A recent session I had with Chatgpt pertaining to some of the Discourse

[ewq1938]

I was identifying the people of Judea as the actual Jews, who suffered a very real attack and exile in 70ad to the nations.

The text doesn't say anything about being exiles but being captive, which means taken forcibly and as slaves etc. That's not what happened.

Again, it said the days of these events would be when all written would be fulfilled, and that did not happen which is further clear here:

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


In no way was AD70 a match to this. At best it was a type, which means a little similar in some ways but FAR from the real fulfillment. Types have ALWAYS fooled the majority. No one saw Jesus copming and all things were not fulfilled. That's why I mentioned full Preterism, because if all things were fulfilled in AD70, that would have to be full preterism. Partial Preterism cannot fit here due to the wording of everything having to happen in those days. No split and long period in-between matches the text.

AD70 is mostly and mainly pure deception. I won't fall for it. Let the readers beware.

 

[ewq1938]

Obviously though, it is meaning all things written in the prophets in the OT, since it would be absurd that it can be meaning anything written in the NT when not everything was even written in the NT yet when Jesus spoke those words and Luke later gave an account of it. Therefore, what prophecies in the OT do you think are pertaining to 70 AD? There will have to be numerous prophecies in the OT pertaining to 70 AD in order to make sense of that statement--For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

How many prophecies from the OT do you think you can produce that are pertaining to 70 AD? Can't wait to see what you don't come up with.

Or even just the events Christ said one generation would see. They would have to see all of them which includes the second coming and the rapture/gathering of saints by angels. Didn't happen which means none of the OD happened.

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. "
"This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "

Not AD70. Not a match.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The text doesn't say anything about being exiles but being captive, which means taken forcibly and as slaves etc. That's not what happened.

That is what happened according to the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. What are you basing your claim on?

Again, it said the days of these events would be when all written would be fulfilled,

When all written about the destruction of Jerusalem would be fulfilled, not when all written would be fulfilled. You need to learn to look at the context of scripture.

and that did not happen which is further clear here:

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


In no way was AD70 a match to this. At best it was a type, which means a little similar in some ways but FAR from the real fulfillment. Types have ALWAYS fooled the majority. No one saw Jesus copming and all things were not fulfilled. That's why I mentioned full Preterism, because if all things were fulfilled in AD70, that would have to be full preterism. Partial Preterism cannot fit here due to the wording of everything having to happen in those days. No split and long period in-between matches the text.

AD70 is mostly and mainly pure deception. I won't fall for it. Let the readers beware.

Preterists get a lot of the Olivet Discourse wrong, but it's just ridiculous to try to claim that Jesus said nothing at all about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple buildings, which happened in 70 AD. You don't have to be a preterist in order to believe, as I do, that Jesus talked briefly about the destruction of Jerusalem in the Olivet Discourse and talking mostly about things related to His future second coming at the end of the age the rest of the time.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Amen. The Kingdom of God indwells the People of God (Luke 17:21) who together comprise the Temple of God (Ephesians 2:21,22; 1 Peter 2:5).

There is no other temple.

LOL!!!!! Yet you insisted that the temple in 70AD was still holy despite after the kingdom of God has already came through the church.

No, the wrath of God is upon those who do not "see" the abominations standing in the House of the Lord, and who will not "flee" from it into the mountains. The Saints weren't in that unholy Temple of AD 70, hello? They were in the church. The tribulation of the church is a trial of faith that both the elect in the church and non-elect in it suffer under together. Some will endure it, and some won't. But they must both go through this simply by reason of being in this house, and by living in this end-time period.

Matthew 24:11-13

• "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
• And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
• But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Not endure the Romans conquering, but endure the tribulation caused by false prophets and false Christs' when iniquity or lawlessness abounds. Selah! Note, there is no talking about "Romans", "Titus", nor "foreign armies", but false prophets, deceptions, and the tribulation they bring upon the righteous. This is what the context is about, fools.

1Co 2:14

• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So you are postulating that God Himself was in confusion and thought that an unholy temple of the Jews in AD 70 would still be the Holy Temple and should thus be called such by Him? ...Come on Now! God is omniscient, and He most certainly is not going to falsely prophesy of a time when abomination stands in a Holy Place that isn't A Holy Place. Do you think God is a man that He would do that? You are not "listening" to Him. He said when "you" see abomination stand in the Holy Place (talking to His servants, not the unbelieving Jews). The Jewish Temple approximately 40 years after Christ is NOT the Holy Place that God would make such statements!

 

[covenantee]

LOL!!!!! Yet you insisted that the temple in 70AD was still holy despite after the kingdom of God has already came through the church.

No, the wrath of God is upon those who do not "see" the abominations standing in the House of the Lord, and who will not "flee" from it into the mountains. The Saints weren't in that unholy Temple of AD 70, hello? They were in the church. The tribulation of the church is a trial of faith that both the elect in the church and non-elect in it suffer under together. Some will endure it, and some won't. But they must both go through this simply by reason of being in this house, and by living in this end-time period.

Matthew 24:11-13

• "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
• And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
• But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Not endure the Romans conquering, but endure the tribulation caused by false prophets and false Christs' when iniquity or lawlessness abounds. Selah! Note, there is no talking about "Romans", "Titus", nor "foreign armies", but false prophets, deceptions, and the tribulation they bring upon the righteous. This is what the context is about, fools.

1Co 2:14

• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So you are postulating that God Himself was in confusion and thought that an unholy temple of the Jews in AD 70 would still be the Holy Temple and should thus be called such by Him? ...Come on Now! God is omniscient, and He most certainly is not going to falsely prophesy of a time when abomination stands in a Holy Place that isn't A Holy Place. Do you think God is a man that He would do that? You are not "listening" to Him. He said when "you" see abomination stand in the Holy Place (talking to His servants, not the unbelieving Jews). The Jewish Temple approximately 40 years after Christ is NOT the Holy Place that God would make such statements!

Who are you talking to?

 

[jeffweeder]

No wonder someone like Jeffweeder use that for his interpretation - literally. Sad!

Someone like me?
Who do you think I am?

No matter what translation one uses, the Spirit is our greatest asset.
I find the Amplified version very beneficial being an aid to a broader consideration of what the context of a subject might mean.


May the new year lead you into a humbler approach to the sacred text.

 

[Zao is life]

Or even just the events Christ said one generation would see. They would have to see all of them which includes the second coming and the rapture/gathering of saints by angels. Didn't happen which means none of the OD happened.

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. "
"This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "

Not AD70. Not a match.

I agree. That's why the same thing is said again using different words in the Revelation:

Luke 21
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.

38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

Matthew 24
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

--------------------------------​

Preterists and those who - whether partially or in full - adhere to their false doctrines regarding this, never ask themselves why Christ answered their question about the old covenant temple in this way. They only hear His disciple's question, but they do not hear Him.

Instead they hear only the question of the apostles who - when they asked the question

- still did not know about Jesus words which He was still to utter at the last supper about His blood and the new covenant,

nor about what was to transpire immediately after the last supper,

nor about the veil of the temple between the holy of holies and the holy place being torn in two when Jesus died,

nor about Jesus's resurrection from the dead,

nor about His ascension into heaven,

nor about the Holy Spirit coming down and filling the church on the day of Pentecost.

They did not know about the New Testament Temple when they asked the question.

THE APOSTLES HAD AN EXCUSE FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING WHEN THEY ASKED THE QUESTION - but later, the church and most Christians (except a remnant) -

were to betray only their own human understanding produced by the same type of fleshly minds that are capable of all these personal insults they level against the saints who have eyes to see and ears to hear that we see in this thread and in these forums.

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.. "See that ye are not deceived. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

.. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Only a remnant of all post-apostolic Christians would understand what Jesus meant by the holy place - because only a remnant are capable of hearing Jesus rather than their own fleshly minds that produces the false doctrines and personal insults leveled against that remnant (which is seen once again in this thread).

 

[rwb]

Amen. The Kingdom of God indwells the People of God (Luke 17:21) who together comprise the Temple of God (Ephesians 2:21,22; 1 Peter 2:5).

There is no other temple.

Yes, do you then also understand the Church on earth is the only representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven upon this earth? And when the Lord speaks of the literal, physical destruction of the Old Covenant city and temple it was that they/we might know that the Old Covenant representation of the Kingdom of God on this earth (physical city & temple) were destined to destruction, do you agree?

 

[covenantee]

Yes, do you then also understand the Church on earth is the only representation of the Kingdom of God in heaven upon this earth? And when the Lord speaks of the literal, physical destruction of the Old Covenant city and temple it was that they/we might know that the Old Covenant representation of the Kingdom of God on this earth (physical city & temple) were destined to destruction, do you agree?

If there is no temple other than the People of God, then what is the obvious Scriptural conclusion?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL!!!!! Yet you insisted that the temple in 70AD was still holy despite after the kingdom of God has already came through the church.

Where did he insist that? Show us the quote.

 

[covenantee]

Where did he insist that? Show us the quote.

His gnosis psychosis confused him.

 

[rwb]

If there is no temple other than the People of God, then what is the obvious Scriptural conclusion?

That these things must be spiritually, not physically discerned. Since the Church on earth is the representation spiritually of the Kingdom of God, i.e. the holy place, what is the AOD spoken of by Daniel standing in the holy place (Kingdom of God) that "whoso reads, let him understand"?

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

His gnosis psychosis confused him.

Again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That these things must be spiritually, not physically discerned. Since the Church on earth is the representation spiritually of the Kingdom of God, i.e. the holy place, what is the AOD spoken of by Daniel standing in the holy place (Kingdom of God) that "whoso reads, let him understand"?

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

At the time Jesus was speaking there, the physical temple was still the holy place. So, He referred to it as such. That does not mean it had to still be considered the holy place when the abomination of desolation took place. We can see from Luke 21:20-24 that the abomination of desolation is related to Jerusalem being surrounded by armies at the time when its imminent desolation was near. Jesus was referring to earthly Jerusalem there.

 

[covenantee]

That these things must be spiritually, not physically discerned. Since the Church on earth is the representation spiritually of the Kingdom of God, i.e. the holy place, what is the AOD spoken of by Daniel standing in the holy place (Kingdom of God) that "whoso reads, let him understand"?

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Of course the People of God spiritually discern, and are spiritually discerned.

But the AOD spoken of by Daniel (Daniel 9:26,27) and Jesus, is corroborated and identified in the Matthew 24:15 parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

The AOD was the Roman armies compassing the holy city of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15, Daniel 9:26,27, and Luke 21:20 constitute a three-way corroboration.

 

[rwb]

At the time Jesus was speaking there, the physical temple was still the holy place.

How could the physical temple still be the holy place after Christ came with the Kingdom of God declaring Himself and His body (faithful saints) to be the Temple?

John 2:21 (KJV) But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How could the physical temple still be the holy place after Christ came with the Kingdom of God declaring Himself and His body (faithful saints) to be the Temple?

John 2:21 (KJV) But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

It stopped being the holy place when the veil of the temple was torn in two when Jesus died on the cross. The veil being torn in two signified that the physical temple was no longer the place to meet with God and worship God and instead He would come to dwell in the hearts of His people. When the Holy Spirit started to come to dwell in people, the holy place/temple of God was the church.

 

[rwb]

Of course the People of God spiritually discern, and are spiritually discerned.

But the AOD spoken of by Daniel (Daniel 9:26,27) and Jesus, is corroborated and identified in the Matthew 24:15 parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

The AOD was the Roman armies compassing the holy city of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15, Daniel 9:26,27, and Luke 21:20 constitute a three-way corroboration.

How can the physical city be holy after Christ came in the Kingdom of God? You said, "The Kingdom of God indwells the People of God". So, if Christ and believers represent the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, how can the AOD be "Roman armies compassing the holy city of Jerusalem"?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Who are you talking to?

His gnosis psychosis confused him.

Well duh! It is YOU who are confused.

You’ve already admitted the truth: the Temple of God is people, not physical stones. Under the Old Covenant, the people themselves pointed to Christ, who is the true Temple. They were meant to be the builders, but they rejected the Cornerstone and in doing so brought judgment upon themselves. In trying to destroy Christ—the true Temple, the true City, and the true Sanctuary—they fulfilled God’s plan. In three days, Christ rebuilt the Temple, this time as His New Covenant people. All of this happened at the Cross. The physical temple and city in A.D. 70 were never required to prove the end of the Old Covenant as so-called "physical signs" to satisfy your false doctrine.

Scripture is unambiguous.

1Co 3:16
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Eph 2:21-22
(21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
(22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1Pe 2:5
(5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

If the Temple is spiritual and indwelling, then no physical building needed to be destroyed to mark the end of the Old Covenant. Scripture already tells us when the Old Covenant ended as you should already agreed with:

Heb 10:9
(9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Col 2:14
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Old Covenant ended at the Cross, not in A.D. 70.

Moreover, believers became Christians, received the Spirit, and were called God’s Temple while the physical temple was still standing (Acts 2; Acts 7; Acts 21). That alone destroys the claim that A.D. 70 was “required” to prove anything covenantally.

Jesus Himself tied true worship away from physical structures:

John 4:21-24
(21) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
(22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
(23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
(24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So you can’t have it both ways.

If the Kingdom is within (Luke 17:21) and the Temple is the People, then insisting on a necessary physical destruction in A.D. 70 is not biblical—it’s theological baggage only for the fools.

The Old Covenant died when Christ died, especially the first two verses of Olivet Discourse. But for the rest of the chapter, you are Christ’s Words through the wrong temple, wrong congregation, wrong army, wrong land, etc. because they are a type of the New Testament Congregation which "IS" a holy place on this side of the Cross ever since the Old Covenant ends. If anyone have spiritual ears, let him hear!

 

[covenantee]

How can the physical city be holy after Christ came in the Kingdom of God? You said, "The Kingdom of God indwells the People of God". So, if Christ and believers represent the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, how can the AOD be "Roman armies compassing the holy city of Jerusalem"?

Matthew 27:53
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It was referred to as the holy city even after Jesus' resurrection.