A recent session I had with Chatgpt pertaining to some of the Discourse

[ewq1938]

Did Jesus stand before the temple made of stone in Jerusalem and state "Destroy This Temple"?

Was Jesus talking about the temple of his body being destroyed?

At the temple he said it and other buildings would be dismantled. That is a dif conversation than the one where he called his body a temple.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

This was LONG before he was at the temple and spoke of it's destruction:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[covenantee]

No they didn't

As you've been shown several times the temple to be destroyed was the Lord's body, not one word in Matthew Chapter 24 saw 70AD fulfillment

I Strongly Disagree, the temple to be destroyed was his body just as the scripture teaches

Matthew Chapter 24 had absolutely no fulfillment in 70AD

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

In John 2:19-22, Jesus predicts what would occur at His Resurrection.
The literal temple of His Body would rise from the dead.
And It did.
Nothing whatever to do with 70 AD.

In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus predicts what would occur in 70 AD.
The literal stones of the temple buildings would be thrown down.
And they were.
Nothing whatever to do with His Resurrection.

Any attempt to associate the two is simply gnostic nonsense.

 

[rwb]

Wait.

I think we know "why bodies" came out of the grave and went into the Holy City, since it was a spiritual picture or figure of the resurrection. Not the actual resurrection itself, as that would mean all the Old Covenant saints would have been raised up. Obviously, it wasn't the actual resurrection! The saints that once possessed those bodies were already absent from them, and present with the Lord. So these bodies could only go to the physical city as a SIGN, and for one very specific Godly purpose. "To Appear Unto Many" that the testimony of witnesses might be found on the pages of Holy canon.

Selah!

Matthew 27:51-54

• "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
• And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
• And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
• Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God."

You seem dead set on completely "ignoring" and/or casting aside the very plain context of this whole episode, as well as the statement that the Centurion and others SAW all those things that were done with their eyes. That is a witness. Was the Centurion in heaven to fear when the bodies came out of the grave and went into the Holy City? No. We simply cannot ignore the very plain context of this taking place on earth. I mean we can, but it is not Biblically justifiable.

Where did I ever write that the bodies of the saints were “mortally resurrected” from the graves? Show me the quote. You have completely misunderstood my position.

There was no soul or spirit of the saints inhabiting those bodies. They were not restored to mortal life. The bodies functioned as shells—appearing in the holy city and being seen by many as a sign.

What became of those bodies afterward is immaterial and beside the point. Scripture does not focus on that, and neither do I. The point is this: they appeared to many in the holy city as a divine sign, pointing to something far greater.

No, they did not return to mortal life, as you assumed I was teaching. That claim is entirely your misrepresentation of my words.

Selah.

We aren't told how many graves were opened. But we are told that from the opened graves only the many saints which slept arose. IOW from the graves that were opened of both saints and sinners only the many bodies of saints arose.

Keep in mind people alive on the earth can only be witnesses of a physical/bodily resurrection from the dead. And as I've already said there will be no bodily resurrection from the graves until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer. Which is also why this is not a resurrection of all the dead from the graves but is the spiritual body of Christ from Old spiritually awakened (not resurrected) to ascend a spiritual body with Christ to heaven where they are living souls.

And I'm not "dead set on ignoring" anything! But I am dead set on having biblical TRUTH, not suppositions, and assumptions.

For bodies of dead saints to be seen by living humans, they would have to be resurrected in mortal body, but believers shall not resurrect to immortality physically until the last trumpet sounds. It isn't exactly certain what the Centurion witnessed when Christ was crucified. Because these bodies did not come out of the graves until AFTER the physical resurrection of Christ three days later.

There are inconsistencies in your assumptions that must be reconciled so there are not contradictions and confusion forced into the Word of God.

 

[rwb]

In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus predicts what would occur in 70 AD.
The literal stones of the temple buildings would be thrown down.
And they were.
Nothing whatever to do with His Resurrection.

Jesus makes no mention of 70 AD! When Jesus spoke of the destruction of the physical city and temple, He was spiritually speaking of the fall of these physical things SPIRITUALLY coming to pass when His body, the True Temple was crucified. Yes, the city and temple would be literally destroyed in 70 AD but Christ only tells them these things would not last that when the Holy Spirit came to be in them they would understand the Old physical representations of the Kingdom of God have been done away, and that the New Covenant through His blood, He would usher in the spiritual Kingdom of God through His Church that would continue to grow to its fullness, and that would be FOREVER.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In John 2:19-22, Jesus predicts what would occur at His Resurrection.
The literal temple of His Body would rise from the dead.
And It did.
Nothing whatever to do with 70 AD.

In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus predicts what would occur in 70 AD.
The literal stones of the temple buildings would be thrown down.
And they were.
Nothing whatever to do with His Resurrection.

Any attempt to associate the two is simply gnostic nonsense.

Absolutely right. John 2:19-22 is not part of the Olivet Discourse. It's very clear that Jesus was talking about the physical temple buildings being destroyed in Matthew 24:1-2 (Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:6-7) and not His body. It's absolutely ridiculous for anyone to claim that He was talking about His body there. He would not refer to His body as "these great buildings". That's utter nonsense.

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ declared the holy place of Old to be desolate before He went to the cross. When He said "Behold, your house if left unto desolate"!

Luke 13:31-35 (KJV) The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

He declared that to the unbelieving Jews like the scribes and Pharisees, not to all Jews.

Do you claim that the old covenant ended when Jesus said that and not when He died? His death and shed blood is what made the old covenant obsolete and ushered in the new covenant. The physical temple was left desolate unto the unbelievers like the scribes and Pharisees at that time when He said that, not to true believers. He was not saying that to all Jews. If you read all of Matthew 23, you can see that He was talking to and about unbelieving Jews like the scribes and Pharisees in particular when He said that. The physical temple was still viable and still the holy place for true believers up until the time when Jesus died and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No they didn't

As you've been shown several times the temple to be destroyed was the Lord's body, not one word in Matthew Chapter 24 saw 70AD fulfillment

I Strongly Disagree, the temple to be destroyed was his body just as the scripture teaches

Matthew Chapter 24 had absolutely no fulfillment in 70AD

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

LOL. This is utter nonsense. John 2:19-22 has a completely different context from Matthew 24:1-2. You are denying something obvious here because your extreme hyper-futurist bias.

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

You expect me to believe that Jesus was talking about His body here when He said "Seest thou these great buildings"? LOL! Nonsense! He would not refer to His body as "these great buildings" that would be destroyed with no stone left upon another. He was referring to the same buildings that the disciples were telling Him to look at. Yes, He referred to His body as "this temple" in John 2:19-22, but that was a completely different context and is not related to the Olivet Discourse like Matthew 24:1-2 (Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:6-7) is. He was referring to His death and resurrection there in John 2:19-22. He is not referring to His death and resurrection in Matthew 24. That's ludicrous. That would mean one of the disciples questions they asked Him after He said these great buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another would have been about when His death and resurrection would occur. But, He did not reference His death and resurrection at all in the Olivet Discourse.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus makes no mention of 70 AD! When Jesus spoke of the destruction of the physical city and temple, He was spiritually speaking of the fall of these physical things SPIRITUALLY coming to pass when His body, the True Temple was crucified. Yes, the city and temple would be literally destroyed in 70 AD but Christ only tells them these things would not last that when the Holy Spirit came to be in them they would understand the Old physical representations of the Kingdom of God have been done away, and that the New Covenant through His blood, He would usher in the spiritual Kingdom of God through His Church that would continue to grow to its fullness, and that would be FOREVER.

If what you are saying here about Jesus making no mention of 70 AD when He spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple was true (it's not), then that would mean the first question the disciples asked Jesus after He said that the temple buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another was related to the timing of His death and resurrection. Is that what you think they were asking Him? If so, where do you think He answered that question?

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So, just to be clear, what I'm asking here is do you think their question "when shall these things be?" was a question about when His death and resurrection would occur?

 

[TribulationSigns]

We aren't told how many graves were opened.

Irrelevant. God does not have to say how many exactly. Just many.

But we are told that from the opened graves only the many saints which slept arose. IOW from the graves that were opened of both saints and sinners only the many bodies of saints arose.

The word of God clearly stated:

Mat 27:52-54
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(54) Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I trust His Word telling what have occured. You just don't like to accept it.

Keep in mind people alive on the earth can only be witnesses of a physical/bodily resurrection from the dead. And as I've already said there will be no bodily resurrection from the graves until an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer. Which is also why this is not a resurrection of all the dead from the graves but is the spiritual body of Christ from Old spiritually awakened (not resurrected) to ascend a spiritual body with Christ to heaven where they are living souls.

Huh? Doesn't make sense. Per whole context, the Scripture said that the graves were opened and the BODIES of the Saints arose, came out of graves and went into holy city and appeared unto many people who saw them. This is not something that will take place at the LAST TRUMP. You are confused that it was not the "resurrection" of the saints here. It was the bodies of the Saints.

And I'm not "dead set on ignoring" anything! But I am dead set on having biblical TRUTH, not suppositions, and assumptions.

I shew you Matthew 27:52-54. What you tried to say does not refute what God's Word said what people "saw'.

For bodies of dead saints to be seen by living humans, they would have to be resurrected in mortal body, but believers shall not resurrect to immortality physically until the last trumpet sounds.

Sorry this is NOT what Matthew 27:52-54 says.

See... the resurrection of a few bodies of the saints were a "SIGN" that because Christ was First raised, believers are raised after. Why would there be a resurrection of only "a few" Old Covenant believers? If this was a Resurrection of old Testament saints, then all of them had to be resurrected, not just a few. Obviously, this is absolutely not the Resurrection of Old Covenant saints. Its merely a miraculous SIGN or token of the Resurrection. I keep reading of all these special rules being made up in order to support various doctrines. Like, Moses and Elijah had special resurrections before Christ, or Enoch had a different Resurrection, though no one else can have that, and now I'm hearing that only a few Old Testament saints were resurrected because it was just an example? Half True, because it was an example, but not with real dead saints, but their bodies as signs/examples/figures. The fact is, all Old Covenant saints were Resurrected in Christ just as we were, not just a few who appeared to many in heaven for some very strange reason. ALL! Every last one of them. In Christ.

1st Corinthians 15:22

• "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

All are made alive in Christ's First Resurrection. From Adam to the last man. None of the bodies that were in the grave and released by an earthquake, went literally into heaven. Physical earthly bodies of men do not go into heaven. That's an impossibility. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom. And that includes dead dusty flesh. A person must be changed, put off that body, leave it in the grave in order to enter into heaven. Thus No Bodies from the graves rose and entered the Kingdom of heaven and appeared to many. They went into the Holy City Jerusalem and appeared to many, who testified of this, and Matthew penned that testimony.

Enough said!

The problem is that you do not like what it says becasue it does not fit your doctrine of future resurrection.

Again... I think we know "why bodies" came out of the grave and went into the Holy City, since it was a spiritual picture or figure of the resurrection. Not the "actual resurrection", as that would mean all the Old Covenant saints would have been raised up. Obviously, it was NOT the actual resurrection of the "mortal bodies." The saints that once possessed those bodies were absent from them, and present with the Lord. So these bodies could only go to the physical city as a SIGN, and for one very specific Godly purpose. To Appear Unto Many that the testimony of witnesses might be found on the pages of Holy canon. Selah!

Matthew 27:51-54

• "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
• And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
• And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
• Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God."

You seem dead set on completely "ignoring" and/or casting aside the very plain context of this whole episode, as well as the statement that the Centurion saw all those things that were done. We simply cannot ignore the very plain context of this taking place on earth. I mean we can, but it is not Biblically justifiable.

There are inconsistencies in your assumptions that must be reconciled so there are not contradictions and confusion forced into the Word of God.

Inconsistencies ? Assumptions? Show me my quotes and prove me wrong with Scripture.

 

[rwb]

Huh? Doesn't make sense. Per whole context, the Scripture said that the graves were opened and the BODIES of the Saints arose, came out of graves and went into holy city and appeared unto many people who saw them. This is not something that will take place at the LAST TRUMP. You are confused that it was not the "resurrection" of the saints here. It was the bodies of the Saints.

There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. And you're adding "people" to the text, but it says only that they "appeared to many".

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Revelation 5:11 (KJV) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Exactly right! After Christ resurrected from the grave the gates of heaven were spiritually opened for Old Covenant faithful saints, who had died waiting for the promised Messiah to come and rescue them. None could ascend to heaven until Christ made atonement for sin and defeated death. That's why when Christ died His flesh went into the grave, and through His spirit He descended into the lower parts of the earth (place of dead saints) and taking them with Him, they as spiritual body ascended to heaven living souls.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Except the text does not say PEOPLE SAW! Simply says "and appeared unto many" without saying in what form. In the same manner John was able to know (see) the spiritual body without human form in heaven as living souls after they had been martyred for faith. The multitude of heavenly hosts witnessed these firstfruits as spiritual body of Christ awakened living souls in heaven ascending to heaven with Christ after He resurrected.

See... the resurrection of a few bodies of the saints were a "SIGN" that because Christ was First raised, believers are raised after.

• And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
• And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Yes, a sign that Christ through His death and resurrection opened the gates of heaven that all who had died in faith would now enter in.
We read only that graves were opened without saying only the graves of the saints were opened. From those graves that were opened in that particular region many spiritual bodies were awakened and arose with Christ as living souls. All of the Old Covenant faithful saints, wherever their dead corpses were buried after they had physically died, not only those whose graves were opened at one location, but all were quickened as spiritual body of Christ to living souls in heaven becoming the firstfruits of spiritual life from Christ.

From the Greek word translated 'many' is also translated, abundant, altogether, common. Which represented the remnant of Old symbolically numbered 144,000 of Old Covenant saints who died in faith.

The problem is that you do not like what it says becasue it does not fit your doctrine of future resurrection.

Excuse me? I'm not reading my preconceived assumption into the text, adding words to fit that assumption.

You seem dead set on completely "ignoring" and/or casting aside the very plain context of this whole episode, as well as the statement that the Centurion saw all those things that were done.

Again, I am not dead set on ignoring exactly what the Centurion or anyone else saw. The Centurion no doubt saw all the things associated with Christ's crucifixion, like the darkness over the land for three hours, the mocking and beating of Christ, but from where he was he could not have witnessed the veil of the temple being torn from top to bottom, and though he most likely felt the earth quake, unless he was at the grave site three days after the crucifixion, he could not have been a witness, nor could any other human be a witness of a spiritual body awakening and arising from the grave a living soul. Mortal beings can only be witnesses to that which can be physically seen, felt, heard, touched and there was not then, and shall not be a bodily resurrection from the graves until the last day.

Inconsistencies ? Assumptions? Show me my quotes and prove me wrong with Scripture.

You can go back and read for yourself how you add words to the text and assumptions! This was more than a "spiritual picture" of the bodily resurrection that shall be on the last day. This is, and I've given plenty of Scripture to prove, a spiritual awakening of Old Covenant faithful saints to eternal life spiritual life believers possess through the Spirit of Christ in us. It is the spiritual body that returns with Christ on the last day to return the breath of life (spirit) to our resurrected mortal body changed from mortal to immortal.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[rwb]

He declared that to the unbelieving Jews like the scribes and Pharisees, not to all Jews.

Do you claim that the old covenant ended when Jesus said that and not when He died? His death and shed blood is what made the old covenant obsolete and ushered in the new covenant. The physical temple was left desolate unto the unbelievers like the scribes and Pharisees at that time when He said that, not to true believers. He was not saying that to all Jews. If you read all of Matthew 23, you can see that He was talking to and about unbelieving Jews like the scribes and Pharisees in particular when He said that. The physical temple was still viable and still the holy place for true believers up until the time when Jesus died and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

I believe the Old Covenant was ended when Christ was born, and then all things written of Him fulfilled by His life, death and resurrection. It was made known when Simeon, through the Spirit declared the one he had long been waiting for, "the consolation of Israel" had come. And he blessed God, saying, "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel".

Luke 2:25-32 (KJV) And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Just because the Old temple and city would remain until 70 AD had no bearing on the fact that many, like Simeon before Christ came, also afterward believed in the Messiah to come as the Law and Prophets foretell. According to promise the remnant of Old were saved looking forward to Christ, not by the law, and though they faithfully kept the law of Moses, they knew the Old could not eternally save them, else why would they be looking for and waiting for the promised Messiah Savior to come?

 

[rwb]

If what you are saying here about Jesus making no mention of 70 AD when He spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple was true (it's not), then that would mean the first question the disciples asked Jesus after He said that the temple buildings would be destroyed with no stone left upon another was related to the timing of His death and resurrection.

Christ made no mention of when; He said only that the physical things of Old would not endure forever. He said this that His disciples would take their minds off the physical that was destined to destruction and fix their hearts and minds upon Him and the spiritual Kingdom of God He came to earth with. When Christ sent the Holy Spirit to be in them, they would remember how Christ spoke of the true Temple, His body that would be crucified as the Holy Temple along with the stones (Church), like the material things of Old the His body, the Church is also destined to pollution and death in the same manner the Old Covenant Church was when we of the Church become spiritually fallen.

 

[covenantee]

Christ made no mention of when; He said only that the physical things of Old would not endure forever. He said this that His disciples would take their minds off the physical that was destined to destruction and fix their hearts and minds upon Him and the spiritual Kingdom of God He came to earth with. When Christ sent the Holy Spirit to be in them, they would remember how Christ spoke of the true Temple, His body that would be crucified as the Holy Temple along with the stones (Church), like the material things of Old the His body, the Church is also destined to pollution and death in the same manner the Old Covenant Church was when we of the Church become spiritually fallen.

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Just to reconfirm, where in the first two verses is Jesus referring to His Body?

 

[rwb]

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Just to reconfirm, where in the first two verses is Jesus referring to His Body?

Just as Christ typically uses material, physical things familiar to us to demonstrate spiritual realities, here too He is using these physical things familiar to His disciples that through the Holy Spirit, He will send, they will remember what He said about His body being the Temple, and that the Church the stones representing the Kingdom of God/Church on earth where Jerusalem from above is spiritually found. Through spiritual understanding, not physical understanding, they would understand that He is the Temple, representing Jerusalem from above, and the Kingdom (stones/Church) shall also fall when the Church through abominations that make desolate cause the Light of Christ to be removed from Her. Unlike the material things of Old came to a full end, never to return again, the Church, as spiritually representing the Kingdom of God has His promise that She shall not utterly perish with the earth because we, the Church are not of this earth but spiritually eternally of heaven.

 

[covenantee]

Just as Christ typically uses material, physical things familiar to us to demonstrate spiritual realities, here too He is using these physical things familiar to His disciples that through the Holy Spirit, He will send, they will remember what He said about His body being the Temple, and that the Church the stones representing the Kingdom of God/Church on earth where Jerusalem from above is spiritually found. Through spiritual understanding, not physical understanding, they would understand that He is the Temple, representing Jerusalem from above, and the Kingdom (stones/Church) shall also fall when the Church through abominations that make desolate cause the Light of Christ to be removed from Her. Unlike the material things of Old came to a full end, never to return again, the Church, as spiritually representing the Kingdom of God has His promise that She shall not utterly perish with the earth because we, the Church are not of this earth but spiritually eternally of heaven.

Who in post-apostolic recognized Christian orthodoxy subscribes to this interpretation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ made no mention of when; He said only that the physical things of Old would not endure forever. He said this that His disciples would take their minds off the physical that was destined to destruction and fix their hearts and minds upon Him and the spiritual Kingdom of God He came to earth with. When Christ sent the Holy Spirit to be in them, they would remember how Christ spoke of the true Temple, His body that would be crucified as the Holy Temple along with the stones (Church), like the material things of Old the His body, the Church is also destined to pollution and death in the same manner the Old Covenant Church was when we of the Church become spiritually fallen.

Based on this response, I don't think you understood what I was asking.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

You are saying that Jesus was talking about His death (the destruction of His body) in Matthew 24:2, right? When the disciples asked Jesus "when shall these things be?" do you not believe they were asking that question in relation to Him saying that these things would be destroyed with no stone left upon another? If you do believe that, then what I was asking you is where do you think He answered that question by talking about the timing of His death and resurrection in the Olivet Discourse (in which verses)?

 

[rwb]

Who in post-apostolic recognized Christian orthodoxy subscribes to this interpretation?

I would rather look through the Bible and be enlightened through the Spirit, where this truth can be found. Are there post-apostolic writers that can prove I have not rightly understood who do not hold to Preterit doctrine?

Clearly here the Jews speak of the physical temple, which Christ used to spiritually demonstrate to His disciples the temple that would be raised up in three days was spiritually speaking of His body. After Christ was risen His disciples remembered how Christ spoke spiritually not of the literal temple, but of His crucifixion. After three days the disciples understood the Old represented by physical things had been spiritually replaced and the New Covenant through His body & blood symbolizing Christ as the True Temple came to pass exactly as Christ had spoken. (See Hebrews which proves the New Covenant came through the blood and resurrection of Christ)

John 2:19-22 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

The following verses affirm the belief that Christ became the chief corner stone, and we who are in Him, and He in us are living stones built together and groweth unto the Temple in the Lord, built upon the foundation that was built upon the apostles and prophets. We are warned that we, who are the Temple (Church/spiritual Kingdom of God) can become defiled and destroyed if we do not remain faithful to Christ because we are not our own but have been bought with a great price.

1 Peter 2:6-8 (KJV) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Ephesians 2:20-22 (KJV) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16-17 (KJV) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Clearly the Church, is spiritually the Kingdom of God that is not of this world and cannot be observed because the Kingdom of God is within believers.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Understanding these things point us to the spiritual Kingdom of God that came with Christ to the earth and was made manifest to His disciples by His crucifixion and resurrection and power of the Spirit in them after Christ was resurrected.

 

[rwb]

Based on this response, I don't think you understood what I was asking.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

You are saying that Jesus was talking about His death (the destruction of His body) in Matthew 24:2, right? When the disciples asked Jesus "when shall these things be?" do you not believe they were asking that question in relation to Him saying that these things would be destroyed with no stone left upon another? If you do believe that, then what I was asking you is where do you think He answered that question by talking about the timing of His death and resurrection in the Olivet Discourse (in which verses)?

This is prophetic message from Christ to His people of the things pertaining to His Church from the beginning of the Church when Christ came with the Kingdom of God, and continues to speak to His people throughout time until the seventh trumpet sounds. You can neither force these things into any single period of time, whether 70 AD or the last days of time just before the last day. All that Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives is written for the Church symbolized as seven Churches written in the Revelation.

 

[covenantee]

I would rather look through the Bible and be enlightened through the Spirit, where this truth can be found. Are there post-apostolic writers that can prove I have not rightly understood who do not hold to Preterit doctrine?

As you're aware, there are none who, having looked through the Bible and been enlightened through the Spirit, subscribe to your interpretation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is prophetic message from Christ to His people of the things pertaining to His Church from the beginning of the Church when Christ came with the Kingdom of God, and continues to speak to His people throughout time until the seventh trumpet sounds. You can neither force these things into any single period of time, whether 70 AD or the last days of time just before the last day. All that Christ spoke from the Mt of Olives is written for the Church symbolized as seven Churches written in the Revelation.

You're not answering my question for some reason. When the disciples asked the question "when shall these things be?" what do you think they were asking and in which verses do you think Jesus answered that question? If you think He was referring to His death and resurrection when speaking of the destruction of the temple buildings, then where do you think He spoke of His death and resurrection in the Olivet Discourse?