The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[Davy]

What is God's law?
Get your definitions straight please.

It's obvious the 'idea' of definitions don't really work with you, since you came up with your own as shown in that link.

Therefore, answer me this. When Apostle Paul said the following Scripture section I have underlined below, what was Paul quoting from? Where did Paul get that from?

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What is God's law?
Get your definitions straight please.

It's obvious the 'idea' of definitions don't really work with you, since you came up with your own as shown in that link.

My definitions are defended biblically.

Therefore, answer me this. When Apostle Paul said the following Scripture section I have underlined below, what was Paul quoting from? Where did Paul get that from?

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

According to my definitions, this is speaking about the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
Not to be confused with the Law (capital L), God's law, or Christ's law.

Get your definitions straight please.

[

 

[Davy]

St. SteVen said:
What is God's law?
Get your definitions straight please.

My definitions are defended biblically.

According to my definitions, this is speaking about the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses.
Not to be confused with the Law (capital L), God's law, or Christ's law.

Get your definitions straight please.

[

It's not me that needs to be clear about the idea of the word 'law'.

What Paul was quoting there in 1 Timothy 1 was God's Law from The Old Testament. God did not just give one part of His Law through Moses. All of it was given through Moses.

And the names used in The New Testament for the portions of GOD'S LAWS which Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross is called the "royal law" and "law of liberty" by Apostle James, "law of faith", "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", "law of righteousness", "law of Christ", BECAUSE it is about Christ's commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself, WHICH ORIGINATES FROM LEVITICUS 19:18, which is GOD'S LAW.

Thus all you do is CONFUSE the idea of the word 'law'. And that is usually done by those who seek to CHANGE what God's Word actually teaches!

 

[Wick Stick]

St. SteVen said:
The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

I agree that the Books of the Law (capital L) were gathered (curated) from various sources.
But I am referring to "the law". The law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses which did not arrive until Exodus chapter 20.
Sabbath law in Exodus 16. (manna collection)

God dictated THESE laws to Moses and he wrote them down. (later) ??? See Exodus chapters 20-31.

Exodus 31:18 NIV
When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai,
he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law,
the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

[

I don't think most of the 10 commandments were created on that day, on that mountaintop.

Virtually every country already had laws against theft (#8) and murder (#6). Real property (#10) and Jurisprudence based on witnesses (#9) had already been established in Mesopotamia 1000 years earlier. The keeping of Sabbath (#4) had been practiced nearly that long by the Amorites. Monaltrism (#1) was already common outside of Egypt. The prohibition of idols (#2) was already a tenet held of Abraham and his descendants.

That leaves just 2 commandments that appear to have been original to Moses:
Capital punishment for false prophets (#3)
Support of the elderly (#5)

I think it's fair to generalize the 10 commandments as saying, "we're not going to do it the Egyptian way, we're going to do it the same way our forefathers did."

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't think most of the 10 commandments were created on that day, on that mountaintop.

I agree.
Except for the Sabbath commandment they are what I consider to be God's law.

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Davy]

I don't think most of the 10 commandments were created on that day, on that mountaintop.

Virtually every country already had laws against theft (#8) and murder (#6). Real property (#10) and Jurisprudence based on witnesses (#9) had already been established in Mesopotamia 1000 years earlier. The keeping of Sabbath (#4) had been practiced nearly that long by the Amorites. Monaltrism (#1) was already common outside of Egypt. The prohibition of idols (#2) was already a tenet held of Abraham and his descendants.

....

It actually goes deeper and back further in history than that, and what you suggested with pointing to God's law existing prior to Moses is most accurate.

Many brethren are on the New Earth Creationist (NEC) boat. I am not; I believe in an Old Creation. And the reason why I believe that is because God's Word actually teaches it because of God's parable in Ezekiel 28 about Lucifer using the "king of Tyrus" as a type.

In that Ezekiel 28 parable, God showed that He originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways, and that Lucifer was highly exalted as an anointed cherub that covereth (guarding the Mercy Seat of God's Throne). That clearly was prior... to Lucifer's sin against God in coveting God's throne for himself. The only... Scripture in Genesis 1 that can point to that previous world when Lucifer followed God and was perfect, is the Genesis 1:1 verse when God created the heavens and the earth in the "beginning". By the time of the Genesis 1:2 verse, the Hebrew shows the earth had become in a condition of a waste and an undistinguishable ruin (the actual meaning of Hebrew tohu va bohu translated as "without form, and void".)

Here's the gist; how... could Lucifer have sinned in the beginning, like Apostle John said in 1 John 3:8, if God's laws did not yet exist? For like Apostle John also said, "sin is the transgression of the law"? (1 John 3:4) Because what Lucifer did at his original rebellion and fall is Biblically defined as sin, then that makes certain that God's law existed already back then.

But for this present world, a 2nd world earth age, God's law for sin was applied differently, as God waited... until it was time to give His law to Israel under the old covenant, and then applied in final per Christ Jesus with The New Covenant...

Acts 17:29-30
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
KJV

Acts 14:15-16
15 And saying, "Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, Which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways."
KJV

What many brethren don't understand about God's law under The New Covenant is that per Hebrews 8:12-16, that God under Lord Jesus Christ would write His laws in our hearts, and put His laws in our minds, and He would be unto us The GOD, and we as His people. That is exactly one of main functions of The Holy Spirit under Jesus Christ and The New Covenant.

This is why those in Christ with The Holy Spirit will be given a Holy Spirit unction when they are getting ready to stumble into sin against God's laws. Those brethren who reject that Holy Spirit unction thus cut themselves off from The Holy Spirit, and are actually trying to go it alone, and do not realize those who lead them to that wrong notion about The New Covenant are actually leading them into sin and hell.

 

[Jack]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

]

Is there any Book in the Bible that you believe is God's written Word? How many times do I need to ask, stevie? To ignore is clearly you implying ZERO!

 

[Waiting on him]

I agree.
Except for the Sabbath commandment they are what I consider to be God's law.

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

www.christianityboard.com

[

According to Jesus in the Gospel of John, the bread that Moses gave them in the wilderness didn’t come from his Father.

My question would be,,, what did Moses give them,,, a serpent? A stone?

 

[St. SteVen]

According to Jesus in the Gospel of John, the bread that Moses gave them in the wilderness didn’t come from his Father.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[

 

[Jack]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[

Hey stevie, Is there any Book in the Bible that you believe is God's written Word? How many times do I need to ask, stevie? Judgment Day will catch you! Jesus has seen your CONSTANT subtle ATTACKS on the Bible. Sounds just like what Satan does.

 

[Wick Stick]

Seems like a reference to John 6 about the bread that came down from heaven... but the chapter doesn't actually say the manna wasn't from heaven.

 

[Waiting on him]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[

Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
— John 6:31-32

 

[Wick Stick]

Or maybe it does.

 

[St. SteVen]

Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
— John 6:31-32

To me, that doesn't say that "the bread that Moses gave them in the wilderness didn’t come from his Father."
Both the manna and Christ were bread from heaven. (the Father) But Jesus is the TRUE bread from heaven.

Or maybe it does.

I think this is about the QUALITY of bread, not the place it was given from.
The manna was daily bread for physical sustenance. Christ is bread for eternal life, spiritual sustenance.

[

 

[Waiting on him]

To me, that doesn't say that "the bread that Moses gave them in the wilderness didn’t come from his Father."
Both the manna and Christ were bread from heaven. (the Father) But Jesus is the TRUE bread from heaven.

I think this is about the QUALITY of bread, not the place it was given from.
The manna was daily bread for physical sustenance. Christ is bread for eternal life, spiritual sustenance.

[

Um, he was telling them that they didn’t have the same Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

Um, he was telling them that they didn’t have the same Father.

Not in that passage as far as I can tell. Moot point?

[

 

[Jack]

I don't think stevie even knows what his religion is!

 

[St. SteVen]

Next time I need a user name I should go with St. Stevie.
I think that's funny.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament.
It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way.
"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it.
There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law.
(I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

 

[Brakelite]

The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament​

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament.
It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way.
"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it.
There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law.
(I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

Do you realize what you are doing? Do you understand what the law is? Imagine for a moment that you are the leader of a political party. You are campaigning against the incumbent party. To attract votes, you need to present yourself as having the ability to do governing different. In order to do that, you need to change the laws of the incumbent government.
God is the King of His kingdom. You are suggesting that we need to "deconstruct" God's laws. Question.
Why do feel the need to change God's government? Doesn't He know what He is doing? Didn't Lucifer try that, and where did that get him?