"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

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JustMe

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If you accept the philosophical idea of incarnation for the man Yeshua, and then proceed with this unstable basis believing that Yeshua was actually Emmanuel and not his Father—thus creating two persons in your concept of the godhead—you cannot truly accept the truth that the Father (Emmanuel), the only Godhead, was in Yeshua (fully embodying the Godhead of the Father, who is the only God), his Messiah. Consequently, you cannot believe the many scriptures that affirm this truth. Due to this significant error, it becomes impossible for anyone to become a true Christian and receive the Spirit of God if the Father was not or is not in the Son since his anointing. Yeshua received all of the Godhead, from his God the Father, within himself.

Take at least a glancing moment to reflect on this very disturbing belief system you apparently possess.
 

Aunty Jane

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Furthermore brethren in Christ, those CULTS which only claim... to be Christians, got their disbelief about Jesus of Nazareth as part of The Three Person Godhead from the "synagogue of Satan".

In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, Lord Jesus mentioned those FALSE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan", which only LIE and SAY THEY ARE JEWS, BUT ARE NOT. That means those represent the main workers of Satan here on earth, Satan's own elect. It also means they ARE NOT TRUE BLOODLINE BORN Jews of the seed of Israel. And that then points to them as those CREPT IN UNAWARES throughout Judah's Old Testament history, of PAGAN FOREIGNERS WHO WERE IDOL WORSHIPERS.

Thus the "synagogue of Satan" represents a group of FAKE JEWS crept in among even 'unbelieving' Jews of the seed of Israel, and mislead true bloodline Jews. They were among the Pharisees and even made up the scribes of Israel which were of the Kenite peoples, a people of the land of Canaan (see Genesis 15 and 1 Chronicles 2:55). And they don't like being exposed. Yet that is Biblical.

That is why... those FALSE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan" literally HATE the idea of Jesus Christ being GOD, i.e., part of The Three Person Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.
I don’t think you realize that you just described the foundations of Christendom....
Jesus foretold fake Christians.....the “fake Jews” were pictorial of what was to occur again, since satan has no new tricks...the old ones still work for him, just fine. (Matt 15:7-9)

What you see today is a counterfeit, modified so many times throughout its long and sordid history so as not to even resemble the original in any way...you take it for granted that the foretold apostasy did not occur till these later centuries, but the apostles said that it was “already at work” in their day. The truth has been lost in 1500 years of lies and deception....but it was to return to those who, in these “last days”, refused to swallow what the hypocritical church system was dishing up. Just as the Christians had to separate for the apostate Jewish system, so people today have to separate from what is only masquerading as the “Christian Faith”.
Don’t listen to what they say, just observe what they do....they betray the teachings of their proclaimed “Lord” in so many different ways....oblivious to the consequences. Mixing a range of pagan festivals and teachings, and passing them off as “Christian”. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

God led his faithful ones out of grip of “Babylon the great”. (Rev 18:4-5)
 
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Davy

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I don’t think you realize that you just described the foundations of Christendom....

Brethren in Christ -- there above is yet ANOTHER FALSE CLAIM by the FAKE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan".

"But in what sense do you mean that Davy?", one might ask. In the sense that because Lord Jesus Himself was born among the children of Israel, and... His chosen Apostles were born of the children of Israel, that has to mean what JEWS say puts 'them' in authority over ALL OTHER BELIEVERS ON CHRIST! Well, that false idea is a bunch of BALDERDASH! And it is an idea from the FAKE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan" who only SAY they are Jews, but LIE, and are NOT, just as Jesus said in Revelation 2 & 3.

If anyone doubts what I'm saying, then a little study by Apostle Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians ought to take care of that. Pharisee converts among the JEWS were the main ones that gave the early Church a hard time, trying to put those of the Church back in bondage to the law. One of their first attempts that was written of is in Acts 15 when they tried to force Gentiles to be flesh circumcised in order to be saved by Christ. In Galatians, Apostle Paul tells how they sneaked around the bathroom spying out the genitals of Gentiles to see if they were circumcised or not, and Paul in anger said he just wished their's was 'cut off', meaning their sexual organ! (You won't hear that one from Paul taught in Church.)


And what do those FAKE JEWS of the "synagogue of Satan" do today still to try and move that label Jesus put on them away from themselves?? Those FAKE Jews claim that "synagogue of Satan" is about the TRUE BLOODLINE JEWS that were deceived in agreeing to have Jesus crucified! But in reality, the FAKE JEWS, (crept in unawares of pagan foreigners not born of Israel), had their little soldiers move around the crowd of people to move them to be against Jesus! (Matt.27:20; Mark 15:11) That's a thing that Communists still do today at political rallies and such!


The FAKE JEWS HISTORY:

Brethren in Christ: If you don't know about Satan's little entourage of crept in unawares among Judah (Jews), then it means you have not done your Old Testament homework.

When God led the children of Israel into the holy land at the start, He commanded the Israelites to literally wipe out peoples of certain Canaanite nations (Deuteronomy 20:10-18). The Israelites failed in that. So God said He would leave the residue of those pagan foreigners to dwell among the children of Israel to see if Israel would follow Him, or not. That began the 'crept in unawares' prophecy of Jude 4...

Jude 4
4 For
there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

Those are about the "tares" in Lord Jesus' parable of the tares of the field, per Matthew 13. Lord Jesus' Message about what to do with those is to leave them alone, because by trying to remove the "tares" one might mistake a TRUE BORN CHILD of JUDAH that is simply deceived, and not actually get a real 'tare'. Wait and let Jesus and His angels sort them out at His future coming, and is what He showed us in that parable. But the FACT that Jesus TOLD US, HIS CHURCH, about those "tares" that creep in, means WE, HIS CHURCH, are... to be aware of those "tares".

In Judges 2 & 3, God further rebukes the children of Israel for not literally wiping out those nations of Canaan that made up the lands of Israel's inheritance. The reason God gave for wiping those nations out, even everything among them that breathed, was so Israel would not be subject to their pagan idol worship ways. And if one does a little study into the history of paganism, one will find how they were guilty of all sorts of abominations against nature and the flesh, and even bowed down to idols and the use of black magic and the evil spirit world.

Another factor among the lands of Canaan when the Israelites first entered the land was the hybrid race of giants. At one investigation by Israelites, when they came back to report, they said they were as grasshoppers among those giants. That hybrid race of giants had to be wiped out, as God did not create them. Satan and his host was behind their making, as he was using them to try and taint the bloodline that Lord Jesus would be born through. This is why in Genesis 6 we are told that Noah was 'perfect' in his generations, that word 'perfect' being a word pointing to the sacrificial purity of animal sacrifice to God, which was per the old covenant back then.

After a few generations, with those crept in unawares having become religious Jews, they became like "tares" (FALSE JEWS) hidden among the good wheat (true Jews, or true Judah). So it didn't take long for them to mix in among the true bloodline of Judah, and claim also that they were born of Abraham (like they tried to do when speaking with Jesus in John 8:30-33, even though Lord Jesus agreed with them in a tongue-in-cheek way about that, because He later said their father was the devil per John 8:39-44.)

Another group of those Canaanite foreigners that crept in among Israel were those who became priests among Israel. This was discovered when the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" went captive to Babylon and then returned. They were called Nethinims when made bondservants to Israel, and were leftovers of the nations of Canaan which Israel had failed to destroy per God's commandment (see Judges 2 & 3; Joshua 9; 1 Kings 9:19-22). Eventually, those Nethinims would set themselves up at the City of David (David had appointed many of them to temple service - Ezra 8:20).

So by the time of Lord Jesus' 1st coming, there they were, a group of Satan's host that had crept in among the Pharisees and scribes of Israel, for the scribes were actually foreigners of the Kenite peoples of the land of Canaan also. It was those specific Pharisees and scribes that sought to have Jesus crucified, FAKE JEWS that only SAY they are JEWS, but ARE NOT, but are the "synagogue of Satan."
 

GodsGrace

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No. they did not.
(Jesus' statement @ John 8:58, the Pharisees understood to be the answer to their question "You are not yet 50 years old, and yet you have seen Abraham?" Jesus was answering 'Yes'. That's why they picked up stones to stone Him ... Jesus was saying He was over 1800 years old. To them, a ridiculous claim!) They did not think He was claiming to be God.

How do we know that? Because at His Sanhedrin trial, no one accused Him of saying he was God, not even the false witnesses!
All four of the Gospels record the event, but no such accusation was made.

So to claim the Pharisees accused Jesus of saying he was God, is not considering all of the pertinent Biblical context.

Have a good day.
Whatever TazzJazz

You think I'm going to debate whether or not Jesus is God with a member of a cult religion?

No way.

You can twist scripture however your group brainwashed you to believe.

JESUS IS GOD.

And the I AM statement is not the only evidence.

And if the Pharisees thought Jesus meant that He was 1800 years old...
then, yes, they must have thought He was crazy and deserved the cross.

And
He WOLD HAVE BEEN a crazy man.

Have a good day and think for yourself.
 

GodsGrace

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I'll tell you what John 8:24 and its context and meaning, again...as to others at least

----------------------------------------------

John 8:24 and 28 – Epistrophe I am - that you would die in your sins​

Two of the so-called seven absolute “I am” statements of Christ.

(Joh 8:24) I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."
(Joh 8:25) They asked, "Then who are you?" Jesus answered, "I am what I have told you from the beginning.
(Joh 8:26) I have much more I could say to judge you. But I tell people only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he speaks the truth."
(Joh 8:27) They did not understand who he was talking about. He was telling them about the Father.
(Joh 8:28) So he said to them, "You will lift up the Son of Man. Then you will know that I AM. You will know that whatever I do is not by my own authority. You will know that I say only what the Father has taught me.
(Joh 8:29) The one who sent me is with me. I always do what pleases him. So he has not left me alone."
(Joh 8:30) While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. (ERV)

In verse 24 Yeshua insists the people know who he is, else without this knowledge, they will not have the opportunity to believe in him, and consequently their sins will not be forgiven upon their death.

So they ask him who are you, in verse 25. And Yeshua replies, I already told you from/at the beginning, of our discussions or when he first met them.

And in the beginning of his discussions is verse 12, he said he was the light of the world (and only while he was on the earth).

Then this is linked to Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6; to the Father making Yeshua his salvation, his Messiah as the light of the world.

John 8:24 =>John 8:25 => John 8:12=> Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6

I am what/who I spoke about from the beginning, as the light of the world. The Father planned and spoke of him as the Messiah in Isaiah.

Yeshua, the Messiah of God, where his father’s spirit and word possessed his own spirit, emphasizing that Yeshua spoke from and for God, as his agent.

Furthermore, ‘the light of the world’ is not limited to Yeshua’s physical presence on Earth. While Jesus states, "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world" (John 9:5), his presence continues through the Spirit of his Father, who dwells in believers today.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to the crowd, saying: I am the light of the world. He that follows me shall not walk in the darkness but shall have the light of life.
(Isa 42:6) I, Yahweh, have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand and will keep you, and make you a covenant for the people, as a light for the nations;
(Isa 49:6) yes, He says, It is too light a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the nations, that you may be My salvation to the end of the earth.

This light is identified as "the light of truth," "the light of Christ," and the "Spirit of Christ," which quickens understanding and enables individuals to discern good from evil.

The light is spiritual, illuminating the human soul and guiding individuals toward righteousness and truth by his Father’s presence in his Son.

Then Yeshua, in verses 26 - 29, speaks about his God, his Father. Yeshua is again hinting about who he is, as his position with and the work of his Father, who is God.

The light that came into the world is described as the source of life and truth, and its presence exposes evil deeds, as those who do wicked things hate the light and avoid it.

In verse 28 Yeshua broadcasts to the people he is the Son of Man, a human being, a human person.

In verses 28 and 29, by strong inference, Yeshua is also saying he is the anointed one, the Messiah of God. Yeshua, the man had to be anointed or become the Messiah of God, filled with the power of his Father in order to succeed to the Cross. Yeshua had no power or authority in himself or independently, he depended solely on his Father, who is the one God. Yeshua performed his work as the special human being separated by God for this special mission. He was born to become the agent of God, to speak the word of God to execute the human sacrifice portion of God's plan for salvific restoration.

And then in verse 30, many knew Yeshua was a man, a human person born of God and also the Messiah of God. And many consequently then believed on him and did not die in their sins, as his Father God told his Son. They never thought he was YHWH for one moment in the process of believing in him, as only the Son of God being the Messiah!
The I AM statement of Jesus had NOTHING to do with His other I AM statements.

EXCEPT
that Jesus is all of the I AMs

EVEN
the I AM signifying that Jesus is the same I AM that was in the burning bush in Exodus.
 

GodsGrace

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The same reason HE said I am the first and the last . And the Word was God . its real simple
if we just read the bible . Just not certain bibles that changed things .
Right.
And so much other evidence.

If Jesus thought He was God....and made statements referring to this....

THEN

He either WAS GOD

or

He was a crazy man.

Something the JWs don-t seem to be able to understand.
 

saved by grace 101

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If you accept the philosophical idea of incarnation for the man Yeshua, and then proceed with this unstable basis believing that Yeshua was actually Emmanuel and not his Father—thus creating two persons in your concept of the godhead—you cannot truly accept the truth that the Father (Emmanuel), the only Godhead, was in Yeshua (fully embodying the Godhead of the Father, who is the only God), his Messiah. Consequently, you cannot believe the many scriptures that affirm this truth. Due to this significant error, it becomes impossible for anyone to become a true Christian and receive the Spirit of God if the Father was not or is not in the Son since his anointing. Yeshua received all of the Godhead, from his God the Father, within himself.

Take at least a glancing moment to reflect on this very disturbing belief system you apparently possess.
Im a bit slow, are you saying the Spirit of God fully resides in Christ, but the Father is still the only true God and greater than Christ? If you are, I would fully agree with that.
The only disagreement on this subject then is the title of Christ, not his essence. Strange how people will like to condemn you for believing the title Christ laid down concerning himself to inherit eternal life
 
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GodsGrace

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Im a bit slow, are you saying the Spirit of God fully resides in Christ, but the Father is still the only true God and greater than Christ? If you are, I would fully agree with that.
The only disagreement on this subject then is the title of Christ, not his essence. Strange how people will like to condemn you for believing the title Christ laid down concerning himself to inherit eternal life
How is God Father greater than God Son?
 

saved by grace 101

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How is God Father greater than God Son?
Well according to Jesus, the father is the only true God and greater than he(John17:3&John14:28)

Do you think anyone will be cast into hell for believing Jesus words when he walked this earth?
 

GodsGrace

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Well according to Jesus, the father is the only true God and greater than he(John17:3&John14:28)

Do you think anyone will be cast into hell for believing Jesus words when he walked this earth?
I don't believe anyone is going to hell because they cannot understand the Trinity.
I DO believe that a person MUST believe the Trinity in order to be defined as Christian.

So are you Christian?
Or do you believe Jesus was JUST a man?
 

saved by grace 101

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I don't believe anyone is going to hell because they cannot understand the Trinity.
I DO believe that a person MUST believe the Trinity in order to be defined as Christian.

So are you Christian?
Or do you believe Jesus was JUST a man?
I believe Jesus is who he said he was, the only begotten son of God. You didn't answer my question
Jesus said the Father was the only true God and greater than he, in your view, would a person be cast into hell for believing that?
 

GodsGrace

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I believe Jesus is who he said he was, the only begotten son of God. You didn't answer my question
Jesus said the Father was the only true God and greater than he, in your view, would a person be cast into hell for believing that?
I'll repeat:
NO ONE is going to hell because they didn't understand doctrine or a teaching of THE CHURCH...
the church that has been around from the beginning...not one that was invented about 200 years ago.

God IS the one true God.
There is ONLY ONE GOD.

No Christian disputes this.

Which is why I brought up the Trinity.
It's the TRINITY that you do not accept.

This thread is about the I AM, so I WILL address that.

Jesus said BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS....I AM. John 8:58

Lot's check out the context of WHY Jesus said this.


Before John 8:58 Jesus is speaking to the Jews.
He made important statements to them,,,including:
YOUR ARE FROM BELOW - I AM FROM ABOVE verse 23
YOU ARE OF THIS WORLD - I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD verse 23

YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS UNLESS YOU BELIEVE I AM HE. verse 24
Jesus said I AM HE...
Who would that be?


Jesus refers to Himself as THE SON OF MAN.....verse 28
This title is referncing
Daniel 7:13-14
13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.


Many can be referred to as "son of God" Jesus Himsel is THE Son of God.
However, only to Jesus is attributed the title of SON OF MAN...

Jesus always does the things that are pleasing to God.
Because HE AND GOD FATHER have the same nature and will.

In the Garden Jesus prayed NOT MY WILL BUT YOURS BE DONE.
And did Jesus go to the cross or not?
Yes sir. Jesus went to the cross because His HUMAN nature did not want to....
but His DIVINE nature did exactly what the Father's nature was in agreement with.

Jesus was human here on earth.
But He was divine from eternity.

Jesus is NOT a created being and John makes the clear thoughout his gospel.


Verse 40
John 8:40
40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.


WHAT did Abraham not seek to do?


Verse 42
Jesus states He PROCEEDED FORTH from the Father.
Proceeding forth means Jesus was ALWAYS PART OF THE FATHER.

John 1:1
THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD.

John 1:14
THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.



Verse 51
IF ANYONE KEEPS MY WORD HE WILL NOT SEE DEATH.
So if I keep the word of A MERE MAN,,,,I will not see death for one reason or another?
Or is it only GOD that can keep us from seeing death?

Verse 52
The Jews understood what Jesus was saying, even though some here might not.
They replied:
NOW WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A DEMON...
Again they were charging Him with blasphemy.


Verse 56
YOUR FATHER ABRAHAM REJOICED TO SEE MY DAY.

And HERE is where Jesus replies
BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS....I AM.

And what does this mean?
Let's let the Jews themselves reply...

They picked up stones to throw at Him.

Because THEY understood what Jesus was claiming.

He wasn't claiming to be 1,800 years old as was stated by another member on this thread....
Jesus was claiming to be BEFORE Abraham.

BEFORE everything because everything was created by Him and nothing exists that was not created by Him.

Colossians 1:15-17
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.



I AM

Jesus always was and always will be.
Jesus is the ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.

I AM
I WAS
I WILL BE
 

keithr

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You are the one who spoke out as in Authority, when you actually do not know that YHWH is not GOD's Name written in the Hebrew manuscripts. I gave you a strong clue where to find His actual Name in the Book of Esther in Acrostic form, which includes His Name 'I AM'. So it's up to you to now do your own homework on that, instead of trying to embarrass me into revealing it to you here. I won't tell you, no matter how much you try to mock me.
Why are you embarrassed to try to help others understand the Scriptures? Luke 9:26 (WEB):

(26) For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed, when he comes in his glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels.​

2 Corinthians 4:5-6 WEB
(5) For we don’t preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake;​
(6) seeing it is God who said, “Light will shine out of darkness,” who has shone in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

Matthew 5:16 WEB
(16) Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.​

PS. Isaiah 42:8 tells us what God's name is:

LSV (8) I [am] YHWH, this [is] My Name, And I do not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

UASV (8) I am Jehovah; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to graven images.
 

amigo de christo

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Right.
And so much other evidence.

If Jesus thought He was God....and made statements referring to this....

THEN

He either WAS GOD

or

He was a crazy man.

Something the JWs don-t seem to be able to understand.
Any man that even dares to go around the Absolute dire need to have had to Beleived on JESUS
might be able to quoate even certain truths , BUT KNOWS NOT THE TRUTH at all .
We better all watch out . JESUS never said lest ye become as , lest ye sit under , wise scholars
ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of GOD . HE said LEST YE BECOME as children .
And we BELEIVE what is written , we do not try and twist and go around it , WE simply beleive it .
THIS many do not do . THEY always t ry and twist and fit scrips to GO around THE TRUTH
rather than simply beleiving what is written and letting THE TRUTH form and by the SPIRIT change and mold their minds .
MANY try and attain knowledge , wisdom , understanding
But do so through carnal wisdom , intellect , wise sounding men . Because many
have no heart FOR GOD at all . Sheep BELEIVE , goats twist . ALWAYS remember that .
IF what is written has to be twisted , THEN ITS A LIE that follows .
 
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GodsGrace

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You are the one who spoke out as in Authority, when you actually do not know that YHWH is not GOD's Name written in the Hebrew manuscripts. I gave you a strong clue where to find His actual Name in the Book of Esther in Acrostic form, which includes His Name 'I AM'. So it's up to you to now do your own homework on that, instead of trying to embarrass me into revealing it to you here. I won't tell you, no matter how much you try to mock me.

Your explanations about Jesus, Yeshua, STILL... do not give credit to the actual written Bible Scripture about Jesus' place in the triune GODHEAD. Jesus is... GOD The Son, and apparently something your men's 'Oneness' false tradition refuses to recognize.

This following Bible Scripture should... settle the matter, but NO... the FALSE JEWS you follow has convinced you that Jesus is NOT GOD, not part of The GODHEAD. Yet the following Scripture reveals that Jesus is... GOD come in the flesh...

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,
and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
KJV


That is no doubt why when you mentioned the prophecy in Isaiah about Jesus Christ, you FAILED to address that actual prophecy, not only in Isaiah 7:14 with the meaning of His Name "Immanuel", but also the later Isaiah 9:6-8 prophecy which is about Lord Jesus Christ...

Isa 9:6-8
6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

8
The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
KJV


That "child" is the same child spoken of back in Isaiah 7, the prophecy of the virgin birth. It is about Lord Jesus Christ. And those TITLES belong to Lord Jesus Christ! Notice it includes, "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" in that child's Titles!

Then in Isaiah 9:7 above, it points also to The One Who is to inherit His flesh father's throne, the throne of David! That is ONLY about Lord Jesus Christ! And that is yet another proof that the above Isaiah 9:6-7 Scripture is about JESUS THE CHRIST, or Yeshua-Messiah as you would say.

Then what was that LIGHT idea you kept mentioning in your post, being about Yeshua? There it is with that Isaiah 9:8 verse, which also is about Lord Jesus Christ. It's about The Gospel of Jesus Christ having been given through Abraham, then to his son Isaac, then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where The Gospel has remained in their care ever since their being scattered to the West and forming the Western Christian Nations, fulfilling the "multitude of nations" prophecy given about Ephraim in Genesis 48.

So as long you keep listening to those you are listening to, you will stay dumbed down on much of this.
Davy,
Isn't it sad that we have to debate the divinity of Jesus with other "Christians"?

What exactly, I wonder, do they believe makes them BE A CHRISTIAN?
Maybe the fact that Jesus was a good person?

Who knows.

THIS is what I know.

Jesus is spoken of as God throughout the NT and this begins in the OT.
Jesus proclaims HIMSELF as being God,,,for which He was threatened with death and with blaspheming.

Christians understand that Jesus is God...as has been taught from the beginning of our religion/faith.

Some modern day cults do not accept this.
So CHRISTIAN should be removed from their title and maybe some other designation offered.

I encourage you to keep up your good work...
I sure am getting tired of it.
 
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amigo de christo

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Davy,
Isn't it sad that we have to debate the divinity of Jesus with other "Christians"?

What exactly, I wonder, do they believe makes them BE A CHRISTIAN?
Maybe the fact that Jesus was a good person?

Who knows.

THIS is what I know.

Jesus is spoken of as God throughout the NT and this begins in the OT.
Jesus proclaims HIMSELF as being God,,,for which He was threatened with death and with blaspheming.

Christians understand that Jesus is God...as has been taught from the beginning of our religion/faith.

Some modern day cults do not accept this.
So CHRISTIAN should be removed from their title and maybe some other designation offered.

I encourage you to keep up your good work...
I sure am getting tired of it.
Keep in mind if what is written is twisted then its a lie that follows .
Example .
And The WORD was GOD . if that becomes and the word was A god
THEN THAT IS PROOF we gots a problem in the house . and yet a so called man
who suddenly claimed he had knowledge FROM GOD about the greek and thus he changed things
YEAH , I WOULD NOT HEED A WORD ONE outta those lips .
People always try and twist what is written , Rather than SIMPLY AS A CHILD BELEIVING IT .
 
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GodsGrace

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Keep in mind if what is written is twisted then its a lie that follows .
Example .
And The WORD was GOD . if that becomes and the word was A god
THEN THAT IS PROOF we gots a problem in the house . and yet a so called man
who suddenly claimed he had knowledge FROM GOD about the greek and thus he changed things
YEAH , I WOULD NOT HEED A WORD ONE outta those lips .
People always try and twist what is written , Rather than SIMPLY AS A CHILD BELEIVING IT .
Yes sir.
If the WORD is A god.....
it means there are many gods.

From my understanding there is ONLY ONE God.
And the WORD was part of that ONE GOD from the beginning...from eternity.

The WORD was NOT created.
But was only MADE FLESH.

What more do we need than:
John 1:1
John 1:14
 
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amigo de christo

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Davy,
Isn't it sad that we have to debate the divinity of Jesus with other "Christians"?

What exactly, I wonder, do they believe makes them BE A CHRISTIAN?
Maybe the fact that Jesus was a good person?

Who knows.

THIS is what I know.

Jesus is spoken of as God throughout the NT and this begins in the OT.
Jesus proclaims HIMSELF as being God,,,for which He was threatened with death and with blaspheming.

Christians understand that Jesus is God...as has been taught from the beginning of our religion/faith.

Some modern day cults do not accept this.
So CHRISTIAN should be removed from their title and maybe some other designation offered.

I encourage you to keep up your good work...
I sure am getting tired of it.
Would you like another example my friend .
Who first twisted what GOD said .
Nay nay surely ye shall not die . But i think we both know HE was still is the father of lies .
Because IF GOD said it , IT BE ABSOLUTE TRUTH . and yes death did come upon all mankind since the day
they ate of that tree .
NOW JESUS made darn sure to make it real clear that ONE had TO BELEIVE ON HIM or DIE in their sins THEY WOULD .
They would PERISH , they would be damned if they beleived not .
WHO we gonna beleive , HIM , the APOSTELS who went about preaching CHRIST
and even warning those who rejected him .
OR are we gonna follow world wise men , who preach a false love that entials unbeleif is just fine
and that all relgioins are serving the same God .
Cause may i remind us both , IF JESUS SAID IT , WHO SAID IT . beleive me it was not a mere mans words JESUS SPOKE .
Nor was he just a mere man , or just a prophet . IF JESUS SAID IT , GOD SAID IT and let no man say otherwise .
 

amigo de christo

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Yes sir.
If the WORD is A god.....
it means there are many gods.

From my understanding there is ONLY ONE God.
And the WORD was part of that ONE GOD from the beginning...from eternity.

The WORD was NOT created.
But was only MADE FLESH.

What more do we need than:
John 1:1
John 1:14
please excuse my mockery , but do remember even elisha mocked the false prophets .
so allow me to mock their false religoin of ecumeinalsim intefaith which its leaders
HAVE said , and have done so on stage for all to hear and all to see .
THEIR WORDS
Our religoin , meaning the christain one , is not better than your religoin , meaning all them false religoins .
We all serve the same GOD differently .
SO now allow me , in the name of so called finding ground
to find some common ground with that statement .
Those folks on that stage do serve the same god as all them other false religoins and atheist do .
BUT IT IS NOT THE GOD of the christain whose faith be IN THE TRUE GOD , THIS IN HIS CHRIST .
They serve another . and the only way to be FREED from his power , from the power of satan , cause that
be their god , IS BY FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST . YA GOTS to BELEIVE ON HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
And lipping His name but having hearts far from him , THAT BE VAIN DEATH faith as well . WE need to bible up and now
 
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Lizbeth

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Something the JWs don-t seem to be able to understand.
Amen....and one needs to first of all be born of the Spirit and have the Holy Spirit to be able to understand, who leads us into all truth. And then let no man steal their crown through lies and deceptions. Follow Christ alone, not men and churches or denominations.