1948 NOT a Complete Fulfillment of Prophecy

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BeforeThereWas

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Here's the narrative again.

Joshua 21
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Ok, so dare we read that, word for word, we see that it does not say that they possessed ALL the land that was given to them. I showed to you other contexts that clarified that that they did not force out all the nations they were commanded to drive out.

So, again, please show where it's stated that they ever possessed, controlled, ALL that was given to them, and please do so without assuming into the text what isn't there. That's all I'm asking.

BTW
 

BeforeThereWas

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Yes we are in the dispensation of Grace. But that does not preclude God fulfilling prophecy in this age to be concluded in the tribulation age.

We may see the one world govt of Dan. 7 before the rapture.

We may see the rise of the ten kings (horns and toes) of Daniel before the rapture.

Things like the anti christ, The church may see His rise and come to political power before the rapture.

We may see the building of the tribulation temple before the rapture.

We may see the gog/Magog Invasion before the rapture

All these are events that directly affect the tribulation period, but they could be fulfilled in the church age.

Israel becoming a nation, the restoring of Jerusalem, the shekel and Biblical Hebrew are all fulfilment of prophecy now that are defintively things that are prominsnt in the dispensation of the tribulation.

Well, I can see that we're simply not going to agree, even though I quoted to you the English definition of fulfillment, which is "completion."

As to the rapture and the events surrounding that, the only one of which we know that will trigger that event is the "fullness of the Gentiles be come in." All the other stuff leading up to that point, those to are not the completed fulfillments of any prophecy. That's the point I was making in relation to the English definition of "fulfillment." If I take out a loan, even though I'm making payments, it is not a fulfilled agreement until the last payment is made and it is completed.

BTW
 

covenantee

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Ok, so dare we read that, word for word, we see that it does not say that they possessed ALL the land that was given to them. I showed to you other contexts that clarified that that they did not force out all the nations they were commanded to drive out.

So, again, please show where it's stated that they ever possessed, controlled, ALL that was given to them, and please do so without assuming into the text what isn't there. That's all I'm asking.

BTW
The grammatical antecedent/referent of "it" is "all the land".

Thus, they possessed all the land that the Lord gave them.

The declaration is clear and plain.
 

ewq1938

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There's the problem with what you're saying. His Blood wasn't a covenant. It was a testament. Covenant and testament are not synonymous.


LOL, false. They are the same things exactly.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Same exact word and meaning. A Testament is exactly the same as a Covenant.

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


1. Heb 9:15 Jesus "is the mediator of the new testament"
2. Heb 12:24 "Jesus the mediator of the new covenant"
 
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ScottA

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Sorry, but I don't see where you're coming from. Are you assuming that your rules for the application of allegorical interpretation comes from God? Please prove that.

Thanks

BTW
I am not "assuming", nor do I have any "rules" or "interpretation." I gave some information that may appear to be my interpretation--but it's not--I only gave it to offer a means of reasoning for you (and others) to consider that is biblical. Big difference.

But since you asked... most of the time I don't get on here and just chat from my own thinking or understanding. On the contrary, as it is written, it is not me who speaks, "but the Holy Spirit." How is it that you do not believe and expect such to occur?
 

Adventageous

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And what you said is factually incorrect.
No, what I said, is factually demonstrated by the materials I provided, and to cut off the remaining context of my reply is not true justice to my response. However, I see, I will not be able to appeal to reason with yourself on this matter, and so will simply leave you to your a prioric agenda, which is your prerogative.

When people claim that '1948' is a fulfillment of prophecy (from scripture), and was the restoration of "Israel", they are extremely vague at best, and determine, for whatever their personal agenda / reasons, their own mental definition of such. For instance, "Israel" was a collection, originally, of the 12 tribes of physical descendants of Jacob / Israel, along with the tribe of Levi (throughout), and it was not merely a political or secular entity, but a spiritual (even religious) one, under the rulership of JEHOVAH Elohiym (Num. 23:21 KJB), and later through various chosen persons:

Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.​

People such as David ben-Gurion, are notoriously non-religious ( David Ben-Gurion - Wikipedia ) , and were purely secular in their endeavors ( Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia ). The so-called "state of Israel" had nothing to do with having JEHOVAH Elohiym as their ruler in matters of state, nor of their religion, since many of them were secularists (non-religious). "The United Nations General Assembly passed the resolution that called for a Jewish state to be established in Eretz Israel on November 29, 1947." - Secularism in Israel - Wikipedia

Additionally, there is another problem, in that there are no 12 tribes (along with Levi) to be seen anywhere.

There is also the problem of the actual lineage of what many call "Jews" today:
- Ashkenazic (mostly converted Europeans of non-Hebrew descent) - Most Ashkenazi Jews are genetically Europeans, surprising study finds
- Sephardic (so-called Spanish Iberian, but are) - "... the descendants of Berber and Arab proselytes who converted to Judaism during the medieval period. ..." - The Non-Jewish Origins of the Sephardic Jews
- Mizrahic (Oriental, Easterner, though not all are) - Some say Babylonian, others say with a mix of Northern Africa (Morrocan, &c), Arabic, &c. Such as, "... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kurdish areas, the eastern Caucasus, India, Northern and Eastern Sudan and Ethiopia ..." - Mizrahi Jews
- Ethiopic (Amhara, & Tigray of Ethiopia, Africa) - "... who claim descent from Menilek I, the son of the Queen of Sheba (Makeda) and King Solomon according to Ethiopian tradition." - Beta Israel | History, Names, Movement, & Facts | Britannica which 'history' is nonsense, unconfirmed from scripture (OT), as the purpose of the Queen of Sheba's visit to Judaea / Jerusalem was not to have a child with Solomon, and there is no mention of such a union in scripture, but rather that she had come to learn of the Gospel, and went back home (without intimate relations with Solomon) taking the good news with her. (period).​

Their backgrounds, languages, rituals, and customs are all differing from one another, and at many times, act antagonistically with one another. They are not a united people in any sense of the word in secular matters, let alone religious ones. Many of the 'jews' are not Torah adherent, but are either Jerusalem (few) or Babylonian (majority) Talmudic Rabbinic, and quite a few of those are Kabbalistic (mystics) in their religious endeavors.

Additional problems are the matters of the land divisions within Jerusalem and surrounding countryside, as most of it belongs to the Vatican and other entities (so-called 'orthodoxy', Palestinians, Arabs, UN (world Heritage sites) &c.) as already demonstrated. There is no 'Temple', and most of the 'jews' there are not looking for one, as their ritualistic practices no longer have any need for it, see Kaparot ( https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/989585/jewish/Kaparot.htm ), and other Babylonian Talmudic Rabbinc practices / rituals, which no longer require any High Priest of the lineage of Aaron (or Levi), no longer require Temple services, no longer require the Ark of the Covenant (which is still hidden in Judaea since the time of Jeremiah), and are not even ruled by a 'Sanhedrin', High Pirest or Council of 70 elders:
Jer_3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.​

What I have said cannot be gainsayed, unless one refuses to acknowledge the facts presented in evidence, and at that point, why argue with a strong delusion of the Futurist Jesuit eschatology implanted into the minds of receptive persons who have already rejected these facts?

Francisco Ribera, SJ (1537-1591) - born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:

[1.] Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.​
[2.] Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.​
[3.] Abolish the Christian religion.​
[4.] Deny Jesus Christ.​
[5.] Be received by the Jews.​
[6.] Pretend to be God.​
[7.] Kill the two witnesses of God.​
[8.] Conquer the world.​

Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (S.J. – Jesuit), one of the best known Jesuit apologists, published a work between 1581 and 1593 entitled Disputationum Roberti Bellarmini De controversiis Christian fidei adversus hujus temporis haereticos, (Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time), in which he also denied the day = year principle in prophecy and pushed the reign of antichrist into a future period of 3 1/2 literal years. (See Froom, Prophetic Faith, Vol. 2, pgs. 495 - 502).

Then through:
  • Michael Walpole
  • Manuel De Lacunza, SJ (1731–1801)
  • Edward Irving (1792-1834)
  • Margaret McDonald (1830's)
  • Samuel Roffey Maitland (1792-1866)
  • John Nelson Darby (1800–1882)
  • Samuel Prideaux Tregelles (1813-1875)
  • Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921)
then from there into the
  • Dallas Theological Seminary (John Walvoord, Chuck Swindoll, Charles C. Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, J. Vernon McGee, Kenneth N. Taylor, Thomas Ice, Renald Showers),
  • Moody Bible Institute of Chicago (Jerry B. Jenkins),
  • Western Theological Seminary (Reformed Church in America; Tim LaHaye; Jerry Fallwell),
  • and others like Trinity Broadcasting, Jack Van Impe Ministries, Zola Levitt Ministries, John Ankerberg, Perry Stone, Chuck Missler, Dave Hunt, Eric Jon Phelps, etc. (See - The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism )
 
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Zao is life

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Covenant and testament are not synonymous.

Is it only you who will go as far as changing the meaning of words, or are you following others? Testament is another word for covenant. Both mean the same thing:

covenant
n 1: a signed written agreement between two or more parties (nations) to perform some action [syn: covenant, compact, concordat]
2: (Bible) an agreement between God and his people in which God makes certain promises and requires certain behavior from them in return

v 1: enter into a covenant
2: enter into a covenant or formal agreement; "They covenanted with Judas for 30 pieces of silver"; "The nations covenanted to fight terrorism around the world"

testament
n 1: a profession of belief; "he stated his political testament"
2: a legal document declaring a person's wishes regarding the disposal of their property when they die [syn: will, testament]
3: strong evidence for something; "his easy victory was a testament to his skill"
4: either of the two main parts of the Christian Bible

In the case of the Christian Bible, the word has always been used as a synonym for covenant: A legal document declaring a person's wishes regarding the disposal of their property when they die:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament [G1242 diatheke: from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):--covenant, testament.

that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Old Covenant Temple / Old Testament Temple was all about worship of God and the system of sacrifices surrounding that worship which is the shadow of Christ, the one whose blood is the blood of the new testament / covenant.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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There's the problem with what you're saying. His Blood wasn't a covenant. It was a testament. Covenant and testament are not synonymous.

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

BTW
Total nonsense. The new testament and new covenant are the same.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

The first covenant is the old covenant and the second covenant is the better new covenant or which Jesus is the mediator.

Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This passage indicates that Jesus took away the first (old) covenant in order "that he may establish the second, new covenant" which He did "through the offering" of His body "once for all". So, you saying His blood wasn't a covenant is absolutely false. His blood is what established the new covenant and made the old covenant obsolete.
 
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Randy Kluth

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I agree that the complete fulfillment will take place. Absolutely, but it's not yet. preparatory stages are not fulfillments, but rather moves toward fulfillment. That was my point.

BTW
Okay, I get what you mean. But I question your wording. To say a partial fulfillment is not a fulfillment seems wrong. It seems like there's an agenda to delegitimize Zionism as an illegitimate preliminary movement towards Israel's full restoration.

It's true that a partial fulfillment is not the total fulfillment. And it's true that Zionism may have issues that are compromised.

However, any suggestion that Zionism does not qualify as part of Israel's fulfillment seems designed to cave to antisemitic elements that are rife everywhere in Western societies now. I want no part in it.
 

Jay Ross

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For those who read prophecy, 1948 is when the Gen 15:16 prophecy was fulfilled 4,00 years exactly after Isaac was born.

Genesis 15:16 has nothing to do with when Isarel will be all saved.

Shalom
 
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BeforeThereWas

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LOL, false. They are the same things exactly.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

G1242
d?a??´??
diathe¯ke¯
dee-ath-ay'-kay
From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

Same exact word and meaning. A Testament is exactly the same as a Covenant.

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


1. Heb 9:15 Jesus "is the mediator of the new testament"
2. Heb 12:24 "Jesus the mediator of the new covenant"

The problem with your presentation is that you're failing to differentiate between the establishment of the New Covenant at the Second Coming of Christ and the moment of the passing of the cup.

Christ IS the mediator of the New Covenant, but that Covenant is not yet active. Your transplanting and word-gaming will not change the facts.

BTW
 

BeforeThereWas

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Okay, I get what you mean. But I question your wording. To say a partial fulfillment is not a fulfillment seems wrong. It seems like there's an agenda to delegitimize Zionism as an illegitimate preliminary movement towards Israel's full restoration.

It's true that a partial fulfillment is not the total fulfillment. And it's true that Zionism may have issues that are compromised.

However, any suggestion that Zionism does not qualify as part of Israel's fulfillment seems designed to cave to antisemitic elements that are rife everywhere in Western societies now. I want no part in it.

Yes. I was simply upholding the fact that words mean things, contrary to this modern, Western culture of word salads that project subjective meaning.

Modern Israel is not a nation whose battles are fought by God with attacks occurring daily with the death of so many Jews. When Christ comes at His Second Coming, He will destroy Israel's enemies after 2/3rds of all Israelis will be murdered. Israel is still living in unbelief and rejection, and therefore not under the total protection and defensive power of God.

It's funny that some out there claim anti-Semitism against those of us who deny 1948 as the fulfillment...and here I am, an Israeli. Tis laughable.

Thanks

BTW
 
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BeforeThereWas

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All orchestrated from the Vatican, with a hidden agenda, and a public agenda. Even all the way back to the Holy Roman Empire.

People such as:

'Pope' Pius XII (aka, "Eugenio Maria Giuseppe Giovanni Pacelli"; 2 March 1876 – 9 October 1958) was head of the Catholic Church and sovereign of Vatican City from 2 March 1939 until his death on 9 October 1958) - Pope Pius XII - Wikipedia

Chaim Weizmann, president of the Zionist Organization, and first President of Israel - Chaim Weizmann - Wikipedia

1917 - Chaim Weizmann lobbied the British government (specifically pro-Zionist Lord Cecil, the nephew of Arthur James Balfour; and David Lloyd George) to confirm its future physical control over Palestine. - Chaim Weizmann Lobbies Lord Cecil for Britain to Control Palestine After World War I, 1917 | CIE

"... Weizmann in 1917 and Zionist leaders such as Eliahu Elath, Aubrey (Abba) Eban and David Horowitz in 1947 and 1948 strove to keep Zionist decision-making in Zionist hands, under the auspices of a single power, and where possible influence the borders of a future Jewish state. ..." - Chaim Weizmann Lobbies Lord Cecil for Britain to Control Palestine After World War I, 1917 | CIE
"... In 1943, Chaim Weizmann, who would become Israel’s first president, wrote that “the Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to mitigate the fate of my persecuted co-religionists.” Moshe Sharett, who would become Israel’s first Foreign Minister and second Prime Minister, reinforced these feelings of gratitude when he met with Pius in the closing days of World War II: “I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him, and through him the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews…We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church.” In 1945, Rabbi Isaac Herzog, the Chief Rabbi of Israel, sent a message to Msgr. Angelo Roncalli (the future Pope John XXIII), expressing his gratitude for the actions taken by Pope Pius XII on behalf of the Jewish people. “The people of Israel,” wrote Rabbi Herzog, “will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world.” In September 1945, Dr. Leon Kubowitzky, the Secretary General of the World Jewish Congress, personally thanked the Pope in Rome for his interventions on behalf of Jews, and the World Jewish Congress donated $20,000 to Vatican charities “in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist and Nazi persecutions.” ..." - A Righteous Gentile: Pope Pius XII and the Jews - Catholic League

Charles Dreyfus; "... At [Charles] Dreyfus' suggestion Balfour and the Zionist leader Chaim Wiemann first met at a constituency meeting on 27 January 1905. ..." - Charles Dreyfus - Wikipedia

Joseph Massel (aka "Yoysef Yechezkel Mazl", of Wjasin, near Vilna, Russia), a part of the Manchester Zionist community, was the one to introduce Charles Dreyfus to Chaim Weizmann. - Joseph Massel - Wikipedia

Britain's - Balfour Declaration (1917), President (US) Woodrow Wilson endorsed it, along with the Leage of Nations.

Lionel Walter Rothschild, had studied at Magdalene College, Cambridge, a "Benedictine" Catholic University.
- Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild - Wikipedia
- https://www.rothschildarchive.org/f...walter_rothschild_and_the_balfour_declaration

"November 2nd, 1917​
Dear Lord Rothschild [Lionel Walter Rothschild],​
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.​
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."​
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.​
Yours sincerely,​

Rothschilds (Red Shields, for Rome); “... the Roths-childs that at the present time the latter are the guardians of the papal treasure.” - ROTHSCHILD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The name Rothschild, "... whose name is derived from the German zum rothen Schild (with the old spelling "th"), meaning "with the red shield" ..." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild - Wikipedia

The [Papal] "Court Jew" - [Papal] Court Jews go back to the Habsburg of the Holy Roman Empire - House of Habsburg - Wikipedia

Simon Wolf Oppenheimer, was a [Papal] Court Jew, who later trained Mayer Amschel Rothschild - Simon Wolf Oppenheimer - Wikipedia

...

Thanks for the bibliography. Many people in these forums, when copying and pasting from other sources, don't provide their sourcing.

BTW
 

Nancy

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It's interesting that Peter referred to modern Jerusalem (in his day) as "Babylon" when saluting Jews in outlying areas in one of his epistles. It's also interesting that the Lord, when He comes in His Second Coming, the mountain will split in half, which intimates a total change in the landscape in a cataclysmic event in preparation for the setting up of His earthly Kingdom.

BTW
Agreed. God often referred to Babylon being a prostitute, a harlot. The only religion ever referred to like that was Judaism. No other that I can find so...I no longer believe as I once did that, the CC was Babylon, then the U.S. We Gentile nations were never invited to the law so, in a sense we were never "married" to God The Father...interesting also, to note that the Jews would gladly follow the AC as their long awaited Messiah as he will no doubt be of the Jewish Talmudic teachers...IMHO.
 
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Nancy

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Yes. I was simply upholding the fact that words mean things, contrary to this modern, Western culture of word salads that project subjective meaning.

Modern Israel is not a nation whose battles are fought by God with attacks occurring daily with the death of so many Jews. When Christ comes at His Second Coming, He will destroy Israel's enemies after 2/3rds of all Israelis will be murdered. Israel is still living in unbelief and rejection, and therefore not under the total protection and defensive power of God.

It's funny that some out there claim anti-Semitism against those of us who deny 1948 as the fulfillment...and here I am, an Israeli. Tis laughable.

Thanks

BTW
Yes, and modern Israel are SECULAR...for now anyhow.
 
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Jay Ross

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@BeforeThereWas

You may laugh at what I have posted above that some of Abraham's descendants return to the land of Canaan in their own strength in 1948 to fulfill the Genesis 15:16 one verse prophecy.

However, your "HaHa" Smilie at the end of my Post #70 above was you laughing at God's word contained in this one verse prophecy.

If you are having a problem with God's prophetic words, do not make fun of the messenger who may reference a particular prophecy, you should take your laughter directly up with God and see what His response might be.

Goodbye BeforeThereWas
 

Ronald Nolette

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Well, I can see that we're simply not going to agree, even though I quoted to you the English definition of fulfillment, which is "completion."

As to the rapture and the events surrounding that, the only one of which we know that will trigger that event is the "fullness of the Gentiles be come in." All the other stuff leading up to that point, those to are not the completed fulfillments of any prophecy. That's the point I was making in relation to the English definition of "fulfillment." If I take out a loan, even though I'm making payments, it is not a fulfilled agreement until the last payment is made and it is completed.

BTW
Well the language scripture was written in is important. and some [prophecies begin and take time to complete, so saying a prophecy is being fulfilled is an accurate ter,.

Israel becoming a nation is in fulfilment of Ezekiel 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

This has been happening since 1948.
 

ewq1938

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The problem with your presentation is that you're failing to differentiate between the establishment of the New Covenant at the Second Coming of Christ and the moment of the passing of the cup.

Christ IS the mediator of the New Covenant, but that Covenant is not yet active. Your transplanting and word-gaming will not change the facts.

BTW

The facts are you misunderstood the intent of my post and therefore your criticisms are meaningless.
 

Nancy

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@BeforeThereWas

You may laugh at what I have posted above that some of Abraham's descendants return to the land of Canaan in their own strength in 1948 to fulfill the Genesis 15:16 one verse prophecy.

However, your "HaHa" Smilie at the end of my Post #70 above was you laughing at God's word contained in this one verse prophecy.

If you are having a problem with God's prophetic words, do not make fun of the messenger who may reference a particular prophecy, you should take your laughter directly up with God and see what His response might be.

Goodbye BeforeThereWas
How do you compute a generation Jay?
 

Zao is life

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The problem with your presentation is that you're failing to differentiate between the establishment of the New Covenant at the Second Coming of Christ and the moment of the passing of the cup.

Christ IS the mediator of the New Covenant, but that Covenant is not yet active. Your transplanting and word-gaming will not change the facts.

BTW

That covenant became active the moment Christ died on the cross and the veil between what was the holy place and the holy of holies in the temple that represented the first covenant, was torn in two. The entire New Testament / Covenant - all 27 books - are based on that fact, and it would be wrong to say that the gospel itself is based on that fact - because the fact is the new covenant / testament which came into effect once for all when Christ shed His blood and died, IS the gospel.

Your words betray the fact that you do not believe either the gospel or the 27 New Testament / Covenant books - hence you have no part in the new covenant now, and because you are waiting for a new covenant "to come into effect" the way the Jews are "waiting for Messiah to come" means that you probably never will have part in it. Your doctrine is false and you need - for your sake - to repent.
 
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