrates that God has protected and preserved its contents.....when 2 Tim 3:16-17 says that “all scripture is inspired of God”, he meant the word as it was

In His sovereignty God has preserved some of scriptures much was lost, destroyed or hidden. How much only God knows. God has preserved the other religious writings also like the Quran (Islam), the Vedas & Bhagavad Gita (Hinduism), the Torah & Talmud (Judaism), and the Tripitaka (Buddhism).

And the there are the preservation of beings that have survived thousands of years, even ages,like Satan, His angels, Adams sinful descendants. God has endured the destructive use of what exists in His creations, including the bibles. But a time will come when He will bring about a reset. Fantastic! I can't wait for this to happen. I hate the corruption in this world and look forward to the new world when we will be forever with our Creators, seeing Them face to face.

 

[One 2 question]

We are not just talking about things that were experienced, but things that these men wrote that they could not possibly have known any other way.....the creation account for example.

Are you saying that God through His Spirit came to individual humans throughout history like Moses and Isaiah and communicated with them directly giving them revelation of formerly unknown truths? And these were the words of God to His people.

These individuals did not have the Spirit of God in them as Jesus hadn't yet come to redeem humans with His blood, making us holy and able to receive the Holy Spirit Who Jesus sent to us.

So the same Spirit Who, if I could say, only carried along the odd human and gave them new revelations, this same Spirit actually lives INSIDE us. How much more new revelations if He giving to us!

As we have come to know from experience that we don't need human teachers to teach the scriptures, the law, the writings of the prophets etc. We have the Divine Person, the Spirit of Truth Who teaches and reveals sooooo much more than He did in all scriptures.

Before the Spirit came into us humans, yes, the teachers teaching the scriptures was definitely beneficial. But now we have the Spirit....

1 John 2:27 But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

We are not just talking about things that were experienced, but things that these men wrote that they could not possibly have known any other way.....the creation account for example. How could Moses have known the details recorded in that account....not scientific explanations, but simple clear language about what they needed to know, when they needed to know it.

There's a theory that Genesis was a collection of ancient texts from various sources.
Books that Moses got from his father-in-law.

cc: @Wick Stick

 

[Aunty Jane]

In His sovereignty God has preserved some of scriptures much was lost, destroyed or hidden. How much only God knows. God has preserved the other religious writings also like the Quran (Islam), the Vedas & Bhagavad Gita (Hinduism), the Torah & Talmud (Judaism), and the Tripitaka (Buddhism).

I see a difference between what God allows for his own purpose, rather than him preserving these other things that originate from false worship. The empire that the devil created was only possible because God delivered world rulership over to him at the very beginning, in order to prove that he was the better god and ruler for the human race. (Luke 4:5-7)

The devil rules only with God’s permission and he is allowed to go only so far as was demonstrated with Job....his permission of the devil’s rule is not without limits. It is God’s purpose to allow the devil to offer all kinds of religion to humankind and see if their natural inclination is to seek the true God, rather than be presented with false ones and blindly worship them.

And the there are the preservation of beings that have survived thousands of years, even ages,like Satan, His angels, Adams sinful descendants. God has endured the destructive use of what exists in His creations, including the bibles. But a time will come when He will bring about a reset. Fantastic! I can't wait for this to happen. I hate the corruption in this world and look forward to the new world when we will be forever with our Creators, seeing Them face to face.

That is what keeps true Christians from sucumbing to the false religious beliefs and practices that find their origins in satan’s world. He has flooded his world with no end of different gods and “holy” writings. Catering to all religious tastes, it’s like a religious smorgasboard...but people will usually stay with the religion in which they were raised.

Time to an eternal God and to beings who dwell in his timeframe, are vastly different to how we experience time on this tiny planet. But time would have been irrelevant if Adam hadn’t introduced sin, and as a consequence, a limited lifespan, ending in death. If we were given the opportunity to live forever in paradise on earth, why would we turn our back on that and throw it away for a piece of fruit?

That was the scenario, but what it actually meant was way deeper. The fruit of that tree represented God’s Sovereign right to set limits on the free will he had given to them. Satan distorted that to misrepresent God’s intentions, insinuating that he was withholding something to which they had a right.
So right from the beginning it was God’s Sovereignty that was the issue. Satan was given rulership to prove how woefully inadequate he was for the task.....and history has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Real life object lessons are way more powerful than written or spoken ones.

 

[Aunty Jane]

There's a theory that Genesis was a collection of ancient texts from various sources.
Books that Moses got from his father-in-law.

cc: @Wick Stick

Yes...and the Bible does not rule them out. It doesn’t rule out the direct inspiration of those chosen as prophets whom God sent to Israel either. God speaks in more ways than one.

One meaning of “logos” in Greek is spokesman...or one who speaks for God....and we see that “the word” was given this title. This means that communication with God in Israel’s sojourn in the wilderness was by means of his spokesman...the voice heard at the burning bush, and in the the tabernacle where God spoke to Moses.

At Mamre three angels visited Abraham to inform him of Isaac’s future birth...one of those angels spoke for God and could well have been the pre-human Jesus.

Moses was a prophet whose birth and adoption by Pharaoh’s daughter beautifully illustrate that God can orchestrate things way before the person is used by him. Moses was 80 years old when he was sent to liberate Jacob’s descendants.

Joseph is another example of one who was sent ahead of his family to Egypt, years before and under awful circumstances, to ensure their survival through a prolonged drought.
God works in mysterious ways but always accomplishes his will.

 

[One 2 question]

I see a difference between what God allows for his own purpose, rather than him preserving these other things that originate from false worship. The empire that the devil created was only possible because God delivered world rulership over to him at the very beginning, in order to prove that he was the better god and ruler for the human race. (Luke 4:5-75-7

Sure. God's angels wanted to pull out the tares which God allowed to be sown in amongst the wheat. But God said no, let them coexist and grow up together.

Yes, for God's own purposes which He is carrying through Holy Spirit.

I feel for Satan who has been given a lead role as the main villain in a battle he can't win.

 

[Jack]

Sure. God's angels wanted to pull out the tares which God allowed to be sown in amongst the wheat. But God said no, let them coexist and grow up together.

Yes, for God's own purposes which He is carrying through Holy Spirit.

I feel for Satan who has been given a lead role as the main villain in a battle he can't win.

You feel for Satan? Seriously? You should feel for YOU. You said you and Aunty are going to Hell FOREVER and ever! Remember?

 

[One 2 question]

So right from the beginning it was God’s Sovereignty that was the issue. Satan was given rulership to prove how woefully inadequate he was for the task.....and history has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Yes but no. I see that God chose His angel of choice and appointed him to fulfill his current role. And he is carrying it out as planned, no surprise to his Creator.

Satan gets 1000 years off when God puts him in a 'time out' in the abyss. Then God decides to release him for a bit before sending him back for some more time out. I believe this will be for a lot longer, ages. How many only God knows.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you saying that God through His Spirit came to individual humans throughout history like Moses and Isaiah and communicated with them directly giving them revelation of formerly unknown truths? And these were the words of God to His people.

In many cases...yes. The prophets spoke to the people, in words provided by God. He may not have dictated things word for word, but the essence of what he said was carried over in their words.
“This is what Jehovah has said”....was often a prelude to the prophesy.
The revelations that these prophets had, were often difficult for them to put into human vocabulary.

These individuals did not have the Spirit of God in them as Jesus hadn't yet come to redeem humans with His blood, making us holy and able to receive the Holy Spirit Who Jesus sent to us.

When did Jesus need to become human for the Holy Spirit to operate? God’s spirit was the power behind creation.....
The redemption of the human race was only one of the things that Christ accomplished at his death.
It was to facilitate a vindication of his Father’s Sovereignty, and to provide the means by which to restore all that was taken from us with Adam’s sin. God’s rulership was taken away and we were all subjected to satan’s rule....but for a time and a purpose. God’s Kingdom would bring us all back to the beginning, with Jesus as King, leading the way.
The earth itself would also gain a restoration, not just the humans upon it. (Rev 11:18)

So the same Spirit Who, if I could say, only carried along the odd human and gave them new revelations, this same Spirit actually lives INSIDE us. How much more new revelations if He giving to us!

God’s spirit is not really definable as the Bible says it is given in due measure to those to whom God grants it. Even Jesus had to receive the Holy Spirit to begin his earthly mission.

We have an example in Moses when he was finding that carrying the responsibility for the nation of Israel when they were wandering in the wilderness, a load that he felt was too much for him. God told him to select 70 Tribal elders to assist him with his responsibilities. God told Moses that he would take “some of the spirit” that was on Moses and divide it up between the elders. (Numbers 11: 14-17)
That does not describe the Holy Spirit as Christendom defines it.

The spirit that is “inside” of Christ’s disciples is a driving and motivating force that leads those ones to imitate their Lord Jesus in what they do and say....giving them the conviction of their election.

As we have come to know from experience that we don't need human teachers to teach the scriptures, the law, the writings of the prophets etc. We have the Divine Person, the Spirit of Truth Who teaches and reveals sooooo much more than He did in all scriptures.

I guess that for me, I would have a different definition of “we” than many people do.

Before the Spirit came into us humans, yes, the teachers teaching the scriptures was definitely beneficial. But now we have the Spirit....

1 John 2:27 But as for you, Christ has poured out his Spirit on you. As long as his Spirit remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you. For his Spirit teaches you about everything, and what he teaches is true, not false. Obey the Spirit's teaching, then, and remain in union with Christ.

I can see that the devil would have a field day with that statement. Those who claim to have received the holy spirit, do not have a unity of belief (1 Cor 1:10).....are we to assume that God’s spirit gives different beliefs to different disciples of Christ? I would think that unity...a global unity, would identify Christ’s true disciples in these last days....as well as being unitedly “no part of the world”....and not carrying out worship that has man-made doctrines and is steeped in rebranded pagan celebrations.....if they were genuinely following the lead of God’s spirit.....that is what true Christianity has to look like.

Yes but no. I see that God chose His angel of choice and appointed him to fulfill his current role. And he is carrying it out as planned, no surprise to his Creator.

Satan gets 1000 years off when God puts him in a 'time out' in the abyss. Then God decides to release him for a bit before sending him back for some more time out. I believe this will be for a lot longer, ages. How many only God knows.

I have a very different view of that as well....

 

[St. SteVen]

Why I hate the Bible... Or so they say?​

Nonsense. I don't hate the Bible... Or do I?

I do hate the misuse. And I warn about Bibliolatry.
I'm concerned about inflated (and false) claims about the book.
And the general ignorance about where the Bible came from.
Caused by a church that has suppressed the truth about it.
Probably because they think we would leave the church if we really knew.

Discussion questions:
1) What is the best reason to love the Bible?
2) What concerns do you have about the misuse of the Bible?
3) On a scale of 1 to 10 (low to high) how much do you know about where the Bible came from?
4) Thoughts on inerrancy and inspiration. ??? Of the original manuscripts, or our English translations?

 

[Jack]

Why I hate the Bible... Or so they say?​

Nonsense. I don't hate the Bible... Or do I?

I do hate the misuse. And I warn about Bibliolatry.
I'm concerned about inflated (and false) claims about the book.
And the general ignorance about where the Bible came from.
Caused by a church that has suppressed the truth about it.
Probably because they think we would leave the church if we really knew.

Discussion questions:
1) What is the best reason to love the Bible?
2) What concerns do you have about the misuse of the Bible?
3) On a scale of 1 to 10 (low to high) how much do you know about where the Bible came from?
4) Thoughts on inerrancy and inspiration. ??? Of the original manuscripts, or our English translations?

Quoting STV:
"no wonder I don't trust the Bible"
"Death and hell are demons that you worship"
"I'm not convinced that God wanted us to have a Bible"
"Fortunately for me I don't believe in a forever burning hell"
" I disagree with a pre-existent Jesus"
"I'm suggesting that the flood story is a myth"

 

[St. SteVen]

Quoting STV:
"no wonder I don't trust the Bible"
"Every word in the Bible is a parable"
"Death and hell are demons that you worship"
"I'm not convinced that God wanted us to have a Bible"
"Fortunately for me I don't believe in a forever burning hell"
" I disagree with a pre-existent Jesus"
"I'm suggesting that the flood story is a myth"

Nothing about hate there.
(and misquotes)

 

[Anchorite]

This thread contains much that seems to violate the forum’s Rules.

QUOTE

Any derogatory remarks about God (including the Son and Holy Spirit) will be removed. The same goes for remarks about Christianity. Do not hold the Bible to be the Word of God? We are not interested, then.

END QUOTE

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