Is it possible to lose salvation?

[JesusFan]

Jesus had a lot to say about and this taught that the path to eternal life is narrow and that few find it. In Matthew 7:13-14, He said;

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."​

This shows that salvation is not guaranteed for everyone, and only those who stay faithful and follow His teachings will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


Jesus also warned that some would hear the word and believe for a while, but eventually fall away. In the Parable of the Sower, He explained;

"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles." (Matthew 13:20-21).​

This illustrates that some will start their walk with God but will not persevere when faced with trials or temptations.

In John 15:6, Jesus made it even clearer, saying;

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."​

Here, Jesus compares Himself to a vine and believers as branches. A branch must remain connected to the vine to stay alive and bear fruit. If a person disconnects from Christ through disobedience or unbelief, they wither spiritually and face eternal judgment.


The original apostles also confirmed this truth. Peter warned in 2 Peter 2:20-21;

"For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them."​

This shows that a person who was once saved and returns to sin is in a worse condition than before they knew the truth.​

James also affirmed this truth when he said;

"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."​

(James 5:19-20).​

This verse reveals that a believer can wander away from the truth and face spiritual death unless they repent and return to God.

The Bible does provide examples of those who lost their salvation. Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve apostles chosen by Jesus, yet he betrayed the Lord for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus Himself said about Judas;

"It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24).​

This shows that Judas was once in the faith but fell away and was lost.

Another example is Balaam, a prophet who once heard from God but later led Israel into sin for personal gain. Peter referred to him, saying,

"They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor." (2 Peter 2:15). King Saul is yet another example; he was chosen and anointed by God but later disobeyed and rebelled, and the Spirit of God departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14)​

Jesus' words make it clear that salvation is not a one-time event but requires endurance and faithfulness until the end. As He said in Matthew 24:13, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." Therefore, those who abide in Christ, obey His commandments, and remain faithful will receive eternal life. However, those who turn away from Him and return to sin risk losing their salvation and facing eternal separation from God: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."Rev 14:12

Blessings.

answer is no, for when saved , we then receiving the sealing by and of the Holy Spirit

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So we're free to break them all? <smile> Relax... I know you don't believe that. <smile> But in the Old Testament, there were different kinds of laws, which... I think you know. We are not bound to the ceremonial or civil laws of those days, but the moral still stands. Jesus said, as you know, I'm sure, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” So, from that we know at the very least that not all of the law of the Old Testament is obsolete or defunct, but still active, applicable, and binding today... and always will be. Now we have the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), but it takes from what was our guardian, or tutor, until Christ came (Galatians 3:24-25). But when Christ came, He was the real manifestation of the Law... the law was made manifest in Him. Which is what we read in Hebrews 7:18-19 ~ "For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God."

There was only one kind of law given to Israel, it is known as the Mosaic Law of which it is one unit comprised of 613 commands. We seperate them to define what part of Jewish life they concerned, but they were one law.

9 of the 10 commands written in stone were carried over to teh New (the Sabbath is the one not here) Paul said the law was a ministry of death, it in place until faith came and Jesus fulfilled it. The church it is said has 1008 commands of which 9 of the ten written in stone were carried over. Not for us to gain righteousness or improve our righteousness, but to show that we are made righteous by Jesus alone.

 

[PinSeeker]

There was only one kind of law given to Israel, it is known as the Mosaic Law...

Well, right, but the Mosaic law consisted of three kinds of laws ~ civil, ceremonial, and moral.

of which it is one unit comprised of 613 commands. We seperate them to define what part of Jewish life they concerned, but they were one law.

Right; see above.

9 of the 10 commands written in stone were carried over to the New (the Sabbath is the one not here)

No, the Sabbath is still here, but not in the form it was... or when it was, actually,the seventh day of the week. It is now the first day of the week, made that way by Jesus in His resurrrection, now referred to most often as the Lord's Day. It is on this day that we are to get our sabbath rest. And we are to remember it and keep it holy... set apart... and not neglecting it, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as we see the Day drawing near (Hebrews 10:25).

Paul said the law was a ministry of death, it in place until faith came and Jesus fulfilled it.

Right, but He came not to abolish it, which... He said, as you know, I'm sure. He did not make it no more, but actually clarified what it really is, which is summed up in the two great commandments, to love the Lord your God... and your neighbor.

The church it is said has 1008 commands of which 9 of the ten written in stone were carried over.

Hmmm... <smile> Said by whom...? <smile>

Not for us to gain righteousness or improve our righteousness, but to show that we are made righteous by Jesus alone.

Right. Agreed.

Grace and peace to you, Ronald.

 

[walter]

I don't agree that every scripture is explaining something valuable. Have you not read, where it says that every scripture is foolishness.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

So it depends on the individual, the scriptures are valuable to some and a load of rubbish to others.

You make absolutely no sense!


Put that in your pipe and smoke it

 

[walter]

Regardless of when the Lord said what He said in 2 Timothy 3:16 thru the Apostle Paul has no bearing on it's truthfulness.

Notice the ALL part:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Please let the "scriptures" speak for themselves. Not you or me!

 

[LoveYeshua]

There was only one kind of law given to Israel, it is known as the Mosaic Law of which it is one unit comprised of 613 commands. We seperate them to define what part of Jewish life they concerned, but they were one law.

9 of the 10 commands written in stone were carried over to teh New (the Sabbath is the one not here) Paul said the law was a ministry of death, it in place until faith came and Jesus fulfilled it. The church it is said has 1008 commands of which 9 of the ten written in stone were carried over. Not for us to gain righteousness or improve our righteousness, but to show that we are made righteous by Jesus alone.

Hi Ronald, there is an important distinction between the ten commandments that God wrote with HIS finger on 2 tables of stone, also called the Covenant by God. These were kept in the Ark of the Covenant and the rest of the law of Moses was kept outside and were not placed Inside the Ark.

I want you to think about what you wrote about ""9 of the 10 commands written in stone were carried over to teh New (the Sabbath is the one not here) Paul said the law was a ministry of death, it in place until faith came and Jesus fulfilled it." many things You say here do not follow scripture.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I feared it was so, Jesus clearly said if you love me keep my commandments. Please understand that jesus said he would ( AND DID) send the Holy Spirit to help with this task! the Holy Spirit was not available before Jesus death. How will you make it id you do not believe him when he said;

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32)
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(Mat 19:17) THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL

Jesus also said;

Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do do what i say"????

Please do not tell me it is my own theology this is what Jesus said himself.

YES it is possible to keep the commandments, it may seem a bit hard at the beginning but TRUST what Jesus said and what he did for us, He made all this possible, we all fail on occasion but we must persist this is what Jesus asks us to do to persevere until out last breath. The penalty of Sin was paid in full and we may stumble but if we repent and let the Spirit change us we all can if we want to.

As for desires, God does ask us to master it, if he says so, it can be done.

Gen 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires you, but you must master it.”

Yes it requires effort but the Holy Spirit makes all things possible, Do not doubt, strengthen your faith, trust completely God and it shall be possible, it is Why Jesus said he would send us the Holy Spirit.

We are constantly tested by life and the evil of this world but we must persevere, and take it one day at a time.

Blessings.

You are not rightly dividing (interpreting) Gods Word. Although the scripture does say, "if you love Me, keep My commandments". But the truth is, no one but Christ can perfectly keep the Law in this life, as all fall short, requiring ongoing confession and reliance on grace.

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".

This verse emphasizes that claiming sinlessness is self-deception, as all people fall short, and the truth of God's Word isn't within those who deny their sinfulness.

There is only one command, which we must obey in order to be saved, and it's found in; Acts 16:31 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
See how simple that command is for Gods elect to keep and how impossible it is for those whom God did not chose for salvation, before time began.

Your version of the gospel, places heavy and impossible burdens for anyone to carry and obey. The Lord Jesus said "My yoke is light", so why do you need to burden yourself with all this other stuff which the Lord Jesus removed from us and placed it all on His back.

Paul describes the reality of life, for all of Gods elect, in the following passage of scripture

Romans 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is what I tried to explain in an earlier post, and Paul explained it much better than I could. As you can see us elect Saints of God still struggle against temptation and we are regularly overcome and sin overpowers us.

You won't find a single verse in the bible, to support this theory that a born again believer can attain sinless perfection in this life.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Are these the only two men you recognize in history, Calvin and Arminius? I don't hold to any man made theory of what scripture means. History shows that any interpretation of scripture by a man turns into a heresy, as I pointed out for Calvinism. For you, apparently Arminianism is your heresy, which it is relative to Calvinism, "reformed theology".

Grace is the underlying of everything that exists. If it was not for God's grace in upholding the universe, you would evaporate instantly. We and the earth are created by God and He upholds all things.

None of these ideas exists in any scripture as it has meant from the beginning. They are novel, misinterpretations, imposed ideas upon scripture. Limited atonement is probably the most gross misinterpretation of scripture. We just celebrated Christmas. Christ came into this world Incarnated of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. He became man, as we are, took on Himself our human nature so that He is consubstantial with His creation. By His resurrection of that same human nature, He restored life, eternal existence not just to all human beings but the world itself. This is why we will all be raised in the last day, every single human being. There will be a new heaven and a new earth because of that resurrection. All the texts, possible 15-20 that I cited in our first discourse all refer to Christ's Incarnation and its effect upon creation.
To believe that scripture teaches "limited atonement" which is an impossibility because of the Incarnation, makes Christ and our salvation meaningless. We are still condemned to death through Adam and when we die, we simply cease to exist, there is no eternity of any kind.
Apparently you do not understand the full meaning of the fall of man, of Adam. There is a reason why we refer to Adam as the first Adam and Christ the second Adam. Christ came to reverse the fall of man and restore tlhe created order back to its original purpose. It is why I Cor 15:21-22 is an equation.

Yes He did, but you fail to understand what that actually means. Not only saved by Grace, but we exist by Grace. Everything that exists in this world is by His grace. He created this world by His Grace.

We are also saved through our faith. God has given each human being the capability, ability to believe, a measure of faith. It is what man does with God's universal call to repent, believe and be saved. God choose not a single human being, respective of our subjective salvation, our individual salvation. Calvin missed this whole concept of election. Just some scriptural theology for your enlightenment, there are 5 uses of election (three are groups and two are individuals). None for salvation as understood by Calvin. Here they are, Christ, Isreal, Christ Body, the Church, the elect, the Apostles, and Paul.

So Calvin says, but scripture differs. You are correct we don't originate it, it is part of our human existence, our nature. It's all about what we do with what is given to each. The parable of the talents, explains that to us. We are not being saved by faith, we are justified by faith, meaning to be put into a correct relationship with God which begins with belief, then baptism, entrance into His Kingdom, "this is what regeneration consists. We are being put back into the same relationship Adam had with God in the beginning. Adam was supposed to work with God bringing himself and creation back to God as a living sacrifice. He failed. Now we have been redeemed and by believing in that Savior, we entered into a relationship that requires every follower to work toward being more Christlike, To remain faithful and grow. We inherit our personal salvation at the end. If faithful, which is man's responsibility, not God's, we inherit eternal life WITH Him, if we reject Him, eternal existence APART from Him.

Again, so says Calvin, Scripture reverses the sequence. Man must first respond to God's universal call to repentance. He uses many ways to accomplish this. When man response to believe, one is baptised, which is the regeneration. We join His Kingdom and begin a journey of faith with Him as we all were created to have with Him. It is why we were created in the first place.

Fully agree

God did not create man for the purpose of destroying him.
As explained already, God does not chose who will be saved individually, You believe in a very unjust God. God is love, it is not even possible for God to not love. He will love all His creatures, even those that end up in hell. We will always be creatures, created by Him and will of necessity uphold all things even in eternity, even those in hell.

Most of scripture denies all of the above. Calvin's theology just could not recognize it because it did not align with the other principle aspects of his theology.
The above is an afront to who God is and why He created this world.

You are a devout follower of Jacob Arminius and you are living in denial. You can deny it all you want but your theology is pure Arminianism.

You don't even have the capacity to understand and defend your theology, which I have identified as blasphemous abominations, by shining the light of the truth on your doctrines of demons.

Your theology is hypocritical and self destructive. You claim you don't hold to any man made theory of what scripture means, but everything you claim is pure Arminianism. Jacob Arminius came up with the heretical "saved by works" version of the gospel. Joh Calvin exposed his evil version by confirming that "salvation is by grace", God said salvation is by grace but you hate Gods Word and reject what He said and you side with Jacob Arminius.

You can pretend to believe in God and Jacob Arminius at the same time, so please confirm who you believe in. If you push that demonic rubbish that salvation is by works then you don't believe in God.

You pushed the heresy of "saved by works" in every sentence of your reply, just go back and read that rubbish, then come back and tell me your not peddling heresy here.

You need to confess who you are, you can't fool me because I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He alerts me to liars.
Please reveal what you believe, are we saved by works or by grace???? and is faith a gift from God or does everyone create their own.
Are we born dead in sin or was God lying about that too, and the truth is we are are born 90% dead. Your theology is incoherent, inconsistent and it's doesn't line up with Gods Word and it's not supported by any scripture.

You rubbished the bible doctrines I shared with you, saying they are all man made, and accusing God of being evil for not choosing to save every single person. I won't have enough space to correct you here so I'll do it in a separate post

 

[Christian Soldier]

Are these the only two men you recognize in history, Calvin and Arminius? I don't hold to any man made theory of what scripture means. History shows that any interpretation of scripture by a man turns into a heresy, as I pointed out for Calvinism. For you, apparently Arminianism is your heresy, which it is relative to Calvinism, "reformed theology".

Grace is the underlying of everything that exists. If it was not for God's grace in upholding the universe, you would evaporate instantly. We and the earth are created by God and He upholds all things.

None of these ideas exists in any scripture as it has meant from the beginning. They are novel, misinterpretations, imposed ideas upon scripture. Limited atonement is probably the most gross misinterpretation of scripture. We just celebrated Christmas. Christ came into this world Incarnated of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. He became man, as we are, took on Himself our human nature so that He is consubstantial with His creation. By His resurrection of that same human nature, He restored life, eternal existence not just to all human beings but the world itself. This is why we will all be raised in the last day, every single human being. There will be a new heaven and a new earth because of that resurrection. All the texts, possible 15-20 that I cited in our first discourse all refer to Christ's Incarnation and its effect upon creation.
To believe that scripture teaches "limited atonement" which is an impossibility because of the Incarnation, makes Christ and our salvation meaningless. We are still condemned to death through Adam and when we die, we simply cease to exist, there is no eternity of any kind.
Apparently you do not understand the full meaning of the fall of man, of Adam. There is a reason why we refer to Adam as the first Adam and Christ the second Adam. Christ came to reverse the fall of man and restore tlhe created order back to its original purpose. It is why I Cor 15:21-22 is an equation.

Yes He did, but you fail to understand what that actually means. Not only saved by Grace, but we exist by Grace. Everything that exists in this world is by His grace. He created this world by His Grace.

We are also saved through our faith. God has given each human being the capability, ability to believe, a measure of faith. It is what man does with God's universal call to repent, believe and be saved. God choose not a single human being, respective of our subjective salvation, our individual salvation. Calvin missed this whole concept of election. Just some scriptural theology for your enlightenment, there are 5 uses of election (three are groups and two are individuals). None for salvation as understood by Calvin. Here they are, Christ, Isreal, Christ Body, the Church, the elect, the Apostles, and Paul.

So Calvin says, but scripture differs. You are correct we don't originate it, it is part of our human existence, our nature. It's all about what we do with what is given to each. The parable of the talents, explains that to us. We are not being saved by faith, we are justified by faith, meaning to be put into a correct relationship with God which begins with belief, then baptism, entrance into His Kingdom, "this is what regeneration consists. We are being put back into the same relationship Adam had with God in the beginning. Adam was supposed to work with God bringing himself and creation back to God as a living sacrifice. He failed. Now we have been redeemed and by believing in that Savior, we entered into a relationship that requires every follower to work toward being more Christlike, To remain faithful and grow. We inherit our personal salvation at the end. If faithful, which is man's responsibility, not God's, we inherit eternal life WITH Him, if we reject Him, eternal existence APART from Him.

Again, so says Calvin, Scripture reverses the sequence. Man must first respond to God's universal call to repentance. He uses many ways to accomplish this. When man response to believe, one is baptised, which is the regeneration. We join His Kingdom and begin a journey of faith with Him as we all were created to have with Him. It is why we were created in the first place.

Fully agree

God did not create man for the purpose of destroying him.
As explained already, God does not chose who will be saved individually, You believe in a very unjust God. God is love, it is not even possible for God to not love. He will love all His creatures, even those that end up in hell. We will always be creatures, created by Him and will of necessity uphold all things even in eternity, even those in hell.

Most of scripture denies all of the above. Calvin's theology just could not recognize it because it did not align with the other principle aspects of his theology.
The above is an afront to who God is and why He created this world.

Here's a brief summary showing that the 5 points I made earlier (TULIP) are actual Bible doctrines.

(Total Depravity: Romans 3:10-12
10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”)

As you can see, nobody seeks after God so God sovereignly chose some for salvation.

(Unconditional Election):
Ephesians 1:4-5 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Christ's specific work for the elect (Limited Atonement:) John 17: 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

(Irresistible Grace: John 6:37, 44), 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

And the finally the believer's secure, eternal salvation (Perseverance of the Saints):

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

There are many more supporting verses, but I'll see how you go about denying Gods Word in these verses.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You make absolutely no sense!


Put that in your pipe and smoke it

Sorry I didn't know that you were biblically illiterate. I'll refer you to the verses, which confirm what I said is based on Gods Word and not my private opinion.

Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God".

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned".

Do you think you can connect the dots here??? or do you need further assistance???

 

[walter]

Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God".

Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God".

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned".

1 Corinthians 2:14
New Living Translation
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

Matthew 7:7-8
New Living Translation
“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.

Does one scripture cancel out the other? Shouldn't we look for all the scriptures that are relevant to find our understanding?

 

[HealthyShape]

IMO, it it not possible to lose salvation. When you have it once, you have it forever, or else the term would have no meaning. We are either saved or we are not, we cannot be half-saved or almost saved or saved for a minute and not in another minute and then saved again and then not saved again... based upon whether we prayed or sinned today.

 

[walter]

IMO, it it not possible to lose salvation. When you have it once, you have it forever, or else the term would have no meaning. We are either saved or we are not, we cannot be half-saved or almost saved or saved for a minute and not in another minute and then saved again and then not saved again... based upon whether we prayed or sinned today.

Your words make sense, but what about these two scriptures?

Hebrew 5:9
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And in this way he was perfected and became the cause of eternal life to all those who obey him.

Ephesians 2:8-10
Contemporary English Version
You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve. This is God's gift to you, and not anything you have done on your own. 9 It isn't something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about. 10 God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live. This is why he sent Christ to make us what we are.

Does one scripture cancel out the other? If we can explain what we believe "with only the words in scripture" wouldn't that be good?

Shouldn't we let all the scriptures relevant help us determine our belief, without the assistance of our own ideas?

 

[HealthyShape]

Does one scripture cancel out the other?

Yes, sometimes. For example the New Testament cancelled a lot of the Old Testament.

Or do we need to consider the words in each scripture collectively to understand fully?

It is good to understand what we read, yes.

In summary, it is not either-or.

 

[Christian Soldier]

1 Corinthians 2:14
New Living Translation
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

Matthew 7:7-8
New Living Translation
“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.

Does one scripture cancel out the other? Shouldn't we look for all the scriptures that are relevant to find our understanding?

Your question reveals that you don't believe that the Bible is Gods inerrant, infallible Word. Those of us who do believe every Word of the Bible, would never ask such a question, because we know that the bible never ever contradicts itself and there are no errors in it.

So what we have here, is you expressing your confusion and delusion and inability to receive the the truth. I refer to the above verses again, as they seem to describe your theology better than I could.

How would you know which scriptures are relevant, if you failed to interpret the first one.

 

[LoveYeshua]

You are not rightly dividing (interpreting) Gods Word. Although the scripture does say, "if you love Me, keep My commandments". But the truth is, no one but Christ can perfectly keep the Law in this life, as all fall short, requiring ongoing confession and reliance on grace.

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".

This verse emphasizes that claiming sinlessness is self-deception, as all people fall short, and the truth of God's Word isn't within those who deny their sinfulness.

There is only one command, which we must obey in order to be saved, and it's found in; Acts 16:31 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
See how simple that command is for Gods elect to keep and how impossible it is for those whom God did not chose for salvation, before time began.

Your version of the gospel, places heavy and impossible burdens for anyone to carry and obey. The Lord Jesus said "My yoke is light", so why do you need to burden yourself with all this other stuff which the Lord Jesus removed from us and placed it all on His back.

Paul describes the reality of life, for all of Gods elect, in the following passage of scripture

Romans 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is what I tried to explain in an earlier post, and Paul explained it much better than I could. As you can see us elect Saints of God still struggle against temptation and we are regularly overcome and sin overpowers us.

You won't find a single verse in the bible, to support this theory that a born again believer can attain sinless perfection in this life.

You are mixing obedience with claiming sinless perfection, and the Bible never makes that equation.

No one here is saying a believer never sins. Jesus Himself taught us to pray, “forgive us our sins,” which already shows that failure can happen. But Jesus never said that obedience is optional, or that sin no longer matters once someone believes.

Jesus said plainly, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” He did not say, “Try if you can,” or “Believe only.” He tied love, faith, and obedience together. This is not about being perfect. It is about direction of the heart.

When you quote “My yoke is light,” you are missing what Jesus meant. His yoke is light because He teaches the right way to live, not because He removes responsibility. Right before that, Jesus condemns those who hear His words and do not do them. He compares them to a house built on sand. That house still heard the message. It still believed. But it fell because it did not obey.

Jesus never taught that salvation is reduced to one sentence spoken once in life. When asked directly, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus answered by pointing to the commandments and obedience from the heart. When the rich young ruler walked away, Jesus did not correct him by saying, “Just believe only.” He let him go, because obedience mattered.

The apostles taught the same thing. John says, “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.” John does not say this to claim sinless perfection. He says it to expose false faith that has no obedience at all.

1 John 1:8 does not teach that obedience is impossible. It teaches humility. John is correcting people who deny ever sinning. But only two chapters later, he says, “He who abides in Him does not continue in sin.” That means sin is not the ruling power anymore. Grace teaches us to resist, not surrender.

You also introduce election and predestination into a verse that never mentions it. When the jailer asked what to do, he was asking where to begin, not for a full teaching of discipleship. Belief is the door, not the whole house. Jesus Himself said that many will call Him Lord and still be rejected because they did not do the will of the Father.

The burden you describe is not from Jesus’ teaching. It comes from thinking obedience means earning salvation. Jesus never taught that. Obedience is the fruit of faith, not a replacement for grace.

Finally, no one here is teaching sinless perfection. That is a strawman. What is being taught is exactly what Jesus taught:
Faith that saves is a faith that listens, follows, and obeys.

Grace does not remove the call to obedience. Grace gives the power to walk in it.

That is not a heavy burden. That is the narrow path Jesus Himself described.

 

[mailmandan]

No, his heart was not always rotten.

If it was then Jesus would have committed sin by giving Judas the Holy Spirit and anointed him to do miracles.

Judas allowed the devil's lies into his heart and mind resulting in corruption

Jesus explains how this happens in Mark 4:13-20

Nowhere does scripture say that Jesus gave Judas the Holy Spirit. John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. Judas had already committed suicide before the Holy Spirit was given.

In Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition. (John 17:12)

 

[mailmandan]

Faith that saves is a faith that listens, follows, and obeys.

Grace does not remove the call to obedience. Grace gives the power to walk in it.

That is not a heavy burden. That is the narrow path Jesus Himself described.

So, how much obedience does it take? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were obedient "enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? Your answer to this question will demonstrate what you are trusting in/have placed your faith in for salvation.

 

[LoveYeshua]

So, how much obedience does it take? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were obedient "enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? Your answer to this question will demonstrate what you are trusting in/have placed your faith in for salvation.

That question sounds wise, but it is built on a wrong idea. Jesus never taught that salvation is a measure of “enough obedience,” and He never said we will stand before Him to argue our case with a speech. He said something very different.

Jesus said, “The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, NKJV). So it is not my answer that judges me, and it is not a checklist of deeds. It is His own words. That is why I do not accept the hypothetical question. Judgment does not work that way.

Jesus also said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He did not say, “Keep them perfectly or you are lost.” He spoke about love, direction, and faithfulness of heart. When someone truly trusts Him, they listen to Him, follow Him, and get back up when they fall. That is faith that lives.

God looks at the heart. “Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7, NKJV). Jesus taught the same truth when He spoke about those who honour God with their lips but whose hearts are far from Him.

So my trust is not in my performance. My trust is in Jesus Himself, and my life shows that trust by following Him, not perfectly, but sincerely. Not to earn salvation, but because I believe Him and do as he asked. That is the narrow path Jesus described, and His words will be the judge, not a debate at the gate.

 

[Rightglory]

You are a devout follower of Jacob Arminius and you are living in denial. You can deny it all you want but your theology is pure Arminianism.

You don't even have the capacity to understand and defend your theology, which I have identified as blasphemous abominations, by shining the light of the truth on your doctrines of demons. You really know how to build strawmen. It seems that is the only thing you can do well. You build one, then proceed to knock it down.

Your theology is hypocritical and self destructive. You claim you don't hold to any man made theory of what scripture means, but everything you claim is pure Arminianism. Jacob Arminius came up with the heretical "saved by works" version of the gospel. Joh Calvin exposed his evil version by confirming that "salvation is by grace", God said salvation is by grace but you hate Gods Word and reject what He said and you side with Jacob Arminius.

I don't believe in "salvation by works" never stated such. Youl simply assert I did. You don't understand what I stated, so you need to assert falsely so you can uphold your strawman. You don't even understand how "grace" is used and it effect upon God's creation.

You can pretend to believe in God and Jacob Arminius at the same time, so please confirm who you believe in. If you push that demonic rubbish that salvation is by works then you don't believe in God.

You pushed the heresy of "saved by works" in every sentence of your reply, just go back and read that rubbish, then come back and tell me your not peddling heresy here.

You need to confess who you are, you can't fool me because I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit and He alerts me to liars.
Please reveal what you believe, are we saved by works or by grace???? and is faith a gift from God or does everyone create their own.
Are we born dead in sin or was God lying about that too, and the truth is we are are born 90% dead. Your theology is incoherent, inconsistent and it's doesn't line up with Gods Word and it's not supported by any scripture.

You rubbished the bible doctrines I shared with you, saying they are all man made, and accusing God of being evil for not choosing to save every single person. I won't have enough space to correct you here so I'll do it in a separate post

Lots of blather here. Explain how someone can be only 90% dead. By the way, I don't think you understand what the phrase "born in sin" actually means either. One thing I do agree with your assertion that what I have explained is completely inconsistent with your view of scripture. But then you are part of that mass of men who hold to theories developed by men, in your case, Calvin. All of these men also make the claim they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hardly true and accurate. Where does it say in scripture that the Holy Spirit gives individuals more and different truths throughout history? There is ONLY ONE TRUTH, That is the Truth ONCE given, Jude 3.