1948 NOT a Complete Fulfillment of Prophecy

[BeforeThereWas]

Joshua 21
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Let us affirm that Joshua declares otherwise.

The New Covenant isn't yet actively in force.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the tense, which, when it was written, was stated in the present tense of meaning. Hebrews is thought to have been written some 38 years after the ascension of Christ. This sows to us, then, that even 38 years after Christ's ascension, the Old Covenant was still active and in force until the Second Coming after the seven year tribulation.

I'm sure there are warped commentaries out there that will say otherwise, which clearly contradicts the unmistakable language of scripture. If commentaries were all that trustworthy, they would not disagree with one another as much as they do in many, many areas of scripture.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Hello

In Mat 24:3 the disciples asked a question of Jesus with respect to the completion of the of the overarching age of the ages.

Matthew 24:3b: - the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”​

The answer is given in the rest of the chapter. Mat 24:32 provides a sign of when Israel will be redeemed, after the completion of the Exodus 20:4-6 prophecy when the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children at the end of the fourth age of the existence of Israil from the time of Isaac's birth, and the completion of Daniel 8:13-14's prophecy of the 2,300 years of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts which end when God judges the Gentile kings at Armageddon and the heavenly Host, i.e. Satan and his fellow fallen Angels who are the four beasts of Daniel 7 and the Little Horn of Daniel 8 also.

The end of the fourth age of the existence of the Israelites will occur after 96 years have passed from when the Fig tree began to bud leaves once again when, after a little while, the Israelites will renew the Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations covenant after having rejected this covenant within 40 days of Moses going up the Mountain to talk face to face with God. The Harvest season of Souls is referenced by the mentioning the Summer Season when the harvest of grain takes place.

1948 was the fulfilment of the Leason learned from the fig tree prophecy that Jesus gave.

Shalom

Nope. Ignoring convenient elements of the imagery that defines that land is the roadway into error. Israel, since 1948, has been in possession of less than 2% of that total land area promised to Abraham. That will not be fulfilled until AFTER the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the 70th week of Jacob's Trouble.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

In all my years of following the Christian support for Zionism I have not once heard that any of them believe 1948 was a complete possession of the Promised Land. Discussion?

Precisely my point being made in here. That Israel today possess less than 2% of what was promised to Abraham, that fulfillment is yet future.

BTW

 

[Randy Kluth]

Precisely my point being made in here. That Israel today possess less than 2% of what was promised to Abraham, that fulfillment is yet future.

BTW

No, your point was this....

"Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land."

These people and I myself believe that Israel's political resuscitation in 1948 was a significant prophetic event, restoring at least *part* of historical Israel. And yet Paul proclaimed that *all* of political Israel would be restored--not just a fraction of the original country. Not just a sliver of Israel would be restored, but all Israel, including the West Bank, would be restored.

 

[Wrangler]

I'm Israeli, so of course I am.

BTW

It’s hard to believe. What is your point for this thread?

 

[covenantee]

The New Covenant isn't yet actively in force.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the tense, which, when it was written, was stated in the present tense of meaning. Hebrews is thought to have been written some 38 years after the ascension of Christ. This sows to us, then, that even 38 years after Christ's ascension, the Old Covenant was still active and in force until the Second Coming after the seven year tribulation.

I'm sure there are warped commentaries out there that will say otherwise, which clearly contradicts the unmistakable language of scripture. If commentaries were all that trustworthy, they would not disagree with one another as much as they do in many, many areas of scripture.

BTW

Joshua 21:43,45 written in the past tense refers to prior promise and fulfillment, in the Old Covenant era.

 

[Jay Ross]

Nope. Ignoring convenient elements of the imagery that defines that land is the roadway into error. Israel, since 1948, has been in possession of less than 2% of that total land area promised to Abraham. That will not be fulfilled until AFTER the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the 70th week of Jacob's Trouble.

BTW

The "Promised Land" has been an error for the misunderstanding of God's promises to Israel.

The Israelites, even today, including many Christian believers, believe that the "Promised Land" is still a "forever" promise of the possession of the prescribed land pertaining to the nation of Israel, however, the English translation of the Hebrew word "‘ō·w·lām" does not convey the actual understanding of this Hebrew word. I believe that Genesis 13:14-17 should be paraphrased in this manner so that the context of the English Translation retains the context of the Hebrew text.

Genesis 13:14-17: - 14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for the entity portion of the earth which you see I give this entity to your descendants for a period of time where the end point of this period will be beyond their ability to comprehend. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for Me to give this entity."​

We should consider that the above promise of land given to Abraham was gained after Israel had returned to the Land of Canaan but that it was also lost after the death of King Solomon because of the idolatrous worship that the nation of Israel entered into and are still doing today.

The Promise of the Land of Canaan given a few chapters later was also lost because of the continual idolatrous worship of the nation of Israel in 70 AD as God foretold to King Solomon in 2 Chronicles 7:12ff.

No, the Promised Land is not on the table for Israel to regain after the Final Judgement as you are suggesting, but rather the whole earth will become theirs to possess along with the righteous Gentiles.

Shalom

 

[BeforeThereWas]

No, your point was this....

"Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land."

These people and I myself believe that Israel's political resuscitation in 1948 was a significant prophetic event, restoring at least *part* of historical Israel. And yet Paul proclaimed that *all* of political Israel would be restored--not just a fraction of the original country. Not just a sliver of Israel would be restored, but all Israel, including the West Bank, would be restored.

I agree that the complete fulfillment will take place. Absolutely, but it's not yet. preparatory stages are not fulfillments, but rather moves toward fulfillment. That was my point.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

It’s hard to believe. What is your point for this thread?

That 1948 was not THE fulfillment of any prophecy, any more than having a chassis and wheels mounted toward a functioning car, but without the engine, is not a fulfillment of the total car with a body. Preparatory stages are not THE fulfillment that is yet to come. That's my point. I keep hearing arm chair experts and enthusiasts making claims about 1948 that simply aren't true.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Joshua 21:43,45 written in the past tense refers to prior promise and fulfillment, in the Old Covenant era.

Which we are still in today given that the Law is still in force today, the difference for us in the body of Christ being that we are dead to the Law, and therefore not under it and the curse it upholds over all unbelievers.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The "Promised Land" has been an error for the misunderstanding of God's promises to Israel.

The Israelites, even today, including many Christian believers, believe that the "Promised Land" is still a "forever" promise of the possession of the prescribed land pertaining to the nation of Israel, however, the English translation of the Hebrew word "‘ō·w·lām" does not convey the actual understanding of this Hebrew word. I believe that Genesis 13:14-17 should be paraphrased in this manner so that the context of the English Translation retains the context of the Hebrew text.
​

Genesis 13:14-17: - 14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for the entity portion of the earth which you see I give this entity to your descendants for a period of time where the end point of this period will be beyond their ability to comprehend. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land through its length and its width, for Me to give this entity."​

We should consider that the above promise of land given to Abraham was gained after Israel had returned to the Land of Canaan but that it was also lost after the death of King Solomon because of the idolatrous worship that the nation of Israel entered into and are still doing today.

The Promise of the Land of Canaan given a few chapters later was also lost because of the continual idolatrous worship of the nation of Israel in 70 AD as God foretold to King Solomon in 2 Chronicles 7:12ff.

No, the Promised Land is not on the table for Israel to regain after the Final Judgement as you are suggesting, but rather the whole earth will become theirs to possess along with the righteous Gentiles.

Shalom

The KJV has it accurately enough to be clear without the muddying of the waters with debates over Hebrew idioms that don't fall within the contextual constraints.

Just my take on it.

BTW

 

[covenantee]

Which we are still in today given that the Law is still in force today, the difference for us in the body of Christ being that we are dead to the Law, and therefore not under it and the curse it upholds over all unbelievers.

BTW

How does that relate to Joshua 21:43,45?

 

[ScottA]

Genesis 15:18 — In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [Nile on the west] unto the great river, the river Euphrates[on the east side]:

Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land.

Today we of Israel possess less than 2% of that entire expanse of land, but the montras and clichés keep vomiting out from the religious zealouts over them thinking they know what they're talking about while never once consulting the scriptures for themselves to see that the claims are false, thus them looking the fool to all the Bible students who take the time to educate themselves on prophecy and geography.

Discussion?

MM

As the word of God is spirit...it was really never a promise from God regarding the "land" per se.

The passage says "from the river of Egypt" (meaning: the likes of Gomorrah and Sodom) "unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (meaning: fruitfulness). Which spiritually is to mean: A promise of all that is firm--all creation--the whole earth and the whole harvest. Which is to say, this world and flesh and blood--all that is natural.

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15:46​

 

[Jay Ross]

The KJV has it accurately enough to be clear without the muddying of the waters with debates over Hebrew idioms that don't fall within the contextual constraints.

Just my take on it.

BTW

Thanks, your response has shot you in your foot, and where you are saying that the Hebrew context is not import enough to be a constraint for the English Translations like the KJV to provide an accurate understanding of what the Hebrew texts convey means that your facade of having understanding is very much forfeited on this forum.

 

[Adventageous]

1948 was the return to Israel's self-rule, after their completed punishment.

God told Ezekiel to lay on his side 390 days, a day for a year, for the sins of Israel, and 40 days, a day for a year, for the sins of Judah.

This makes for 430 years combined. The Babylonian captivity lasted 70 years, leaving 360 remaining. In Leviticus 26, God told Israel that if they still did not obey, their punishment would be 7 times over. After the 70 years, most of the Jews did not return, and they did not build the temple God told them to build by Ezekiel.

360 years times 7 is 2520 years of 360 days (the length of the year at that time), or 2485.48 years according to our calendar.

If Cyrus' decree to return was in 536 BC, 2485 years later is 1948, the end of the 7 times over punishment, and the time for Israel's return to self rule.

Much love!

1. No, 1948 was not the "return to Israel's self-rule". Britain, the United States, and even the United Nations, among others, such as the Vatican, were, and still are, all involved in the 'rule' there.

2. The prophecies of Ezekiel, were regarding their (the peoples Israel (Northern) & Judah (Southern)) past (not future) iniquity:

Eze 4:4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.​

Eze 4:5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.​

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.​

From the time of the rebellion in Rehoboam's 4th year to the present time of Ezekiel's writing.

John Gill's Commentary on Eze. 4:5 - "... which signify three hundred and ninety years; and so many years there were from the revolt of the ten tribes from Rehoboam, and the setting up the calves at Dan and Bethel, to the destruction of Jerusalem; which may be reckoned thus: the apostasy was in the fourth year of Rehoboam, so that there remained thirteen years of his reign, for he reigned seventeen years; Abijah his successor reigned three years; Asa, forty one; Jehoshaphat, twenty five; Joram, eight; Ahaziah, one; Athaliah, seven; Joash, forty; Amaziah, twenty nine: Uzziah, fifty two; Jotham, sixteen; Ahaz, sixteen; Hezekiah, twenty nine; Manasseh, fifty five; Amos, two; Josiah, thirty one; Jehoahaz, three months; Jehoiakim, eleven years; Jeconiah, three months and ten days; and Zedekiah, eleven years; in all three hundred and ninety years. ..." - Ezekiel 4:5 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org​

- Ezekiel 4 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org​

3. The 70 years captivity by Babylon was an entirely differing time prophecy (2 Chr. 36:21; Jer. 25:11-12, 29:10; Dan. 9:2; Zec. 1:12, 7:5 KJB).

4. Leviticus 26 says nothing about a single 7 times, nor a multiplication of years, but speaks of events. It mentions at least 4 "seven times" after a series of punishments before them, all in succession, not in exact 'years', as the number 7 in these instances representing the fullness / completeness of punishment, as the number 7 from Genesis-Revelation, means complete.

Notice. If the peoples Israel disobeyed, God would send judgments / punishments - Lev. 26:14-17

[1] Terror​

[2] consumption​

[3] burning ague that consumes the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart​

[4] sow seed in vain, which enemies will eat​

[5] slain before their enemies​

[6] enemies reign over them​

[7] flee in pursuit by their enemies​

• If they refuse to repent still after those things, God would "punish [them] seven times more" (Lev. 26:18 KJB). In other words, it would be in addition to the previous '7', making '14'.
• The "more" punishments are listed in Lev. 26:19-20.
• If they still would not repent after those additional "seven times more", then "seven times more plagues" (Lev. 26:21 KJB) would come after, and are listed in Lev. 26:22-23.
• If they still would not repent after those additional additional "seven times more plagues" (Lev. 26:21 KJB), then God would "punish [them] yet seven times" (Lev. 26:24 KJB), and the "yet" meaning more, or in addition to the previous events, and these new punishments are listed in Lev. 26:25-27 KJB.
• If they still did not repent, then God said, "will chastise you seven times for your sins" (Lev. 26:28 KJB), and as such are listed in Lev. 26:29-39 KJB.

All of that was ultimately fulfilled in the days of Jeremiah-Daniel, in the 70 Years captivity, that the land lay desolate and kept her sabbaths (Lev. 26:43 KJB). They kept rebelling since the time of Rehoboam, and ended up in captivity by Babylon. Later it repeats unto the time with Rome (Deu. 28 KJB).

There is no '2520' years prophecy in all of scripture, but is a fabrication made up.

The last and longest time prophecy as a test, is the 2,300 day/years in Dan. 8:13-14,26 (beginning in 457 BC; Dan. 9:24-27; Ezr. 6:14, 7:1-28 KJB). It is corrborated by several portions, namely, the 1,260 (Dan. 7:25, 12:7; Luk. 21:24; Rev. 11:1-2, 12:6,14, 13:5 KJB; AD 538 - AD 1798), 1,290 (Dan. 12:11 KJB; AD 508 - AD 1798), 1,335 (Dan. 12:12; Rev. 14:13 KJB; AD 508 - AD 1843/44), and the 50 years Jubile (Lev. 25:8-13 KJB; AD 1793 - AD 1843/44), and the '5 months' (Rev. 9:5,6,10 KJB; from Pentecost to Trumpets, antitype, early rains to present latter rains).

• A 2,300 chart is here - 6th Trumpet 2300 Day Years Chart : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
• The 5 months charts (plural) are here - 5 Months - Five Months Of Rev 9:5,6,10 - Mega Chart - Months - Feasts - Early And Latter Rains - Pregnancy - Noah : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

5. Finally Cyrus II's decree was not in 536 BC, but in 538 BC - 538 BC - Wikipedia

This is shown by the Bible in several ways, and confirmed historically.

Cyrus II's decree was only 1 of 3 (Cyrus II (even countermanded by False Smerdis (aka Pseudo Bardiya, false Artaxerxes of Ezr. 4) &c; Darius I Hystaspes the Persian, & Artaxerxes I Longimanus / Machrocheir), as per Ezr. 6:14, in relation to "the commandment" of God (Dan. 9:25):

​

Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.​

​

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.​

​

That finally occured in the 7th year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus / Machrocheir, with full governmental autonomy, even to death, in Ezr. 7:1-28 KJB.​

 

[Adventageous]

Genesis 15:18 — In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [Nile on the west] unto the great river, the river Euphrates[on the east side]:

Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land.

Today we of Israel possess less than 2% of that entire expanse of land, but the montras and clichés keep vomiting out from the religious zealouts over them thinking they know what they're talking about while never once consulting the scriptures for themselves to see that the claims are false, thus them looking the fool to all the Bible students who take the time to educate themselves on prophecy and geography.

Discussion?

MM

All orchestrated from the Vatican, with a hidden agenda, and a public agenda. Even all the way back to the Holy Roman Empire.

People such as:

'Pope' Pius XII (aka, "Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli"; 2 March 1876 – 9 October 1958) was head of the Catholic Church and sovereign of Vatican City from 2 March 1939 until his death on 9 October 1958) - Pope Pius XII - Wikipedia

Chaim Weizmann, president of the Zionist Organization, and first President of Israel - Chaim Weizmann - Wikipedia

1917 - Chaim Weizmann lobbied the British government (specifically pro-Zionist Lord Cecil, the nephew of Arthur James Balfour; and David Lloyd George) to confirm its future physical control over Palestine. - Chaim Weizmann Lobbies Lord Cecil for Britain to Control Palestine After World War I, 1917 | CIE

"... Weizmann in 1917 and Zionist leaders such as Eliahu Elath, Aubrey (Abba) Eban and David Horowitz in 1947 and 1948 strove to keep Zionist decision-making in Zionist hands, under the auspices of a single power, and where possible influence the borders of a future Jewish state. ..." - Chaim Weizmann Lobbies Lord Cecil for Britain to Control Palestine After World War I, 1917 | CIE​

​

"... In 1943, Chaim Weizmann, who would become Israel’s first president, wrote that “the Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate the fate of my persecuted co-religionists.” Moshe Sharett, who would become Israel’s first Foreign Minister and second Prime Minister, reinforced these feelings of gratitude when he met with Pius in the closing days of World War II: “I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him, and through him the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews…We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church.” In 1945, Rabbi Isaac Herzog, the Chief Rabbi of Israel, sent a message to Msgr. Angelo Roncalli (the future Pope John XXIII), expressing his gratitude for the actions taken by Pope Pius XII on behalf of the Jewish people. “The people of Israel,” wrote Rabbi Herzog, “will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world.” In September 1945, Dr. Leon Kubowitzky, the Secretary General of the World Jewish Congress, personally thanked the Pope in Rome for his interventions on behalf of Jews, and the World Jewish Congress donated $20,000 to Vatican charities “in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist and Nazi persecutions.” ..." - A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews - Catholic League​

Charles Dreyfus; "... At [Charles] Dreyfus' suggestion Balfour and the Zionist leader Chaim Wiemann first met at a constituency meeting on 27 January 1905. ..." - Charles Dreyfus - Wikipedia

Joseph Massel (aka "Yoysef Yechezkel Mazl", of Wjasin, near Vilna, Russia), a part of the Manchester Zionist community, was the one to introduce Charles Dreyfus to Chaim Weizmann. - Joseph Massel - Wikipedia

Britain's - Balfour Declaration (1917), President (US) Woodrow Wilson endorsed it, along with the Leage of Nations.

Lionel Walter Rothschild, had studied at Magdalene College, Cambridge, a "Benedictine" Catholic University.
- Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild - Wikipedia
- https://www.rothschildarchive.org/f...walter_rothschild_and_the_balfour_declaration

"November 2nd, 1917​

​

Dear Lord Rothschild [Lionel Walter Rothschild],​

​

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.​

​

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."​

​

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.​

​

Yours sincerely,​

​

Arthur James Balfour" - The Avalon Project : Balfour Declaration November 2, 1917​

Rothschilds (Red Shields, for Rome); “... the Roths-childs that at the present time the latter are the guardians of the papal treasure.” - ROTHSCHILD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The name Rothschild, "... whose name is derived from the German zum rothen Schild (with the old spelling "th"), meaning "with the red shield" ..." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild - Wikipedia

The [Papal] "Court Jew" - [Papal] Court Jews go back to the Habsburg of the Holy Roman Empire - House of Habsburg - Wikipedia

Simon Wolf Oppenheimer, was a [Papal] Court Jew, who later trained Mayer Amschel Rothschild - Simon Wolf Oppenheimer - Wikipedia

...

 

[Adventageous]

Genesis 15:18 — In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [Nile on the west] unto the great river, the river Euphrates[on the east side]:

Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land.

Today we of Israel possess less than 2% of that entire expanse of land, but the montras and clichés keep vomiting out from the religious zealouts over them thinking they know what they're talking about while never once consulting the scriptures for themselves to see that the claims are false, thus them looking the fool to all the Bible students who take the time to educate themselves on prophecy and geography.

Discussion?

MM

...

WWII, American Zionists (1942; May 6 to May 11, 1942 in New York.) adopt Biltmore Program - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-biltmore-conference-1942

1944 Democratic Party, unrestricted Jewish immigration.

President (US) Harry Truman (1947) endorses Partition Plan for Palestine, to create an Arab and Israeli state, along with appointing special cabinet committee under the chairmanship of (Democratic) Dr. Henry Francis Grady (a graduate of Roman Catholicism's St. Mary's University of Baltimore in 1907.

"A former president of the Chamber of Commerce here, Dr. Grady also had headed the World Affairs Council. He was a one time board chairman of the Twelfth Federal Reserve Bank. ... He took graduate work at Catholic University, Columbia and the University of California." - https://www.nytimes.com/1957/09/15/...is-dead-exenvoy-to-india-iran-and-greece.html​

Henry Francis Grady is buried in Holy Cross Catholic Cemetery, Colma, San Mateo County, California, USA - Henry Francis Grady (1882-1957) - Find a Grave...

Henry Francis Grady's US State department roles - Henry Francis Grady - People - Department History - Office of the Historian

His wife, Lucretia del Valle Grady was also Catholic, even back to her grandfather "Ygnacio del Valle" and grandmother, "Ysabel del Valle" (aka, "María Eufemia Ysabel Varela del Valle") - Lucretia del Valle Grady - Wikipedia
- Ygnacio del Valle - Wikipedia

"... She maintained strong ties with the Catholic Daughters of Charity in Los Angeles and established a Roman Catholic chapel at the rancho, where family and visitors celebrated their faith ..." - Incorporating Mexican California​

​

- "... 2016 exhibit at the library of Loyola Marymount University focused Ysabel del Valle's religious devotion ..." - Ysabel del Valle - Wikipedia​

- Loyola Marymount is a Jesuit university - Loyola Marymount University - Wikipedia

President (US) Harry Truman recognizes (May 14, 1948) 'State of Israel', along with "David Ben-Gurion" (head of the Jewish Agency). - https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-185393/

Clark Gifford, special advisor, to President (US) Truman, was a "Christian Zionist", who had made several suggestions to Truman. - Clark Clifford - Wikipedia
- https://uwo.scholaris.ca/server/api/core/bitstreams/870d96b1-fc41-4e20-bfc0-198860b166a6/content

A brief history of the US-Israel ‘special relationship’ shows how connections have shifted since long before the 1948 founding of the Jewish state

A historian of the Middle East examines the decades-old ‘special relationship’ between Israel and the US.

theconversation.com

Eliahu Elath (aka, Ilya Menakhemovich Epstein, of the Russian Empire, now Ukraine), being Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, and in 1948 first Israeli ambassador to the United States, and President of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem; and director of the Jewish Agency for Palestine's Middle East Department; presented the 'ark' to President (US) Harry Truman (1948) -
- Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian
- Eliahu Eilat - Wikipedia

"... [Teddy Kollek, who] was "a proud Israeli, who in his youth had run guns and done intelligence work for David Ben-Gurion; as Mayor of Jerusalem ..." - https://rcan.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Vol.-56-No.-2-January-24-Catholic-Advocate.pdf​

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[ewq1938]

The New Covenant isn't yet actively in force.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the tense, which, when it was written, was stated in the present tense of meaning. Hebrews is thought to have been written some 38 years after the ascension of Christ. This sows to us, then, that even 38 years after Christ's ascension, the Old Covenant was still active and in force until the Second Coming after the seven year tribulation.

LOL. It's dead and rotting and only it's rotten corpse is not yet fully gone. Cling to that nastiness if you want. The NT is fully active and ALIVE.

 

[Adventageous]

LOL. It's dead and rotting and only it's rotten corpse is not yet fully gone. Cling to that nastiness if you want. The NT is fully active and ALIVE.

Truly. Paul's statement in Hebrews:

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.​

Is fulfilled in the absolute destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, in AD 70, under the generalship of Titus (Cestias sieges before him), and the Emperor Vespasian.

Paul wrote those words, while the Temple and City were still standing, and physical sacrifices were still taking place (though useless then, since AD 31 and Calvary), and Paul had many times come to visit during Pentecosts, and preached on those occasions.

Act_20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.​

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1Co_16:8 But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.​

As Paul knew that millions of Jews would travel to Jerusalem, and the Temple during that period of time, and so preach the Everlasting Gospel unto them, that they, as individuals, might be saved under the New / Everlasting / Eternal Covenant in Christ Jesus, made before the foundation of the world.

AD 31:

Mat_27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;​

Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.​

Luk_23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.​

Mat_23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.​

Luk_13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

 

[Jay Ross]

1948 was the return to Israel's self-rule, after their completed punishment.

Sorry Marks, your understanding of Irael's visitation of their father's iniquities upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth age of their existence has not yet come to its completion and will not until around 2044-2045 AD. Also, the Daniel 8:13-14 prophecy of Israel being trampled for 2,300 years also does not reach its completion until 2044-2045 AD, after which Paul informs us that when the trampling of Israel has reached it conclusion with respect to this Daniel 8 prophecy, then all of Israel will be saved.

We also have to be mindful of Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 which tells us the outcome over Israel because of their Idolatrous Worship and that when they repent of their continual sins of idol worship, that after 2044-2045 AD God will once more hear from heaven and incline His ear toward them and begin to draw them to Himself and heal them.

1948 was when the fig tree began to bud leaves and it signalled that after 96 years that the harvest season for Israel will begin and that God will sprinkle water over them and renew the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations covenant with them that they rebelled against at Mt Sinai.

It is not until the judgement of the Heavenly Host, i.e. Satan, the angel beasts and the beastly Little Horn and the Kings of the earth occurs around 2044-2045 that Israel will begin to turn to God.

It is not until the judgement of the Kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts occurs that Israel will reject Satan as their master, in a communique with God when Satan goes away into the Bottomless pit and seek Christ's terms of peace while He is judging the Kings of the earth at Armageddon.

Anybody suggesting that Israel has repented and that they repented in 1948 while acting God like in their taking of the Land of Canaan to establish the Nation of Israel does not understand what is presently happening with respect to the nation of Israel.

We need more understanding of God's end times plan rather than jumping to conclusion which might fit what we would like to happen.

Shalom