"what shall be the sign of thy coming"

[Ziggy]

This is a scripture that gets thrown about a lot, but Thomas wasn’t saying what most in Christendom assume, because the word “theos” in Greek has many meanings other than what Christendom gives it.

According to Strongs....”theos” means....

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”

So any deity or divine personage can be referred to as “theos” without it inferring deity.

It can also mean....

1. “refers to the things of God
2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
3. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges”

Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4...and so are the judges in Israel, (John 10:31-36) but for different reasons.
Referring to Jesus as “theos”, when Thomas was an apostle who would not have held beliefs different to his fellow apostles, who said collectively.....

“For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.” (NKJV)

For all the apostles, there was just “one God, the Father” AND “one Lord Jesus Christ”.
Calling Jesus “theos” was acknowledging his divinity, his divine origin, not his deity.

The topic is "What shall be the sign of thy coming" .
The disciples are anticipating the Kingdom of God on earth.
Problem is they don't realize that the Kingdom of God is standing right in front of them.
Problem was they couldn't see beyond the flesh.
As is today, people still waiting for a future Kingdom which has never left us, we just don't see it.
Deu 31:6
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
Pro 3:3
Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

There is only one God. God became flesh and dwelt among men in human form and his name is Jesus.
Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The difference is God the Father was only known in the spiritual aspect. Something they couldn't see or touch.
But when God came as a man in the flesh, Thomas recognized him for who he truly is.
Jhn 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Deu 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

If there is none beside the Lord who is God, and Jesus IS Lord, Then Jesus is God also.

Jesus in God spiritual form created for himself a vessel to pour his own essence into. When he was born into the world, subjecting himself under the law of Moses, (because I believe God could of chosen any nation to expose himself to) chose Israel and the tribe of Judah by promise to come and save the very people that didn't recognize him in either form.
And this promise was made to Abraham who was a gentile.
Israel wasn't a people until Jacob.
But God has always been God before he was considered a Jew.
The only reason why Jesus is considered a Jew is because God chose a nation to put his name in. But in truth Jesus is neither Jew nor Gentile. Jesus is God in human form and that's the name God gave himself for peoples of all nations to bow down and worship.

Phl 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phl 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jhn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Who is the creator of heaven and earth?

Isa 40:28
Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

The Everlasting God:
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

All I know is when I die and I stand before my maker, I will be bowing at the feet of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Hos 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Luk 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

There is only one God and his name is Jesus Christ.
Hugs

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is a lot to respond to so I’ll break it up...for the benefit of the readers here who deserve the truth....a very inconvenient truth for many.

Of course it’s not your problem.....but what IS in your control, is the same as it is for all of us.....what we choose as our “truth” will determine which road we are travelling. Remember that the deluded majority will not know that they are on the wrong path until they hear Jesus’ rejection. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

Well, one of the “essentials” that determines who has accepted the truth or not, is outlined by Jesus himself in John 17:3-4, as a salvation issue.

“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.” (ESV)

So Jesus tells us that in order to gain eternal life, we need to know “the only true God AND Jesus Christ” whom he “sent”.
If Jesus is God, then why does he present his Father as “the only true God” without including himself or the the third ‘person’, who are all supposedly the same God?

Because He is God and man at the same time. If you don't differentiate between His deity and His humanity, you just aren't going to get it. Scripture REPEATEDLY indicates that Jesus is God and you still don't accept it! You are blinded by Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Thomas understood that Jesus is God when calling Him "my God". Why can't you understand that?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Do you understand that this passage is about Jesus? It calls him "The Mighty God". How can you deny that He is God when there are explicit verses like these and more that say He is God?

If we can’t figure that out from the Scriptures, then the whole basis for our faith has collapsed.

We can figure that out from the scriptures, but you can't because you are blinded by your religion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When you quote Scripture, you betray any real understanding of what is said, and instead read with Christendom’s blinkers on.

LOL! This is rich coming from a Jehovah's Witness who denies the deity of Christ despite it being clearly taught in scripture. LOL!

What is Paul saying here that agrees with everything else that is written about the God he thought he once knew, and was prepared to put to death any who opposed his beliefs, as blasphemers?
We won’t all get a tap on the shoulder like he did.

What does this passage really say, as opposed to what you think it does?
1) We have to “confess the Lord Jesus” and “believe that God raised him from the dead”.....so who raised Jesus? His God or himself?

It's talking about God the Father. Jesus is God the Son. Your lack of discernment is startling. God the Father raised Jesus as a man from the dead, but that doesn't mean that Jesus is not also God. What prevents you from understanding that Jesus is both God and man at the same time? Why do you think that can't be the case? Scripture teaches it repeatedly, but you still don't accept it, to your shame.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What does Rom 6:7 actually say?

NWT...”For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

ESV...”For one who has died has been set free from sin.”

KJV...”For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

NLT...”For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.”

So what is the word in Greek that the NWT translates as “acquitted”?

“dikaioō” is the Word and it means.....
“to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent:—free, justify(-ier), be righteous.”

So what is Rom 6:7 actually saying? That one who has died is no longer under the penalty of sin, which is death.

It's not talking about physical death! You are not looking at the context. Read the surrounding verses to see the context.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Look at verses 2 through 4 here and compare them to verse 7. Paul asked a question in verse 2, which included himself, which was "How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?". So, the context of what Paul is talking about in Romans 6 is established right there. He's talking about dying to sin. He's talking about the current reality for him and other Christians that they had died to sin in the sense of submitting their lives to Jesus Christ after repenting of their sins instead of living in sin with no repentance. Speaking in the present tense, Paul, including himself, said "we were buried with Him through baptism into death" in response to Jesus being raised from the dead and he said, because of that, "we also should walk in newness of life". He was talking about walking in newness of life during this lifetime. The Bible talks about us being made "a new creation" when we're saved. We no longer give ourselves over to sin and instead our desire is to give ourselves over to Jesus to obey Him.

So, with that context being established, when Paul says "he who has died has been freed from sin", he's talking about those who have died to sin by way of repenting of their sins and giving their lives to Jesus Christ in order to "walk in newness of life". When you repent of your sins and you submit to Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit then comes to dwell in you and your sins are forgiven. You are freed from being in slavery to sin at that point because you have repented and shown a desire to follow Christ instead.

Then look at verses 10 and 11 to continue seeing the context of what Paul was talking about. Speaking in present tense, Paul said that just as Jesus died to sin once for all and that He now lives for God (the Father), we should likewise consider ourselves to be dead to sin and instead spiritually "alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord".

If you can't even understand that being a Christian and belonging to Christ means that you have been set free from sin (particularly the wages of sin which is eternal death), then that makes me very concerned about your spiritual status.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The topic is "What shall be the sign of thy coming" .
The disciples are anticipating the Kingdom of God on earth.
Problem is they don't realize that the Kingdom of God is standing right in front of them.
Problem was they couldn't see beyond the flesh.
As is today, people still waiting for a future Kingdom which has never left us, we just don't see it.

Thank you Ziggy, I can see what Christendom’s doctrines are....I was raised with them, and I have examined them carefully to see if any of them fit into the “big picture”, so to speak.

The big picture is the Bible’s overarching theme....man’s fall into sin and God’s rescue mission to undo the damage that it caused in his entire family.....in heaven and on earth.

The first rebel was not human, and so God’s first response was to address what the rebellion meant for his heavenly family, who had been in existence for eons of time, even before material creation was brought into existence. From among his previously faithful spirit sons emerged a rebel, whose conduct was unconscionable. Not until the creation of lower beings could this spirit son contemplate worship being given to himself. But he had to separate the humans from God, and take his place as their god and ruler.....being a guardian cherub stationed in the garden, he observed all that transpired and carefully plotted his course.

When we have a jig-saw puzzle we rely on the picture on the box to know where the pieces all fit to form one picture. When I see Christendom’s take on Scripture all I see are fragmented pockets of belief that do not mesh with one another.....there are lots of stories that just don’t add up.

There are many things that Christendom doesn’t take into consideration in their attempts to offer Scripture as proof of their beliefs. All of the Scripture you quoted comes straight from a religious empire created by that first rebel. In taking God’s place among mankind he delivered many forms of worship in the world, all designed to take worship away from the true God. But his greatest triumph, as Jesus foretold was turning “wheat” into “weeds”. This was a counterfeit “Christianity” that could only have emerged if the devil had time to slyly infiltrate the Christian arrangement and corrupt it from within, over a long period of time for us earth bound humans, but no time at all for the beings who inhabit the spirit realm where time is of no real consequence.

The apostle Peter is the one who told us that “that one day is with the LORD as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.”....echoing the words of Psalm 90:4 where universal time is contrasted with earth time.

So for us, what seems like an eternity for God to address the rebellion in Eden, to him is no time at all. So we can understand why it took over 4000 years for the promised Messiah to make his first appearance....and here we are almost 2000 years later still, waiting for his promised return.

I think that this fact is lost on those who subscribe to Christendom’s take on Scripture...and why the devil has been permitted such a long time to do the damage we see that has taken place on this earth.

Unless God allowed satan to do his best to take the worship of the whole human race away from him, the accusations made about God in Eden would never have been answered....(Luke 4:5-7) and other spirit sons could follow satan in rebellion...and undo his purpose all over again.....and as we saw, many of them did follow satan....but this way he deals with them all in one amazing exercise of patient endurance.

Free will was a gift, but it had the potential for abuse. Satan was the first angel to rebel, and he was the one who created the opportunity for the human race to join him and give him what he wanted, as shown in Luke 4:5-7.
What a victory that would have been...to have God’s son give satan worship....bating him with the prospect of world rulership. Something Christ was going to have in the future, but by offering it to him prematurely he would avoid the horrendous death that was foretold for him. Jesus would have none of it!

But the devil introduced false worship clandestinely because no human with any sensibility would deliberately choose to worship the devil. Only the incorrigibly wicked would do that. So he disguised himself in all of them, masquerading as a benevolent god to gain their trust and their worship. He even lured many into child sacrifice as a way to please him....even Israel succumbed to that horrendous practice!

By giving satan time and opportunity, God can settle those issues once and for all time....so that when God reintroduces his rulership (his Kingdom in the capable hands of his most trusted son and his elect) faithful mankind on this earth will reap the benefits mentioned in Rev 21:2-4......there will be no loopholes or reasons for God to ever allow such things again.

I don’t think this perspective is even given any thought by those who promote these scriptures as proof of their doctrines....they are no such thing when you study the Bible and the original languages that are easy to consult and evaluate by the use of a good concordance.

If we are Bible students instead of blind Bible readers with Christendom’s doctrines ringing in our ears, we will come to very different conclusions about a lot of things.

 

[Ziggy]

There is a lot of things happening right now and it's subtle but I can feel it in my bones.

I came across this passage and said, That's it exactly. This is what I found:

Deu 18:10
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11
Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12
For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

I found that when I was looking at this:
Act 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Act 19:14
And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Act 19:15
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Act 19:16
And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

which led me to magicians. And Sceva means mind-reader. Made me think about MKUltra and hypnotism.
And I'm watching the world go round and the war is real.
People trying hard to break the spell they have been under. And others who are free trying to save the others... as if by fire.
This whole world has been under the hypnotism of lies and falsehoods. Jesus brought us truth and light.
And God said: Let there be Light, and God saw the Light that it was good. Jesus is the Light.
You notice how many people are coming to Jesus lately? Mostly young ones. There is a revival going on around the world.
Look at Iran, they are on the verge of being free from Islamists. They want their home back.
On the other hand, there are a lot of upheavals (earthquakes) taking place in a lot of different countries.

You know we have been under attack by at least three different directions. As Christians, we are fighting against Islam, and Communism, and Globalists. Those are some pretty sharp arrows if you don't have a shield. And a lot of people just putting the armour on for the first time. THE BATTLE is here. Good against Evil, Light against Darkness.
We are here.

And then you have the media and politicians and advocate groups and lobbyists. Everybody telling you which to believe. They all sound so sincere or absolute hypocrites. And depending upon which side your on, you know it and can feel it too.

You have one side saying find Jesus and the other side saying, there is no god.
Christians around the world are beginning to fight for their Faith. And everybody is trying to squash it.
They don't want us quiet, they want us dead.

In Essence they are trying to kill God.. again. Make Him disappear.

Jhn 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

That's NOW.
Know ye not that the Kingdom of God is within you?
Waiting to be manifested in the earth.
The seed has budded, the Tree is strong.
And soon it will cover the earth.

Fight for the Faith and help others to Fight also.

We are already in the Kingdom, but the manifestation of it has to come through who we are and what we do.
We have to make it tangible.
Like when Moses built the tabernacle. They had to create something that showed the world who they believed in.
They had it right on the outside but they didn't have it on the inside.
That Faith that we have in a future Kingdom is here and now. And we have to participate in the creation of it.
We have to build.
And the only way to build that Kingdom is from the heart. It has to be sincere, there needs to be mercy and justice. Fairness, Righteousness.

It's going to take each and every one of us (as lively stones) fortifying and strengthening the walls.
The wolves are all around us and they will take what we don't save.
They will get them with drugs, money, celebrity, acceptance, an easy life. And they won't realize they are being used to push their agenda.

The world is filled with sorcerers. charmers, psychiatrists. People that lead other people away from the light.
But God is moving and shaking things up.
Wake up... we are living under the dark cloud of delusion. Not to confuse us but to test us and keep our swords sharp and our shield secure. Strap on your helmet. Where in for one hell of a ride.

We are fighting many battles right now. Just stay focused on who you are and what you are doing to build a new world.
The Kingdom of God is already here, we just have to get to work tending it.

Hugs

 

[Aunty Jane]

Scripture REPEATEDLY indicates that Jesus is God and you still don't accept it! You are blinded by Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine.

Just as you said...the Scriptures ”indicate” something that they don’t come out and say directly.
The only quote by Jesus is that he confesses to being ”the son of God”. (John 10:31-36)
The trinity did not become “church” doctrine until the 4th century.....which is why Jesus didn’t mention it.
If Jesus never said it....who said it was true?
Are you blinded like the majority, by an ancient lie?

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Thomas understood that Jesus is God when calling Him "my God". Why can't you understand that?

I can understand perfectly, because what Thomas called Jesus wasn’t Yahweh.
Look up the word ”theos” in Greek, it can just as correctly mean a divine one....satan is called “theos”. (2 Cor 4:4)

Thomas didn’t disagree with all the other apostles....who said collectively, that their “one God” was “the Father”. (1 Cor 8:5-6) Being Jewish they also believed Deut 6:4.
Your evidence is unconvincing. Without a direct statement, there is no doctrine.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,

By definition he is a “mighty God”...he is just never called “Almighty God” as this title belongs to Yahweh alone. (Psalm 83:18)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The “Prince of Peace” is the Son of a King....and it is ‘the zeal of the Lord of Hosts who will perform this’.
In the Hebrew, the divine name is used there....Yahweh is “the Lord of hosts”....it is the Father who sit his Son on his throne. You know about co-regency?

We can figure that out from the scriptures, but you can't because you are blinded by your religion.

But of course, you couldn’t possibly be blinded yourself?

It's talking about God the Father. Jesus is God the Son.

There is no such person mentioned in Scripture....find me one verse that calls Jesus ”God the Son”. Then find me one that says “”God the Holy Spirit”. An apostate church invented those titles.

What prevents you from understanding that Jesus is both God and man at the same time?

The Bible. Nowhere does it ever say that Jesus was a god-man. Either he was 100% human, or 100% God because if he was human, he could die and redeem the human race...but if he was God...an immortal cannot die and his death was faked. Jesus was the “last Adam” and so he had to die as the first Adam’s equivalent.
He had to be 100% human to do that.

Why do you think that can't be the case? Scripture teaches it repeatedly, but you still don't accept it, to your shame.

It’s a shame you don’t see what Scripture plainly says....not what it infers or indicates because you want a certain doctrine to be true.....but what it actually states, unequivocally. Jesus identified himself as the “only begotten son of God”.
John 1:18 plainly says that “no man has ever seen God”...but thousands of people saw Jesus.

As the appointed “mediator between God and men” he cannot be God, otherwise we would need a mediator between us and him.

In heaven Jesus calls his Father “my God” 4 times in one verse. (Rev 3:12) Does the son worship his Father even in heaven? If they are equally God, how is that possible or even logical?

There is more Scripture that argues against the trinity than for it...

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I can understand perfectly, because what Thomas called Jesus wasn’t Yahweh.
Look up the word ”theos” in Greek, it can just as correctly mean a divine one....satan is called “theos”. (2 Cor 4:4)

Thomas didn’t disagree with all the other apostles....who said collectively, that their “one God” was “the Father”. (1 Cor 8:5-6) Being Jewish they also believed Deut 6:4.
Your evidence is unconvincing. Without a direct statement, there is no doctrine.

By definition he is a “mighty God”...he is just never called “Almighty God” as this title belongs to Yahweh alone. (Psalm 83:18)

No matter what anyone shows you, you will deny the truth. That is very clear.

 

[ewq1938]

Look up the word ”theos” in Greek, it can just as correctly mean a divine one....satan is called “theos”. (2 Cor 4:4)

satan is never called Theos. That's speaking of God.

 

[Davidpt]

1 Thess. 3: 13 refers to the saints who are asleep in Christ. (see 4: 14) That is the context of the letter. The timing is before the Day of the Lord - the gathering together of the Body of Christ.



Zech. 14: 5 does NOT say `saints.` The Hebrew ward is `holy ones.` Thus we need more scriptures to find out who those `holy ones are. Jesus Himself tells us that it is the angels that come with Him in power and great glory.

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

The timing there is at the end of the trib, when the Lord comes with His angelic army to deliver Israel and bring vengeance upon the rebellious

You are probably also going to argue that Psalms 106:16 below, for example, doesn't say 'saint', either. Right? If nothing else, the passage below makes it crystal clear, that in some cases qadowsh can certainly mean human saints. But because of doctrinal bias' it doesn't mean human saints in Zechariah 14:5, though. Go figure.


qadowsh
or qadosh {kaw-doshe'}; from 'qadash' (6942); sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary:--holy (One), saint.


Psalms 106:16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint(qadowsh) of the LORD.

 

[Davidpt]

satan is never called Theos. That's speaking of God.

Look at all the translations below. Unless I missed one, not one single one of them capitalized god in that verse. And it's pretty obvious as to why. It is because God is not meant, satan is meant. I thought everyone at least already agreed with that, that God is not meant, satan is?

2 Corinthians 4:4 - Compare Bible Verse Translations

Compare Bible translations of 2 Corinthians 4:4 using all available Bible versions and commentary. "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God"

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[ewq1938]

Look at all the translations below. Unless I missed one, not one single one of them capitalized god in that verse. And it's pretty obvious as to why. It is because God is not meant, satan is meant. I thought everyone at least already agreed with that, that God is not meant, satan is?

The writer spoke of God not satan.

2Co 3:11 through 2Co 4:15

for if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
and not as moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in christ.
but even unto this day, when moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

*God blinded these people and even today that blindness remains.

nevertheless when it shall turn to the lord, the vail shall be taken away. now the lord is that spirit: and where the spirit of the lord is, there is liberty.
but we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the spirit of the lord.
therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of god deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of god. but if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

*Context matters and the context here is regarding God blinding Israel. Was Israel lost? Was the Gospel hidden from them? Yes. Jer_50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep" . Who the lost are here, the ones that the gospel is hidden from is all here in this letter. Israel.

in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of christ, who is the image of god, should shine unto them.

*Keeping context sound, there has been no abrupt change inserting satan into this dialogue. The subject is Israel, the ones who are lost, the ones God blinded, and the ones the Gospel was hidden from. "god" here is the same "god" Paul has been speaking of and the ones being blinded by this "god" are the same ones Paul just mentioned literally a handful of sentences before! Israel.

for we preach not ourselves, but christ jesus the lord; and ourselves your servants for jesus' sake.
for god, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ.

*Contexually this is the SAME GOD as the one above, " the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not".

but we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of god, and not of us.
we are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
always bearing about in the body the dying of the lord jesus, that the life also of jesus might be made manifest in our body.

for we which live are alway delivered unto death for jesus' sake, that the life also of jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
so then death worketh in us, but life in you.
we having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, i believed, and therefore have i spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
knowing that he which raised up the lord jesus shall raise up us also by jesus, and shall present us with you.
for all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of god.

*same God being spoken of, same people blinded.

Guess what? This is the same thing Paul mentioned in the book of Romans earlier:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And that came from something Christ spoke of:

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Who hath believed their report? Not Israel, who was blinded. Not Israel, because that report was the Gospel and it was hidden from them, 2Co_3:14 and 2Co_4:3-4

Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

They could not believe because God blinded them and hid the Gospel from them.

Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

He/God blinded their eyes and hardened their heart. Why? So they could not see nor understand and be converted and healed by God.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


Why blind them to keep them from being healed and finding that glorious light of Christ? It wasn't time for that yet.

What John 12:40 says is the same thing that 2 Corinthians 4:4 says:

God "hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

God "hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."

1. "hath blinded the minds of them which believe not"
1. "hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart"

2. "lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ" "should shine unto them"
2. "they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted" nor healed.

Having your eyes "blinded" and your heart "hardened" is the same thing as having your "mind" blinded.

"converting and being healed" is the same thing as receiving "the light of the glorious gospel of Christ".

 

[Ziggy]

It's a mystery to me, but somehow God always manages to give the people exactly what they want until they figure out that what they thought they wanted wasn't what they really wanted after all.

Sometimes you can't tell them, you have to show them.
This could be a real interesting history lesson for the rest of the country.

Be careful what you wish for.
And good luck, Happy New Year, NY.

Hugs

 

[Marilyn C]

You are probably also going to argue that Psalms 106:16 below, for example, doesn't say 'saint', either. Right? If nothing else, the passage below makes it crystal clear, that in some cases qadowsh can certainly mean human saints. But because of doctrinal bias' it doesn't mean human saints in Zechariah 14:5, though. Go figure.


qadowsh
or qadosh {kaw-doshe'}; from 'qadash' (6942); sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary:--holy (One), saint.


Psalms 106:16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint(qadowsh) of the LORD.

As you wrote qadosh means - sacred, an angel or saint. Thus, we need more scriptures to show which and also context. (Ps. 106: 16 as you wrote)

Jesus (& Paul) said -

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

[Aunty Jane]

satan is never called Theos. That's speaking of God.

It is apparent that you have never examined the Scriptures with an interlinear or a good concordance.
Greek had no upper or lower case letters, so the capitals were added by translators.
Putting a capital letter where one was not required, can make a verse say something it never meant to its original audience.

“Theos” in its primary definition, means....”a god, goddess, deity or divinity”...and it was applied to number of persons in the Bible....angels, human judges, satan and Jesus....as well as to Yahweh himself. But since the Greeks had no word for a god who was nameless (as the God of the Jews then was) he was identified by using the definite article “ho”, meaning “THE” God of the Jews.

So this is a classic example of translation bias found in John 1:1....where “theos” is used twice....once with the definite article, and once without it.

In Greek John 1:1 says....”In the beginning was the Word,(ho logos) and the Word (ho logos) was with God, (ho theos) and the Word was God.”
“Ho logos” was WITH “ho theos” but “ho logos” was just “theos”....a divine, God-like one....who was the image of his Father. (Col 1:15)

In John 1:14, it was “ho logos” who “became flesh”...not “ho theos”.
And in verse 18, it plainly states that “no man has ever seen God”. Thousands saw Jesus.

See how easily things can get twisted?

Without the definite article singling out who “ho logos” was “with”, “theos” in the first instance is definitely Yahweh, but the second instance is indicating not Yahweh, but a different divine person. The God of Israel was never three persons....he was always just one. (Deut 6:4)

Unless you investigate the original language words, translation bias will change everything you thought you knew about the relationship of Yahweh and his Son.
Jesus was the unique “Son of God” long before his earthly mission.
He himself said that he is “The beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14)

 

[ewq1938]

It is apparent that you have never examined the Scriptures with an interlinear or a good concordance.

Same to you.

Greek had no upper or lower case letters, so the capitals were added by translators.

In the Greek manuscripts all letters were large, like capitals but without that meaning.

In John 1:14, it was “ho logos” who “became flesh”...not “ho theos”.
And in verse 18, it plainly states that “no man has ever seen God”. Thousands saw Jesus.

The writer was saying no one fully understood, not see as in with eyesight. Do some studying into the verse.

See how easily things can get twisted?

Without the definite article singling out who “ho logos” was “with”, “theos” in the first instance is definitely Yahweh, but the second instance is indicating not Yahweh, but a different divine person. The God of Israel was never three persons....he was always just one. (Deut 6:4)

Unless you investigate the original language words, translation bias will change everything you thought you knew about the relationship of Yahweh and his Son.
Jesus was the unique “Son of God” long before his earthly mission.
He himself said that he is “The beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14)

Jesus the human was created but not the one who incarnated, because God the Son was not created.

The rock of Israel was God, and the NT says that rock was Christ so Christ is God.