Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Christian Soldier]

In my view, the word has been mistranslated as love. It should be translated compassion, which is universal.

Love is a natural response to virtue. We love virtue in others. We love it when our sports team win. Our loyalty to them is shown in when they loose, we proclaim, "they stink." When they win, we proclaim, "we won."

We like a little virtue. We love a lot of virtue. If the person embraces vice, our like and love naturally retreats. Compassion, even for ones enemies, is much more a rational way to understand the Biblical ethic. It's foolish to try to jam what we love, virtue, into the Biblical narrative of agape, universal compassion, even for those with no redeeming virtues.

Thank you for sharing your view of what the word "love" means. You're entitled to express your private opinion, but in this case your view doesn't line up with Gods Word.

Gods Word reveals that "God is love", so we should take that fact into consideration. If you believe that God is love, then you would agree that we can only love, because God first loved us. He loved His people while we were His enemies, He laid down His life and gave it freely to save His enemies.

There is no greater love, than to suffer and die for your enemies. This is exactly what the Lord Jesus did, He prayed that the Father would forgive them, while they were torturing Him to death.

I would agree that "Compassion" is a component of love, and think those who translated and interpreted the scriptures got it right by using the word love. I believe some of the early translations had the word "charity" instead of love, in them.

I don't think anyone truly understands what love is, we can get a sense of what it means but our understanding is very limited because of our fallen nature. God is a mystery to us and so is true love.

As fallen humans, we only love those who love us and do good works for us. We try to love our enemies, but we can never love them in the same way God loved those of us He saved, while we were His enemies.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Do you follow the 10 commandments from the heart, like Jesus asked his believers to?

View attachment 76350

No, sadly I don't keep any the 10 commandments, because I can't. My old sin nature still cries out to have it's lust satisfied. I resist it as much as I can, but it still overcomes me at times.

But I thank God that my salvation is not dependant on my ability to keep the commandments or law. The Lord Jesus has already paid the penalty for all of my past, present and future sins, so I can be filled with the joy of knowing that my salvation is eternally secure and no amount of sin can cause me to lose my salvation.

I'm sure you're aware of the examples we have in the Bible, where Gods elect commit sins like murder and adultery. And God forgives them when they repent and they are restored to the Church (His Body).
That forgiveness and restoration is not available to those who God did not chose/elect for salvation before time began.

May you also have a blessed Christmas

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

My old sin nature still cries out to have it's lust satisfied. I resist it as much as I can, but it still overcomes me at times.

Wow that's really sad.

You got born again and you are still living in sinful behavior out lying, stealing, doing idolatry, using God's Name in vain, etc, etc.

Sounds like you didn't become a new creature in Christ Jesus.

You should get born again ditching that sin nature and get filled with the Holy Ghost!

Best place to start is ditch the fake reformed theology that teaches you were born a sinner and will never ever be able to stop sinning which was authored by the devil to trick people in to not believing what God's Word teaches

 

[Wrangler]

Thank you for sharing your view of what the word "love" means. You're entitled to express your private opinion, but in this case your view doesn't line up with Gods Word.

Cool! I don’t care what your private interpretation of God’s word is.

 

[Wrangler]

Gods Word reveals that "God is love",

In contrast to God is compassion?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Lets take a look at what you believe, based on the ideas you have been stating in this thread. Two ideas, election of believers, and the idea that a believer cannot loose salvation. These two ideas only exists in a systematic theology known as Calvinism. Calvinism also has three other ideas that are essential to understanding his entire doctrine. Total depravity of man, limited atonement, and irresistible grace.

Historically, none of these have ever been part of the teaching of the Church from the beginning and since. Only one idea, election, a very simple concept written by Augustine, but was never taught by the Church, existed in some form earlier than Calvin who is a 16th century theologian.
If one holds to the idea that the Holy Spirit gives to each person individualized truth and that is why in Protestantism you can get hundreds, even thousands of truths, all making the same claim as you have been. Historically, any man who developed an idea that was not held, believed or practiced by the Church from the beginning ended up as a heretic and his ideas condemned. Yet you hold to some ideas that historically were developed by a man 1500+ years from the Apostolic times.
My question to you is, did the Holy Spirit change the meaning of the Apostolic writings in giving new inspiration to individuals? If so, then all of the men who originated these hundreds of denominations, all different is some way from another, still All Truth? Or can we just believe anything our little egos come up with on our own or adopt ideas from other men, long after the Apostolic times and call them the meaning of scripture?

Now, lets look at scripture and what beliefs that have been held from the beginning. Total depravity, Scripture says that every human being has been given the ability and capability to understand God. Rom 1:18-24. Every single human being, individually, based on their own choices will be held accountable to what they did with this knowledge, Rom 2:6-8, Rev 20:11-13. No election of believers. It is antithetical to who God is. One becomes an elect by belief, baptism.
Limited atonement. Impossible. If Christ assumed our human natures, and raised them to life, how can that be limited? Do we divide Christ? I Cor 15:21-22 clears that up. Irresistible grace. If God gives man free will to choose for himself who he will believe and follow, than it would be possible for a believer to reject God and leave the fold. There are approximately 200 texts in the NT that state this is possible. If irresistable grace is false, then perseverance of the saints is also false since the latter follows the former.

To hold your views, one must either deny most of scripture, or twist them by changing the meaning of words to align with a particular view,such as Calvinism.
By the way, the idea that a believer cannot loose his salvation is actually true but not the way you and others hold. Its true because scripture never states that a believer HAS salvation in the present of one's lifetime,. It all about losing faith! Salvation is inherited at the end of life. I Pet 3-5. And who gets that salvation? Those that endure to the end. What is enduring? Being faithful in one's commitment to love, serve Christ, to become imitators of Him. That takes effort, oh yea, works. See James 2:23-25.

Merry Christmas,

OK, so now you've confirmed that you are a devout follower of Jacob Arminius and his false (saved by works) version of the gospel. You're pushing the "saved by works" version but you know that Gods said "salvation is by grace".
The sad thing is, you are so blinded by 'the doctrine of demons", that your not even aware of the deception and delusion.

I'm not going to list any scriptures that confirm the bible doctrines of, "total depravity", "unconditional election", "limited atonement", "irresistible grace", and "perseverance of the saints".
I'll be brutally honest with you here and give you the awful truth, that only Gods elect actually receive the truth as it is.

Those whom God did not chose for salvation, cannot and never will be able to understand it, because you must first be indwelt by the Holy Spirit to receive spiritual things, otherwise they remain foolishness to you forever. You have been rejecting Gods Word as foolishness when I refer to the scriptures and bible doctrines which confirm the awful truth of the matter.

You have twisted every verse of scripture in your list, in a vein attempt to force them into your unbiblical theology.

You tried to twist Romans 1:18-24 to make it say that it proves that God gave every single person the gift of the Holy Spirit. But the passage itself exposes your heretical view by revealing that, they are without excuse because Gods has revealed Himself through His creation.
The last verse there confirms that they are not the elect of God and they are in fact reprobate, 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves.

Do you even know what it means when God gives you up to serve your sin and Satan???, well it means your sealed for hell, so your false doctrine collapses like a house of cards.

You then go on and attempt to pervert the meaning of Romans 2:6-8 by claiming that it proves your saved by works heresy, but it does no such thing, and instead it proves that God does not create anyone for the express purpose of casing them into hell, because it shows they all get exactly what they deserve according to what they have done and not what God forced them to do as your Arminian heresy tries to accuse our God of doing.

You then tried to twist Revelation 20:11-13 to help your hopeless cause, but it only confirms election by stating 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. I'm wondering if you even have the capacity to connect the dots and realize that the "Book of Life" was written before the world was created. So that blows the "you're not save until you complete the "works" false version.

You then attempted to pervert 1 Cor 15:21-22 to make it lie and say that the Lord tried to save every single person. But the passage doesn't say anything of the sort. It merely confirms that those in Adam died and those in Christ are made alive. It doesn't say every single person at all, you just make stuff up, in a desperate to give your dead gospel oxygen.

 

[Rightglory]

OK, so now you've confirmed that you are a devout follower of Jacob Arminius and his false (saved by works) version of the gospel. You're pushing the "saved by works" version but you know that Gods said "salvation is by grace".
The sad thing is, you are so blinded by 'the doctrine of demons", that your not even aware of the deception and delusion.

Your irrelevant tirade seems to be your mantra, even if it refers to historical facts. Grace is the underlying principle all of salvation. It is the primary work of Christ toward His creation via His Incarnation. All humanity has been saved from death, Unfortunately you do not recognize the Christ of scripture.

I'm not going to list any scriptures that confirm the bible doctrines of, "total depravity", "unconditional election", "limited atonement", "irresistible grace", and "perseverance of the saints".

There are only forced meanings of these terms by Calvin. However, Calvain came 1500 years after the Apostles who taught the Gosple for a quarter century before any of it was ever written. The terms ONLY exist in your theology adopted from Calvin. You are welcome to it.

I'll be brutally honest with you here and give you the awful truth, that only Gods elect actually receive the truth as it is.

Those whom God did not chose for salvation, cannot and never will be able to understand it, because you must first be indwelt by the Holy Spirit to receive spiritual things, otherwise they remain foolishness to you forever. You have been rejecting Gods Word as foolishness when I refer to the scriptures and bible doctrines which confirm the awful truth of the matter.

You have twisted every verse of scripture in your list, in a vein attempt to force them into your unbiblical theology

It is twisted from your vantage point. However, you cannot change factual history.

You tried to twist Romans 1:18-24 to make it say that it proves that God gave every single person the gift of the Holy Spirit. But the passage itself exposes your heretical view by revealing that, they are without excuse because Gods has revealed Himself through His creation.

Amazing you come up with such an assumption, then you make a statement that is true. Man is without excuse because made it possible for every human being to know God. Those that reject that knowledge will face eternal damnation. You got that part correct.

The last verse there confirms that they are not the elect of God and they are in fact reprobate, 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves.

Now you need to revert back to your personal theology again. It shows the choice men make. It has nothing to do with God choosing anyone. God desires all men to know Him and to worship and be in communion with Him, God never chooses anyone for individual salvation. Man chooses which is why God can judge justly.

Do you even know what it means when God gives you up to serve your sin and Satan???, well it means your sealed for hell, so your false doctrine collapses like a house of cards.

You then go on and attempt to pervert the meaning of Romans 2:6-8 by claiming that it proves your saved by works heresy, but it does no such thing, and instead it proves that God does not create anyone for the express purpose of casing them into hell, because it shows they all get exactly what they deserve according to what they have done and not what God forced them to do as your Arminian heresy tries to accuse our God of doing.

You then tried to twist Revelation 20:11-13 to help your hopeless cause, but it only confirms election by stating 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. I'm wondering if you even have the capacity to connect the dots and realize that the "Book of Life" was written before the world was created. So that blows the "you're not save until you complete the "works" false version.

You then attempted to pervert 1 Cor 15:21-22 to make it lie and say that the Lord tried to save every single person. But the passage doesn't say anything of the sort. It merely confirms that those in Adam died and those in Christ are made alive. It doesn't say every single person at all, you just make stuff up, in a desperate to give your dead gospel oxygen.

Your last statement shows you are not very good a math either. I Cor 15:21-22 is an equation. If you want it to mean as you want, then not all men became mortal and would die. There should be people still living on this earth from the time of Adam, or a least Christ onoly bor one of at least two forms of human nature. Could you point out any human who has a different nature that you and not covered by Christ's humanity? Again, historically, no man lives forever on this earth. We all die and there is only one human nature. However, because Christ came Incarnated and became the first fruit of the resurrection, every single human being will be raised to life, immortality. I Cor 15:53-54 states this as well. You need to read scripture with more care and study. Heb 2:14-17 confirms this as well. You are denying the very Christ you claim to believe, yet apparently He never either died, or if died never rose from the greave, or did but it had no effect on creation, meaning His work was useless. He died just like any other man.
By the way, you seem to believe in Hell. Yet, if I Cor 15: 21-22 is as you say, then there can be no hell. There would be no one in it. Only those you call elect will be in heaven since Christ did not raise all other human life thereby would experience hell for their rejection of Christ. See, your theology is not consistent.

A person does not even need to believe in scripture but only study the history of the Church and its use of scripture to learn what it means. Yet you are so committed to your view that you actually need to deny historical record.
You should also study the concept of "foreknowledge" as you fail to understand it as well. But then Calvin didn't understand it either.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Wow that's really sad.

You got born again and you are still living in sinful behavior out lying, stealing, doing idolatry, using God's Name in vain, etc, etc.

Sounds like you didn't become a new creature in Christ Jesus.

You should get born again ditching that sin nature and get filled with the Holy Ghost!

Best place to start is ditch the fake reformed theology that teaches you were born a sinner and will never ever be able to stop sinning which was authored by the devil to trick people in to not believing what God's Word teaches

What's there to be sad about, when I've been forgiven for all of my past present and future sins. It's actually the greatest blessing and it gives me eternal joy to know that I am free from guilt and condemnation.
So your logic is twisted beyond recognition, you will never find a single verse of scripture to support your fantasy.

I never said I was "living in sinful behaviour, so stop making up lies. Satan and His children do that, so don't associate yourself with them, unless you are one of them.

You're obviously clueless about what it means to be born again. I don't have the time to educate you but you can join a bible class for beginners, to learn the basics and then you might be equipped to make a sensible comment instead of spewing out ridiculous lies and nonsense.

Where does reformed theology teach that Gods elect will never ever be able to stop sinning, that's another one of your lies, which you learned from your father.

Making up lies without any evidence, reveals the level of your depravity.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Cool! I don’t care what your private interpretation of God’s word is.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Your irrelevant tirade seems to be your mantra, even if it refers to historical facts. Grace is the underlying principle all of salvation. It is the primary work of Christ toward His creation via His Incarnation. All humanity has been saved from death, Unfortunately you do not recognize the Christ of scripture.

There are only forced meanings of these terms by Calvin. However, Calvain came 1500 years after the Apostles who taught the Gosple for a quarter century before any of it was ever written. The terms ONLY exist in your theology adopted from Calvin. You are welcome to it.

It is twisted from your vantage point. However, you cannot change factual history.

Amazing you come up with such an assumption, then you make a statement that is true. Man is without excuse because made it possible for every human being to know God. Those that reject that knowledge will face eternal damnation. You got that part correct.

Now you need to revert back to your personal theology again. It shows the choice men make. It has nothing to do with God choosing anyone. God desires all men to know Him and to worship and be in communion with Him, God never chooses anyone for individual salvation. Man chooses which is why God can judge justly.

Your last statement shows you are not very good a math either. I Cor 15:21-22 is an equation. If you want it to mean as you want, then not all men became mortal and would die. There should be people still living on this earth from the time of Adam, or a least Christ onoly bor one of at least two forms of human nature. Could you point out any human who has a different nature that you and not covered by Christ's humanity? Again, historically, no man lives forever on this earth. We all die and there is only one human nature. However, because Christ came Incarnated and became the first fruit of the resurrection, every single human being will be raised to life, immortality. I Cor 15:53-54 states this as well. You need to read scripture with more care and study. Heb 2:14-17 confirms this as well. You are denying the very Christ you claim to believe, yet apparently He never either died, or if died never rose from the greave, or did but it had no effect on creation, meaning His work was useless. He died just like any other man.
By the way, you seem to believe in Hell. Yet, if I Cor 15: 21-22 is as you say, then there can be no hell. There would be no one in it. Only those you call elect will be in heaven since Christ did not raise all other human life thereby would experience hell for their rejection of Christ. See, your theology is not consistent.

A person does not even need to believe in scripture but only study the history of the Church and its use of scripture to learn what it means. Yet you are so committed to your view that you actually need to deny historical record.
You should also study the concept of "foreknowledge" as you fail to understand it as well. But then Calvin didn't understand it either.

Your version of the gospel, is the exact opposite to the one I find in the Bible. Every single one of your views, is based on Arminianism, (which was well and truly debunked) by John Calvin 500 years ago, Yet you're still holding to this false (saved by works) version of the gospel.

I find your suggestion that "grace is the underlying principle in all of salvation", highly offensive., because Gods Word reveals that salvation is "by grace". So grace is not one of the ingredients of salvation, it is everything.

To suggest that "All humanity has been saved from death", is even more offensive and a down right blasphemous lie. You will never find a single verse of scripture to support this ridiculous lie. The truth is "all humanity is born dead and all remain dead forever, except for the small number of us who God chose to save before time began".

I only follow the Lord Jesus and I only believe what He taught. He did teach "Total depravity", He did teach "Unconditional Election", He did teach "Limited Atonement", He did teach "Irresistible Grace", He did teach "Perseverance of the saints".
All of that means that the Lord Jesus taught the "saved by grace" gospel.

I can hear you saying, OK, saved by grace but what about my faith, aren't we saved by our faith as well as grace. But the answer is no, you don't have any faith unless God chose you and then gave you the gift of grace and then gave you the gift of faith to receive the grace.

Salvation originates entirely with God (Salvation is of the Lord), from eternal election to final glorification. No human contribution, effort, or merit, however small, earns or contributes to being saved.
Saving faith isn't something people generate; it's a divine impartation, a spiritual ability given by God to those He regenerates.

God must first make a person spiritually alive (regenerate them) before they can exercise faith in Jesus. All human beings are born spiritually dead in sin, we lack the inherent ability to choose God; faith is God's work in the heart, consistent with the doctrine of "irresistible grace".

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith—and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not a result of works, so that no one may boast".

God does not desire all men to know Him and to worship and be in communion with Him, God only choose His elect for salvation. The natural (non elect) Man only chooses evil all the time, which is why God can judge justly.

There are only two types of people, 1. Gods children (the elect of God) and 2. The children of the Devil (those God didn't chose for salvation). You will never find a single verse in the bible to show this is not true.

 

[Berean]

Yes, see Hebrews 11 which contains names of OT saints who were saved and are in the Hall of Fame of Faith

Under the old covenant those who were saved were preserves in Abraham's bosom which was a temporary holding place for OT saints where they would stay until the new birth became available thru Jesus

So only the "OT saints" were saved? What about the millions outside of the OT saints?

During the 3 days and nights Jesus spent in the belly of the earth, He preached to these folks and they all got born again thru the Doctrine of Christ which Jesus preached to them.

Where does it say Jesus preached to these ... as you call them "folks"?

 

[rvmb]

I don't get to choose what to believe and what not to believe about what God said. He said it and I simply believe everything He said, so I don't agree with your cherry picking approach, where you believe this but don't believe that.

Here are some verses which show that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the truth. And don't deny the fact that you place all of your trust and hope on your good works to save you, that's exactly what you believe so there's no point in denying it.

Romans 9:11-13 "For, not yet having been born nor having done anything good or bad...it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.' As it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" This shows God's choice was not based on works.

Notice how God already hated Esau, before He was born?

Romans 9:15-16 "For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who shows mercy." Election is God's prerogative.

Ephesians 1:4-5 "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." God's purpose, not our actions, is the basis.

2 Timothy 1:9 "Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our works, but because of His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began." Grace precedes any human action.

I don't know if God has chosen you for salvation or not, only He knows it and the regenerated individual know. Nobody else knows for sure, since some are regenerated and saved on their death bed. So I would never write anyone off, no matter how depraved they are. God saves murderers and adulterers and every other kind of sinner.

God has never revealed why He chose His elect onto salvation, that's His business, He can do whatever He wants with His creation. And nobody has any authority to question or challenge Him in any way.

""I don't get to choose what to believe and what not to believe about what God said. He said it and I simply believe everything He said, so I don't agree with your cherry picking approach, where you believe this but don't believe that.""
***
Do you believe GOD blindly chooses who will be saved ?
1 Tim 2:44 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[rvmb]

Regardless of when the Lord said what He said in 2 Timothy 3:16 thru the Apostle Paul has no bearing on it's truthfulness.

Notice the ALL part:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness





The Apostle taught the Doctrine of Christ which is what saves.

Job was in Abraham's bosom and Jesus taught the Gospel to the OT saints when He went in to hell and they all got born again.

So Job got saved by the same Doctrine of Christ taught b y the Apostles which we find in the New Testament.

Regardless of when the Lord said what He said in 2 Timothy 3:16 thru the Apostle Paul has no bearing on it's truthfulness.

Notice the ALL part:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness





The Apostle taught the Doctrine of Christ which is what saves.

How did the teachings of the 12 save Job ?and Jesus taught the Gospel to the OT saints when He went in to hell and they all got born again.

So Job got saved by the same Doctrine of Christ taught b y the Apostles which we find in the New Testament.

So Job was saved because before he died he :-
Repented
Was baptized
Received the HS
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
and he got taught that before he died ?
List the verses

 

[Christian Soldier]

""I don't get to choose what to believe and what not to believe about what God said. He said it and I simply believe everything He said, so I don't agree with your cherry picking approach, where you believe this but don't believe that.""
***
Do you believe GOD blindly chooses who will be saved ?
1 Tim 2:44 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I can't get into the mind of God, to find out exactly why He chose some and not everyone for salvation.

God's has revealed something about His sovereign choice in salvation, in verses like Ephesians 1:4-5, where believers are chosen before creation for His praise, and Romans 9:11-23, highlighting God's mercy and choice over human works, using the potter analogy. Key scriptures also point to election being for glory (2 Thessalonians 2:13), according to His will (Ephesians 1:5), and for holiness (1 Peter 1:2).

God's choice is independent of human merit or action. Election is based on God's own good will, not our performance. The ultimate goal of election is God's glory. God's foreknowledge is determinative, not just awareness. The Bible speaks of choosing people to salvation, not to damnation; sin is the cause of damnation.

1 Tim 2:44 was written to Jewish believers, who thought that the Lord Jesus came to save only them and not the Gentiles. So Paul emphasised that God will have "all men" (not only the Jews) to be saved. "all men" doesn't mean every single person in the world.

To suggest that God tried to save every single person and failed miserably, would suggest that God is not almighty if He fails to achieve His goals.

 

[LoveYeshua]

No, sadly I don't keep any the 10 commandments, because I can't. My old sin nature still cries out to have it's lust satisfied. I resist it as much as I can, but it still overcomes me at times.

But I thank God that my salvation is not dependant on my ability to keep the commandments or law. The Lord Jesus has already paid the penalty for all of my past, present and future sins, so I can be filled with the joy of knowing that my salvation is eternally secure and no amount of sin can cause me to lose my salvation.

I'm sure you're aware of the examples we have in the Bible, where Gods elect commit sins like murder and adultery. And God forgives them when they repent and they are restored to the Church (His Body).
That forgiveness and restoration is not available to those who God did not chose/elect for salvation before time began.

May you also have a blessed Christmas

I feared it was so, Jesus clearly said if you love me keep my commandments. Please understand that jesus said he would ( AND DID) send the Holy Spirit to help with this task! the Holy Spirit was not available before Jesus death. How will you make it id you do not believe him when he said;

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32)
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(Mat 19:17) THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL

Jesus also said;

Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do do what i say"????

Please do not tell me it is my own theology this is what Jesus said himself.

YES it is possible to keep the commandments, it may seem a bit hard at the beginning but TRUST what Jesus said and what he did for us, He made all this possible, we all fail on occasion but we must persist this is what Jesus asks us to do to persevere until out last breath. The penalty of Sin was paid in full and we may stumble but if we repent and let the Spirit change us we all can if we want to.

As for desires, God does ask us to master it, if he says so, it can be done.

Gen 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires you, but you must master it.”

Yes it requires effort but the Holy Spirit makes all things possible, Do not doubt, strengthen your faith, trust completely God and it shall be possible, it is Why Jesus said he would send us the Holy Spirit.

We are constantly tested by life and the evil of this world but we must persevere, and take it one day at a time.

Blessings.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Wow that's really sad.

You got born again and you are still living in sinful behavior out lying, stealing, doing idolatry, using God's Name in vain, etc, etc.

Sounds like you didn't become a new creature in Christ Jesus.

You should get born again ditching that sin nature and get filled with the Holy Ghost!

Best place to start is ditch the fake reformed theology that teaches you were born a sinner and will never ever be able to stop sinning which was authored by the devil to trick people in to not believing what God's Word teaches

A transformed heart does take time and is not instant, perseverance is Key!, Lets not accuse our brother here but instead encourage him and help to strengthen his faith.

 

[LoveYeshua]

you go with hypothetical always, the fact is Judas did not repent or ask forgiveness.

 

[Rightglory]

Your version of the gospel, is the exact opposite to the one I find in the Bible. Every single one of your views, is based on Arminianism, (which was well and truly debunked) by John Calvin 500 years ago, Yet you're still holding to this false (saved by works) version of the gospel.

Are these the only two men you recognize in history, Calvin and Arminius? I don't hold to any man made theory of what scripture means. History shows that any interpretation of scripture by a man turns into a heresy, as I pointed out for Calvinism. For you, apparently Arminianism is your heresy, which it is relative to Calvinism, "reformed theology".

I find your suggestion that "grace is the underlying principle in all of salvation", highly offensive., because Gods Word reveals that salvation is "by grace". So grace is not one of the ingredients of salvation, it is everything.

Grace is the underlying of everything that exists. If it was not for God's grace in upholding the universe, you would evaporate instantly. We and the earth are created by God and He upholds all things.

To suggest that "All humanity has been saved from death", is even more offensive and a down right blasphemous lie. You will never find a single verse of scripture to support this ridiculous lie. The truth is "all humanity is born dead and all remain dead forever, except for the small number of us who God chose to save before time began".

I only follow the Lord Jesus and I only believe what He taught. He did teach "Total depravity", He did teach "Unconditional Election", He did teach "Limited Atonement", He did teach "Irresistible Grace", He did teach "Perseverance of the saints".

None of these ideas exists in any scripture as it has meant from the beginning. They are novel, misinterpretations, imposed ideas upon scripture. Limited atonement is probably the most gross misinterpretation of scripture. We just celebrated Christmas. Christ came into this world Incarnated of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. He became man, as we are, took on Himself our human nature so that He is consubstantial with His creation. By His resurrection of that same human nature, He restored life, eternal existence not just to all human beings but the world itself. This is why we will all be raised in the last day, every single human being. There will be a new heaven and a new earth because of that resurrection. All the texts, possible 15-20 that I cited in our first discourse all refer to Christ's Incarnation and its effect upon creation.
To believe that scripture teaches "limited atonement" which is an impossibility because of the Incarnation, makes Christ and our salvation meaningless. We are still condemned to death through Adam and when we die, we simply cease to exist, there is no eternity of any kind.
Apparently you do not understand the full meaning of the fall of man, of Adam. There is a reason why we refer to Adam as the first Adam and Christ the second Adam. Christ came to reverse the fall of man and restore tlhe created order back to its original purpose. It is why I Cor 15:21-22 is an equation.

All of that means that the Lord Jesus taught the "saved by grace" gospel.

Yes He did, but you fail to understand what that actually means. Not only saved by Grace, but we exist by Grace. Everything that exists in this world is by His grace. He created this world by His Grace.

Ev
I can hear you saying, OK, saved by grace but what about my faith, aren't we saved by our faith as well as grace. But the answer is no, you don't have any faith unless God chose you and then gave you the gift of grace and then gave you the gift of faith to receive the grace.

We are also saved through our faith. God has given each human being the capability, ability to believe, a measure of faith. It is what man does with God's universal call to repent, believe and be saved. God choose not a single human being, respective of our subjective salvation, our individual salvation. Calvin missed this whole concept of election. Just some scriptural theology for your enlightenment, there are 5 uses of election (three are groups and two are individuals). None for salvation as understood by Calvin. Here they are, Christ, Isreal, Christ Body, the Church, the elect, the Apostles, and Paul.

Salvation originates entirely with God (Salvation is of the Lord), from eternal election to final glorification. No human contribution, effort, or merit, however small, earns or contributes to being saved.
Saving faith isn't something people generate; it's a divine impartation, a spiritual ability given by God to those He regenerates.

So Calvin says, but scripture differs. You are correct we don't originate it, it is part of our human existence, our nature. It's all about what we do with what is given to each. The parable of the talents, explains that to us. We are not being saved by faith, we are justified by faith, meaning to be put into a correct relationship with God which begins with belief, then baptism, entrance into His Kingdom, "this is what regeneration consists. We are being put back into the same relationship Adam had with God in the beginning. Adam was supposed to work with God bringing himself and creation back to God as a living sacrifice. He failed. Now we have been redeemed and by believing in that Savior, we entered into a relationship that requires every follower to work toward being more Christlike, To remain faithful and grow. We inherit our personal salvation at the end. If faithful, which is man's responsibility, not God's, we inherit eternal life WITH Him, if we reject Him, eternal existence APART from Him.

God must first make a person spiritually alive (regenerate them) before they can exercise faith in Jesus. All human beings are born spiritually dead in sin, we lack the inherent ability to choose God; faith is God's work in the heart, consistent with the doctrine of "irresistible grace".

Again, so says Calvin, Scripture reverses the sequence. Man must first respond to God's universal call to repentance. He uses many ways to accomplish this. When man response to believe, one is baptised, which is the regeneration. We join His Kingdom and begin a journey of faith with Him as we all were created to have with Him. It is why we were created in the first place.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith—and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not a result of works, so that no one may boast".

Fully agree

God does not desire all men to know Him and to worship and be in communion with Him, God only choose His elect for salvation. The natural (non elect) Man only chooses evil all the time, which is why God can judge justly.

God did not create man for the purpose of destroying him.
As explained already, God does not chose who will be saved individually, You believe in a very unjust God. God is love, it is not even possible for God to not love. He will love all His creatures, even those that end up in hell. We will always be creatures, created by Him and will of necessity uphold all things even in eternity, even those in hell.

There are only two types of people, 1. Gods children (the elect of God) and 2. The children of the Devil (those God didn't chose for salvation). You will never find a single verse in the bible to show this is not true.

Most of scripture denies all of the above. Calvin's theology just could not recognize it because it did not align with the other principle aspects of his theology.
The above is an afront to who God is and why He created this world.

 

[GodsGrace]

A transformed heart does take time and is not instant, perseverance is Key!, Lets not accuse our brother here but instead encourage him and help to strengthen his faith.

I agree, but if someone knows they're sinning....should they not stop?
Or maybe the other member just means that he falls into sin as everyone does...
but it sounds worse than that --- but I won't be the judge although Jesus did say to rescue a sinner in Matthew 18.
And Paul said to bring back a wanderer....

 

[LoveYeshua]

I agree, but if someone knows they're sinning....should they not stop?
Or maybe the other member just means that he falls into sin as everyone does...
but it sounds worse than that --- but I won't be the judge although Jesus did say to rescue a sinner in Matthew 18.
And Paul said to bring back a wanderer....

Exactly we cannot Judge, and yes they should stop. Not everyone receives the same measure of the Holy Spirit, it can take time for someone's heart to be transformed, another hurdle for many is pride also one must listen and read the word of God/Jesus with an open heart.

Also many are aware of Jesus but Follow Paul instead, the gospels are similar, Jesus focuses on repentance, the Kingdom of Heaven the ten commandments, Paul's mostly on Jesus and the cross and what it represents, Unfortunately many who strictly follow Paul forget that the ten commandments are the covenant and lead to eternal Life. These ten commandments put in the hearts of true believers by the grace and Power of the Holy Spirit, to the ones who hear and Follow Christ. Only Jesus words can save, He is the Light of the world and many fall away, Many many reasons can lead some on the wrong path.

We must use patience and try to bring back people towards Christ who is the only way to eternal life, time is short and the work is hard but must me done to grow the Kingdom of Heaven.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Blessings to you always Sister.